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Do current irons and drivers protect from fade/slice by being too closed?


bulls9999
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Just curious, I used to have a natural slice/fade to my shots (could never draw the ball, even by accident).  Now, I'm all draw and I like it, can control it, I'm hitting the ball from the inside somewhere in the 7-9 o'clock position (lefty). Everyone compliments me on 'how well you draw the ball'. Both driver and irons, I can hit shots that go over the left rough/trees and comes back into the fairway; hardly ever gets stuck out there straight on the left side; if I have a problem, its mostly not getting the ball high enough and hit into trees on the left.  OK, great, got the draw covered, but now I'm bored of this 1-dimensional play and have been trying to fade the ball at will on the range (to bring it onto the course) and can't do it!!  What the heck?  I'm wondering if my irons (Callaway Rogue Pro) and driver (Callaway Epic Flash) are just set up with closed faces to protect from hitting slices?  Is there such a thing with GI irons or am I just making that up?  I'm going to pull out my old Callaway FT Optiplex driver and TM RSI 6-iron (I recall those face are more straightly aligned with the shaft than any other driver or iron i've had in a while and see if that helps promote the fade.  Thanks for any comments.

 

Additional thoughts....I'm wondering when I used to fade/slice the ball all the time, I believe I was swinging going over the top.  I've since been coming in low from the inside (= draw).  So, if I want to fade now, do I have to revert back to over the top on those shots, hitting the ball at 10-11 o'clock (I'm a lefty remember) with an out to in path (that seems like such a weak swing)?

Edited by bulls9999

GHIN Index 12.7
LH Epic Flash Driver-LH, 10.5*, Tensei CK Blue 60-Stiff 
LH Callaway Rogue 5-wood (18*), 7-wood (20*); Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Callaway Rogue Pro 4-AW, Recoil 760 F3
LH Callaway Rogue 19* 3-Hb, Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Cleveland RTX 50*, 54*, 58*
LH Odyssey Double Wide Stroke Lab Putter

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Some clubs do, a lot don't.  With drivers it's not unusual for OEM's to put the CoG more towards the heel to help with the slice.  I find that the Ping G425 Max does that and a lot of Callaway drivers have the CoG moved more towards the heel.

 

 

 

 

RH

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I think it's more internal draw bias in most drivers. I play any driver I use as open as it will go and still draw/hook it.

  Recently picked up a Wishon 919 head (and because with Wishon you can actually speak to the guy who designed the head) He said there's absolutely no internal bias either way. So, while I draw a 2*-3* open face OEM the Wishon with a square face goes straight, little fade or I can even slice it if I put a bad swing on it.

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On 9/18/2021 at 7:23 AM, bulls9999 said:

Just curious, I used to have a natural slice/fade to my shots (could never draw the ball, even by accident).  Now, I'm all draw and I like it, can control it, I'm hitting the ball from the inside somewhere in the 7-9 o'clock position (lefty). 

 

Additional thoughts....I'm wondering when I used to fade/slice the ball all the time, I believe I was swinging going over the top.  I've since been coming in low from the inside (= draw).  So, if I want to fade now, do I have to revert back to over the top on those shots, hitting the ball at 10-11 o'clock (I'm a lefty remember) with an out to in path (that seems like such a weak swing)?


These bits are connected, everything else about equipment isn't relevant here (or nearly as relevant as this anyway). You're likely coming very far from the inside now as you described and i'd wager you have a strong grip too, perhaps too strong. It is super common to flip from one extreme to the other when attempting to correct an over the top, slicey move, and the inside -> out, strong grip, shut the face draw is often where people end up. Fades/cuts become almost impossible because for one, your club path would turn them into pushes/blocks, and two, your strong grip (if I am correct) is simply closing the face too fast in delivery to even have the option of keeping it neutral/open. If you have video of your swing and/or a shot of your grip then we can confirm/disprove this. If i'm right, the solution is mechanical in that you'll need to take deconstruct your club path and your grip and work to neutralize them. 

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5 hours ago, Valtiel said:


These bits are connected, everything else about equipment isn't relevant here (or nearly as relevant as this anyway). You're likely coming very far from the inside now as you described and i'd wager you have a strong grip too, perhaps too strong. It is super common to flip from one extreme to the other when attempting to correct an over the top, slicey move, and the inside -> out, strong grip, shut the face draw is often where people end up. Fades/cuts become almost impossible because for one, your club path would turn them into pushes/blocks, and two, your strong grip (if I am correct) is simply closing the face too fast in delivery to even have the option of keeping it neutral/open. If you have video of your swing and/or a shot of your grip then we can confirm/disprove this. If i'm right, the solution is mechanical in that you'll need to take deconstruct your club path and your grip and work to neutralize them. 

