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Anybody ever have Srs on JV teams taking away playing time from underclass men.


Gsea
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34 minutes ago, Gsea said:

Don't need wind in my sails. I have a mind of my own and the last thing that will influence it is an internet forum. Also thought you didn't have a JV team

So you just started this thread to argue with people?

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14 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

This argument doesn't hold much weight.  If your BEST JV player is taking his place, why isn't that player on the Varsity Squad already?  I don't want my best JV player taking his place unless he is going to get burn.  I want my best JV player to continue competing on the JV level.

 

From a coaching staDo quad, he should be cut.  Show me a coach that would put a Senior on JV and I will show you a coach that isn't a good coach.

 

@Gseahas a legitimate point.  Putting a Senior on JV is useless.

Do you guys even read what you write? Why isn't the best JV player on Varsity? Because he's the 13th best player, and only 12 players can play varsity? And if one of those 12 get hurt, the 13th best player becomes one of the best 12. And any coach (well, coach that knows what he/she is doing) wants their best players available for Varsity, even if it's on the bench.

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9 hours ago, tatertot said:

Do you guys even read what you write? Why isn't the best JV player on Varsity? Because he's the 13th best player, and only 12 players can play varsity? And if one of those 12 get hurt, the 13th best player becomes one of the best 12. And any coach (well, coach that knows what he/she is doing) wants their best players available for Varsity, even if it's on the bench.

I know exactly what I wrote.  I was a highly successful HS basketball coach at one point in my life.  No, I wouldn't have necessarily brought the best JV player up to varsity.  And no, the best player on JV is not necessarily the 13th best player on Varsity.  If the JV player was going to come up and contribute, then bring them up.  If they are going to ride the pine on Varsity, you leave them on JV to develop.  Show me a coach that would bring a sophomore up to ride the bench on varsity and I will show you an unsuccessful coach.

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I coach HS Girls Golf and last season I had 16 girls on the team.  My JV team was essentially my Varsity B team with 4 Seniors rotating with 6 underclassmen. My Varsity team was made up of a mix of seniors, juniors, and freshmen. I rotated players into the last spot on Varsity based on scores.  I was trying to constantly find the best 6 girls to play varsity (play 6 take 4 scores in OH). I think its an outdated idea that seniors can't play on JV (or B team) because in the world of girls golf for HS you need as many girls as possible at schools without a large girl population.  I found out the hard way by actually cutting girls and this year I only have 9 players, next year will have 5 returning.  SO in my experience you keep as many players as possible every year to develop talent and play them where you can. If you build a great team atmosphere and program the student-athletes will enjoy playing no matter where they are on the depth chart because they love the team and their teammates. Good luck to all the HS teams competing this year. Can't believe the season is almost over in some parts of the country already!  

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Seems to me this entire issue could easily be resolved (at least for golf) by just having an "A" team and a "B" team and eliminating the Varsity/Junior Varsity titles.

 

Most of the arguments against (mine included) upperclassmen playing JV is that for pretty much all of time and in most sports JV has been associated with freshman and sophomores. So having an 18 year old senior competing against a 14 year old freshman just doesn't make sense. 

 

If you go with the A/B team model then you basically just have two teams with no age related stigmas that can compete 100% based on ability. The better players, regardless of age, are on the A team and the less skilled players on the B team.

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1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

Seems to me this entire issue could easily be resolved (at least for golf) by just having an "A" team and a "B" team and eliminating the Varsity/Junior Varsity titles.

 

Agreed, unfortunately our state/division/schools go by jv and varsity. They don't play the same teams on the same days, don't travel or practice together. Have two different coaches etc. The state actually has separate jv and varsity state tournaments.

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On 9/14/2021 at 4:18 PM, Mr. Grumpy said:

I don't cut, or better to say, my schools athletic program does not cut. I have a couple seniors who are considered JV, but our division does not have an organized JV program. So they really only get intrasquad play.

I read your division does not have a an organized JV program

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4 minutes ago, Gsea said:

Agreed, unfortunately our state/division/schools go by jv and varsity. They don't play the same teams on the same days, don't travel or practice together. Have two different coaches etc. The state actually has separate jv and varsity state tournaments.

