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Committing to using the “middle of green” distance


me05501
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I think I’m ready to commit to ignoring the flagstick and the front edge/back edge numbers on my GPS watch and just planning the distance of my approach shots using the “middle of the green” number. 
 

I know this is a relatively common course management strategy, but it’s not one I’ve really tried. Like most people I’ve always wanted as much information as I could get before hitting into the green, and I’ve routinely chosen the club I thought would leave me closest to the flagstick vs. in the center of the green. 
 

After playing 36 holes yesterday and leaving myself short-sided more times than I can count, it’s obvious that there’s a simple and sane way to avoid that almost all the time. I have good distance control with my irons and wedges, but there’s just not enough margin for error when I go pin hunting. 
 

I’m a pretty solid putter but my game is more about making two-putt pars than a lot of birdies. I think I will have more two-putt pars by increasing the margin for error, reducing the number of greenside recovery shots and taking pressure off that part of my game. 
 

If you’ve been using this approach for a while I’d enjoy hearing about your results. 

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7 minutes ago, me05501 said:

I think I’m ready to commit to ignoring the flagstick and the front edge/back edge numbers on my GPS watch and just planning the distance of my approach shots using the “middle of the green” number. 
 

I know this is a relatively common course management strategy, but it’s not one I’ve really tried. Like most people I’ve always wanted as much information as I could get before hitting into the green, and I’ve routinely chosen the club I thought would leave me closest to the flagstick vs. in the center of the green. 
 

After playing 36 holes yesterday and leaving myself short-sided more times than I can count, it’s obvious that there’s a simple and sane way to avoid that almost all the time. I have good distance control with my irons and wedges, but there’s just not enough margin for error when I go pin hunting. 
 

I’m a pretty solid putter but my game is more about making two-putt pars than a lot of birdies. I think I will have more two-putt pars by increasing the margin for error, reducing the number of greenside recovery shots and taking pressure off that part of my game. 
 

If you’ve been using this approach for a while I’d enjoy hearing about your results. 

 

Easy hack here is leave your range finder in your vehicle. Use sprinkler heads and yardage markers, walk off the rest,

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7 minutes ago, GoTime said:

 

Easy hack here is leave your range finder in your vehicle. Use sprinkler heads and yardage markers, walk off the rest,


Thanks. I don’t use a laser, just a simple GPS watch that gives me front/middle/back. 
 

I’ve noticed that a lot of courses aren’t bothering to mark sprinkler heads any more. 
 

My goal is to ignore the front and back figures and the flag. I just want to use the middle distance and club from that. 

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Works better, for me, on bigger greens. Small greens, the middle of the green distance doesnt give you the margins you want.My home course I play more off front and back numbers

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8 minutes ago, TheDominator273 said:

Better thought, take something that a mishit will cover the front edge and pure won't go over the back and ignore the center number completely.


That would seem to be difficult. Depending on the distance and the size of the green, there may not be a club in my bag that fits that description. 

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1.  Use GPS or yardage markers on sprinklers. 
2.  If flag is close to middle play to middle yardage. 
3. If close to front play to front yardage plus 10 yards. 
4. If back pin play to  back yardage minus 10 yards. 
 

if between clubs your yardage is probably perfect. If not you have a 5 yard margin of error 

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We miss short more than we miss long.  A good general guideline to maximizes GIR: for front pins, play the club that goes to the middle if flushed, for middle and back pins, play the club that gets to the back if flushed. 

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You might be interested in Scott Fawcett's Decade system.  He deals a lot with choosing the correct target by working out your average deviation from whatever distance you have.  There is a very good app and you can get a 'lite' version.  I've been getting into it over the last couple of months and its helping.  There's a lot more to the Decade system that that, but the target choosing piece is a key facet. 

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3 hours ago, jumboross said:

You might be interested in Scott Fawcett's Decade system.  He deals a lot with choosing the correct target by working out your average deviation from whatever distance you have.  There is a very good app and you can get a 'lite' version.  I've been getting into it over the last couple of months and its helping.  There's a lot more to the Decade system that that, but the target choosing piece is a key facet. 

