Why PW and GW?

[playit]

Don't PW and GW have more bounce than usual? They seem heavier than regular irons, there is more mass at the bottom? If one carries a SW and a LW, why have a PW and GW, why not have a 10-iron and 11-iron? Thinking being that if you are using the PW and GW for approach shots, scoring yardage, from the fairway. Hope this makes sense.

 

EDIT: I guess the question is why do the PW and GW still exist so much, why are there not more 10-i and 11-i offered? What is the purpose of a PW and GW for most players if they carry a SW and LW?

Edited September 23, 2021 by playit

[LUXOR54]

If the pw and gw are part of the manufactured set, they effectively are a 10 and 11 iron as they are a progression of that iron set. Otherwise you can typically buy specialty wedges from 46° of loft and up, with multiple bounce and sole options

[Drivingrangehero]

My first set of clubs said 10 iron in the bottom rather than PW (Diawa Hi-Trac TCS) I think some Honma clubs still do that. I was at the range and a guy in the next bay to me had the Honma TWX, and they are labeled 10 iron on the bottom. 
 

 

[Ger21]

The only difference between a PW and a 10 iron is what's stamped on the bottom.

[playit]

46 minutes ago, Ger21 said:

The only difference between a PW and a 10 iron is what's stamped on the bottom.

 

Is that so? I thought a PW was heavier, had some bounce, more of both than an equivalent iron.

[PixlPutterman]

1 minute ago, playit said:

 

Is that so? I thought a PW was heavier, had some bounce, more of both than an equivalent iron.

There is no rule as to what a PW has to be. Period. PW can be part of a set, or can be from the wedge family (like a Vokey 48*)

 

Its all just naming. You are way over thinking this.

 

No one calls them 10 and 11 irons.

[ChipNRun]

2 hours ago, playit said:

Don't PW and GW have more bounce than usual? They seem heavier than regular irons, there is more mass at the bottom? If one carries a SW and a LW, why have a PW and GW, why not have a 10-iron and 11-iron?

 

My old MacGregor MT irons (1971 flatsole model) came with a 10i instead of a PW. MacG and a couple of other companies also offered an 11i in that era. Today, Honma iron sets feature a 9i, 10i and 11i before going to SW.

 

What I realized after twenty years was that the 10i was not really a PW. It had a rather sharp leading edge and not much bounce. It was great for full shots off fairway or coming out of medium rough, but it was hard to use on touch shots around the green. Too often it would bite early and leave the ball short, or skip and skull the shot.

 

In 2021, you just have to decide whether you want the stock PW (and GW), or if you want to go with specialty wedges that have a bit more bounce and grind options. The question is usually posed as: do you use the club as a wedge, or as a 10i?

 

Popular idea in GolfWRX-land: If you hit lots of full shots with your PW and GW, you might want to go with iron-set wedges. If you hit mainly partials with them, you probably want a specialty wedge. Or, you may find the stock PW and GW work just fine for partial shots. (Example: the TM SLDR irons in my backup bag.)

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by ChipNRun
Recast picture.

[Ger21]

55 minutes ago, PixlPutterman said:

No one calls them 10 and 11 irons.

Except Honma.

[Drumdog]

I carry a PW, 50*, 54* and 60* because I want as many scoring options around the green as I can get within reason.

[Brausch24]

One thing i learned from a club pro not too long ago, was the size of head and forgiveness with changing out PW and lower for a wedge of the same degree. This does a number of things: 1) Gives you more forgiveness with the PW and lower 2) Gives you more flexibility of shots by manipulating the club.

 

With that said, to each their own and all choice.

[lefthack]

You can call them whatever you want. Approach wedge, gap wedge, sand wedge I use not in the sand. It's about gaps and conditions. High bounce for rough, low for tight, lofts that hit given yardage.

 

They are called wedges because the shape is different than my "irons" except for my set PW. But gap, or A, or sand, is just a name that might have meaning, but not a rule.

 

Why do some iron sets have a 20* 3 and some have a 20* 5? 🤣

 

Is it still a 3 or a 5 if they are one length? Hmmm.

[AC in TX]

Today's PW/GW is really yesterday's 9i/PW ... your mileage may vary. 

[DeCuchi]

PW is effectively a 10 iron, though back in the day a typical PW loft was 48-51 degrees.  Excellent loft for pitch shots.  Gap wedges exist to account for the loft jacking trend that left a huge gap between a PW and SW.

[kiwihacker]

7 hours ago, DeCuchi said:

PW is effectively a 10 iron, though back in the day a typical PW loft was 48-51 degrees.  Excellent loft for pitch shots.  Gap wedges exist to account for the loft jacking trend that left a huge gap between a PW and SW.

