Project X LS shaft for slower swing player?

[mtp]

I am currently playing Callaway Apex 2019 irons with TT Elevate 95 shafts. I’ve been super inconsistent with them lately hitting a lot of shots thin and having a big left miss if I really go after it. I got on a launch monitor yesterday and my ball speed with my 7 iron is in that 110-115 range. I was launching my 7 iron at 21-22 degrees. My driver swing speed hovers around 100-103. I tried the new P790’s with the project x ls 6.0 shaft and I loved the heavier feel at least indoors. My launch came down to 18-19 degrees. My ball speed was still in that 110-112 range with a 7 iron. I can’t swing it as fast as the Elevate shaft but my dispersion was better. I am a quick transition player but I feel like I might regret having a 120 gram shaft that’s as stout as this one is supposed to be. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts about this? Thanks!

[MattC555]

What were the rest of the numbers?  Was the ball still spinning?  Did the ball fly high enough?  At your speed I wouldn't be concerned about using a 120 gram shaft.  Were you fit into the TT Elevate 95 shafts?

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, mtp said:

I am currently playing Callaway Apex 2019 irons with TT Elevate 95 shafts. I’ve been super inconsistent with them lately hitting a lot of shots thin and having a big left miss if I really go after it. I got on a launch monitor yesterday and my ball speed with my 7 iron is in that 110-115 range. I was launching my 7 iron at 21-22 degrees. My driver swing speed hovers around 100-103. I tried the new P790’s with the project x ls 6.0 shaft and I loved the heavier feel at least indoors. My launch came down to 18-19 degrees. My ball speed was still in that 110-112 range with a 7 iron. I can’t swing it as fast as the Elevate shaft but my dispersion was better. I am a quick transition player but I feel like I might regret having a 120 gram shaft that’s as stout as this one is supposed to be. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts about this? Thanks!

Without seeing you swing that shaft, its hard for me to tell if its right for you or not, and launch angle alone tells noting, you should add  both spin, apex and descent datas, and if that launch angle was indoor from mats, launch is probably to low.

Your issue with the Elevate 95 could be as simple as too low head weight, and maybe total wgt (shaft wgt) is lower that it should have been, but my suggestion is that you get a roll of lead tape, and go to the range and try this.

Start by adding a few stripes of lead tape to the heads. Never mind how much that weight, just add a little at the time, hit a few balls and keep moving in that direction until you feel its to much, and dial back a little. A fast transition is in my book, "not that good" and might cause lots of issues, but more head weight and resistance at the top can help you to smooth out that a little.

IF you get to 7-8 grams without "solving the issue", with the thin ones, or if the clubs "balance"* dont feel right, you should "simulate" a higher shaft weight, by the same method we used for head weight, now like this.

* Balance is just my expression or term for how good you are able to FEEL both head and shaft. At the top of the swing, its feedback of shaft weight who tells us when we should turn the club. If feedback of shaft weight is too low, a typical symptom of that is over swinging, where we dont notice that we are at the top before we can feel that the head is on its way down.

Here is how you can manipulate shaft wgt to find whats right for you.
Find the approximate middle of your shaft, and set a mark at that spot with a sharpie. Measure up about 10 grams of lead tape, and distribute it both ways from the MID mark in head to grip direction on the under side of the shaft.

Start testing again. This time with NO lead tape on the heads, ONLY the shaft, and after a few balls, start adding lead tape to the heads again like the first test. if you get up to 7-8 grams of added head weight again, and it still dont feel right or works good, add 5 grams extra at the time to the shaft.

This way we can dial in what shaft and head weight that works the best.

The reason for why the LZ worked better can be the higher total weight. Total wgt pulls the club down and out during the swing, and thats why the thin ones improved, but you might be better off with a lighter option, and by following the test above, you will be able to find what works the best without changing shafts, so you know for sure where to go.

Since its fully legal to play with lead tape both on the heads and shafts, this also give you the option to play a full round of golf with it, so you can judge if you have gone to high on weight, and get drained for energy and start to do mistakes before the round is over.

PX LS was not designed for a player like you, but it dont mean they dont work, but im afraid you are "solving" a weight issue, but not like it should, and ends up with a shaft both too heavy and too stiff, so try off with lead tape, and you will for sure find whats working the best for you before you make a decision of what to do.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[mtp]

33 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

What were the rest of the numbers?  Was the ball still spinning?  Did the ball fly high enough?  At your speed I wouldn't be concerned about using a 120 gram shaft.  Were you fit into the TT Elevate 95 shafts?

I normally take screenshots of my numbers but forgot to yesterday. I’m almost positive my spin rates with the LS/790 setup were in that 5500-5700 range which was about 200 rpms less than my Elevate/Apex irons. My carry distances with the LS were 155-160. Around 5 yards less than my irons. I don’t remember peak height but definitely lower than mine with descent angle with the LS being around 43-44 degrees. On course I feel like my current irons fly too high. I was fit into my current irons by a reputable fitter and we play a lot of rounds together. I’m a 6 handicap so it’s not like I’m playing terrible. I just have a hard time “feeling” this current iron set up on the course. If I go after one it’s left and then I try to back off a little and can hit wipey fades because I’m not a good enough ball striker to adjust swing speed/tempo. I think indoors with repeated swings I can start to feel what the shaft does so I make the adjustment but on the course when I’m not hitting iron after iron, inconsistencies creep in. 