Second this. Download the app and just listen to some of the key principles to start. Based on skill level and ability we all have patterns that we hit the ball in and that would help determine where to aim. At the end of the day it comes down to where you are going to hit the bulk of your shots and even as a low handicapper, we tend to hit a fairly wide pattern of shots. So sometimes the "best" place to aim might be middle of the green, sometimes the edge etc. depending on where hazards / bunkers / hard up and downs are etc. He also covers this nicely for off the tee shot selection.

 

I was playing terribly this winter and making more and more mental errors, picked up some common sense from decade and my scores have improved >10 shots a round from less mental and execution errors! 

 

Good luck!

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5 hours ago, DaveGoodrich said:

We miss short more than we miss long.  A good general guideline to maximizes GIR: for front pins, play the club that goes to the middle if flushed, for middle and back pins, play the club that gets to the back if flushed. 

 

I like that. 

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9 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

1.  Use GPS or yardage markers on sprinklers. 
2.  If flag is close to middle play to middle yardage. 
3. If close to front play to front yardage plus 10 yards. 
4. If back pin play to  back yardage minus 10 yards. 
 

if between clubs your yardage is probably perfect. If not you have a 5 yard margin of error 

 

This is similar to the approach I've been using, except I've been adding/subtracting 5 yards and that's not enough margin for error after considering roll-out.

 

The courses we played Saturday had thick chewy rough right outside the fringe of every green. I had several shots I thought were perfectly judged that rolled through and stopped just a yard or so into that rough, which was such an avoidable mistake. Some of those I got up and down in two strokes but a few got away from me. If the same approach shots had rolled out to the fringe I know I could have two-putted all of them and made made the odd birdie. 

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I think the fact you are thinking about this is good, but I would argue you're doing yourself a disservice by aiming for the middle of the green every time. I think you can still be conservative while giving yourself more good looks by devising some for a simple system. This "system" would have to be based on your game and your misses, but I generally ask myself a few questions before deciding on any approach:

 

1) Where is the pin? 

2) Where is the trouble?

3) What is my miss today and with this club?

4) What is the wind / are there any other conditions that could impact this shot?

5) Anything else? 

 

With the above, I can then pick my spot. Made up example:

 

1) Where is the pin? Front left

2) Where is the trouble? Front left is trouble. Right is ok. Long isn't great, but much better than short 

3) What is my miss today and with this club? Hitting a draw that can overdraw 

4) What is the wind / are there any other conditions that could impact this shot? Not enough to worry about  

5) Anything else? No

 

With all this, I can make an educated choice of where to aim depending on how I'm striking it that day. I'd probably take a number a little past the middle of the green, aim towards to the right 1/3 of the green and let it rip. If I overdraw, I'll be safe / might end up close. If I hit it a bit short I'm still not in trouble short. If I somehow hit it long (less likely), I'm not in any real trouble. I could have just aimed for the center of the green and it would probably be ok in this situation, but with my miss and the trouble, it could result in a worse outcome. 

 

Realize the above is more complicated, but thinking through this is how you truly avoid trouble while also giving yourself chances when the above questions all flash "green light."

 

DECADE and others may be easier / better, but just giving you some thoughts on how you can approach things to limit your risk while also allowing for more upside.  

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I normally club to the middle of the green and then possibly adjust for any trouble (front or back). My ball flight tends to be low so I often will be bouncing the ball into the green. Using the middle of the green seems to give me better results.

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I just don't know that the goal for every approach shot is "on the green".  That sounds insane of course - but I think the goal for every approach shot is to give myself the best opportunity for birdie or par depending on the club and yardage.  That goal does often coincide with being on the green obviously - but it technically doesn't always!

