Maybe a rant, maybe a question...IDK?

[Bigjim1022]

This summer and last I have been able to play more golf than in years past.  Last spring I went and got fitted for irons, Srixon 785's with PXLZ 6.5 shafts.  I really like them a lot, they look fabulous and feel pretty darn good too.  A little about my game, play to about a 10 handicap and my weakness is my irons and wedges.  I tend to not rotate my hips through impact and stall causing a flip on top of an early release-at least I think that's what its called.  My impact position looks a lot like my setup position.  I saw my handicap get as low as an 8 this summer after a good stretch of chipping and putting.  Over the last 2 months, actually since 7/11, my handicap and risen along with my scores.  I know the date exactly because that is the date I shot my best score ever, 77.   As things go worse with my swing I decided to do an online swing analysis/lesson and the instructor confirmed what I thought to be true with my swing.  No hip rotation and early release.  

 

I'm trying hard to stay patient but there is a nagging part in the back of my brain that says, maybe more forgiving irons would help.  Even when playing well my iron play was just ok at best.  I never hit a lot of greens.  I KNOW its my swing but I also know that only playing 18 or 27 holes a week and only practicing a little (due to work and other commitments) isn't helping either.  I ALSO know that something like the supposedly more forgiving Zx5 line isnt THAT much more forgiving.  

 

Soooo...talk me off the ledge or heck just share your similar stories!  

[ShortGolfer]

As a beginner learning via trial and error I know a lot about my swing. I believe in target practice.  Either hitting a tree in my yard or a small Callaway chipping net.

 

If I use my arms only, like in short chip shots the ball misses right.  

 

If I rotate my hips the ball goes consistently straight. 

 

If I use a lefty club it is reversed and the ball goes left using my arms.  I need to rotate my hips to hit consistently straight.

 

I know enough not to fall into the trap of using just my arms and compensating for the early release.

 

If I understand you with the early release an SGI or GI club isn't going to fix that.

Edited September 22, 2021 by ShortGolfer

[Bigjim1022]

16 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

As a beginner learning via trial and error I know a lot about my swing. I believe in target practice.  Either hitting a tree in my yard or a small Callaway chipping net.

 

If I use my arms only, like in short chip shots the ball misses right.  

 

If I rotate my hips the ball goes consistently straight. 

 

If I use a lefty club it is reversed and the ball goes left using my arms.  I need to rotate my hips to hit consistently straight.

 

I know enough not to fall into the trap of using just my arms and compensating for the early release.

 

If I understand you with the early release an SGI or GI club isn't going to fix that.

Yes and that’s what I keep telling myself too…but there is the nagging club ho in me 😂

[animalgolfs]

It will get worse before you see the benefits.....patience and dedication will determine-not new shiny things

Edited September 22, 2021 by animalgolfs

[MattM97]

Golf is a sport with ebbs and flows, sometimes you suddenly lose all feeling in your swing and you need to get it back.

 

Last year I had an "ah-ha" moment and shot my career best, then promptly shot my next 2-3 rounds over 100 until it came back around again. 

 

This year I swear there was a 1 month period where I forgot how to chip, I'd duff everything. Would new wedges fix that? Possibly but my wedge game came back stronger than ever. It's a weird game that we love and hate. 

[grochol17]

I think a useful question to ask yourself is, "what are my mishits with my irons?"  In other words, do you hit a lot of shots fat or thin?  Are you all over the face, but generally straight?  Do you hit the center of the club face a lot, but you are offline?  When your shots hit the green, do they run off the back?  

 

Answering these questions will help you figure out if an iron change might make a big difference in your game or if lessons/practice are going to be more useful.

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, Bigjim1022 said:

I'm trying hard to stay patient but there is a nagging part in the back of my brain that says, maybe more forgiving irons would help. 

 

"more forgiving" irons generally tend to mean:

 

1) higher launching - but if you release early, you're likely delivering a lot of dynamic loft already so probably do not need that type of help.

 

2) improve consistency of results for off center hits.    Which leads to the question - how consistent is your face impact location?  Use foot powder spray on the face to check.   If the delivery is inconsistent (face/path) but the face impact location is still pretty good, then you wont benefit much from a more forgiving iron.   if the face impact location is inconsistent you may or may not get some minor improvement to the results.   Just realize that the head can only do so much.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Stuart_G

[HugoBear]

Good points above.

[MtlJeff]

More forgiving clubs won't improve your scores THAT much if they do at all. And this is coming from someone who really likes forgiving clubs.

 

A lot of the game is off the tee or on greens, or hitting 9/PW or higher into greens. More forgiving clubs won't do squat for you here.

