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When Was The Pitching Wedge Jacked Up To 48 Degrees?


EmperorPenguin
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12 hours ago, Shallowface said:

That Cobra PW was 43 degrees, and the Gap Wedge was 50.

 

Specs weren't as widely known then as they are now.  I remember reading about a Mizuno rep complaining that he was having a tough time competing with those Cobra irons at demo days.  Everyone hit the Cobra wedge longer than the Mizuno product, without knowing the reason why, and thought that somehow the Cobra was a superior product.

 

A concept still being used on unsuspecting consumers to this very day, despite the information being much more available. 

That last sentence says it all IMHO and I will add they do not and can not fathom the truth--- One of my sometimes scramble partners plays a newer set of Cleveland Shovels ( not the hybrid thingys) and the lofts are marked right on them. His " PW" is stamped 44* . The other week we had a hard shot into the wind with a elevated green. I told him and I knew what I was doing let me hit your 3 iron. He said I do not carry anything higher than a 5 iron ---- I told him your 5 iron is the same thing basically at 24* as a Mac 3 iron which as SOP I do not carry any more. Proceeded to hit a Stuey Stinger with that thing-- He has tried to copy my bump and run shots around the green with his "5 iron" and can not do it and can not fathom why. I finally got him bump and running with his 7 iron------ Yep non gearheads  can not understand jacked lofts etc and the manufacturers are counting on it for sales.  BTW the ball came off the face of his 5 iron hot hot hot and I could not cut it and it went straight and over the green. Wish I had taken the 1 or 2 iron out of the trunk of the car that morning. As SOP I only carry 12 clubs so I can slip something in the top end or on the bottom end my Hogan Sure Out if the traps are really fluffy. That morning when we started the wind was non existant but the last 3 holes it had really picked up.

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Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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16 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Original Eye2 specs are for a 50.5* PW

 

Yep that is what the one I have is at 50.5*--- Ping for some reason always had those 1/2* loft thing going on

  • Like 3

Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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14 hours ago, Nard_S said:

I'll take your word. Pretty certain mine played to 48* and highly likely they were the "+" models. Bought them off used rack. Don't remember exactly.Following set were DCI Gold's and those were caertainly 48*. Both played to same distance.

 

My 681's are 49*and you can not tell but those RAM's at 50* were noticeable even to the Fx Grind some years later. Something about the shafts or the bore depths but old MB's were very stout to flex compared to post 80's variants. My schtick has always been to keep lofts relatively the same. Been that way since 1988, I'm loosening up a bit with the VR Pro II at 47*, lol, but littles has changed.

If you happen to pull an older shaft look closely at the tip end--- The walls of the shaft itself are thicker--- Manufacturing processes and alloys have changed over the years--- Good example ( from my knowledge) the walls of a 60s Pro Pel 2 are a lot thicker than say a modern S-300. As far as I know the early Rams were the first to use frequency matched technology

  • Like 2

Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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14 hours ago, miamistomp said:

 dual wedges used to be popular

  first one i had was like this- they were great for pitches but not great for a full shot

 

Image 01 - MacGregor Tourney Double Trouble REO.MD Pitching Sand Wedge Steel Pw Mcgregor SW

I think I have one of those still---- The Dual Sole I was talking about had a split down the middle of the sole and was marked "Macgregor D. S.---- The Wilson I mentioned looked to be a copy-- In fact when I spotted the Wilson at GW in the barrel I thought at first it was a Mac DS. Like I said before the Wilson did not sit well for me toe wise at address--- Yeah I could have rounded the toe more with a grinder to suit me but it was too nice of a wedge to modify so I gave it to a Wilson Guru that would love and appreciate it more--- Besides I have enough wedges modified or stock that I did not need to modify it and mess it up

  • Like 2

Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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5 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Yep that is what the one I have is at 50.5*--- Ping for some reason always had those 1/2* loft thing going on

I think Ping just likes to be a bit cocky and give the impression that their engineering is so tight that they measure in 1/10ths. When in reality their tolerances are at least a degree either way.  

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Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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4 hours ago, miamistomp said:

 The Wilson R20 is still one of my favorite wedges

  Beautiful shape to it and doesn't dig like some of the older square edged wedges

 

35.75 IN WILSON BECU R20 GENE SARAZEN SPECIAL WEDGE GOLF ...

The Sarazen version of the R20 was quite good but I preferred the reissued R90

r90.jpg

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TXG Custom King Cobra F9 9.5* , Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
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TXG Custom Cobra King Ltd. 5-wood 17.5*, Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom T. Made SIM Max 7-wood, Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
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4 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

I think Ping just likes to be a bit cocky and give the impression that their engineering is so tight that they measure in 1/10ths. When in reality their tolerances are at least a degree either way.  

