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Anybody ever have Srs on JV teams taking away playing time from underclass men.


Gsea
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I would say it is far more prevalent in the last 10 years than I can ever remember. Most teams (not just golf) used to be if you could not make Varsity as a Sr then you were cut. Anymore it seems like teams that are stacked with underclassmen will allow seniors on JV if they want to play. The underclassmen have to beat them out, for playing time. 

 

My opinion is that if a Sr wants to play on JV they should be allowed to, it is probably their last chance to play competitive sports and exposure to being on a team, being coached and losing/failing. Important lessons. Plus, the benefit of getting to practice golf every day for 3 months is something that will have value to them (more than any other sport) for the rest of their lives. See TheDominator273 above for proof.

 

 

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Personally I've never seen a school JV and a Varsity golf team. I have seen teams that have an "A" team and a "B" team which I guess you could argue is similar. 

 

Except with the A/B design you don't have the stigma of age (class) like you do with JV / Varsity. With that model it's more about ability and letting everyone get the chance to play. You can have seniors on the B team who aren't good enough to play in the top 5 and freshman on the A team who are outstanding. 

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Thanks for the responses guys. Didn't realize how much HS sports has changed. No disrespect but playing devils advocate, whats wrong with seniors trying to earn playing time on the varsity instead taking away from playing time from the schools future varsity. I know many of the states interscholastic athletic associations actually have rules against seniors on JV.

FYI this isn't a golf hot bed we are in the NE with a REAL short high school season.

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In TX it used to be prohibited under UIL rules.  I don't know if that rule is still in place or not.  Since many other rules have been changed (4 schools in the football playoffs from every district - pathetic participation award rewarding mediocrity BS), the no seniors on JV teams rule may have been mutilated as well.

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It is allowed in Texas.  My son's coach makes all the players go through a series of qualifiers and aggregate score determines placement for fall tournaments.  Then he'll do the qualifying process again in the Spring.  My son is a freshman and the coach has 5 spots per competition team - Varsity, JV1, and JV2.  The rest of the kids that want to play golf, but aren't very competitive are placed in a different class period and only have 1 or 2 short tournaments (I think 9 hole events).  

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1 minute ago, cwilk said:

It is allowed in Texas.  My son's coach makes all the players go through a series of qualifiers and aggregate score determines placement for fall tournaments.  Then he'll do the qualifying process again in the Spring.  My son is a freshman and the coach has 5 spots per competition team - Varsity, JV1, and JV2.  The rest of the kids that want to play golf, but aren't very competitive are placed in a different class period and only have 1 or 2 short tournaments (I think 9 hole events).  

That is sad to hear.  Is it now all sports or just golf?

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1 hour ago, Gsea said:

Thanks for the responses guys. Didn't realize how much HS sports has changed. No disrespect but playing devils advocate, whats wrong with seniors trying to earn playing time on the varsity instead taking away from playing time from the schools future varsity. I know many of the states interscholastic athletic associations actually have rules against seniors on JV.

FYI this isn't a golf hot bed we are in the NE with a REAL short high school season.

At least at my school the Varsity was just the top 6 players, JV was everyone else.  You'd get cycled into Varsity matches as if you started scoring well enough to be playing better than one of those top 6.

 

It's a far cry from most other sports where the Varsity and JV are two separate teams and playing JV actually meant taking playing time away from a younger player.

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22 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

That is sad to hear.  Is it now all sports or just golf?

I don't know about other sports.  It doesn't seem sad to me.  The players are positioned based on their scoring ability, not age.  

Edited by cwilk

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1 hour ago, Gsea said:

Thanks for the responses guys. Didn't realize how much HS sports has changed. No disrespect but playing devils advocate, whats wrong with seniors trying to earn playing time on the varsity instead taking away from playing time from the schools future varsity. I know many of the states interscholastic athletic associations actually have rules against seniors on JV.

FYI this isn't a golf hot bed we are in the NE with a REAL short high school season.

The concept is not about age/class as much as it is ability. Everyone should have goal of playing on Varsity. The Varsity team should be made up of the top 6 players in the school based on ability. That may be a Freshman or a Senior. The JV team should be made up of the next 6 players based on ability. At the end of the day, the 12 best golfers (in this case) should make up the golf team. If you are not in the Top 12, try harder. If #11 is a senior, why should he not play JV when he is better than #13 who is a Freshman?

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I don't understand ... do underclassmen not play on varsity? When I played high school sports ... and today when my son plays ... the best players play varsity, the next best play JV, regardless of class.

 

Nothing to do with a "participation trophy" - actually the opposite. All about competition.

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What if nothing but seniors are the ten best players. Why have a varsity and a jv or freshman team. Senior football players play on Jv or freshman teams ? A senior  who plays below his status takes some guts. But like I said not trying to argue was curious that’s all because I guess things have changed in the world of hs sports. 