 

Like at some point the percentages shift.  If you put concentric circles around the hole you're playing with how often you make par (or get down in two) from that distance...at some point you'd have a better chance of making par from OFF the green in the fringe/fairway than you would from being on the green itself right?

 

I guess I just think you shouldn't always do one thing and/or never do another thing.  

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20 hours ago, me05501 said:

I think I’m ready to commit to ignoring the flagstick and the front edge/back edge numbers on my GPS watch and just planning the distance of my approach shots using the “middle of the green” number. 

 

I started doing this last year, after hearing an idiom from Nick Faldo on a broadcast last year: "Hit to the middle, putt to the corners."

 

I, like you, had been dividing the green into 1/9's, front/middle/back, right/center/left.  When I was playing well, it worked to play well.  If not, like you mentioned, too often left me short-sided and difficult up-and-downs.  Faldo's line just seemed to resonate with me, and I started saying it while playing, and (mostly) following that.  It seems to work, and while I can't attribute just this to my play lately, I have lowered my personal best score 3 times; my prior best was 75, now have had 72, 70, and a 66 (rimmed a 15ft on 18 that would have shot my age!).

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55 minutes ago, mharr said:

 

I started doing this last year, after hearing an idiom from Nick Faldo on a broadcast last year: "Hit to the middle, putt to the corners."

 

I, like you, had been dividing the green into 1/9's, front/middle/back, right/center/left.  When I was playing well, it worked to play well.  If not, like you mentioned, too often left me short-sided and difficult up-and-downs.  Faldo's line just seemed to resonate with me, and I started saying it while playing, and (mostly) following that.  It seems to work, and while I can't attribute just this to my play lately, I have lowered my personal best score 3 times; my prior best was 75, now have had 72, 70, and a 66 (rimmed a 15ft on 18 that would have shot my age!).


Great to hear. My PB is 77 and I feel like I have better scores in me. I frequently go 6-7 holes in a row at even par lately and I’m starting to learn how to keep that rhythm and demeanor going. Just trying to get more of the over-par holes off my card!

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23 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

This is similar to the approach I've been using, except I've been adding/subtracting 5 yards and that's not enough margin for error after considering roll-out.

 

The courses we played Saturday had thick chewy rough right outside the fringe of every green. I had several shots I thought were perfectly judged that rolled through and stopped just a yard or so into that rough, which was such an avoidable mistake. Some of those I got up and down in two strokes but a few got away from me. If the same approach shots had rolled out to the fringe I know I could have two-putted all of them and made made the odd birdie. 

It’s amazing how many times you will see someone leave it short of the green to a front pin, when knocking it a few paces long is a much easier putt for most people than a tricky short sided pitch. 

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On 9/6/2021 at 2:04 AM, DaveGoodrich said:

We miss short more than we miss long.  A good general guideline to maximizes GIR: for front pins, play the club that goes to the middle if flushed, for middle and back pins, play the club that gets to the back if flushed. 

I took this advice and shot my best round of 76. Went over the green twice. Thank you. 

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On 9/5/2021 at 9:16 PM, SNIPERBBB said:

Works better, for me, on bigger greens. Small greens, the middle of the green distance doesnt give you the margins you want.My home course I play more off front and back numbers

 

Same here. At my home course, we have small, firm greens with significant back to front slopes. Middle of the green to a front pin can be a really nasty putt. 

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2 hours ago, bazinky said:

 

Same here. At my home course, we have small, firm greens with significant back to front slopes. Middle of the green to a front pin can be a really nasty putt. 

 

Yeah I think you have to take the specific course conditions into account. The courses I played on Saturday had thick rough around the greens just beyond the fringe, plus bunkers all over the place. If you can putt onto the green pretty reliably the strategy should be adjusted to account for that. 

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It was mention above, green size determines.  I would add green speed is also a factor that determines middle or front and back yardage.  I play more known and unknown difficult courses so mostly let course management determine shot plan. 

