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And I thought iron forgiveness is overrated


is200LS

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You really should hit a set of G710's. I am very pleased with them, and the 1/2" extra length really helps.  I also have the Power Spec version as well. The Pro saw I needed help with distance and hooked me up, they work well. 

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9 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

As far as scoring goes, I personally find iron forgiveness to be one of the most overrated equipment topics.  I switch between MBs, players CBs, game improvement irons and my scores are the same.  Comes down to driving it reasonably well and short game for my scoring.

I think there is a lot to this. I used to play 36-54 holes a weekend with a larger CB type of club. I had a 6-7 HC. 
 

Now I play about 1/2-1/4 amount of golf with a players CB as a 2-4 HC. I hit about the same amount of greens but have have a sharper short game. My misses tend to be short instead of big right or left misses. 

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1 hour ago, platgof said:

You really should hit a set of G710's. I am very pleased with them, and the 1/2" extra length really helps.  I also have the Power Spec version as well. The Pro saw I needed help with distance and hooked me up, they work well. 

 

Glad you like your 710s but they are Ping's SGI irons and have, as far as I'm concerned, no "feel" at all. They feel like hammers.

 

One of the few irons where I couldn't tell where on the face I hit each shot.

 

As for any "added distance", with irons,,,,,,,, puh-leeeeease,,,,,,,,,, 🙃

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I rented the g425s recently.  Did not get along with them.  They lack feedback, couldn't find the sweet spot, at least it never felt like it.  Did the fly a green by 20 yrds thing.  Despite all the tech to help with launch, I felt the flight was a little low.

 

These are the cavity backs that blade players complain about.  No feel, unworkable, poor distance control, unable to flight the ball.

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What are your regular clubs. Everything is relative. I've been playing Rocketbadez for 7 years an I can feel where my contact was and know without looking up where a shot is headed. They can move the ball left and right and I don't get these mystery fliers non-GI people complain about. 

 

I'll bet if you played those 425s a few rounds then you'd have a different report after the 5th round versus the 1 time out.

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13 hours ago, EddieEdwards said:

I rented the g425s recently.  Did not get along with them.  They lack feedback, couldn't find the sweet spot, at least it never felt like it.  Did the fly a green by 20 yrds thing.  Despite all the tech to help with launch, I felt the flight was a little low.

 

These are the cavity backs that blade players complain about.  No feel, unworkable, poor distance control, unable to flight the ball.

 

Link please.

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I don't have a link.  But every blade vs. Cavity back thread is full of those compaints.  I never felt any of them were valid until I played Callaway Rogues and g425s as rentals.

 

I play Maltby mmb's.  So the feel is not what I'm used to.  If the pings had heavier shafts it would have made a huge difference.  Lightweight shafts don't work for me. If I had distances dialed in, I don't think I would be flying greens either.  

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On 9/13/2021 at 5:58 PM, chisag said:

... After teaching golf I developed the theory everyone should play the most forgiving irons they can effectively play. That means different things to different players. I can't see someone in any other sport attempting to play equipment that does not enhance their ability to play well. You don't see anyone using a much smaller racket in tennis to hone their concentration. No hitter is using a 26" bat instead of a 36" bat. Clubs should produce the trajectory and distance you want or are able to hit. For some that is an MB and for others SGI's and of course GI and PI's in between. I play to a + index and play Cobra King Tour irons because they are accurate, consistent and plenty forgiving compared to may Srixon Z Forged I play every now and then for fun and to remind me I can always use a little more forgiveness. 

 

 

I realize I am late to this but this is a god-tier post.  I recently began battling my own thoughts with this and gave up on my MP20 HMBs after reminiscing about more forgiving clubs I played about ten years ago.  Grabbed some PXG 0211DC due to their recent sale and hopefully will have them to take to the range or even out for 9 before the snow flies.  I was always in your camp as well, but being in the industry I needed to keep up the "good player" image.  Recently I started thinking, who cares...play what works and here I am!

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On 9/29/2021 at 9:24 PM, brew4eagle said:

As far as scoring goes, I personally find iron forgiveness to be one of the most overrated equipment topics.  I switch between MBs, players CBs, game improvement irons and my scores are the same.  Comes down to driving it reasonably well and short game for my scoring.

100% same for me.

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10 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I tried to play set of i10's years ago and although the performance was excellent, they felt dead and it was difficult to feel where on the face I made contact. I used them for 2 rounds and sold them.

