Hitting either a hook or straight push

[connor_g9]

So recently I’ve been struggling hitting driver, woods, and long irons, and the general result is either a hook (usually a low one) or a regular push, but my club head path seems to be fairly square to the target. Any thoughts would be appreciated 

[Valtiel]

10 hours ago, connor_g9 said:

So recently I’ve been struggling hitting driver, woods, and long irons, and the general result is either a hook (usually a low one) or a regular push, but my club head path seems to be fairly square to the target. Any thoughts would be appreciated 

We'd need to see video (this is the video section after all!). A push by definition can not have a square face to the target because the ball starts where the face is pointed, it can't not. Typically the hook/push pattern is from an overly inside path and a high degree of clubface rotation. Timing it perfectly results on an ok shot, but more often than not you're a little too quick with the face and it shuts down and hooks, or you're a little late and it goes straight right. The club might be more square to the target with the hook though as the inside path would mean that square face is closed to the path, resulting in said hook. Correcting the path removes the need to manipulate the face as much and you gain consistency. Video would be needed to confirm that though. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Valtiel

[connor_g9]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

We'd need to see video (this is the video section after all!). A push by definition can not have a square face to the target because the ball starts where the face is pointed, it can't not. Typically the hook/push pattern is from an overly inside path and a high degree of clubface rotation. Timing it perfectly results on an ok shot, but more often than not you're a little to quick with the face and it shuts down and hooks, or you're a little late and it goes straight right. The club might be more square to the target with the hook though as the inside path would mean that square face is closed to the path, resulting in said hook. Correcting the path removes the need to manipulate the face as much and you gan consistency. Video would be needed to confirm that though. 

I’ll post the video later today, but thank you for the initial feedback! 

[connor_g9]

17 hours ago, connor_g9 said:

So recently I’ve been struggling hitting driver, woods, and long irons, and the general result is either a hook (usually a low one) or a regular push, but my club head path seems to be fairly square to the target. Any thoughts would be appreciated 

Here’s the video (this one happened to quite fat): 

[jholz]

Can't view the video, but I'd have to say I agree with @Valtiel. From your description, it sounds like a very familiar shot pattern and my fix was right along the lines of what he is saying. It's a very common issue and dude knows what he is talking about. 

 

 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, connor_g9 said:

Here’s the video (this one happened to quite fat): 

IMG_5471.MOV

I can't view the video either, seemingly due to a website issue that cropped up recently. I'm going to point people at this thread in hopes it gets enough attention that it gets fixed:
 

In the meantime if you can upload the video to a hosting platform of some sort you should be able to share the link here. Uploading to YouTube but leaving it unlisted and linking us seems to be the preferred method. 

[connor_g9]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

I can't view the video either, seemingly due to a website issue that cropped up recently. I'm going to point people at this thread in hopes it gets enough attention that it gets fixed:
 

In the meantime if you can upload the video to a hosting platform of some sort you should be able to share the link here. Uploading to YouTube but leaving it unlisted and linking us seems to be the preferred method. 

I uploaded it to YouTube, here’s the link: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtgXiF1U_Qk

[Valtiel]

28 minutes ago, connor_g9 said:

I uploaded it to YouTube, here’s the link: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtgXiF1U_Qk

Thanks for that. The angle isn't great in terms of doing any kind of a visual breakdown (too high up and to the left), but you are definitely WAY flat and from the inside for sure, so your miss makes sense. You also have have the classic strong grip compensation to give you more face shutting power to go with your inside path, hence the two way miss since you're still attempting to produce higher speeds. 

If you can take another video from a more neutral angle like Phil below then I can do a breakdown showing you call the positions you'll want to get away from and why they are causing problems. A neutral face on shot would be great as well so we can see how you're moving your weight. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Valtiel

[connor_g9]

55 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Thanks for that. The angle isn't great in terms of doing any kind of a visual breakdown (too high up and to the left), but you are definitely WAY flat and from the inside for sure, so your miss makes sense. You also have have the classic strong grip compensation to give you more face shutting power to go with your inside path, hence the two way miss since you're still attempting to produce higher speeds. 

If you can take another video from a more neutral angle like Phil below then I can do a breakdown showing you call the positions you'll want to get away from and why they are causing problems. A neutral face on shot would be great as well so we can see how you're moving your weight. 

