Ryder Cup US Course Selection

[TM_HOYER]

Why does PGA of America keep picking courses that leave the US team at a disadvantage? The European team selects courses that are part of Euro Tour and have weather European’s are used to. The PGA of America keeps picking courses that most PGA Tour players have played as much as Euro players and have weather that is more like Europe. The American courses should be be in warm weather, have Bermuda grass, and run PGA Tour events. We are talking TPC Scottsdale, Bay Hill, Innisbrook, Quail Hollow, PGA West, East Lake, and PGA National.  You should never see long sleeves on anyone. It is like the PGA of America considers the Ryder Cup as a income generating event and do not care if the Americans win.

 

The Euro Tour smartly played the Euro Tour event where the next Ryder Cup will be held opposite the Tour Championship, preventing top US players from playing the event. Let’s have the Ryder Cup at TPC Scottsdale. I would love to see the fan advantage the US would have especially at 15, 16, and 17.

[lazyjc4]

You see the difference between the PGA of America running the Ryder Cup, and the PGA Tour that runs the President's Cup.  The Ryder Cup will always be held at PGA Championship courses that the PGA of America has business relationships with.  The President's Cup will always be held at courses that have hosted tour events, that the Tour has business relationships with. 

Only way around the weather is to hold the Ryder Cup exclusively in the South, and that narrows the field down to only a handful of courses.  I'm sure the PGA of America wants to highlight/reward places that they've worked with before, regardless of location.

[King_Slender]

I don't think course has as much effect as course setup.  The Euro's crushed the US in PAris because they grew out the rough 290+ off the tee, making the bombers less effective.  

 

Take the Medinah year as an example - something as simple as the hole placement on #17 killed the Americans.  They were predominantly a team that drew the ball and Davis Love put the pin on the far right side of the green.  At the most critical juncture of the event - #17 on Sunday - Love gave the Americans a pin position that put them at a disadvanteage.  Unforgiveable, in my book.  

 

At Hazeltine, we put the pins in the middle of the green - the Euros criticized it as "boring" but it worked to the US advantage.  

[stinger_gc]

26 minutes ago, lazyjc4 said:

You see the difference between the PGA of America running the Ryder Cup, and the PGA Tour that runs the President's Cup.  The Ryder Cup will always be held at PGA Championship courses that the PGA of America has business relationships with.  The President's Cup will always be held at courses that have hosted tour events, that the Tour has business relationships with. 

Only way around the weather is to hold the Ryder Cup exclusively in the South, and that narrows the field down to only a handful of courses.  I'm sure the PGA of America wants to highlight/reward places that they've worked with before, regardless of location.

Exactly hit the nail on the head. If you look at the last 5 US Ryder Cup venues, they all hosted a PGA Championship at some point. Same thing with some all the upcoming venues for the US side: Bethpage, Hazeltine, Olympic Club, and Congressional (Olympic/Congressional will host it at some point).

[TM_HOYER]

In light of the comments, is it time the PGA Tour says to PGA of America we are taking full control of the Ryder Cup and we will provide you with X number of dollars from each Ryder Cup the PGA Tour runs? I was very disappointed when the Ryder Cup committee was created and the issue of course sites was not addressed. If we are playing in the US, we need to have the Ryder Cup at a course where the US team has home field advantage just like the Euro team does when it is held in Europe.

[BNGL]

24 minutes ago, TM_HOYER said:

In light of the comments, is it time the PGA Tour says to PGA of America we are taking full control of the Ryder Cup and we will provide you with X number of dollars from each Ryder Cup the PGA Tour runs? I was very disappointed when the Ryder Cup committee was created and the issue of course sites was not addressed. If we are playing in the US, we need to have the Ryder Cup at a course where the US team has home field advantage just like the Euro team does when it is held in Europe.

Highly unlikely the short folders of America will allow the Tour to take over their Golden goose. Granted they also make back from the PGA Championship, but I wouldn’t give it up if I was them.

[ChrisL52188]

Ryder Cup should be at Pine Valley. Imagine... 

