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Shaft shattered at tip ?


russian7

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I had an aldila Fairway shaft that I cut down and installed with a shim in a 2-iron and after about 30 balls at the range that tip just shattered and splintered and cracked all over.

 

I inspected the shaft and everything was perfect prior to install, any idea why this would happen...

 

** this same shaft tip broke in my 3 wood 1st so I tipped it about a quarter inch extra before using it again and upon inspection I could not see any cracks or anything so I'm not sure why this happened unless there was a weak point I missed

20210922_165521.jpg

20210922_170440.jpg

20210922_170458.jpg

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That shaft tip was overheated during pull, so the resin (epoxy) has changed its properties and become brittle. Thats my idea about it, but we are at the point of max stress anyway, so even a brand new shaft can sometimes break at this point.

Edited by Howard_Jones
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2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

What did you use to shim the shaft into the larger hosel?

 

How much (if any) did you tip trim it for the heavier head?

Brass shim, the trimming could be the problem it was a fairway shaft that broke so I cut the tip off and then tipped it a bit more so chances are without even thinking about it I may have been close to the end of the max tipping section ... upon further inspection when I pulled the head it was cracked all over around the first half inch and it was almost like a perfect snap above the cracking just inside the hosel with a straight break line above the cracking

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14 minutes ago, russian7 said:

Brass shim, the trimming could be the problem it was a fairway shaft that broke so I cut the tip off and then tipped it a bit more so chances are without even thinking about it I may have been close to the end of the max tipping section ... upon further inspection when I pulled the head it was cracked all over around the first half inch and it was almost like a perfect snap above the cracking just inside the hosel with a straight break line above the cracking

Agreed, to much tip trim.

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33 minutes ago, russian7 said:

Brass shim, the trimming could be the problem it was a fairway shaft that broke so I cut the tip off and then tipped it a bit more so chances are without even thinking about it I may have been close to the end of the max tipping section ... upon further inspection when I pulled the head it was cracked all over around the first half inch and it was almost like a perfect snap above the cracking just inside the hosel with a straight break line above the cracking


We CANT use a brass shim on graphite.....i should have asked like Stuart did.
For Graphite we have to use a "full cylinder" of plastic, NOT a "armed" brass shim like we do when using taper tip shafts in parallel hosels.

This one is NO GO, on graphite
image.png.c23fdaad5f5760c1fb1f16a056655c22.png

We have to use shims like this ones

image.png.fb522bf157e5621f35d5b16bb29051e8.png

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26 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:


We CANT use a brass shim on graphite...

 

Sorry Howard, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on that point.   In theory, the brass is both soft enough and thin enough that it isn't going to add any more to the stress on the shaft than the steel hosel would with a good fit.  It's going to be a non-issue for most installations.   Now for thicker shims (like ones that might be used for a .335" shaft into a .370" hosel), one still has to be careful about burrs - but that's really the same as any graphite shaft install.

 

But that said, when thicker shims are needed, fiberglass drywall mesh is another very good option to use.

 

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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14 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Sorry Howard, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree on that point.   In theory, the brass is both soft enough and thin enough that it isn't going to add any more to the stress on the shaft than the steel hosel would with a good fit.  It's going to be a non-issue for most installations.   Now for thicker shims (like ones that might be used for a .335" shaft into a .370" hosel), one still has to be careful about burrs - but that's really the same as any graphite shaft install.

 

But that said, when thicker shims are needed, fiberglass drywall mesh is another very good option to use.

 

 


Yes i aggree with the fiberglass mesh tape, ive used that, but when we have to go from like in this case, 0.335 to 0.355 or maybe even to 0.370 we should use a shim of the type im posting above.

When i closed down my shop, i had all models of fitting heads where the hosels was modified to Spiralock connectors, and if i recall right, the hosel ID was about 0.410. To friends and family i used this heads with Mitchell shims of the type above, and NON of them has failed.

The brass shim above will NOT compress to flat arms like it does when we use it for shimming .355 to 0.370, so the shaft will not have "support" like from a cylinder, but from each arm, and that can absolutely cause a issue like this.

I would like to see the shim and the tip itself after pulling

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2 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

The brass shim above will NOT compress to flat arms like it does when we use it for shimming .355 to 0.370, so the shaft will not have "support" like from a cylinder, but from each arm, and that can absolutely cause a issue like this.

 

The only reason I can think of that it would not compress is if the shim isn't thick enough to take up the space that it needs to.  It which case it would be a bad choice because it's size isn't sufficient for the job, not because of the material it's made out of.

 

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1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:


We CANT use a brass shim on graphite.....i should have asked like Stuart did.
For Graphite we have to use a "full cylinder" of plastic, NOT a "armed" brass shim like we do when using taper tip shafts in parallel hosels.

This one is NO GO, on graphite
image.png.c23fdaad5f5760c1fb1f16a056655c22.png

We have to use shims like this ones

image.png.fb522bf157e5621f35d5b16bb29051e8.png

Ah, I did not know that I assumed with the epoxy it would Bond tight and not cause any splintering or issues with the graphite but now I know thank you sir

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30 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:


Yes i aggree with the fiberglass mesh tape, ive used that, but when we have to go from like in this case, 0.335 to 0.355 or maybe even to 0.370 we should use a shim of the type im posting above.

When i closed down my shop, i had all models of fitting heads where the hosels was modified to Spiralock connectors, and if i recall right, the hosel ID was about 0.410. To friends and family i used this heads with Mitchell shims of the type above, and NON of them has failed.

The brass shim above will NOT compress to flat arms like it does when we use it for shimming .355 to 0.370, so the shaft will not have "support" like from a cylinder, but from each arm, and that can absolutely cause a issue like this.