 

If the green is large, pin away from the middle, I might go flag hunting, depends on the situation.  If the green is on the small side and irregularly shaped, I go to the middle, knowing if I leak a bit either way my ball worse case, is still within 2-putt range. 

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You asked about people that have tried playing this way, and I can say that this general approach has been working for me.

 

Just got back into playing after 4+ years off for multiple shoulder surgeries, and I decided to try to make things as simple and relaxed as possible.  I start with the center number, then just figure out a few things:

  • Where's the worst miss?
  • Where's the safest miss?
  • Is the "middle" number between clubs for me?

From that, my target is always somewhere around the middle third of the green, and with the thought of avoiding the worst trouble.  My last round, shot 39 on the front with 3 3-putts and 42 on the back (stamina's not back yet, and 90-95 degrees with high humidity just sucks the energy out of me just past the middle of the round). For reference, before my surgeries, my scoring was pretty consistently in the 80-85 range, with a (very) small handful of scores in the 70's.  A really bad round would push me up around 92.

 

But I'm really happy with how I've been playing using this approach, and my only big numbers have been when I hit a real clunker of a shot -- don't really have any time to practice, so I just accept that there will be a few really bad shots throughout the round.  Doesn't matter what target you picked if you hit one really fat and it ends up 35 yds short and 10 yds right of where you were aiming.

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On 9/6/2021 at 11:52 AM, dvq9654 said:

I think the fact you are thinking about this is good, but I would argue you're doing yourself a disservice by aiming for the middle of the green every time... This "system" would have to be based on your game and your misses, but I generally ask myself a few questions before deciding on any approach:

 

1) Where is the pin? 

2) Where is the trouble?

3) What is my miss today and with this club?

4) What is the wind / are there any other conditions that could impact this shot?

5) Anything else? 

 

Middle of the green may work for about half the approaches in a round, but on the rest of them you have to think. And you have to go with what feels good on that shot. Overdoing the number crunching leads to paralysis by analysis.

 

Examples where "middle" doesn't work:

  • Extremely large greens, especially long ones. Hit the middle of the green, and you're facing a 50-foot putt.
  • Multi-node greens. The fifth hole on my home course has a green with basically four nodes - two left half and two right half. Put a shot into true middle, there's no telling where the ball may come to rest.
  • Terraced greens, first cousin of above. Need to work one end of green or the other, middle can leave you in neighborhood, but 50 feet from cup.
  • Approaches with tail wind. Saw the final round of the inaugural Ascension Charity Classic, a Champions Tour event at Norwood Hills CC in St. Louis. David Toms won a playoff over Dickie Pride when the two tied at -10 in regulation.
    • The 465-yard 18th hole has an oval shaped green with a slight false front.  Pin was maybe a third of the way back. The wind went a lighter shifting breeze to a 15-MPH tail wind for the final few groups.
    • Near end, players going for middle had mixed success, as some balls released long into deep bunkers. Most of late birdies came from players who dropped the ball short, and bounced it up the false front to near the cup.

Sometimes you just have to step up to the ball and play golf!

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We don't have GPS and my home course only has some yardage markers, no "daily pin placement" advice and a few greens are elevated so you can't see where the pins are. However, I only play this course(the only one in my area) so I have come to be ok at estimating the distances. I generally try to plan for a miss that is the farthest away from the very common drop-offs. I rarely underclub as I don't swing hard with my 5-W. 

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      In a post below, answer the following questions.
       
      1. City, State?
      2. Handicap?
      3. What is your current putter?
      4. Have you ever used a L.A.B. Golf putter?
      5. Why do you want to review the MEAZZ.1 putter?
      6. Do you agree to participate in an ongoing testing thread, posting reviews and photos?
       
      That's it! @labgolf and GolfWRX will choose the testers in about 2 weeks! This testing event is for good-standing members in the USA only!
       
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      • 435 replies
    • 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #1
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #2
       
       
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      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
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      Keegan Bradley - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
       
       
       
      Gary Woodland's new Cameron putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
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      • 6 replies

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