[Abh159]

Call me crazy, but I don't ever remember weather being a major factor in any of the US hosted Ryder Cups. I mean the forecast for this weekend in Wisconsin is high-60s to mid-70s every day. I wouldn't really call that an advantage for either team. 

 

Plus, half or more of the Euro team lives in the US in Florida or Arizona so at this point they are more acclimated to that type of weather than say Ireland in October.

 

Although I wouldn't hate seeing the Ryder Cup somewhere in the southeast or southwest, there aren't really a ton of places you could do it that aren't regular tour stops. Maybe somewhere like Shoal Creek?? The Ryder Cup set up time is about the same as that of a major so it would be really hard to host it at a place like Bay Hill, Sawgrass, TPC, or any other yearly tour stop.

[TM_HOYER]

9 minutes ago, BNGL said:

Highly unlikely the short folders of America will allow the Tour to take over their Golden goose. Granted they also make back from the PGA Championship, but I wouldn’t give it up if I was them.

That is why I mentioned that the PGA Tour would getting a large amount of X number of dollars. That golden goose provides a lot of money to grow the game and support teaching pros.

[imakaveli]

They have organized Edinbourgh/Paris/Rome/Adare to mess with the wrx weather forecasters 😎

[gvogel]

12 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

Call me crazy, but I don't ever remember weather being a major factor in any of the US hosted Ryder Cups. I mean the forecast for this weekend in Wisconsin is high-60s to mid-70s every day. I wouldn't really call that an advantage for either team. 

 

Plus, half or more of the Euro team lives in the US in Florida or Arizona so at this point they are more acclimated to that type of weather than say Ireland in October.

 

Although I wouldn't hate seeing the Ryder Cup somewhere in the southeast or southwest, there aren't really a ton of places you could do it that aren't regular tour stops. Maybe somewhere like Shoal Creek?? The Ryder Cup set up time is about the same as that of a major so it would be really hard to host it at a place like Bay Hill, Sawgrass, TPC, or any other yearly tour stop.

I see nothing wrong with playing the Ryder Cup in the US in 60* sweater weather, or worse.  Remember, golf originated in Scotland.

[me05501]

The fact is that very few clubs are ready, willing and able to hold an event like the Ryder Cup.

 

Even the best clubs any of us have played would find it quite challenging to host a U.S. Am, let alone a major. 

 

Here's a partial list of the requirements:

• A championship-worthy course that can be stretched to 7,500 yards and conditioned to perfection at the precise time of year the event will be held
• A practice area suitable for tour players, possibly dozens of them at a time
• A reasonably large locker room
• Additional grounds to give over to tour vans, event staff, player support vehicles (gym/medical/hospitality), broadcast infrastructure, etc.
• Room for corporate hospitality and vendor tents
• Nearby luxury accommodations for the teams and their entourages
• An incredible permanent course staff, several notches above the usual
• An army of local volunteers
• A membership that is sold on hosting the event and willing to do without their course for a month before the event and maybe a week or two after 
• A rock-solid plan for off-site parking and getting spectators to and from the property

 

These events are incredibly big productions. I don't blame the PGA of America for going with venues that have done big events before. Better than taking chances. 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by me05501

[JaNelson38]

2 hours ago, TM_HOYER said:

Why does PGA of America keep picking courses that leave the US team at a disadvantage? The European team selects courses that are part of Euro Tour and have weather European’s are used to. The PGA of America keeps picking courses that most PGA Tour players have played as much as Euro players and have weather that is more like Europe. The American courses should be be in warm weather, have Bermuda grass, and run PGA Tour events. We are talking TPC Scottsdale, Bay Hill, Innisbrook, Quail Hollow, PGA West, East Lake, and PGA National.  You should never see long sleeves on anyone. It is like the PGA of America considers the Ryder Cup as a income generating event and do not care if the Americans win.

 

The Euro Tour smartly played the Euro Tour event where the next Ryder Cup will be held opposite the Tour Championship, preventing top US players from playing the event. Let’s have the Ryder Cup at TPC Scottsdale. I would love to see the fan advantage the US would have especially at 15, 16, and 17.