I would like to see the shim and the tip itself after pulling

The shim looked fine when I pulled it out but I didn't examine it but this is what the tip looked like it was like an even break up top but splintered above-the-break but the tip section was fine

20210923_064646.jpg

20210923_064653.jpg

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19 minutes ago, russian7 said:

The shim looked fine when I pulled it out but I didn't examine it but this is what the tip looked like it was like an even break up top but splintered above-the-break but the tip section was fine

 

 

Since the break seems to be near the top of the ferrule and not the top of the hosel, and also at the top of the prepped section, I still would suspect too much tipping (and maybe the resulting over-prepping) more than the shim.

 

Too much heat during the pull is also still a possibility.

 

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2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Since the break seems to be near the top of the ferrule and not the top of the hosel, and also at the top of the prepped section, I still would suspect too much tipping (and maybe the resulting over-prepping) more than the shim.

 

Too much heat during the pull is also still a possibility.

 


YES, this was NOT caused by the shim, if it was we would have seen damages below the hosel top

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7 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

The only reason I can think of that it would not compress is if the shim isn't thick enough to take up the space that it needs to.  It which case it would be a bad choice because it's size isn't sufficient for the job, not because of the material it's made out of.

 

I always cut of 1/2  of every other "leg" on brass shims. I felt it made for a more secure bond.

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2 hours ago, russian7 said:

So is the best recommendation for a driving iron to just use a hybrid specific shaft and sand it down? The problem I have is that that exact shaft that I had in the fairway version vs. The hybrid version does not perform the same so what do you recommend?


Wood shafts of today often has a tip section thats only 3.0" long, and typical tip trim instruction then becomes max 1.5" since we need the other 1.5" to insert and ferrule

1.5" tip trim on wood shaft, is for 7W or a head weight in the area of 230 grams

a #2 iron or #2 hybrid head will be in the same area of about 232 grams, so we can stretch it to that point, unless we intentionally want it to play softer (less tip trim or higher head weight)

Depending on head weight of the head you use, and if the Hybrid shaft feels stiffer or softer than the wood from the same series, you can either tip trim the hybrid more that standard (like hard stepping), or less than standard (soft stepping), all depending on what side of stiff/soft you mean it is.

The issue with wood shafts is that hardly any of them is designed to be played shorter than 41", so when we get to 40" or below, we hardly have no butt section of the shaft left. Sure we can compensate with some BU tape to get the right diameter for the lowest hand, so if thats OK, and it feels good and works as it should...do it. In the end its only ONE valid rule here...what ever works for you.

Edited by Howard_Jones
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9 hours ago, laxwax said:

How far up does epoxy go up the tip? If so much epoxy was used and went that far up the tip to above the ferrule, that may cause a break like that too.

 

Common myth - but false.

 

8 hours ago, russian7 said:

The problem I have is that that exact shaft that I had in the fairway version vs. The hybrid version does not perform the same so what do you recommend?

 

Sorry, really not trying to be a smart  a**  but just go find a different model hybrid or iron shaft that does perform the way you want for the DI.  It might be a pain to go through all the demoing and testing but that's really your only choice since the fairway shaft wont really perform the same anyways either.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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9 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:


Wood shafts of today often has a tip section thats only 3.0" long, and typical tip trim instruction then becomes max 1.5" since we need the other 1.5" to insert and ferrule

1.5" tip trim on wood shaft, is for 7W or a head weight in the area of 230 grams

a #2 iron or #2 hybrid head will be in the same area of about 232 grams, so we can stretch it to that point, unless we intentionally want it to play softer (less tip trim or higher head weight)

Depending on head weight of the head you use, and if the Hybrid shaft feels stiffer or softer than the wood from the same series, you can either tip trim the hybrid more that standard (like hard stepping), or less than standard (soft stepping), all depending on what side of stiff/soft you mean it is.

The issue with wood shafts is that hardly any of them is designed to be played shorter than 41", so when we get to 40" or below, we hardly have no butt section of the shaft left. Sure we can compensate with some BU tape to get the right diameter for the lowest hand, so if thats OK, and it feels good and works as it should...do it. In the end its only ONE valid rule here...what ever works for you.

Thank you for the help Howard!

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4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Common myth - but false.

 

 

Sorry, really not trying to be a smart  a**  but just go find a different model hybrid or iron shaft that does perform the way you want for the DI.  It might be a pain to go through all the demoing and testing but that's really your only choice since the fairway shaft wont really perform the same anyways either.

 

Any recommendations lower launch and spin shafts that have a smooth or more lively springy feel like the aldila tour green I had?

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8 minutes ago, russian7 said:

I tried the hybrid version of it two different times and it did not feel the same and it spun away more so that was a big drawback for me so I'm hesitant to try it again

 

Sorry, got things mixed upped.  Forgot you were looking for a hybrid shaft.

 

In what way did it feel different?  loading feel or weight feel?  Softer or firmer? heavier or lighter?

 

More spin could be from a number of reasons - not all of which are specific to the shaft model.

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On 9/24/2021 at 7:53 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

Sorry, got things mixed upped.  Forgot you were looking for a hybrid shaft.

 

In what way did it feel different?  loading feel or weight feel?  Softer or firmer? heavier or lighter?

 

More spin could be from a number of reasons - not all of which are specific to the shaft model.

Yeah wasnt as smooth/springy feeling as the fairway shaft an the hybrid shaft launched higher and spun more for sure. I've used the Fairway shaft in quite a few heads and gotten some outstanding numbers and distance and the hybrid shaft just didn't perform for me and i tried 3 different hybrid heads and it just seemed to spin more 

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