 

You are correct, I know I'm coming from the inside and I do have a strong grip (use Jumbo grips with 4 wraps... Star tacky grips). But I don't think I'm shutting the face much but am hitting from the inside (to out).  My fault is a straight push that doesn't draw (lefty so push out to the left), and I hardly worry about the right OOB.  But I'm getting anxious that by doing this, I'm giving up working the ball the other way (fade).  Hmm....I've really grown accustomed to this big grip (kind of like Bryson) and recently trying some irons at our club or at G.G. has been wierd since it's like holding pencils in my hands, but I still hit them decently...maybe I should take out my old set with standard grips and see if I get better luck at fades. Thanks for the suggestions, you have been spot on regarding striking the ball from the inside and strong grip.

Edited by bulls9999
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GHIN Index 12.7
LH Epic Flash Driver-LH, 10.5*, Tensei CK Blue 60-Stiff 
LH Callaway Rogue 5-wood (18*), 7-wood (20*); Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Callaway Rogue Pro 4-AW, Recoil 760 F3
LH Callaway Rogue 19* 3-Hb, Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Cleveland RTX 50*, 54*, 58*
LH Odyssey Double Wide Stroke Lab Putter

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On 9/19/2021 at 11:41 AM, Hawkeye77 said:

A closed face iron? 🙃

 

 

OK, OK, I was reaching there 😂🤣

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GHIN Index 12.7
LH Epic Flash Driver-LH, 10.5*, Tensei CK Blue 60-Stiff 
LH Callaway Rogue 5-wood (18*), 7-wood (20*); Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Callaway Rogue Pro 4-AW, Recoil 760 F3
LH Callaway Rogue 19* 3-Hb, Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Cleveland RTX 50*, 54*, 58*
LH Odyssey Double Wide Stroke Lab Putter

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19 hours ago, bulls9999 said:

 

You are correct, I know I'm coming from the inside and I do have a strong grip (use Jumbo grips with 4 wraps... Star tacky grips). But I don't think I'm shutting the face much but am hitting from the inside (to out).  My fault is a straight push that doesn't draw (lefty so push out to the left), and I hardly worry about the right OOB.  But I'm getting anxious that by doing this, I'm giving up working the ball the other way (fade).  Hmm....I've really grown accustomed to this big grip (kind of like Bryson) and recently trying some irons at our club or at G.G. has been wierd since it's like holding pencils in my hands, but I still hit them decently...maybe I should take out my old set with standard grips and see if I get better luck at fades. Thanks for the suggestions, you have been spot on regarding striking the ball from the inside and strong grip.


It felt familiar to me because I remember working out of the same problem back around 2015ish. I was barely playing and not checking in with anything technical, and my swing had moved too far in the slinging draw direction. My backswing had gotten overly flat and inside, so my right hand got stronger to compensate. I was coming far enough from the inside that it felt like i'd sooner start spontaneously speaking Mandarin than be able to conjure a reliable fade, I just couldn't start anything left (righty). The solution was simply getting back on plane in my backswing and neutralizing my right hand grip, which had the knock on effect of neutralizing my path. I tend to favor fades more these days for other reasons, but the point is that you can absolutely get back to playing a fade with the right adjustments/neutralizations, but it may come at the expense of some of that right OOB avoidance confidence. 

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Everything you guys are saying is true about path and face angle being the cause of draws and hooks but the answer to this question is a definitive yes. Game improvement irons and drivers are engineered to turn the ball over and minimize a slice. Everything from the excessive offset to the weighting being moved further back and heel side promotes right to left. 

 

There are clubs I pick up off the rack that are pointed straight left when I look down on them in address position. 

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1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

Everything you guys are saying is true about path and face angle being the cause of draws and hooks but the answer to this question is a definitive yes. Game improvement irons and drivers are engineered to turn the ball over and minimize a slice. Everything from the excessive offset to the weighting being moved further back and heel side promotes right to left. 

 

There are clubs I pick up off the rack that are pointed straight left when I look down on them in address position. 

So I'm not crazy and not making this up?  Lol!!

GHIN Index 12.7
LH Epic Flash Driver-LH, 10.5*, Tensei CK Blue 60-Stiff 
LH Callaway Rogue 5-wood (18*), 7-wood (20*); Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Callaway Rogue Pro 4-AW, Recoil 760 F3
LH Callaway Rogue 19* 3-Hb, Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Cleveland RTX 50*, 54*, 58*
LH Odyssey Double Wide Stroke Lab Putter

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