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For the most controlled shots..... mid or high-bend point shafts?


Barfolomew
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Hey Guys 💪

 

For the most control.... would you want a high or mid-bend point shaft? 

 

I know it's not a softer tip shaft lol

 

And if the answer is it matters on your swing then in a general sense for faster swingers.... and if that still doesn't suffice then what are the general character differences between mid and high-bend point shaft?

 

I'm on the hunt to make the most controllable driver possible.... gonna get an LD very stiff shaft but they have different bend points

Edited by Barfolomew

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It’s very swing dependent but in theory a mid/high to high flex point will be more controlled at high speeds. With tip technology the way it is now there are many more flex profiles though that can match your swing and maintain better feel with all the control. I know it’s said often but try every shaft you can. Even if just to compare profiles. 

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7 minutes ago, mogc60 said:

It’s very swing dependent but in theory a mid/high to high flex point will be more controlled at high speeds. With tip technology the way it is now there are many more flex profiles though that can match your swing and maintain better feel with all the control. I know it’s said often but try every shaft you can. Even if just to compare profiles. 

 

I hear ya but I have to buy online and try vs getting to hit them first.... so just trying to make the best guess with any info I can get

 

So you saying the higher the bend point the more control?  Guess makes sense if tip soft is the least control

Edited by Barfolomew

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For me it’s a stiff handle no matter what the rest I can learn swiftly, but If the handle is soft…never good and I end up wasting a lot of swings in a fit. I’ve learned to stay away over the years 

 

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1 hour ago, Barfolomew said:

 

I hear ya but I have to buy online and try vs getting to hit them first.... so just trying to make the best guess with any info I can get

 

So you saying the higher the bend point the more control?  Guess makes sense if tip soft is the least control


The best you can do if buying blind is go by the VERY general rule of thumb that faster speeds and quicker tempos will tend to lean towards higher bend point shafts. This comes with caveats that one, there will be plenty of exceptions to this rule, and two, bend point is pretty outdated and somewhat useless criteria for buying a shaft outside the extremes. I can give you three different "high bend point" shafts that feel and perform completely differently. Plus there are half a dozen other criteria that will be far more important when it comes to what gives you the most control, primarily things like weight and length. 

Bottom line, it is mostly a crap shoot if you're not going to try anything first so flipping a coin will have a similar success rate until you amass enough data about your own preferences to make a more informed decision.  

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There is no clear cut answer to this.  My ss is on the higher side and I match up well with high bend point, linear shafts that are relatively stiff throughout.  I have a very aggressive transition as well.  I play with a member's son over at my cc who's ss is 130 and he was fitted for a Diamana TB in his driver which is a blue board profile that has more of a mind bend point with softer tip.  Different strokes for different folks. 

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1 hour ago, Barfolomew said:

 

I hear ya but I have to buy online and try vs getting to hit them first.... so just trying to make the best guess with any info I can get

 

So you saying the higher the bend point the more control?  Guess makes sense if tip soft is the least control

Higher bend point doesn't necessarily equate to more control.  It's more about how you deliver the club into the ball, how fast/late your release is, spin numbers and weight among other factors. 

Edited by phizzy30
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18 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

There is no clear cut answer to this.  My ss is on the higher side and I match up well with high bend point, linear shafts that are relatively stiff throughout.  I have a very aggressive transition as well.  I play with a member's son over at my cc who's ss is 130 and he was fitted for a Diamana TB in his driver which is a blue board profile that has more of a mind bend point with softer tip.  Different strokes for different folks. 

 

Thanks guys makes sense!

 

I had that idea in the back of my mind..... a shaft that is stiff throughout...... why does it need a single bend point!!! Would prob be the most predictable/controllable type of shaft

 

Any known shafts that are linear as you call them???

I try and like my own posts but can't figure out how...

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1 hour ago, Barfolomew said:

 

Thanks guys makes sense!

 

I had that idea in the back of my mind..... a shaft that is stiff throughout...... why does it need a single bend point!!! Would prob be the most predictable/controllable type of shaft

 

Any known shafts that are linear as you call them???


An important thing to consider is the fundamental nature of shaft construction and what that means in regards to stiffness. Because of the necessity of taper in shaft construction, a shaft will naturally lose stiffness in direct proportion to said taper. This is why most cheaper OEM shafts follow a similar EI profile of being stiffer in the handle and soft in the tip, picture it like a simple 45* angle on a chart. "Linear" then can be interpreted in two different ways, look at it like "cheap linear" and "expensive linear". Cheap linear is what we see in many stock OEM shafts; a more consistent loss in stiffness from butt to tip. No strengthening materials added to reinforce the soft tip section, no material manipulation in the middle to change how the shaft loads, and not much going on in the handle other than a little material manipulation for balance point adjustment. The stock HZRDUS Smoke Black is a perfect example of this:

SmokeBlack.JPG.231bc8dbf8362caf04b17d37f7b6e814.JPG

There are a dozen other OEM shafts from different companies with basically the same profile since its one of the easiest and cheapest designs to make. 