 

Um...the Ryder Cup sole purpose is an income generating event.  Its an exhibition.  It has no bearing on player legacies, player rankings, earnings, etc.  It doesn't 'count'.  All its there for is entertainment for the viewers, a week's worth of kissing butt to corporate sponsors, and rewards for PGA of America members.  And generating money from ticket sales, merchandise/concessions, and sponsorships.  The golf is secondary to all of those things.

 

I'm sure the PGA of A would liike the bonus of Americans winning on their own soil, but I think you're 100% correct that they don't really care if they win.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by JaNelson38

[JaNelson38]

25 minutes ago, me05501 said:

The fact is that very few clubs are ready, willing and able to hold an event like the Ryder Club.

 

Even the best clubs any of us have played would find it quite challenging to host a U.S. Am, let alone a major. 

 

Here's a partial list of the requirements:

• A championship-worthy course that can be stretched to 7,500 yards and conditioned to perfection at the precise time of year the event will be held
• A practice area suitable for tour players, possibly dozens of them at a time
• A reasonably large locker room
• Additional grounds to give over to tour vans, event staff, player support vehicles (gym/medical/hospitality), broadcast infrastructure, etc.
• Room for corporate hospitality and vendor tents
• Nearby luxury accommodations for the teams and their entourages
• An incredible permanent course staff, several notches above the usual
• An army of local volunteers
• A membership that is sold on hosting the event and willing to do without their course for a month before the event and maybe a week or two after 
• A rock-solid plan for off-site parking and getting spectators to and from the property

 

These events are incredibly big productions. I don't blame the PGA of America for going with venues that have done big events before. Better than taking chances. 

 

 

This is correct.  Its no different than the USGA picking sites for the US Open....there are only so many places that can do it and are willing to do it.

 

The infrastructure alone eliminates probably 95% of courses in America that could host a Ryder Cup or an event of this magnitude.  Here in Wisconsin, from a golfing standpoint, we have tons of dynamite courses that are good enough to be tournament-worthy. - we see that from the fact that the Champions Tour and LPGA are regular in the state, and the USGA is bringing the US Senior Open here in a couple years.  But Whistling Straits is literally the only course that realistically do it to this large of a scale.

[munichop]

I agree on the PGA of America just chasing the dollars.  Remember the PGA of America controls the cup in the US.  The European Tour controls the cup in Europe.  They pick sites that give them them best chance to win.  The US picks sites that give them the best chance to make money.  

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, TM_HOYER said:

Why does PGA of America keep picking courses that leave the US team at a disadvantage? The European team selects courses that are part of Euro Tour and have weather European’s are used to. The PGA of America keeps picking courses that most PGA Tour players have played as much as Euro players and have weather that is more like Europe. The American courses should be be in warm weather, have Bermuda grass, and run PGA Tour events. We are talking TPC Scottsdale, Bay Hill, Innisbrook, Quail Hollow, PGA West, East Lake, and PGA National.  You should never see long sleeves on anyone. It is like the PGA of America considers the Ryder Cup as a income generating event and do not care if the Americans win.

 

The Euro Tour smartly played the Euro Tour event where the next Ryder Cup will be held opposite the Tour Championship, preventing top US players from playing the event. Let’s have the Ryder Cup at TPC Scottsdale. I would love to see the fan advantage the US would have especially at 15, 16, and 17.

I agree.   They’re acting like they expect to all go around whistling straights at 6-7 under each round.  Lol. Won’t happen.   They’re playing right to European hands. All they have to do is survive and wait for the blowups .  

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

Call me crazy, but I don't ever remember weather being a major factor in any of the US hosted Ryder Cups. I mean the forecast for this weekend in Wisconsin is high-60s to mid-70s every day. I wouldn't really call that an advantage for either team. 

 

Plus, half or more of the Euro team lives in the US in Florida or Arizona so at this point they are more acclimated to that type of weather than say Ireland in October.

 

Although I wouldn't hate seeing the Ryder Cup somewhere in the southeast or southwest, there aren't really a ton of places you could do it that aren't regular tour stops. Maybe somewhere like Shoal Creek?? The Ryder Cup set up time is about the same as that of a major so it would be really hard to host it at a place like Bay Hill, Sawgrass, TPC, or any other yearly tour stop.