They have a JV state tournament?  Wow, that is bizarre.

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I am a HS coach for the past 15 years and we have a pretty successful program historically(dating back to the 1960's).  We allow MS kids to tryout and play on our JV team, and we have all juniors and seniors tryout for the Varsity team (as well as talented underclassman). The top 8 in the three round varsity tryouts make the varsity team, anyone who is a junior or senior who isn't in the top 8 gets cut (unless the team is heavy with seniors, then we may allow a few juniors play jv (we view JV as a developmental program for our varsity team), and we usually keep top players from each grade level (usually 5 per grade, but usually more 9-10th graders and fewer 7-8th graders). We also have a practice squad for 7-10th graders who don't make the JV team, and have them come down and practice 2 times a week (we want to have as many participate as possible but there are limitations at our facility). 

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6 hours ago, Gsea said:

Agreed, unfortunately our state/division/schools go by jv and varsity. They don't play the same teams on the same days, don't travel or practice together. Have two different coaches etc. The state actually has separate jv and varsity state tournaments.

What state? Public/Private? I have never heard of a state sponsored JV tournament in any sport. That’s interesting 

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Seems a strange question to me (Edit: now I see the OP has some reasons based on his state).

 

Both high schools I attended had the players who were playing the best golf taking up the varsity and the next group of players by performance playing JV, what's wrong with that?  And there was some shuffling around at the bottom of varsity and top of JV from time to time.  Want to play?  Get better.

 

My daughter who played tennis?  The tennis team maintained rankings of the players from 1 - whatever.  First six played varsity, next six played JV.  You played at meets based on performance, there were occasional challenge matches, JV was out there to win, also, and if a senior played JV, what of it?  They deserved to play.  

Edited by Hawkeye77
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14 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Seems a strange question to me (Edit: now I see the OP has some reasons based on his state).

 

Both high schools I attended had the players who were playing the best golf taking up the varsity and the next group of players by performance playing JV, what's wrong with that?  And there was some shuffling around at the bottom of varsity and top of JV from time to time.  Want to play?  Get better.

 

My daughter who played tennis?  The tennis team maintained rankings of the players from 1 - whatever.  First six played varsity, next six played JV.  You played at meets based on performance, there were occasional challenge matches, JV was out there to win, also, and if a senior played JV, what of it?  They deserved to play.  

 

No one deserves to play.  Playing is a privilege, not a right.

 

JV teams are meant for development.  Wins and Losses don't mean anything.  Years ago when I was young and stupid coaching JV hoops I thought that wins meant something.  One of the best teams I ever coached with 6 Freshman on the team and 6 sophomores.  4 of the Freshman started.  Best Player on my team was a 6'5" SF that went on to play D1 hoops.  His Uncle and Guardian came up to me about the 8th game of the season.  He says "Why aren't the kids on the bench getting to play?"  I looked at him oddly without saying a word.  He looks at me and says "Wins don't mean any thing at this level.  Your job is to develop talent for that guy sitting over there for next years team." He points to the Varsity Coach.  I thought about it.  Was angry at first.  I then came to the conclusion that I was going to play everyone in the next game at some point.  Every Kid was going to get at least 2 minutes in the game and just not at mop up time.  The next game I did and we won.  The Uncle looks at me after the game and smiled.  Rest of my JV coaching career I did the same thing with two of those teams going to the Florida HS State Championship game when they advanced to Varsity.  I could develop talent.

 

What is the point?  The job of the JV team and coach is to develop talent for the Varsity for NEXT Year.  Seniors are gone the following year.  If a Senior can't play varsity, cut them.  If a junior can't contribute as one of the top 5 on JV, cut them.  

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2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

No one deserves to play.  Playing is a privilege, not a right.

