ProV1 and mid handicappers???

[DublAK2]

I am a proud hacker who knows he is hardly good enough to play range balls. However I have several friends who shoot into the 80s regularly. They play ProV1s exclusively. In my opinion they aren't good enough to utilize the spin created by ProV1s, but what do I know, I stink.

 

Is it common that guys shooting 85 use tour balls? How good does one need to be to use a premium 3 piece + ball?

[jacob7071]

I wouldn't necessarily call an 80s shooter a mid-capper.  They're probably better than 90% of the golfers out there.

 

That said, nothing wrong with an 80s shooter playing a ProV1.  I think the distance you get from a tour quality ball these days is probably only marginally less than a non-urethane ball.  And the benefit from added spin around the greens more than offsets any loss of distance off the tee.  The only question becomes do you want to pay for the tour ball over the non-tour.  

[DublAK2]

I play with them. They still lose balls occasionally. They still have days over 90... Prov1's exclusively.

[puttingmatt]

Most players are looking for control around the greens, and  can benefit from a urethane ball. That said, golf ball choices are a very personal decision. Pro V 1 is a very solid choice.  

Edited September 7, 2021 by puttingmatt

[munichop]

Tour balls offer the player the widest range of shots since they are designed for the best players in the world.  As my club head speed decreased I turned more and more to surlyn covers to help me get the ball in the air.  For me the reduced short game options actually helped me because I new my ball had limited greenside spin.  I still play with a lot of less skilled guys who like the tour balls and there are ways to offset the cost if that is an issue.  I think a lot of guys want to play what the pros do which is their choice.  I don't mind beating them with my top flite HC and e12 contact which are my current starters. 

[Jeff58]

Titleist did an experiment with groups of single digit and bogey level players. They played a round with a “performance” ball (NXT), and a round with V1’s.

 

The more skilled players score improved ~1.5 strokes. The bogey golfers improved by almost 4. The reasons were that with the NXT the high cappers almost never were able to hold greens on approach, and were far more likely to have recovery shots from missing GIR’s where the V1’s stopping ability was at it’s most important.

[Pepperturbo]

4 hours ago, DublAK2 said:

Is it common that guys shooting 85 use tour balls? How good does one need to be to use a premium 3 piece + ball?

Not sure "common" is the correct word.  What I know is a few 14-18 handicap friends play ProV1's.  One buddy only plays them when he finds them, or I give him one.  My 85yr old FIL plays ProV1 too.  There is NO rule as to how good someone must be to play a premium ball or a given club.  Its personal choice and desire.

 

Plus, if a person can afford to pay for them and lose them and buy more, they can play what they like.  No different from someone that can't drive an expensive high performance car, damaging or crashing it and buying another.  It's NOT anyone's business to tell others what equipment they should play. 

[chippa13]

4 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

Titleist did an experiment with groups of single digit and bogey level players. They played a round with a “performance” ball (NXT), and a round with V1’s.

 

The more skilled players score improved ~1.5 strokes. The bogey golfers improved by almost 4. The reasons were that with the NXT the high cappers almost never were able to hold greens on approach, and were far more likely to have recovery shots from missing GIR’s where the V1’s stopping ability was at it’s most important.

Bogey level golfers can have that much fluctuation between 2 rounds regardless of ball choice. They could very easily have played 4 shots worse in the 2nd round with the ProV.

[BYK]

4 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

Titleist did an experiment with groups of single digit and bogey level players. They played a round with a “performance” ball (NXT), and a round with V1’s.

 

The more skilled players score improved ~1.5 strokes. The bogey golfers improved by almost 4. The reasons were that with the NXT the high cappers almost never were able to hold greens on approach, and were far more likely to have recovery shots from missing GIR’s where the V1’s stopping ability was at it’s most important.

That’s very interesting 

do you have a link to that?  I’d love to read more about that for sure. 

 

[absoludicrous]

Even when I was shooting in the 100’s, I can see a big difference with my approach shots and short game shots with a cheaper ball vs. a tour level ball. I don’t think handicap or typical score matter when deciding on whether to play a tour level ball.

 

I’ll make it easy to help decide if it’s worth it. Get to your 8i distance to the flag. Hit your 8i in with a cheaper ball and see where the divot is compared to where your ball finishes rolling out. Do the same with a tour ball. Do you see any difference as to where your ball ends up?

 

Hit a few short game shots like a pitch or chip shot with each ball. Do you see a difference between the two? 

 

If you don’t see a difference in both situations, play the cheaper ball. If you do see a difference, you need to decide if it’s worth the $$$. 

 

[A.Princey]

I hit the ball high and can do so around the green, as needed, so the lower spin of surlyn gives me more predictability and variety. I rarely need to flight a low chip that bites, so I’ll keep my Pinnacle Rush all day long.