I don’t know. On the first tee this morning it was dreary.  Wind howling and all in jackets.  Looked like a euro tour event.   Meanwhile the USA guys ( some ) had stocking caps on as of snow were on the ground.  Better hope the sun comes out.  

[BombinJim]

27 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

It has no bearing on player legacies

Pretty sure the Poulter, Montgomery, Kuchar, etc. fans would disagree

[King_Slender]

16 minutes ago, BombinJim said:

Pretty sure the Poulter, Montgomery, Kuchar, etc. fans would disagree

 

Kuchar?

[AZ_JHWK]

17 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

 

Kuchar?

I think you are forgetting he was considered the best Ping Pong player during his run of Ryder Cups.😉

[BombinJim]

37 minutes ago, King_Slender said:

Kuchar?

Yeah sorry not a good example as the others I mentioned but I do recall Kuch being viewed as somewhat of a good matchplay golfer and he did play in four RC’s.

[JaNelson38]

1 hour ago, BombinJim said:

Pretty sure the Poulter, Montgomery, Kuchar, etc. fans would disagree

 

 

All three of those guys would give up every Ryder Cup 'victory' for a major.

[JaNelson38]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I agree.   They’re acting like they expect to all go around whistling straights at 6-7 under each round.  Lol. Won’t happen.   They’re playing right to European hands. All they have to do is survive and wait for the blowups .  

 

At no point this weekend is the weather going to be like it is today or tomorrow.  Its supposed to be 72 and sunny on Sunday.

 

In any event, if this is so 'bad' for the Americans, why do Americans always play well in the Open Championship?   In this past Open, 6 of the top 11 were from the USA and the only 2 Euros in the top 11 were Rahm and McIntyre.

Edited September 22, 2021 by JaNelson38

[chigolfer1]

4 hours ago, King_Slender said:

I don't think course has as much effect as course setup.  The Euro's crushed the US in PAris because they grew out the rough 290+ off the tee, making the bombers less effective.  

 

Take the Medinah year as an example - something as simple as the hole placement on #17 killed the Americans.  They were predominantly a team that drew the ball and Davis Love put the pin on the far right side of the green.  At the most critical juncture of the event - #17 on Sunday - Love gave the Americans a pin position that put them at a disadvanteage.  Unforgiveable, in my book.  

 

At Hazeltine, we put the pins in the middle of the green - the Euros criticized it as "boring" but it worked to the US advantage.  

 

The home team captain decides on pin placement?  I honestly didn't know that.  

[chigolfer1]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t know. On the first tee this morning it was dreary.  Wind howling and all in jackets.  Looked like a euro tour event.   Meanwhile the USA guys ( some ) had stocking caps on as of snow were on the ground.  Better hope the sun comes out.  

 

The highs in Milwaukee this weekend are 76, 67 and 72.  They're playing in Wiscy in Sept., not January lol.

[bladehunter]

15 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

The highs in Milwaukee this weekend are 76, 67 and 72.  They're playing in Wiscy in Sept., not January lol.

I’m telling you what I saw on the coverage.  All in jackets. 

[bladehunter]

24 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

At no point this weekend is the weather going to be like it is today or tomorrow.  Its supposed to be 72 and sunny on Sunday.

 

In any event, if this is so 'bad' for the Americans, why do Americans always play well in the Open Championship?   In this past Open, 6 of the top 11 were from the USA and the only 2 Euros in the top 11 were Rahm and McIntyre.

They win when it’s a birdie fest.  They lose when it’s a tougher course and putts are required to tie.     We will see how it plays out.  You guys are still trying to use stroke play stats for a match play event.  Won’t work. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by bladehunter

[TM_HOYER]

34 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’m telling you what I saw on the coverage.  All in jackets. 

I saw the same thing. Bundled up in jackets and wearing wool hats. Euro weather not the warm weather that the US team is used to playing in.

[physasst]

39 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’m telling you what I saw on the coverage.  All in jackets. 

 

 

That just means they're weak....

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by physasst

[bladehunter]

10 minutes ago, physasst said:

 

 

That just means they're weak....

 

I agree. That’s what I’m saying.  They’ve played themselves !