You must have seen a bad example set.  I spent three days at Ping's HQ in Phoenix and saw nothing happening there that would produce that kind of QC problem. I've owned over eight sets of Ping irons and all were spot on.

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TXG Custom King Cobra F9 9.5* , Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom King Cobra F9 14.5*, Accra FX 140 2.0 M3
TXG Custom Cobra King Ltd. 5-wood 17.5*, Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom T. Made SIM Max 7-wood, Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom Mizuno CLK 23*, Tensei Red CK 60 R
TXG Custom Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal 6-pw, 1* up, Recoil E460 R + 1/2"
TXG Custom Mizuno T20, 50/07, 56/10, 60/07, Nippon 950H Neo
TXG Custom PXG Brandon, 34.5"
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5 hours ago, rgk5 said:

You must have seen a bad example set.  I spent three days at Ping's HQ in Phoenix and saw nothing happening there that would produce that kind of QC problem. I've owned over eight sets of Ping irons and all were spot on.

I have owned 5 sets of Ping irons, great clubs, the specs are usually pretty tight, however all OEM's have tolerances.  So does Ping and they state it on their website.  My I3 irons I ordered from the factory as green dots, did not arrive as green dots, they were closer to black when put in a L/L machine.  My other sets have been pretty close, although I have to admit I did not have every club tested.  I did have a L-wedge once that was off quite a bit. 

 

From the specification page:

 

NOTES

  • Lie angle is based on Black Color Code at standard length.
  • Power Spec Loft is a fitting option for players looking to boost their iron distance or decrease spin to hit a desired trajectory window. The Power Spec is a custom-designed loft configuration that delivers a power boost in a calculated fashion without sacrificing the integrity of the club’s design.
  • Club bounce angles will vary slightly if ordered with non-standard loft specs.
  • Standard swingweights for graphite-shafted clubs are 1 to 2 points lighter than shown, depending on shaft flex.
  • Achievable swingweights depend on shaft, length and grip combinations.
  • These are design specifications that may vary due to manufacturing tolerances.
  • Available in left- and right-handed models.
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Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/21/2021 at 11:30 PM, EmperorPenguin said:

For those of you guys who may remember: when did the pitching wedge bump down to 48 degrees, and who was responsible for starting that trend?

 

Resurrecting this thread to comment on the original question (above)...

 

In another thread, Joe S shared a catalog page showing Mizuno MS-3, MS-4 and MS-5 irons.  The specs were listed there, showing the MS-3 and MS-4 with a 48* PW.

 

The MS-3 was introduced in 1984, per the Maltby Club ID Guide, with the MS-4 and MS-5 being introduced in 1985.

 

I've not seen any clubs earlier with a PW at 48*, so this may well be the answer.  🙂

 

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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: Original One 11.5* (tuned down), NV75 X -or- SpeedZone 10.5*, Aldila ProtoPype 80S, <44" TBD

3w: King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 X
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour 2h or 3h, NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TaylorMade TP5, Chrome Soft custom TruVis

GripMaster Roo or Kidd leather grips

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9 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Resurrecting this thread to comment on the original question (above)...

 

In another thread, Joe S shared a catalog page showing Mizuno MS-3, MS-4 and MS-5 irons.  The specs were listed there, showing the MS-3 and MS-4 with a 48* PW.

 

The MS-3 was introduced in 1984, per the Maltby Club ID Guide, with the MS-4 and MS-5 being introduced in 1985.

 

I've not seen any clubs earlier with a PW at 48*, so this may well be the answer.  🙂

 

Good job, man!  Does the Maltby Club ID Guide gives all the specs for every model created?

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13 minutes ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Good job, man!  Does the Maltby Club ID Guide gives all the specs for every model created?

 

The book doesn't have much for specs, maybe occasionally mentioned on drivers.  The specs I mentioned for the Mizuno sets were actually from a catalog page shared by Brother @Joe S in another post.

 

  • Like 1

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: Original One 11.5* (tuned down), NV75 X -or- SpeedZone 10.5*, Aldila ProtoPype 80S, <44" TBD

3w: King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 X
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour 2h or 3h, NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TaylorMade TP5, Chrome Soft custom TruVis

GripMaster Roo or Kidd leather grips

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When I took up golf in 1991, 50' and 52' PW were still popular, but 48' was showing up more and more.  Though 60' LW was out in tour bags, it was not commonly seen at LGS quite yet.  Back then MacGregor had a custom club build program, in early 2k they built 2i-LW set of blades for me.  My PW was 48' but 50' was an option, and club lofts were accordingly, it included a 56 SW & 60' LW in the set. 