[hagimihale]

I typically shoot in the mid-80s.  Have been playing ProVs for the last 10 years I think.   Initially switched because I preferred the feel on my iron shots, but stayed due to the consistency in holding greens on approach shots.  I get "hop and stop" on anything from 6-iron down to wedges.

 

For those of you who balk at paying the premium prices - so do I.  I surf the 'bay for "gently used" ProVs and typically pay between $0.75 to $1 per ball, buying in bulk of 2-3 dozen at a time.  Some of them are basically brand new, some have a bit of discoloration, and some have a few scratches.  I used the "scratched" balls for par-3 tee shots over water.  

[PhilsFanDrew]

10 hours ago, DublAK2 said:

I am a proud hacker who knows he is hardly good enough to play range balls. However I have several friends who shoot into the 80s regularly. They play ProV1s exclusively. In my opinion they aren't good enough to utilize the spin created by ProV1s, but what do I know, I stink.

 

Is it common that guys shooting 85 use tour balls? How good does one need to be to use a premium 3 piece + ball?

 

It depends.  I shoot in the 80s regularly and I would say that many 80s golfers possess the ability to execute the same shots that most single digit handicappers can.  The issue is we aren't consistently executing them at the rate of a lower index player.  The biggest advantage I find premium urethane balls can give nearly any golfer over surlyn balls is dispersion.  Now if you hack the ball all over the place and frequently duff shots then it won't matter.  But if you are someone that can hit 10 mid irons shots at about the same distance-ish (within 10 yards of each other) in the same general direction on most shots you will find a more consistent dispersion pattern over the cheaper surlyn ball.  I also personally find I putt better with urethane balls.  I feel like on mid range putts with surlyn they can really jump off the face and get away from me.  With urethane I just feel a lot more control with the ball and can stay aggressive with my stroke.   

[RSinSG]

I think everyone should play ProV1’s. Especially those who have a tendency to push and slice. 
 

BTW- I pick the range at my home course and the range is between the #1 and #9 holes. Lots of slicers play some nice balls.😁

[munichop]

Again, it is important to find a ball that promotes confidence when you get one chance to hit a shot.  There is no question the tour level balls give the player options that less expensive balls do not. Each player needs to find the ball that lets them play their best.  The marketing used in golf tries to convince everyone that they will play better with a tour ball. That hasn’t been the case for me in my 50’s but every player is different.

[rooski]

I think every player that takes the game seriously should play a urethane cover 3 or 4 piece golf ball. Just in the same way that somebody that takes bowling seriously should have a custom drilled urethane ball rather than grabbing a trash ball of the rack of the lanes.

 

However I think people being stuck on ProV1 or TP5s need to reevaluate why they're spending $50 a dozen other than tour marketing.. Just play a Vice or a Snell, they're excellent balls, exactly the same as any $50 a dozen ball for half the price

Edited September 8, 2021 by rooski

[bobfoster]

This is hard to say. First, as jacob7071 said, I'm not so sure 85 is a mid-capper. I forget the exact stats, but only something like 25% of golfers ever break 100. Shooting 85 consistently (and not just as a one-time fluke) means you must have pretty good control of the basics - be able to work the ball a bit, have a solid understanding of your distances, be able to generate at least some spin, etc., etc. 

 

While someone that goes out three or four times a year and is lucky to ever break 120 (and there are a lot of them) won't likely see any difference between a high priced tour ball and the cheapest range ball, someone that can shoot in the 80s probably can make use of the materials and characteristics of something like the ProV1.

 

But at the end of the day, the real question isn't "what does my handicap look like" ... but rather, "what does my bank account look like" ... 🤨

[philly2kuk]

I’m yet to meet anyone who asks what ball

I’m playing. If I’m having a great round I may be asked on driver/irons/putter, but nobody has ever asked what ball I play. Let’s face it, outside of WRX nobody cares what you play, so play what you enjoy.

[AcesAndHoles]

15 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

 

Plus, if a person can afford to pay for them and lose them and buy more, they can play what they like.  No different from someone that can't drive an expensive high performance car, damaging or crashing it and buying another.  It's NOT anyone's business to tell others what equipment they should play. 

 

This ^^. Yes, there's a certain level of skill and swing speed that come into play when matching the perfect ball but ultimately it comes down to price/performance management. If price isn't an option and you love the feel of ProV1s, play 'em. If knowing you're hitting a top quality ball works for you and gives you confidence, hit it. When I first would find the V1s and play them it would make me nervous since I didn't want to lose an expensive ball. I used to think that I "couldn't" benefit from playing a tour ball but ultimately the V1 is a pretty linear ball-- what you put in is what you get out with very few diminishing returns, and it does it consistently. Once I started finding more fairways and not hunting in the woods, ProV1s were a lot more accessible and I started to really enjoy the way they play.