 

Unless you are hitting like 13 different 4 and 5 irons a round (if so, maybe move up a tee box or stop playing chambers bay) there's only so many times a round a more forgiving club will help.

 

By all means if you are uncomfortable with your irons , get new ones. This is WRX after all---Just don't expect to become a 5 overnight

[Bigjim1022]

Thank you all, I knew it was mostly my swing and to @Stuart_G's point my face impact is generally good, though lately impact has been heel side which is new to me.  It had previously been toe side.  I know its mostly my swing and frankly I'm not sure that they z5's are all that more forgiving.  I definitely don't need higher launch.  My ball when I hit the green on good strikes is usually within a few feet of the ball mark, even have spun some back this year as its been really wet so the greens have been pretty soft. 

[Bigjim1022]

1 minute ago, MtlJeff said:

More forgiving clubs won't improve your scores THAT much if they do at all. And this is coming from someone who really likes forgiving clubs.

 

A lot of the game is off the tee or on greens, or hitting 9/PW or higher into greens. More forgiving clubs won't do squat for you here.

 

Unless you are hitting like 13 different 4 and 5 irons a round (if so, maybe move up a tee box or stop playing chambers bay) there's only so many times a round a more forgiving club will help.

 

By all means if you are uncomfortable with your irons , get new ones. This is WRX after all---Just don't expect to become a 5 overnight

Actually now that I think about it my crap scores coincide with bad iron striking but also some of the worst driving I've had all summer too.  It's been a rough couple of months for my game...

[MtlJeff]

1 minute ago, Bigjim1022 said:

Actually now that I think about it my crap scores coincide with bad iron striking but also some of the worst driving I've had all summer too.  It's been a rough couple of months for my game...

 

I regularly switch between irons just because i'm insane. But in an average round i might notice 1-2 shots where say, my Ping G410 truly did something another club wouldn't have. At the end of the day i am a 0.8 index right now so i hit it pretty well

 

But i had a 190yd approach to an elevated flat green last Sunday that i put to 6-7 feet. I couldn't have hit that shot with a players club--no chance. The Ping allowed me to hit it probably 20% higher in the air than like an Apex pro or something would have and land soft so it wouldn't bounce off the green. That's the only shot of the day that i couldn't have done with something else.

 

Most shots with 8-LW won't make much difference. And again, if you miss a few fairways and have to punch out or something, that's another area irons wouldn't have changed much

 

But i mean--Get new irons. LOL Just because. That's what i do!

[ChipNRun]

p 

1 hour ago, Bigjim1022 said:

after a good stretch of chipping and putting.

 

Possibly you need a good stretch, but not greenside. Possibly you need a workout routine that increases core stability and back flexibility. I don't mean this as a personal slam - in modern USA lots of people are chairborne rangers in their work routine. They sit at a computer or sit in meetings most of the day. The CR label comes from a golf fitness instructor who sees lots of people with poor back flexibility. The glutes are strong from getting up and down from the chair, but back is sometimes stiff and the core muscles (around stomach and waist) are not that stable.

 

1 hour ago, Bigjim1022 said:

...  As things go worse with my swing I decided to do an online swing analysis/lesson and the instructor confirmed what I thought to be true with my swing.  No hip rotation and early release.  

 

I'm trying hard to stay patient but there is a nagging part in the back of my brain that says, maybe more forgiving irons would help. ...  I ALSO know that something like the supposedly more forgiving Zx5 line isnt THAT much more forgiving.

 

No hip rotation ... again, think back and core. Sounds like you may be sliding back at takeaway rather than rotating. I have an arthritic right hip; my gym routine includes resistance, flexibility and cardio. Despite this - and the fact I may forget to go the the gym several days in a row - I have better rotation some days than others. And, the early release comes if I'm trying to muscle my way through the stiffness.

 

Besides the gym, some exercises can be done in your back yard or even indoors. The Wall Street Journal featured a selection of these.

Eight Exercises for Golf

 

Finally, more forgiving irons... your current irons will be more forgiving if you rotate properly.

 

[PixlPutterman]

This video greatly improved my swing, took me off the mentality of trying to rotate me hips (which made me want to use my mid section muscles) and had me start focusing on driving through my front leg, which makes you clear the hips.

Was a game changer for me.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by PixlPutterman

[SylvesterLundgren]

5 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

p 

 

Possibly you need a good stretch, but not greenside. Possibly you need a workout routine that increases core stability and back flexibility. I don't mean this as a personal slam - in modern USA lots of people are chairborne rangers in their work routine. They sit at a computer or sit in meetings most of the day. The CR label comes from a golf fitness instructor who sees lots of people with poor back flexibility. The glutes are strong from getting up and down from the chair, but back is sometimes stiff and the core muscles (around stomach and waist) are not that stable.