Now with "expensive linear" the goal is to fight against this natural stiffness curve create by shaft taper and even out either side:

SmokeOrange.JPG.1ce9efaa97c01484083b4d8b24e3c3c9.JPG

The Tensei Pro Orange layered in here is a good example of this. The handle is softer and the tip is stiffer, creating a higher tip to butt ratio (handle stiffness compared to tip stiffness) and thus a more "linear" design that will feel more "one piece" and stable to many people. This accomplished by both manipulating shaft taper (Pro Orange has a smaller handle diameter) but also by introducing those fancy materials they like to advertise. MR70 in the tip section halts some of the stiffness loss inherent in a tapered shaft and the carbon/kevlar weave in the handle keeps the torque very low and the hoop strength (resistance to deformation) very high while still technically being "softer" from a CPM standpoint. The Smoke Black could achieve the same thing by simply using less material in the handle, but the torque and hoop deformation potential would rise creating a weaker/flimsier feeling handle, and the balance point would also drop. By using lightweight and extremely strong materials, shafts like the Pro Orange can achieve these sorts of linear designs while avoiding the drawbacks. 

https://www.golfshaftreviews.info/project-x-hzrdus-smoke-review/
https://www.golfshaftreviews.info/mitsubishi-tensei-pro-orange-golf-shaft-review/

Edited by Valtiel

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3 minutes ago, Valtiel said:


An important thing to consider is the fundamental nature of shaft construction and what that means in regards to stiffness. Because of the necessity of taper in shaft construction, a shaft will naturally lose stiffness in direct proportion to said taper. This is why most cheaper OEM shafts follow a similar EI profile of being stiffer in the handle and soft in the tip, picture it like a simple 45* angle on a chart. "Linear" then can be interpreted in two different ways, look at it like "cheap linear" and "expensive linear". Cheap linear is what we see in many stock OEM shafts; a more consistent loss in stiffness from butt to tip. No strengthening materials added to reinforce the soft tip section, no material manipulation in the middle to change how the shaft loads, and not much going on in the handle other than a little material manipulation for balance point adjustment. The stock HZRDUS Smoke Black is a perfect example of this:

SmokeBlack.JPG.231bc8dbf8362caf04b17d37f7b6e814.JPG

There are a dozen other OEM shafts from different companies with basically the same profile since its one of the easiest designs to make. 

Now with "expensive linear" the goal is to fight against this natural stiffness curve create by shaft taper and even out either side:

SmokeOrange.JPG.1ce9efaa97c01484083b4d8b24e3c3c9.JPG

The Tensei Pro Orange layered in here is a good example of this. The handle is softer and the tip is stiffer, creating a higher tip to butt ratio (handle stiffness compared to tip stiffness) and thus a more "linear" design that will feel more "one piece" and stable to many people. This accomplished by both manipulating shaft taper (Pro Orange has a smaller handle diameter) but also by introducing those fancy materials they like to advertise. MR70 in the tip section halts some of the stiffness loss inherent in a tapered shaft and the carbon/kevlar weave in the handle keeps the torque very low and the hoop strength (resistance to deformation) very high while still technically being "softer" from a CPM standpoint. The Smoke Black could achieve the same thing by simply using less material in the handle, but the torque and hoop deformation potential would rise creating a weaker/flimsier feeling handle, and the balance point would also drop. By using lightweight and extremely strong materials, shafts like the Pro Orange can achieve these sorts of linear designs while avoiding the drawbacks. 

 

Thanks Valtiel that's some good info there!

 

Now I just need an OEM to make a non-tapered shaft that is thick all the way down and let the adapter be larger at one end and "step down" to fit the head. 

 

The profiles could be exactly what you design and bend exactly how you want and not deal with headaches of the taper getting in the way of design and manufacturing.... they could be stout or soft at any point and be cheaper prob too..... who do I call lol? 🤣

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It depends on what you mean by control. If that's accuracy you get that from lower torque ratings. Bend point mainly affects the launch angle.

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3 minutes ago, Billfitz said:

It depends on what you mean by control. If that's accuracy you get that from lower torque ratings. Bend point mainly affects the launch angle.

 

Yes I would obviously want shafts with low torque ratings so the shaft twists less at contact.... I was surprised to see many of the LD shafts with torque over 3.0.... but again they are looking for distance and I'm lookin for the opposite. 

 

So when lookin at the LD shafts I had to remind myself what I heard Kyle Berkshire say on a video and that he switched to a soft shaft last couple years.... so the cliche of the LD stuff being the most stout isn't always true..... cant assume nothin

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10 minutes ago, Barfolomew said:

 

Thanks Valtiel that's some good info there!

 

Now I just need an OEM to make a non-tapered shaft that is thick all the way down and let the adapter be larger at one end and "step down" to fit the head. 

 

The profiles could be exactly what you design and bend exactly how you want and not deal with headaches of the taper getting in the way of design and manufacturing.... they could be stout or soft at any point and be cheaper prob too..... who do I call lol? 🤣


Hah, unfortunately this has been tried....

