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Monte’s new Broom Force


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26 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Even after reading thread a little undecided whether to buy video to use the drills (though have bought one of those traditional brooms in anticipation)

Could someone list the top 5 (or more if want to) reasons why I should try them.,*

 

(Note already incorporate a lot of AMG stuff + use the Rose drill )

 

*Simple fear of new drills dragging me down a sideways rabbit hole!

 

Your arm swing is out of sync with your pivot? Buy Broomforce. 

 

You want to learn to get the most from the speed you generate? Buy Broomforce.

 

You're a geek for new drills that easily convey the feels you need in a tour level golf swing? You get me now...

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30 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Nobody, except maybe Moe, ever did that better. 

I agree. I talked to a guy who hooked up with on the driving range. He pulled a wad of cash out of his pocket and said I bet you I can hit one of the zeros on the 200 yd. sign. He did, then the people were too slow in front of them and he took out his driver off the deck in the fairway and hit the flag stick. True story but hard to believe.

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15 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Your arm swing is out of sync with your pivot? Buy Broomforce. 

 

You want to learn to get the most from the speed you generate? Buy Broomforce.

 

You're a geek for new drills that easily convey the feels you need in a tour level golf swing? You get me now...

That is only 3!!!! Not good enough! Ha ha

 

 

The speed one does apply the others especially the last not much. If I overtly try to increase my speed (or feeling that I am increasing it) do tend to get out of sync or that is what I assume.

And I would say SS (lack there of) is an issue for me.

Edited by Nickc
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45 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Even after reading thread a little undecided whether to buy video to use the drills (though have bought one of those traditional brooms in anticipation)

Could someone list the top 5 (or more if want to) reasons why I should try them.,*

 

(Note already incorporate a lot of AMG stuff + use the Rose drill )

 

*Simple fear of new drills dragging me down a sideways rabbit hole!

 

 

These are all coming from the same place, seems like. 

Paradym TD 10.5/Tensei Blue 65R

TM BRNR Mini 13.5

Callaway Rogue Max D 3 wood

Paradym 4 hybrid

Srixon ZX5 / ZX7 on MMT 125S

Srixon Z785 AW

Cleveland RTX6 54/58

Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft 11S

 

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1 hour ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

That's what I said 

 

Yes, but you also said you haven't bought or watched the videos that we're discussing. 

Paradym TD 10.5/Tensei Blue 65R

TM BRNR Mini 13.5

Callaway Rogue Max D 3 wood

Paradym 4 hybrid

Srixon ZX5 / ZX7 on MMT 125S

Srixon Z785 AW

Cleveland RTX6 54/58

Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft 11S

 

Collings OM1-ESS

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36 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

I'm not sure how you can have an opinion, when you have not even watched the video lol. Monte is all about the arms and body syncing and working correctly, I would say the NTC is focused more on the arms and broom force is more focused on the body. But yes, same general idea, just two different areas of focus. Both equally important but depending on your tendencies, one may be more beneficial than the other. Watching both really cements the core of the pattern as a whole

 

I have no issues with the semantics or the hard facts. The beauty of Monte's teaching approach is that it is built 100% on hard facts and tangible data, but conveyed in an array of simple to understand ideas/feels such that it can be effective for a large distribution of students. If you make an effort to understand the core principles behind the teaching, it only supplements the material further. The point isn't to try to measure the length of a the flat spot, it's knowing that if your arms and body move correctly together, the long flat spot will be the end result.

 

Which is what I said. I mentioned I had seen the Instagram post not the video so if I have the wrong perception you could point out which parts of my post were incorrect. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Which is what I said. I mentioned I had seen the Instagram post not the video so if I have the wrong perception you could point out which parts of my post were incorrect. 

 

 

I am not going to debate ideas with someone who has not even watched the video. End of story

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8 minutes ago, Nickc said:

That is only 3!!!! Not good enough! Ha ha

 

 

The speed one does apply the others especially the last not much. If I overtly try to increase my speed (or feeling that I am increasing it) do tend to get out of sync or that is what I assume.

And I would say SS (lack there of) is an issue for me.

I got bored after three. 😆

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Just now, Krt22 said:

I am not going to debate ideas with someone who has not even watched the video. End of story

 

So nothing then, okay gotcha. As I said I'm getting it Thursday so in the meantime if I happen to post before then I'm happy for you not to reply. 

 

Which I'm wondering why you bothered in the first place.

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40 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Even after reading thread a little undecided whether to buy video to use the drills (though have bought one of those traditional brooms in anticipation)

Could someone list the top 5 (or more if want to) reasons why I should try them.,*

 

(Note already incorporate a lot of AMG stuff + use the Rose drill )

 

*Simple fear of new drills dragging me down a sideways rabbit hole!

 

Better understanding of golf swing. I've been playing 60 yrs. and have a lot of knowledge but not the understanding. Broom Force is his best yet and I have all of them. Club head speed is after the ball per Tiger. V swing versus U swing. Just watching 1 segment of hitting a plastic bottle would improve over 90 % of the novice golfers out there. Need to get the feeling of flat broom behind ball then push/sweep the dirt.