... This year I played with 2 Pro's from Desert Mountain in Phoenix at Aguila, a really nice muni. They didn't want to run into any members on their day off so they were "slumming" LOL. One pro playing Titleist 690MB's shot an 83 from the tips at 7007 and the other shot a 64 playing Ping G410's. To be fair to the 690 player, he got stoned and was drinking more than a few while his pard had one beer on the front and one on the back and passed on the weed but datum an 83? I asked the guy that ended up shooting the 64 if he was under contract to use the 410's and he shrugged saying No but he doesn't get to play as much as he would like and can use all the forgiveness he can get. After watching him hit accurate towering iron shots with uncanny distance control over and over again that always found the green I didn't bother asking him about feel. Probably the best ball striker I ever played with. 

 

Great story @chisag  This gets my nomination for post of the year!

 

 

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11 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I tried to play set of i10's years ago and although the performance was excellent, they felt dead and it was difficult to feel where on the face I made contact. I used them for 2 rounds and sold them.

... This year I played with 2 Pro's from Desert Mountain in Phoenix at Aguila, a really nice muni. They didn't want to run into any members on their day off so they were "slumming" LOL. One pro playing Titleist 690MB's shot an 83 from the tips at 7007 and the other shot a 64 playing Ping G410's. To be fair to the 690 player, he got stoned and was drinking more than a few while his pard had one beer on the front and one on the back and passed on the weed but datum an 83? I asked the guy that ended up shooting the 64 if he was under contract to use the 410's and he shrugged saying No but he doesn't get to play as much as he would like and can use all the forgiveness he can get. After watching him hit accurate towering iron shots with uncanny distance control over and over again that always found the green I didn't bother asking him about feel. Probably the best ball striker I ever played with. 

So if high and drunk, play SGI irons.  Got it.

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On 9/13/2021 at 8:27 AM, is200LS said:

I think I might switch out my long irons for more forgiveness.

Nothing new.  Lots of beginners try something and think it's peaches, then later try something else and big sweet peaches.  Forgiveness isn't all it's cracked up to be for better golfers.  For people learning the game, it can make a huge difference in their attitude even if they keep playing. 

 

Of all my friends, many of which been playing since college, there are two of us that play blades, rest play very forgiving CBs.

 

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On 9/15/2021 at 7:55 PM, ShowMe said:

 

Ok, the VCOG part makes sense, I guess, although I thought that most wide-soled irons had lower centers of gravity given all the extra weight on the sole of the club.

 

But I still don't get the turf interaction part.  If I'm going to hit the ball first, then I really don't care about the turf interaction after I hit the ball.  By the time I hit the turf, the ball is gone.  For me, turf interaction only comes into play if I end up accidentally hitting behind the ball on a full shot or purposely on a flop shot.

 

Also, I never change my iron swing to fit the club, at least not consciously.  My index is 1.4, so I'm an ok player.  That said, I rarely hit an iron in the center of the clubface, my swing is just not consistent enough, which is why I use GI irons.

 

To me, the bounce angle of the club is much more important than the sole width when it comes to where you will strike the ball on the clubface.  Although, I guess there does seem to be a correlation between bounce angle and sole width in most irons' designs - i.e., wider-soled irons tend to have higher bounce angles, for the most part, than do narrow-soled irons.

Sorry, meant to quote Bladehunter IRT VCOD/Bounce however; I noticed the same with the i210s;  much higher VCOG than most and a lot of bounce, more bounce than the G410s for example.

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I don’t typically think that forgiving players irons cost me strokes, but gotta say, today my i210 irons cost me some strokes.  They look so good, and feel so good, but no question my swing needs to be more “on” when I play them or similar players irons.  

 

I will gladly go back to my regular G425 irons on a consistent basis, but my irons like the i210 aren’t going anywhere.  Fun to play when the swing is grooving.  But the G425 are simply noticeably more forgiving.

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11 hours ago, jeffrey r said:

I don’t typically think that forgiving players irons cost me strokes, but gotta say, today my i210 irons cost me some strokes.  They look so good, and feel so good, but no question my swing needs to be more “on” when I play them or similar players irons.  

 

I will gladly go back to my regular G425 irons on a consistent basis, but my irons like the i210 aren’t going anywhere.  Fun to play when the swing is grooving.  But the G425 are simply noticeably more forgiving.

 

Why not do a blended set?  If you power spec the i210 and retro spec the 425s they should come out pretty close loft wise and you could have the forgiveness where you want it and the feel where you want it.  However, I am also in the camp of fat and easy so I also support the G425s all the way.