812439649_s-l500(2).jpg.bb77848e50be7395be620b9add5ae711.jpg

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I've always like the DG bend profile and used to play X100's but have looked for other options to hit the ball higher.

 

I tried the FST 115 shaft, which I liked better than the DG's. Then I tried some TT Lite XL Taper Tip - even though I never liked the TT Lite's because the bend point was too low and I never could hit them straight. However, the taper tip has changed this so now I get the best of both worlds, I hit the ball high and straight.

 

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10 hours ago, chipa said:

I've always like the DG bend profile and used to play X100's but have looked for other options to hit the ball higher.

 

I tried the FST 115 shaft, which I liked better than the DG's. Then I tried some TT Lite XL Taper Tip - even though I never liked the TT Lite's because the bend point was too low and I never could hit them straight. However, the taper tip has changed this so now I get the best of both worlds, I hit the ball high and straight.

 


Why dont you just bend lofts weaker? Tiger plays his irons with lofts about 2* weak to get higher launch, because thats a loft issue, NOT a shaft issue. Its loft at impact who is in charge of launch angle, and it does not matter how that loft came a live, be it a shaft that bends more and deliver more loft, or if we bend the heads to gain more loft. If DG X100 is what feels right, bend lofts if you want a higher ball flight.

Edited by Howard_Jones
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21 hours ago, Valtiel said:


An important thing to consider is the fundamental nature of shaft construction and what that means in regards to stiffness. Because of the necessity of taper in shaft construction, a shaft will naturally lose stiffness in direct proportion to said taper. This is why most cheaper OEM shafts follow a similar EI profile of being stiffer in the handle and soft in the tip, picture it like a simple 45* angle on a chart. "Linear" then can be interpreted in two different ways, look at it like "cheap linear" and "expensive linear". Cheap linear is what we see in many stock OEM shafts; a more consistent loss in stiffness from butt to tip. No strengthening materials added to reinforce the soft tip section, no material manipulation in the middle to change how the shaft loads, and not much going on in the handle other than a little material manipulation for balance point adjustment. The stock HZRDUS Smoke Black is a perfect example of this:

SmokeBlack.JPG.231bc8dbf8362caf04b17d37f7b6e814.JPG

There are a dozen other OEM shafts from different companies with basically the same profile since its one of the easiest and cheapest designs to make. 

Now with "expensive linear" the goal is to fight against this natural stiffness curve create by shaft taper and even out either side:

SmokeOrange.JPG.1ce9efaa97c01484083b4d8b24e3c3c9.JPG

The Tensei Pro Orange layered in here is a good example of this. The handle is softer and the tip is stiffer, creating a higher tip to butt ratio (handle stiffness compared to tip stiffness) and thus a more "linear" design that will feel more "one piece" and stable to many people. This accomplished by both manipulating shaft taper (Pro Orange has a smaller handle diameter) but also by introducing those fancy materials they like to advertise. MR70 in the tip section halts some of the stiffness loss inherent in a tapered shaft and the carbon/kevlar weave in the handle keeps the torque very low and the hoop strength (resistance to deformation) very high while still technically being "softer" from a CPM standpoint. The Smoke Black could achieve the same thing by simply using less material in the handle, but the torque and hoop deformation potential would rise creating a weaker/flimsier feeling handle, and the balance point would also drop. By using lightweight and extremely strong materials, shafts like the Pro Orange can achieve these sorts of linear designs while avoiding the drawbacks. 

https://www.golfshaftreviews.info/project-x-hzrdus-smoke-review/
https://www.golfshaftreviews.info/mitsubishi-tensei-pro-orange-golf-shaft-review/

All that shaft info is from a paid site...but who care's about that kinda stuff. 

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1 hour ago, Darth_Blader said:

All that shaft info is from a paid site...but who care's about that kinda stuff. 

 

Your point? The profile images are, but not the things I wrote about them. 

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      Andy Ogletree - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Will Zalatoris - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Stephan Jaeger - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Kevin Chappell - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Jonas Blixt - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Kevin Streelman - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Sam Burns - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Matthew Wolff - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Gary Woodland - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Davis Thompson - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship Sam Saunders - WITB - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
      Special Galleries
       
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
      Cameron putters - 2021 Sanderson Farms Championship  
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    • 2021 Fortinet Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #1
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #2
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #3
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #4
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #5
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #6
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #7
      2021 Fortinet Championship - Tuesday #8
       
       
      New Ping putter - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      New Bettinardi putters & Cover - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Ping Putters - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Odyssey putters - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Cameron putter and new ball marker - 2021 Fortinet Championship
       
       
      Sneds - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Peter Uihlein - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Charles Howell, III - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Scott Piercy - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Brandan Steele - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Mito Pereira - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
      Kevin Tway - WITB -2021 Fortinet Championship
      Joseph Bramlett - WITB - 2021 Fortinet Championship
       
       
       
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