 

 

No hip rotation ... again, think back and core. Sounds like you may be sliding back at takeaway rather than rotating. I have an arthritic right hip; my gym routine includes resistance, flexibility and cardio. Despite this - and the fact I may forget to go the the gym several days in a row - I have better rotation some days than others. And, the early release comes if I'm trying to muscle my way through the stiffness.

 

Besides the gym, some exercises can be done in your back yard or even indoors. The Wall Street Journal featured a selection of these.

Eight Exercises for Golf

 

Finally, more forgiving irons... your current irons will be more forgiving if you rotate properly.

 

Work on wellness is what this man is saying.... 

[Bigjim1022]

8 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

p 

 

Possibly you need a good stretch, but not greenside. Possibly you need a workout routine that increases core stability and back flexibility. I don't mean this as a personal slam - in modern USA lots of people are chairborne rangers in their work routine. They sit at a computer or sit in meetings most of the day. The CR label comes from a golf fitness instructor who sees lots of people with poor back flexibility. The glutes are strong from getting up and down from the chair, but back is sometimes stiff and the core muscles (around stomach and waist) are not that stable.

 

 

No hip rotation ... again, think back and core. Sounds like you may be sliding back at takeaway rather than rotating. I have an arthritic right hip; my gym routine includes resistance, flexibility and cardio. Despite this - and the fact I may forget to go the the gym several days in a row - I have better rotation some days than others. And, the early release comes if I'm trying to muscle my way through the stiffness.

 

Besides the gym, some exercises can be done in your back yard or even indoors. The Wall Street Journal featured a selection of these.

Eight Exercises for Golf

 

Finally, more forgiving irons... your current irons will be more forgiving if you rotate properly.

 

 

1 minute ago, SylvesterLundgren said:

Work on wellness is what this man is saying.... 

This x 1000%!  Prior to Covid lockdown I was in the gym a lot working on cardio and strength and I got much better on the course.  Fast forward to lockdown and I lost my mojo with the gym routine and frankly have had a hard time getting it back!   I dropped something like 40lbs and was eating way better.  I still eat well but getting back to the gym has been tough.  And I am 100% an office warrior at my desk all day staring at a computer.  My back frequently is stiff at the end of the day but I’ve tried to get away from the desk more often and utilize a stand up work station.

 

thank you for the link to the workout!

[B.Easy]

You can't Ho yourself into a good game.  You want to Ho around for the right reasons! Desperation ho'ing is the worst.  Get some help with your swing/strike, get things trending in the right direction, and THEN get your ho on again.

 

This is the best possible advice on the internet. 

[ChipNRun]

Followup on Mike Malaska's video clip on not rotating hips...

 

A stiff low back and right hip means I'm sliding back rather than rotating my shoulders on takeaway.

 

I tend to spin my hips when I'm stiff and not staying down in the stance on follow-through. This means I'm not working my right (back shoulder) down and through the ball on a diagonal plane. This standing up leads to a spinny hip motion that leaves ball out to left or right, with loss of power.

[SylvesterLundgren]

40 minutes ago, Bigjim1022 said:

 

This x 1000%!  Prior to Covid lockdown I was in the gym a lot working on cardio and strength and I got much better on the course.  Fast forward to lockdown and I lost my mojo with the gym routine and frankly have had a hard time getting it back!   I dropped something like 40lbs and was eating way better.  I still eat well but getting back to the gym has been tough.  And I am 100% an office warrior at my desk all day staring at a computer.  My back frequently is stiff at the end of the day but I’ve tried to get away from the desk more often and utilize a stand up work station.

 

thank you for the link to the workout!

I work in production so I’m standing most of the day. I’ll hit some lunges or body weight squats just to keep my back from feeling tight and my hips getting stiff. I look at it as the difference from feeling tight 4hours in to feeling that 8hrs in.  It’s not a cure but it does alleviate that stiff low back/hip section. It’s really the small maintenance habits that keeps it all going 

[TwistedSister]

Ebbs and flows.  Started the year with a course cap of 3.  At one point not more than a 6 weeks ago I was a 5.  Then in the last three weeks I have had three really good rounds at the same time that some of the stinkers fell off.  Now I have a course cap of 2  with an index of 2.7  the lowest I have been in my life.  BTW I'll be 65 Saturday and except for two laid sods and a three putt I would have shot 67 last Saturday. 

[Kale_m]

More forgiving irons are not going to fix a swing issue. 
 

Your irons are fine. Get lessons 

[jwb10]

3 hours ago, Kale_m said:

More forgiving irons are not going to fix a swing issue. 
 