 

When I took up the game in 1991, my first set of clubs were Ping Zing 3-PW with 47' PW.  Ping offered LW at 57ish, but didn't buy one.   Then Ping Zing lofts were seen as strong lofts.  What hasn't changed quite yet are companies like Vokey, his PW is still 48? 

 

Who started the move, haven't a clue. 

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On 9/23/2021 at 12:42 PM, rgk5 said:

The Sarazen version of the R20 was quite good but I preferred the reissued R90

r90.jpg

I had a repop R-90 that I absolutely loved that I wore slap out had the face concave and the sole so worn you could barely make out Wilson on it. I do remember I bought it in the late 80s out of a barrell at Martins Golf here on a beach trip brand new. Had the pyratone steel shaft. Oh I tried to replace it several times and never could find one that hit like that one. I will add I did not do any modifications just put it in the bag and played it. Around the area I played in the brick mason type sand which was grainy and course wore out wedges plus some of those grainy rocky lies around the greens was rough too. A few years back I found one at GW in good shape with a rotten Winn grip. Regripped it and the magic was not there. Gave it to Old School Rocker ( Randy) when he came up to visit me along with the Staff DS I mentioned before. I also gave him one of my JPs I had bent and weighted up for me and last I heard from him he loved the JP best of all. 

Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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As a slow swinging almost Senior my approach distances are 107 yards for 32* 7I, 67 yards 49* AW, and 37 yards for *54 SW.

With a 22* 4* for driving and a putter I can play with 5 clubs. 

 

I made my first successful under the tree shot with the 4I last week.  Close enough to the green for an easy chip and putt.

Edited by ShortGolfer
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2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

I had a repop R-90 that I absolutely loved that I wore slap out had the face concave and the sole so worn you could barely make out Wilson on it. I do remember I bought it in the late 80s out of a barrell at Martins Golf here on a beach trip brand new. Had the pyratone steel shaft. Oh I tried to replace it several times and never could find one that hit like that one. I will add I did not do any modifications just put it in the bag and played it. Around the area I played in the brick mason type sand which was grainy and course wore out wedges plus some of those grainy rocky lies around the greens was rough too. A few years back I found one at GW in good shape with a rotten Winn grip. Regripped it and the magic was not there. Gave it to Old School Rocker ( Randy) when he came up to visit me along with the Staff DS I mentioned before. I also gave him one of my JPs I had bent and weighted up for me and last I heard from him he loved the JP best of all. 

The JP models were gold.  I had a couple when I lived in Oklahoma.

  • Like 1
TXG Custom King Cobra F9 9.5* , Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom King Cobra F9 14.5*, Accra FX 140 2.0 M3
TXG Custom Cobra King Ltd. 5-wood 17.5*, Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom T. Made SIM Max 7-wood, Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom Mizuno CLK 23*, Tensei Red CK 60 R
TXG Custom Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal 6-pw, 1* up, Recoil E460 R + 1/2"
TXG Custom Mizuno T20, 50/07, 56/10, 60/07, Nippon 950H Neo
TXG Custom PXG Brandon, 34.5"
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56 minutes ago, rgk5 said:

The JP models were gold.  I had a couple when I lived in Oklahoma.

I still have a couple one I played for years that the bottom grooves are slap worn out but use it in vintage play some. I rotate out wedges in vintage play because I am blessed to have so many different Vintage wedges all of them I am fond of

  • Like 1

Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW  Ping Eye2 + Cleveland wedge shaft 51* 

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag Old TM R-7 stand freebie works good on range and cart

Balls Some kind of Srixon since I have won so many-- Hey new freebies hit good

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/1/2021 at 9:16 AM, NRJyzr said:

 

Resurrecting this thread to comment on the original question (above)...

 

In another thread, Joe S shared a catalog page showing Mizuno MS-3, MS-4 and MS-5 irons.  The specs were listed there, showing the MS-3 and MS-4 with a 48* PW.

 

The MS-3 was introduced in 1984, per the Maltby Club ID Guide, with the MS-4 and MS-5 being introduced in 1985.

 

I've not seen any clubs earlier with a PW at 48*, so this may well be the answer.  🙂

 

 

Adding something for Brother @EmperorPenguin...

 

In another thread asking about MS-1, Brother @No_Catchy_Nickname shared a site showing the specs of the MS-1, which had a 48* PW.  This set appears to have been released in 1981 or so.

 

This might be the Final Answer.   🤔

 

Edited by NRJyzr
  • Like 1

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: Original One 11.5* (tuned down), NV75 X -or- SpeedZone 10.5*, Aldila ProtoPype 80S, <44" TBD

3w: King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 X
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour 2h or 3h, NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional, TaylorMade TP5, Chrome Soft custom TruVis

GripMaster Roo or Kidd leather grips

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