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3 hours ago, tm3 said:

Well if "the long flat spot concept is wrong" is false it certainly would not be the first time (or, I'm sure, the last) that a golf magazine (or a golf instructor, or a golf forum) has promulgated information that is incorrect.

 

Ferrell's analysis sounds interesting.  Where's the link?

https://www.golfsmartacademy.com/golf-instruction/exploring-como-flat-spot/

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
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3 hours ago, me05501 said:

These discussions veer into the weeds so easily! 

 

I've watched through all the videos a couple of times. What Monte really seems to be emphasizing is that too many players have a V-shaped swing when they'd benefit from more of a U-shaped swing.

 

He mentions a long flat spot too, but both that and the idea of a U-shape at the bottom of the swing seem to be at least partially conceptual, meant to give the student the feel or goal that helps them avoid anything similar to a V-shaped pattern at the bottom. 

 

I don't think anyone is advocating for having the club head close to the ground for a couple of feet versus a couple of inches, but a lot of us can benefit from the *concept* of having the club head feel closer to the bottom of the arc for longer. 

 

In one of his other series Monte does a whole segment on how most people should end up in the middle of any range of possibilities. Depth vs. width, body vs. arms, turning vs. shifting, closer to ball vs. further from it, etc etc etc. The extremes of any range of motion can be explored through drills and help us feel where we need to go, but trying to actually play from extreme positions is a dead end. 

 

 

I would not say it's just a concept, but instead a really exaggerated feels of getting the club all the way to the ground. These sorts of exaggerations are required to actually make a change once you start adding speed to the equation. The main point is to largely do the arm work up front, such that you can focus on how the body should react.  I think the more important part is understanding how the long flat spot is created. The notion that the handle is moving up during impact is not at all intuitive when we are told we need to hit down on the ball.

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13 minutes ago, scopek said:

I always like hearing from mature golfers...Are you doing Monte's approach? If so, how's it been on the body? 

Doing things more efficiently by improving sequencing is always easier on the body.

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All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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On 9/12/2021 at 3:34 PM, BTP said:

This is encouraging. I've been stuck at a 3-6ish handicap for nearly two decades. The fact you're a + putting in this work is incredible and gives me hope. What has been the biggest adjustment for you and/or how were you able to make such a drastic drop in handicap?

Honestly, the biggest help for me was a few things.  The first was getting it through my thick skull to not dwell on range results when working on something.  I was always guilty of giving up on something after that initial week or 2 week period of "I got it" and then it falls apart and i would abandon.  I finally decided to stick with it.  I don't care if I chunk every ball I hit on the range now...I stick with it.  Eventually it gets better every time.  Just can't expect results in a few months or less.  Like i said, it takes me like a year to really feel comfortable with something and even then I still drill it here and there.

 

The second was leaving whatever I'm working on...on the range.  Range is practice time.  Playing golf is scoring time.  Don't get me wrong...there will be days when I take what I'm working on at the range and focus on it at the course but that's purely practice.  When I'm trying to score I forget about it and just go play.  Maybe I work on getting the feel for the move when I'm warming up a bit but that's only early on in the process.  After a few months I don't.  Monte says it best (paraphrasing):  People focus on what their body is doing on the course and what the ball is doing on the range when it should actually be the opposite.

 

Third is finally having a good instructor like Monte to work with.   I only get the chance to see him at the annual clinic but it works.  Ideally i would stop by to CA once more in the year but time doesn't really allow it.  I picked up the game late (at 17) but got hooked.  Unfortunately the instructor I worked with when I was getting started was awful....Literally told me to drag the club back keeping the head on the ground until it got past my trail leg, then had me bump my hips way forward, keep my head back and down...wouldn't let me rotate or turn my head until well after impact......Consequently the issues I face now are a late wrist hinge in the backswing and an urge to slide forward while getting my shoulders very vertical.  In spite of the things Monte and I have worked on I always fight those issues from time to time.  The difference is that now I have the tools to work on them when it goes awry.  I still go back to some of my first lessons just to keep it fresh.

 

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Something I really liked from the videos is Monte's explanation on how to practice the drills. Do a drill with 3 balls and then  7-10 normal swings. Rinse and repeat. During the lesson videos he broke it down into sets of 3. Hit a ball with one drill; Hit a ball with another complimentary drill; hit the third with a full swing trying to replicate the feels. That alone was well worth it. Some of us can use some help with the better(best?) way to practice.

 

I'm looking forward to trying some of them on the range. The countertop drill piqued my interest for some reason, maybe it's my love for hitting a half shot, lol.

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53 minutes ago, bortass said:

 

I'm looking forward to trying some of them on the range. The countertop drill piqued my interest for some reason, maybe it's my love for hitting a half shot, lol.

Are you taking your broom to the range (and a table)?

