Driver shaft tipped: What have I done?

[AKA_Double J]

Long time listener, first time caller.  I have browsed this forum for a while and found a ton of useful knowledge.  I have a question of my own now, I apologize in advance if this has been covered already.

 

Early last year my SLDR S driver shaft got broken right at the hosel (loaned it out.......)  No big deal, I hadn't used it in forever anyway.  So I just trimmed a bit more to get past the jagged part, re-installed, added extension, and put it in the basement.  Tip trimmed a total of about 1.5".  Stock Fuji 57g R flex.  Took it out a couple months ago and have been using it ever since, have hit all of my best drives with it.  (Had been using Cobra King F7 stock Fuji Pro 60g S flex for a couple years before this).  So last week my nephew broke his M1 shaft at the hosel.  I just fixed the M1 same way as the SLDR for a cheap fix.  Stock Kuro Kage 60g S flex, now tipped about 1.5" with butt extension.  Played 18 Saturday before giving it back to him and hit my longest drive ever, along with several other good ones.  Good L/R dispersion, the correct ball flight, and the shaft just felt "right" to me.  All 3 drivers mentioned are the same playing length and all at as close to 10 degrees as they can be.  F7 stock fuji S flex was always too high ball flight with heavy weight in front, SLDR S tipped is much lower, M1 tipped seemed perfect.  I also understand that head design is part of that equation.

 

The point of my long winded post is this:  I was just getting ready to buy a new-to-me driver (I prefer to buy used) and am wondering what shaft I might want based on my findings from the 2 tipped drivers.  Did I make an X-ish flex out of both of them?  Is it pure coincidence?  Are there some shafts with a butt and mid like the ones I have with a stiffer tip?  Maybe the extension added a bit of counter balance that may suit me?  Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!  FWIW, my swing speed would not suggest an X flex shaft.  Don't know what it is, but only average around 250 carry.  The one I hit Saturday was about 270 carry, most others were in the 250-260 range. I was lucky to get the occasional 240 out of the F7, and no roll out.  I did use it again a few weeks ago to make sure it wasn't just an improved swing or something, back to the same 240 max carry with too high ball flight.  Very slow back swing with a slight pause and a "full power from the top" down swing.  

 

The 2 drivers I am considering are 410 LST or OG SIM.  First choice would be 410 LST, but I am seeing way more shaft options for OG SIM on the used equipment sites.

[Stuart_G]

TM started a standard practice of tipping aftermarket upgrades 1" automatically at the factory sometime around the SLDR release.  Their practice for tipping stock shafts is a bit more unpredictable.

 

So the point is that you may not really know how much total tipping has been done to those shafts unless you can get some untipped "tip to graphic" measurements for those shafts and compare it to what you have.

 

And as an FYI - if the actual tipping goes beyond the max tipping amount for the shaft, then there is an increased risk of breakage near the hosel.   Max tipping is determined by the length of the parallel tip section of the shaft.

 

Tipping is NOT the same as going up in flex.   They both result in stiffer shafts but in different ways so there is no real accurate or useful equivalence between tipping and changing flex.  It's too subjective and everyone can interpret those two changes differently.

 

I don't know if I'd call it coincidence.  Most stock shafts are chosen are selected to to have a good chance to fit a majority of buyers so tend to be somewhat similar in terms of the target buyer.  So the fact that one stock shaft tipped was a better fit than untipped that means there is a good chance the same thing will be true with other stock shafts.

 

[AKA_Double J]

Thank you for taking the time to share this information.  The last line about a good chance that most stock shaft being a better fit after tipping makes a lot of sense.  I am very inexperienced with how to interpret the shaft profile charts that are commonly shared on here, but it sounds like a good experiment may be to find a "tip stiff" shaft that would play more like the ones that I have modified but without being tipped more than a standard amount.  On a side not, I did notice that both of the shafts that I had repaired had about a half inch of parallel tip left above the hosel.  From what I could find on the Kuro Kage, I looks like it has a 3" parallel tip uncut.  So 1" from the factory + 1.5" for repair would leave a half inch.  Hopefully this isn't in the danger zone for breaking again.

[Stuart_G]

26 minutes ago, AKA_Double J said:

Thank you for taking the time to share this information.  The last line about a good chance that most stock shaft being a better fit after tipping makes a lot of sense.  I am very inexperienced with how to interpret the shaft profile charts that are commonly shared on here,

 

That's ok.  Most who think they can don't do a very good job interpreting them.   They are really not as useful to the average reader as most would like to think.  

 

 

26 minutes ago, AKA_Double J said:

but it sounds like a good experiment may be to find a "tip stiff" shaft that would play more like the ones that I have modified but without being tipped more than a standard amount. 

 

First of all, there is no standard for tipping (so no standard amount).  Just get out and demo as many tip stiff shafts as you can get your hands on.   Tipping should really only be looked at as a "last resort" if you can't find an untipped shaft that's a good fit.

 

And don't get overly fixated on flex labels.  Don't hesitate to try going up in flex as a initial option before resorting to tipping a lower flex.

 

26 minutes ago, AKA_Double J said:

On a side not, I did notice that both of the shafts that I had repaired had about a half inch of parallel tip left above the hosel.  From what I could find on the Kuro Kage, I looks like it has a 3" parallel tip uncut.  So 1" from the factory + 1.5" for repair would leave a half inch.  Hopefully this isn't in the danger zone for breaking again.

 

Unfortunately, that's not a good sign.  You really want enough of the parallel tip section left such that the top of the hosel doesn't go past the end after inserting the shaft.   so that means maximum safe tipping is equal to the parallel tip section length minus the bore depth (or shaft insertion depth).  And that bore depth is typically ~1.25" - which for a 3" parallel tip section, means a max tipping of 1.75".

 

Now that's not saying that a shaft will automatically break if it goes beyond that - only that a potential risk exists.  The shaft OEM's don't really disclose much about how fast the strength of the tip section drops after it gets past the top of the parallel tip section (which is typically reinforced to better handle the higher stresses at the top of the hosel).

Edited September 22, 2021 by Stuart_G

[AKA_Double J]

Stuart_G, thank you again for the information  / explanations.  I totally screwed the numbers on the M1/Kuro Kage repair explanation.  I meant to say that there was about a half inch parallel left above the hosel (adapter) after the tipping fix.  So after putting on the short little ferule there is still a very small amount of parallel above that.  Your 1.25" bore depth is basically what I saw.  That would lead me to believe that the KK was not tipped from TaylorMade, if the 3" number is accurate.  I just went and measured the SLDR again and it is similar: a very small amount of parallel above the small ferule.  At any rate, the primary point of the post was to get an opinion and advice on where to start to find a shaft that would have a similar feel and ball flight to what I have accidentally ended up with.  You were able to do that. 

[Cwebb]

It sounds like you have a unique driver setup that fits you really well.  How about just playing it and not buy something new?

[AKA_Double J]

Ha!  Good point Cwebb.  The M1 that I really liked is not mine, had to give it back.  And to be honest, the love affair with it could very well be the typical 1 round honeymoon phase.  I do really like the SLDR, just looking for something "new and improved" I guess.  Thank you for your input!