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13 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

Why not do a blended set?  If you power spec the i210 and retro spec the 425s they should come out pretty close loft wise and you could have the forgiveness where you want it and the feel where you want it.  However, I am also in the camp of fat and easy so I also support the G425s all the way.

 

I actually did power spec the i210's, but the G425's are standard loft.  I didn't really buy the two sets with the intent of blending, but it is always a possibility.  Reality is, when I play the G425's, I have no complaints when I start getting in the shorter irons and wedges.  I can use the forgiveness at any rate, and enjoy the full set of the G425's. 

 

It's all good.  Hope to get a few more weeks in of Fall golf here in NJ, will enjoy the G425's the rest of the season, and will surely play the i210's more in the off-season, and see where things shake out in the spring.  Thanks.

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On 10/1/2021 at 7:27 PM, EddieEdwards said:

I don't have a link.  But every blade vs. Cavity back thread is full of those compaints.  I never felt any of them were valid until I played Callaway Rogues and g425s as rentals.

 

I play Maltby mmb's.  So the feel is not what I'm used to.  If the pings had heavier shafts it would have made a huge difference.  Lightweight shafts don't work for me. If I had distances dialed in, I don't think I would be flying greens either.  

 

No offense but I hardly think results with rental clubs are even worth expressing. I mean how often doess anybody use rentals ?

 

And in those CB vs blade threads it's likely the higher handicapper and/or the blade player attributing flyers to the CB.

 

Higher handicappers don't realize they miss the sweet spot so often that when they do flush one, especially downwind, it goes so far they think it's a flyer.

 

The better player, totally used to his own blades, on the rare occasion he even uses a CB, flushes it, likely lofted lower than the same # iron in his blades and especially downwind, is shocked at the distance - and voila' it's a flyer and "uncontrollable".

 

Neither of those are absolutely the (only) reason but flyers happen with blades for exactly the same reasons as with CBs.

 

They don't "happen" as often with blades because blade users are typically considerably better players and are familiar with what is and isn't a flyer.

 

Just my opinion.

 

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My problem is that while I want to try something more forgiving, most of the forgiving clubs are designed to launch high. Being a high ball hitter already, and not liking it, I can't stand the thought of playing something designed to do something I'm fighting against. Not sure how to proceed....

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26 minutes ago, bryanwmilburn said:

My problem is that while I want to try something more forgiving, most of the forgiving clubs are designed to launch high. Being a high ball hitter already, and not liking it, I can't stand the thought of playing something designed to do something I'm fighting against. Not sure how to proceed....

 

It's true most GIs are made to launch higher than "normal" (whatever that is).

 

Try them with a lower launching, usually heavier, shaft.

 

I've always hit a high ball myself but when I fit myself for my G20s I ended up with Dynamic Gold S300s. Works fine for me.

 

Most stores have fitting carts with heads and shafts.

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On 9/14/2021 at 2:55 PM, ChipNRun said:

A golf pro I once worked with had this overall advice: Get clubs for the swing you have today, not the swing you hope to have next year.

 

I have driver CHS between 85-90 MPH depending on how loose my hip is on a given day. Since I turned 60, rough fittings put me generally with GI heads and sub-100 gram shafts. I'm now making my move to graphite shafts. I got fitted for Mav MAX irons, if they ever arrive.

 

Reason for GI heads: SGI heads just hang the ball up too high in the short irons and wedges. This problem is aggravated by frequent pairing of SGI heads with high-launch shafts.

I could have written this exact same post. 
I agree 100% with everything you said here. The only difference with me is I’m 7 years older and about 3-4 mph slower than you.

I just took a flyer on the 0311XP irons.
My hope is they turn out to be a G series type iron with a touch more distance due to loft, but the same forgiving head?

I’m chomping at the bit right now to play them but I had them shipped to Long Island thinking I’d be up there now, but it turns out I won’t be making the trip up until Thanksgiving.

I’m hoping I’ll be able to sneak a few rounds in with them between then and Christmas. If not they’ll be sitting in that beautiful black PXG box until after the holidays. 🙄

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I traded in my G425 towards a set of I210 over the summer thinking the forgiveness was about the same. The I210 is a much better looking iron. I was still thinking that until this last weekend when I bought a set of rapture v2 irons for next to nothing. The difference in forgiveness is extremely noticeable especially on the toe. Yes they are butt ugly but they are in the bag for now.