[AcesAndHoles]

5 hours ago, philly2kuk said:

I’m yet to meet anyone who asks what ball

I’m playing. If I’m having a great round I may be asked on driver/irons/putter, but nobody has ever asked what ball I play. Let’s face it, outside of WRX nobody cares what you play, so play what you enjoy.

 

I've been asked and people where shocked to see I was playing a Kirkland 😆

[MattM97]

Honesty if they're not losing half a dozen a round then keep playing them. If they're comfortable with the ball and improving then playing the same ball will help. 

[nitram]

Play the best ball you can afford that fits your game.

 

A 30 handicap isn't going to much improvement, if any, by playing a premium tour ball. On the other hand, a scratch or better will see their respective game deteriorate by playing a Volvik Crystal (or whatever similar ball you choose) by about one full stroke.

[cristphoto]

To me the ball is simply another tool to use on the course.  A better tool can allow better precision.  To expand on the OP's post - why then would a mid-capper play a set of clubs costing more than $250? They're not worthy?  I doubt it. I also agree with a prior post that a mid-capper isn't a hack.  Someone shooting low 80's is still a single digit. I'm currently an 8 and low/mid 80's is where I live.  When hitting on all cylinders I dip into the 70's. At 72 that's cause for celebration.   

[vancouver81]

I generally play in the mid 80s and get through a round with 1 or 2 balls, worst case 3-4. Usually play Pro V1/X or ZStars. 
 

From say, 200 yards in (and particularly 100 yards in) I can’t imagine not playing a urethane ball. When I hit the green on my approach (about 7-9 times a round), I expect the ball to check and stick. When I miss the green and am chipping/pitching/hitting a bunker shot, I want a predictable amount of spin, and save for a bump and run generally not a lot of rollout.
 

We spend so much money on gear and so much time trying to improve, I think that anyone who can reasonably hope to break 90 needs to play a urethane ball for the best chance to score their best. New/used/titleist/zstars/tp5 etc etc. anything is likely better than a noodle!

[grm24]

22 hours ago, philly2kuk said:

Let’s face it, outside of WRX nobody cares what you play, so play what you enjoy.

To be honest there are many here at WRX that doesn't care one whit what anyone else here plays. Play what equipment you want and don't worry about what anyone else thinks of it.

[philly2kuk]

2 hours ago, grm24 said:

To be honest there are many here at WRX that doesn't care one whit what anyone else here plays. Play what equipment you want and don't worry about what anyone else thinks of it.

Completely agree, but I have several friends that play certain clubs because they think people will be impressed or won’t play certain clubs/balls for fear of embarrassment. If it works then who cares what it is. 
 

Hell, my old man won two big club comps with callaway warbirds a few years back. To this day I don’t know how he did it and people scoffed at him for using them but he had his best season ever that year. That soon shut them all up.

[Lobby]

On 9/7/2021 at 9:05 PM, absoludicrous said:

Even when I was shooting in the 100’s, I can see a big difference with my approach shots and short game shots with a cheaper ball vs. a tour level ball. I don’t think handicap or typical score matter when deciding on whether to play a tour level ball.

 

I’ll make it easy to help decide if it’s worth it. Get to your 8i distance to the flag. Hit your 8i in with a cheaper ball and see where the divot is compared to where your ball finishes rolling out. Do the same with a tour ball. Do you see any difference as to where your ball ends up?

 

Hit a few short game shots like a pitch or chip shot with each ball. Do you see a difference between the two? 

 

If you don’t see a difference in both situations, play the cheaper ball. If you do see a difference, you need to decide if it’s worth the $$$. 

 

 

Yeah, but notice the golf ball manufacturer STILL WINS because you had to buy all those balls to perform the experiment?

Damn.  It just seems the entire golf industry is based on asking us to experiment (buy) to determine the best.
 

[Jeff58]

On 9/7/2021 at 7:37 PM, chippa13 said:

Bogey level golfers can have that much fluctuation between 2 rounds regardless of ball choice. They could very easily have played 4 shots worse in the 2nd round with the ProV.

That’s certainly true for a single player.  IIRC these were groups of 8, which were chosen to be statistically valid.

 

My thinking has been that there are groups of people who benefit more from “stopping power”. Those are very good players, where the increased accuracy gives better distance to pin numbers, those who play on courses with elevated or heavily guarded greens (my situation), and inconsistent players using GI and SGI irons, who would otherwise not be able to hold greens at all.

[Bad9]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:08 PM, Jeff58 said:

Titleist did an experiment with groups of single digit and bogey level players. They played a round with a “performance” ball (NXT), and a round with V1’s.

 

The more skilled players score improved ~1.5 strokes. The bogey golfers improved by almost 4. The reasons were that with the NXT the high cappers almost never were able to hold greens on approach, and were far more likely to have recovery shots from missing GIR’s where the V1’s stopping ability was at it’s most important.

 

They should have tried it with a good "performance" ball rather than the NXT.

[chippa13]

I've always believed people should play the best ball that they don't care about losing.