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10 minutes ago, tatertot said:

I don't understand ... do underclassmen not play on varsity? When I played high school sports ... and today when my son plays ... the best players play varsity, the next best play JV, regardless of class.

 

Nothing to do with a "participation trophy" - actually the opposite. All about competition.

You misunderstand.  The issue is seniors playing on the JV team not underclassmen playing on the varsity team.

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38 minutes ago, Cheesehead42 said:

The concept is not about age/class as much as it is ability. Everyone should have goal of playing on Varsity. The Varsity team should be made up of the top 6 players in the school based on ability. That may be a Freshman or a Senior. The JV team should be made up of the next 6 players based on ability. At the end of the day, the 12 best golfers (in this case) should make up the golf team. If you are not in the Top 12, try harder. If #11 is a senior, why should he not play JV when he is better than #13 who is a Freshman?

In Indiana the Varsity and JV are FIVE man teams.

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51 minutes ago, TheDominator273 said:

At least at my school the Varsity was just the top 6 players, JV was everyone else.  You'd get cycled into Varsity matches as if you started scoring well enough to be playing better than one of those top 6.

 

It's a far cry from most other sports where the Varsity and JV are two separate teams and playing JV actually meant taking playing time away from a younger player.

This is how it was back in my day. There was no varsity or JV; just 12 or so guys playing for the top 6 spots.

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41 minutes ago, tatertot said:

I don't understand ... do underclassmen not play on varsity? When I played high school sports ... and today when my son plays ... the best players play varsity, the next best play JV, regardless of class.

 

Nothing to do with a "participation trophy" - actually the opposite. All about competition.

Maybe AJGA should have all the kids compete in one division no age brackets. HS ranges from 14-19 yrs old thats why there are Varsity, JV and freshman teams. Otherwise its all about everyone gets to participate. Compete against your age if you are that good.

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I don't cut, or better to say, my schools athletic program does not cut. I have a couple seniors who are considered JV, but our division does not have an organized JV program. So they really only get intrasquad play. I try to rotate them into a Varsity match, but that does not happen a lot. They do have the opportunity to score low enough to make the Varsity roster at any point throughout the season. My current Varsity Team is 3 Seniors, 1 Junior and 1 Sophomore, and there are 3 Seniors on the "JV" team...

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10 minutes ago, Mr. Grumpy said:

I don't cut, or better to say, my schools athletic program does not cut. I have a couple seniors who are considered JV, but our division does not have an organized JV program. So they really only get intrasquad play. I try to rotate them into a Varsity match, but that does not happen a lot. They do have the opportunity to score low enough to make the Varsity roster at any point throughout the season. My current Varsity Team is 3 Seniors, 1 Junior and 1 Sophomore, and there are 3 Seniors on the "JV" team...

Thats easy no organized jv program so no jv matches all trying for varsity rest are practice players.

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I agree with you @Gsea.  If a Senior can't contribute on Varsity and takes away from a 9th/10th grader from playing JV they should be cut.  If you need them to fill out a "B" Team roster that is a different case.  Seems to me though this isn't the case in your situation.

 

If I were coaching, I wouldn't keep more than 10 kids on the squad.  Causes too many problems and very hard to build unity.

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2 hours ago, Gsea said:

Thats easy no organized jv program so no jv matches all trying for varsity rest are practice players.

Yes essentially. Easy but stressful. I feel for the JV players who are essentially just a practice squad. I want to give them a better experience, which I try to do, but ultimately it will never replace real competition and feeling like you are getting something for your effort. It's a delicate balance because this kids will age in so I want to build and I do not want to loose them. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Grumpy said:

Yes essentially. Easy but stressful. I feel for the JV players who are essentially just a practice squad. I want to give them a better experience, which I try to do, but ultimately it will never replace real competition and feeling like you are getting something for your effort. It's a delicate balance because this kids will age in so I want to build and I do not want to loose them. 

True that actually might be a harder situation than having two teams.  

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6 hours ago, RmoorePE said:

I would say it is far more prevalent in the last 10 years than I can ever remember. Most teams (not just golf) used to be if you could not make Varsity as a Sr then you were cut. Anymore it seems like teams that are stacked with underclassmen will allow seniors on JV if they want to play. The underclassmen have to beat them out, for playing time. 

 

My opinion is that if a Sr wants to play on JV they should be allowed to, it is probably their last chance to play competitive sports and exposure to being on a team, being coached and losing/failing. Important lessons. Plus, the benefit of getting to practice golf every day for 3 months is something that will have value to them (more than any other sport) for the rest of their lives. See TheDominator273 above for proof.

 

 

Welcome to the participation trophy era. 

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