Your irons are fine. Get lessons 

 

 

 

heretic

 

 

 

[BallerNate]

@Bigjim1022 I gamed Z 785 irons this season, and they definitely feel amazing. But I did find them extremely punishing on mishits, and there are a couple of posts on here about how low the M.O.I. is on them compared to other irons.

 

The ZX5’s are really nice, and I have them now in the 4 and 5-irons, but the ZX7’s are unicorns!! I’m sure you’ve seen some of the buzz about them, but I would recommend to test them out somehow if you can. Coming from the Z 785’s the improvement in forgiveness is massive, but the feel and control is still just as good!

[sociojeje]

Not many can handle px 6.5 and I assume you have tremendous power and speed. If this is the case, you can swing slow and easy and only think about releasing the club to the target. You may lose some distance at first but I don't think it matters  much as you are a strong golfer. Don't even think about hitting the ball but just graze the grass and release the club to the target. My handicap is just a bit higher than you but hope this helps! 

[Bigjim1022]

1 hour ago, BallerNate said:

@Bigjim1022 I gamed Z 785 irons this season, and they definitely feel amazing. But I did find them extremely punishing on mishits, and there are a couple of posts on here about how low the M.O.I. is on them compared to other irons.

 

The ZX5’s are really nice, and I have them now in the 4 and 5-irons, but the ZX7’s are unicorns!! I’m sure you’ve seen some of the buzz about them, but I would recommend to test them out somehow if you can. Coming from the Z 785’s the improvement in forgiveness is massive, but the feel and control is still just as good!

I was afraid somebody would chime in with this info!  I briefly looked at them and decided they didn’t look THAT much different than the 785’s so I avoided reading further about them so as not to be tempted 😂  They look really sweet too!

 

Great info, thank you!

Edited September 23, 2021 by Bigjim1022

[Bigjim1022]

1 hour ago, sociojeje said:

Not many can handle px 6.5 and I assume you have tremendous power and speed. If this is the case, you can swing slow and easy and only think about releasing the club to the target. You may lose some distance at first but I don't think it matters  much as you are a strong golfer. Don't even think about hitting the ball but just graze the grass and release the club to the target. My handicap is just a bit higher than you but hope this helps! 

Yeah PX 6.5 were too much for me too, I was fit into the PX LZ 6.5, they seem a good fit.  I have such a hard time with release.  I thought I was releasing until I saw my swing on video and really what I was doing frequently was flipping at impact!

[BallerNate]

2 minutes ago, Bigjim1022 said:

I was afraid somebody would chime in with this info!  I briefly looked at them and decided they didn’t look THAT much different than the 785’s so I avoided reading further about them so as not to be tempted 😂

 

Great info, thank you!

Haha…sorry, but I can almost guarantee that if you test out the ZX7’s it will be love at first strike!! 😍😍

[sociojeje]

1 minute ago, Bigjim1022 said:

Yeah PX 6.5 were too much for me too, I was fit into the PX LZ 6.5, they seem a good fit.  I have such a hard time with release.  I thought I was releasing until I saw my swing on video and really what I was doing frequently was flipping at impact!

Perhaps, then, try the lightest and softest shaft you can handle! A shaft with noticeable kick (such as modus 120, elevate tour, and LZ) surely helps timing your release! For releasing, I loved Shawn Clement videos on youtube. You are already a very good golfer with power and speed and I'm sure you will do great!!! 

[Bigjim1022]

26 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Haha…sorry, but I can almost guarantee that if you test out the ZX7’s it will be love at first strike!! 😍😍

Yeah so I was just checking them out on Srixons website 🤦🏻‍♂️😂

[Flip4000]

I had the same issues early release and inconsistent iron and wedge play. I have played golf like this for 3-5 years with no improvement despite how many videos I watched online ( shocking i know).  

 

Last year I decided to bite the bullet and sign up for a lesson plan. I started March 2020, we dove right into my flipping issues and it it led to one of the most frustrating years of golf I had ever had. Nothing is harder than getting glimpses of a future that you just cant reach. I would have rounds where I drove the ball well, but couldn't hit irons or rounds where I hit almost every green, but the driver or putter was cold. Really frustrating but I stuck with it. 

 

This year I came out of the gates firing and have shot my best score 4 times this year and went from a mid teens handicap to high single digits. I also almost won league MVP too but missed out by .06 points but was able to help my team to a league championship win. I too when I started lessons believed my equipment was at least part of the issue and turns out it was, but the key to improvement was fixing the swing then tweaking the equipment as I improved.

 

I am really excited to see where my golf game goes from. There is nothing better than improving to the point where your friends cannot help but admit you are getting better. I really think investing in lessons would be the way to go. It's gonna be rough, but stick with it