 

JV teams are meant for development.  Wins and Losses don't mean anything.  Years ago when I was young and stupid coaching JV hoops I thought that wins meant something.  One of the best teams I ever coached with 6 Freshman on the team and 6 sophomores.  4 of the Freshman started.  Best Player on my team was a 6'5" SF that went on to play D1 hoops.  His Uncle and Guardian came up to me about the 8th game of the season.  He says "Why aren't the kids on the bench getting to play?"  I looked at him oddly without saying a word.  He looks at me and says "Wins don't mean any thing at this level.  Your job is to develop talent for that guy sitting over there for next years team." He points to the Varsity Coach.  I thought about it.  Was angry at first.  I then came to the conclusion that I was going to play everyone in the next game at some point.  Every Kid was going to get at least 2 minutes in the game and just not at mop up time.  The next game I did and we won.  The Uncle looks at me after the game and smiled.  Rest of my JV coaching career I did the same thing with two of those teams going to the Florida HS State Championship game when they advanced to Varsity.  I could develop talent.

 

What is the point?  The job of the JV team and coach is to develop talent for the Varsity for NEXT Year.  Seniors are gone the following year.  If a Senior can't play varsity, cut them.  If a junior can't contribute as one of the top 5 on JV, cut them.  

Butcher! 😉

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2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

No one deserves to play.  Playing is a privilege, not a right.

 

JV teams are meant for development.  Wins and Losses don't mean anything.  Years ago when I was young and stupid coaching JV hoops I thought that wins meant something.  One of the best teams I ever coached with 6 Freshman on the team and 6 sophomores.  4 of the Freshman started.  Best Player on my team was a 6'5" SF that went on to play D1 hoops.  His Uncle and Guardian came up to me about the 8th game of the season.  He says "Why aren't the kids on the bench getting to play?"  I looked at him oddly without saying a word.  He looks at me and says "Wins don't mean any thing at this level.  Your job is to develop talent for that guy sitting over there for next years team." He points to the Varsity Coach.  I thought about it.  Was angry at first.  I then came to the conclusion that I was going to play everyone in the next game at some point.  Every Kid was going to get at least 2 minutes in the game and just not at mop up time.  The next game I did and we won.  The Uncle looks at me after the game and smiled.  Rest of my JV coaching career I did the same thing with two of those teams going to the Florida HS State Championship game when they advanced to Varsity.  I could develop talent.

 

What is the point?  The job of the JV team and coach is to develop talent for the Varsity for NEXT Year.  Seniors are gone the following year.  If a Senior can't play varsity, cut them.  If a junior can't contribute as one of the top 5 on JV, cut them.  

I’m talking golf and tennis - to me big difference between those and football or BB, but not all coaches have the same philosophy for sure. 

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3 hours ago, Movingday said:

That looks like a JV tournament that everyone is invited to play in. It does not look like a JV State Championship Tournament sponsored by the high school governing body. Now it could be, hard to tell with that screen shot. 
 

Just for clarification NHIAA is the high school governing body and as you can see all member schools are invited. Not hard to tell in that screen shot. We will leave it at that.

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Not sure why a senior would want to play on JV team in any sport.  A senior who likes golf would be better off finding some buddies and play golf on their own like they're going to have to do after they graduate.

 

Golf is not really a team sport at the end of the day.  If you're on a high school team you should be able to play tournaments with them. If you not then go out and find some tournaments to play.   If you have the desire to play there are tons of tournaments out there for every age and skill level.

 

At the end of the day the Coach should be looking to develop the best team they can or if the are not that competitive they should be allowing the most kids to play.

 

 

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On 9/14/2021 at 12:56 PM, ThinkingPlus said:

In TX it used to be prohibited under UIL rules.  I don't know if that rule is still in place or not.  Since many other rules have been changed (4 schools in the football playoffs from every district - pathetic participation award rewarding mediocrity BS), the no seniors on JV teams rule may have been mutilated as well.

Seniors can be on the jv in swim in Texas.  Baseball, football, volleyball, softball, wrestling is no seniors on jv (still). Not sure about track or golf. 
 

I disagree with the take on the 4 playoff teams. There are some districts that the district champion wouldn’t stand a chance against the 4th or even lower place team. I do see your point, and if you win em all it doesn’t matter, but having those other spots does help. 

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