So if you can tell, what would be the initial cause of my being flat? Just laying off too much at the top of my backswing, or is it generated in the takeaway/downswing? I’ll try and get another video tomorrow

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, connor_g9 said:

So if you can tell, what would be the initial cause of my being flat? Just laying off too much at the top of my backswing, or is it generated in the takeaway/downswing? I’ll try and get another video tomorrow

Everything starts from the setup and takeaway near as I can tell (the video starts shortly after takeaway). Your hands and arms go back and inside immediately in a way that gets you flat and stuck from the start. Many people would reroute over the top from here, but some stay in that position throughout which leads to a very flat and inside out swing. I'll be able to illustrate that with the follow up video 👍

[connor_g9]

9 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Everything starts from the setup and takeaway near as I can tell (the video starts shortly after takeaway). Your hands and arms go back and inside immediately in a way that gets you flat and stuck from the start. Many people would reroute over the top from here, but some stay in that position throughout which leads to a very flat and inside out swing. I'll be able to illustrate that with the follow up video 👍

Ok, I’ll send it as soon as I can. Thank you so much for the help you’ve given already!

[darkhelmet]

Super flat all the way through the swing.  Looks like you're trying to keep your right arm completely straight all the way through the swing, and the only way you can do that is to swing around your belly.

 

At the top of your backswing, if you can just get your hands to be almost over your left shoulder (just barely to the outside) and let your right arm flex slightly at the elbow, you should be fine:

 

 

[connor_g9]

2 hours ago, darkhelmet said:

Super flat all the way through the swing.  Looks like you're trying to keep your right arm completely straight all the way through the swing, and the only way you can do that is to swing around your belly.

 

At the top of your backswing, if you can just get your hands to be almost over your left shoulder (just barely to the outside) and let your right arm flex slightly at the elbow, you should be fine:

 

 

Now that I think about the mechanics, it makes sense. I’ve always been told “keep your right arm straight” and so I’ve just always done that. 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, connor_g9 said:

Now that I think about the mechanics, it makes sense. I’ve always been told “keep your right arm straight” and so I’ve just always done that. 

Keeping your right arm straight is fine, unless it causes you to simply drag it across your chest in such a flat position, then you're screwed. 

This was just being discussed in another thread here, and it always makes me happy how perfectly blunt Monte Scheinblum is when discussing this:
 

What Monte said here from 1:00 - 1:22 applies directly to what you're doing, which is getting too low and flat in an effort to "stay connected" by keeping your arm straight, which just gets you stuck.  

[darkhelmet]

3 hours ago, connor_g9 said:

Now that I think about the mechanics, it makes sense. I’ve always been told “keep your right arm straight” and so I’ve just always done that. 

 

I should probably amend that statement.  As Valtiel said above, you can keep the arm straight -- it just looked to me like that swing thought was driving your swing around your body.  After I posted that, I went down a rabbit hole looking up a bunch more swings, and the Adam Scott ones are pretty good examples of how it can look with a dead-straight leading arm.  You have the flexibility to do the same thing, it's probably just a matter of getting your hands to follow a different path on the way up.

 

 

[connor_g9]

4 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Keeping your right arm straight is fine, unless it causes you to simply drag it across your chest in such a flat position, then you're screwed. 

This was just being discussed in another thread here, and it always makes me happy how perfectly blunt Monte Scheinblum is when discussing this:
 

What Monte said here from 1:00 - 1:22 applies directly to what you're doing, which is getting too low and flat in an effort to "stay connected" by keeping your arm straight, which just gets you stuck.  

 

3 hours ago, darkhelmet said:

 

I should probably amend that statement.  As Valtiel said above, you can keep the arm straight -- it just looked to me like that swing thought was driving your swing around your body.  After I posted that, I went down a rabbit hole looking up a bunch more swings, and the Adam Scott ones are pretty good examples of how it can look with a dead-straight leading arm.  You have the flexibility to do the same thing, it's probably just a matter of getting your hands to follow a different path on the way up.

 

 

I couldn’t get another slow mo video today, however I tried what Darkhelmet said about keeping my right hand over my shoulder, and it seemed to do the trick as long as I rotated my arms fast enough. Thank you guys so much for the help!