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On 10/1/2021 at 1:09 AM, EddieEdwards said:

I rented the g425s recently.  Did not get along with them.  They lack feedback, couldn't find the sweet spot, at least it never felt like it.  Did the fly a green by 20 yrds thing.  Despite all the tech to help with launch, I felt the flight was a little low.

 

These are the cavity backs that blade players complain about.  No feel, unworkable, poor distance control, unable to flight the ball.

 

On 10/1/2021 at 7:27 PM, EddieEdwards said:

I don't have a link.  But every blade vs. Cavity back thread is full of those compaints.  I never felt any of them were valid until I played Callaway Rogues and g425s as rentals.

 

I play Maltby mmb's.  So the feel is not what I'm used to.  If the pings had heavier shafts it would have made a huge difference.  Lightweight shafts don't work for me. If I had distances dialed in, I don't think I would be flying greens either.  

I’m trying to make sense out of these two posts, but for the life of me I can’t.

In the first one it seems like you’re complaining that it’s the heads (doing the flier dance), then in the second one you blame the shafts.

Help me out here… can you explain this a little more clearly for me? Thanks.

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On 10/22/2021 at 12:29 PM, john myrbch said:

 

I’m trying to make sense out of these two posts, but for the life of me I can’t.

In the first one it seems like you’re complaining that it’s the heads (doing the flier dance), then in the second one you blame the shafts.

Help me out here… can you explain this a little more clearly for me? Thanks.

I don't think the heads are that bad, aside from them looking a bit chunky.  I felt my ball flight was low, and they were difficult to flight up.  Also, I'm not sure I liked the turf interaction.  I think my lack of distance control was mainly due to inconsistency and unfamiliarity.  As the round went on my distances increased as I struck them better and I flew a couple greens.  One of them by 40 yards off a tee (possibly a hot spot or flyer).

 

As far as the shafts, I reshafted a set of irons years ago with tx-90s when lightweight shafts first came out.  My distance control and strike quality went to s***, and I never regained it after about 10 rounds that the experiment lasted.  This is why I think the shafts are the problem.  The shafts in both sets of rentals felt like wet noodles.  So it's definately not a fair comparison.

 

My experiences with super game improvement distance irons have not been great, but I've never really committed to playing them.  I just don't see them being more consistent than a players iron or forgiving blade for me.

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As a plus handicap, I’ll chime in here:

 

If I’m in the fairway all day every day - easy choice. Blades. Something where I can  control the trajectory, distance, spin etc very precisely. No need for anything forgiving or something to help get the ball airborne or sole relief or whatnot. In the short grass I feel like I can take dead aim with any club - even longer irons. 
 

Now, toss me in the rough all day and the game becomes more work. You really need elite clubhead speed to play something without forgiveness out of thick rough. My course hosts district events & state qualifiers etc. The rough is no joke. This is where having a club in my hand that offers a wider sole, forgiveness no so much heel-to-toe but from sole to top line, perhaps some ‘hotness’ is welcome. 
 

Anecdotally here are a few shots in particular from rounds this past summer:

 

135 out in ridiculous rough against the grain. Had my 714mb in the bag. Advanced the ball maybe 90 yards, and left of target. If I had pro clubhead speed maybe I cut through the rough but for me, this type of lie leaves me no chance of hitting the green. 

 

175 out in rough but sitting decently. Have to get over a tree maybe 30 yards in front of me. I have my Callaway Apex CF16 in the bag. Open the face a tad on the 8 iron allowing for the lack of spin on these hotter faces irons. Ball jumps sky high, clears the tree, and lands on fringe hopping into the green to rolling up to 10 feet. 
 

185 uphill par 3. Pin in back. Water front & left. Long is woods. Our signature par 3. Played this hole many times with both sets. When the pin is way back the mb sits and holds within 6’ of its pitch. The Apex has flown the green, sat where it hit pin high, or more than once hits pin high and bounces like it hit a trampoline.

 

So… trade offs with both. For me it depends how often I’m in the fairway. If I’m at a wide open course or short track I typically use the mb. Anything super long or really really tight I opt for the forgiveness. To be fair I’ve gamed a few sets of t100 and the like looking for that unicorn of blending both kinds of sets….

 

Not sure if this helped or not but it’s something more than a few people I’ve talked to struggle with. I’m not sure there is a ‘right’ answer its more of what are you willing to accept as an outcome from each kind of iron. 

Some flavor of the month driver.
Some driving iron for Links courses.

A hybrid to save my bad shots.
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      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 9 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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