[mtp]

32 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Without seeing you swing that shaft, its hard for me to tell if its right for you or not, and launch angle alone tells noting, you should add  both spin, apex and descent datas, and if that launch angle was indoor from mats, launch is probably to low.

Your issue with the Elevate 95 could be as simple as too low head weight, and maybe total wgt (shaft wgt) is lower that it should have been, but my suggestion is that you get a roll of lead tape, and go to the range and try this.

Start by adding a few stripes of lead tape to the heads. Never mind how much that weight, just add a little at the time, hit a few balls and keep moving in that direction until you feel its to much, and dial back a little. A fast transition is in my book, "not that good" and might cause lots of issues, but more head weight and resistance at the top can help you to smooth out that a little.

IF you get to 7-8 grams without "solving the issue", with the thin ones, or if the clubs "balance"* dont feel right, you should "simulate" a higher shaft weight, by the same method we used for head weight, now like this.

* Balance is just my expression or term for how good you are able to FEEL both head and shaft. At the top of the swing, its feedback of shaft weight who tells us when we should turn the club. If feedback of shaft weight is too low, a typical symptom of that is over swinging, where we dont notice that we are at the top before we can feel that the head is on its way down.

Here is how you can manipulate shaft wgt to find whats right for you.
Find the approximate middle of your shaft, and set a mark at that spot with a sharpie. Measure up about 10 grams of lead tape, and distribute it both ways from the MID mark in head to grip direction on the under side of the shaft.

Start testing again. This time with NO lead tape on the heads, ONLY the shaft, and after a few balls, start adding lead tape to the heads again like the first test. if you get up to 7-8 grams of added head weight again, and it still dont feel right or works good, add 5 grams extra at the time to the shaft.

This way we can dial in what shaft and head weight that works the best.

The reason for why the LZ worked better can be the higher total weight. Total wgt pulls the club down and out during the swing, and thats why the thin ones improved, but you might be better off with a lighter option, and by following the test above, you will be able to find what works the best without changing shafts, so you know for sure where to go.

Since its fully legal to play with lead tape both on the heads and shafts, this also give you the option to play a full round of golf with it, so you can judge if you have gone to high on weight, and get drained for energy and start to do mistakes before the round is over.

PX LS was not designed for a player like you, but it dont mean they dont work, but im afraid you are "solving" a weight issue, but not like it should, and ends up with a shaft both too heavy and too stiff, so try off with lead tape, and you will for sure find whats working the best for you before you make a decision of what to do.

Thank you so much!!! I will definitely give this a try. I posted what numbers I could remember in my response above. It’s very much a feel thing. When I’m in sync I love my current setup because my swing speed is higher. But when out of sync it’s just so hard to feel much of anything. The club just feels so light to me. And when I start fearing the left miss bad things happen. When I compared these two yesterday consistency of strike was way better with the LS. 
 

Thanks again for the advice!

[Howard_Jones]

26 minutes ago, mtp said:

Thank you so much!!! I will definitely give this a try. I posted what numbers I could remember in my response above. It’s very much a feel thing. When I’m in sync I love my current setup because my swing speed is higher. But when out of sync it’s just so hard to feel much of anything. The club just feels so light to me. And when I start fearing the left miss bad things happen. When I compared these two yesterday consistency of strike was way better with the LS. 
 

Thanks again for the advice!

i forgot one important thing, how to SEE if Total weight has become too high.

Let your club fitter friend help you here, its his EYES we need...(and he will learn something)
You should take a "one arm back hand stroke", just like a tennis stroke using your left arm only.
Support the club to the top with 2 fingers from your right hand, but from the top and down, its the left hand only. IF total weight is too high, there will be a VISIBLE DROP in your left shoulder just before the bottom of the swing (like 7 o clock seen from the front).

IF that drop is visible, dial back on total weight. The issue during play will be that we need support of the right hand to prevent a fat shot if total wgt is too high, so we "tighten" the grip to hold back the club, and that will reduce club speed, and reduce the right arms ability to do the most important job it has, control of face angle.

Good luck with testing, and tell us how it turned out.

[mtp]

4 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

i forgot one important thing, how to SEE if Total weight has become too high.

Let your club fitter friend help you here, its his EYES we need...(and he will learn something)
You should take a "one arm back hand stroke", just like a tennis stroke using your left arm only.
Support the club to the top with 2 fingers from your right hand, but from the top and down, its the left hand only. IF total weight is too high, there will be a VISIBLE DROP in your left shoulder just before the bottom of the swing (like 7 o clock seen from the front).

IF that drop is visible, dial back on total weight. The issue during play will be that we need support of the right hand to prevent a fat shot if total wgt is too high, so we "tighten" the grip to hold back the club, and that will reduce club speed, and reduce the right arms ability to do the most important job it has, control of face angle.

Good luck with testing, and tell us how it turned out.

Thanks again and will do.