My problem with new drills is that I no longer go to the range ..hate hitting off mats. My course does have shortish grass practice area (about 150 yds) + I live in central (ish) London but next to a common which I use for chipping with real balls or longer shots with "almost golf balls". Otherwise I just try new things out on the course at quiet times (fewer of these nowadays though).

So need to pick up new things quickly!

To add: from what I can gather the Broom force things are along the lines of what  I (at least try to ) do now so hopefully it will reinforce and improve this.

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2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Expect a broom thread in the equipment section. 😆

 

I find the KBS Broom Shaft to be really stiff in the midsection. 

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Mavrik 10.5 Project X Riptide 6.5 Small Batch

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Sim Hybrid 21 Ventus Blue 9X

3-5 P770  KBS C-taper 120

6-PW Blueprint KBS C-taper 125 ssx1

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2 hours ago, scopek said:

I always like hearing from mature golfers...Are you doing Monte's approach? If so, how's it been on the body? 

Been following him 6-7 yrs. I'm 72 today and have all the video's. All started with the ball on the stick swinging level to hit the ball. Then separate left shoulder from chin on DS. Even had a playing lesson at Spyglass, 4 over on 9th fairway and should be 8-9 over and he said do you want to change your swing or not? Said yes. Had huge hip slide in BS and not rotating into right leg. His tip helped but I just couldn't do it consistently. Got rid of hip slide and Broom Force swinging a sledge hammer is helping especially unloading vertical hinge. A million ways to swing a golf club but yes his approach is easier on the body. But as usual we overswing, hips too fast, arms left behind, early extend etc. Just hitting the plastic bottle and getting the broom flat behind the bottle with the vertical hinge would have been enough. Great understanding of the golf swing so much I carry a broom in my bag for laughs and conversation.

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Even for the younger folks in the thread, you'll golf for longer and hit it longer than your counterparts as you age, with less pain. I used to be sore and damaged all the time after a long range session (was also just beating balls at the time), and now almost never. 

Mavrik 10.5 Project X Riptide 6.5 Small Batch

Sim 17 Ventus Red 7X

Sim Hybrid 21 Ventus Blue 9X

3-5 P770  KBS C-taper 120

6-PW Blueprint KBS C-taper 125 ssx1

52,56,60 MG3 TW DG S400

GCQuad/SwingCatalyst/FLIR Blackfly/Fiberbuilt/Carl's Place DIY

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3 hours ago, ferrispgm said:

Honestly, the biggest help for me was a few things.  The first was getting it through my thick skull to not dwell on range results when working on something.  I was always guilty of giving up on something after that initial week or 2 week period of "I got it" and then it falls apart and i would abandon.  I finally decided to stick with it.  I don't care if I chunk every ball I hit on the range now...I stick with it.  Eventually it gets better every time.  Just can't expect results in a few months or less.  Like i said, it takes me like a year to really feel comfortable with something and even then I still drill it here and there.

 

The second was leaving whatever I'm working on...on the range.  Range is practice time.  Playing golf is scoring time.  Don't get me wrong...there will be days when I take what I'm working on at the range and focus on it at the course but that's purely practice.  When I'm trying to score I forget about it and just go play.  Maybe I work on getting the feel for the move when I'm warming up a bit but that's only early on in the process.  After a few months I don't.  Monte says it best (paraphrasing):  People focus on what their body is doing on the course and what the ball is doing on the range when it should actually be the opposite.

 

Third is finally having a good instructor like Monte to work with.   I only get the chance to see him at the annual clinic but it works.  Ideally i would stop by to CA once more in the year but time doesn't really allow it.  I picked up the game late (at 17) but got hooked.  Unfortunately the instructor I worked with when I was getting started was awful....Literally told me to drag the club back keeping the head on the ground until it got past my trail leg, then had me bump my hips way forward, keep my head back and down...wouldn't let me rotate or turn my head until well after impact......Consequently the issues I face now are a late wrist hinge in the backswing and an urge to slide forward while getting my shoulders very vertical.  In spite of the things Monte and I have worked on I always fight those issues from time to time.  The difference is that now I have the tools to work on them when it goes awry.  I still go back to some of my first lessons just to keep it fresh.

 

Good post.

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3 minutes ago, Precis1on said:

Even for the younger folks in the thread, you'll golf for longer and hit it longer than your counterparts as you age, with less pain. I used to be sore and damaged all the time after a long range session (was also just beating balls at the time), and now almost never. 

Wish Monte was around 60 yrs. ago. I've accumulated a lot of knowledge on the golf swing but couldn't apply the understanding to get where I wanted to go. Enjoy the game of a lifetime.

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12 minutes ago, kowalgolf said:

Wish Monte was around 60 yrs. ago. I've accumulated a lot of knowledge on the golf swing but couldn't apply the understanding to get where I wanted to go. Enjoy the game of a lifetime.

I wish I'd found him when I was healthy enough to play regularly. My swing was all timing, but now it's so much better and I might never hit a ball again.

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