Mines 44° so it's effectively a 9 iron. 

[kiwihacker]

This raises a good question though. Back in the day when a set pitching wedge was 51° was it also more of a specialty club, along with the set sand wedge, with different bounce, sole width, sole grind etc compared to the 3-9 irons? 

[DeCuchi]

8 hours ago, kiwihacker said:

This raises a good question though. Back in the day when a set pitching wedge was 51° was it also more of a specialty club, along with the set sand wedge, with different bounce, sole width, sole grind etc compared to the 3-9 irons? 

Bounce progresses through the set mostly in the short irons to wedge.  Modern clubs are starting to have more radius in their soles, borrowing from specialty wedges.  That's one of Titleist's selling points this year specifically in the PW.  With more rounded soles, bounce has become less of a factor in irons to the point that alot of manufacturers don't even list it in their specs.  I guess in effect you could say that you now have a specialty 9 iron and PW built into your regular set.  They just call it a PW and GW now.

[Ri_Redneck]

My PWs are all part of my sets and are 45-46°. I play GW (52°/8°), SW (56°/12°) & LW (60°/8°). My wedges are SLIGHTLY heavier than my irons because I DO play full shots with them regularly and I don't want the feel to be very different. Presuming wedges are always heavier than irons is just not correct. I've always had to add weight to wedges when I get them. Also, wedges are design to work in certain ways, under certain circumstances for specific individuals. That's why there are so many variations in loft, bounce, etc.

 

Incidentally, I have altered every single club I have used in the last 35 yrs because stock has never been right for me and that includes putters. Most commonly, it is weighting and grips.

 

BT

[Sub_Roc]

I had a nearly 35 yard gap issue between my new iron set "P" wedge and the 53 Ping Glide 3.0, so I solved that with a new 46 Ping Glide 3.0. 

All my specialty wedges have different sole profiles and heavier swingweights 46/SS/D4, 53/WS/D4.5, 58/Eye2/D5. 

I'm finding it easier to flight the shots and get more creative than the iron set wedges which I had up to the sand wedge before.

Also, spin is more predictable with less fliers from thick/wet lies.

Hopefully, this will all translate to better scoring.

[2bGood]

History got us here. The pitching wedge once was a specialty club. then as lofts got jacked it became 9iron with a 'p' on it. Gap wedge was brought in to fill the gap that the pitching wedge once covered.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:40 AM, Ger21 said:

Except Honma.

 

And sometimes Mizuno (back in the day).

They even had a 12i:

[newbsauce]

If I were the golf equipment czar, then instead of 7-irons we’d have 34-irons, and instead of sand wedges we’d have 56-wedges, and so on and so forth. 
 

Who do I speak with about being duly authorized for this new role? References available upon request. 

[jbrunk]

Maybe it’s all about production cost savings. “P” and “G” are only one character to stamp, where “10” and “11” are two characters each. That doubles your stamping cost per club. Not to mention the extra paint fill....

[Billfitz]

 

On 9/23/2021 at 10:42 AM, playit said:

 What is the purpose of a PW and GW for most players if they carry a SW and LW?

Traditionally the PW was around 45 degrees and SW around 54 degrees. That left a lot of gap between the two, ergo the moniker 'gap wedge' for one with around 50 degrees loft.

[JAMH03]

Quote

the question is why do the PW and GW still exist so much, why are there not more 10-i and 11-i offered? What is the purpose of a PW and GW for most players if they carry a SW and LW?

Long story short is that you're right it would be more logical, make more sense to do it that way. I have to think that they exist for the same reason we still call them fairway woods.

JMHO YMMV

[Tupperwolf]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:09 AM, newbsauce said:

If I were the golf equipment czar, then instead of 7-irons we’d have 34-irons, and instead of sand wedges we’d have 56-wedges, and so on and so forth. 
 

Who do I speak with about being duly authorized for this new role? References available upon request. 

One of the versions of the Ben Hogan company had the same idea.

[denkea]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:05 PM, Billfitz said:

 

Traditionally the PW was around 45 degrees and SW around 54 degrees. That left a lot of gap between the two, ergo the moniker 'gap wedge' for one with around 50 degrees loft.

Actually that's not very traditional.  The original Ping eye 2 circa 1988 Pitching Wedge was 50 1/2º

[iknowbagu]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:05 PM, Billfitz said:

 

Traditionally the PW was around 45 degrees and SW around 54 degrees. That left a lot of gap between the two, ergo the moniker 'gap wedge' for one with around 50 degrees loft.

 

Traditionally the PW was around 50°.  The GW came into existence when the PW started creeping towards 47-48° because the SW has been relatively constant at 54-56°.  Only recently (relatively speaking) has the PW started coming in the 42-45° range (and in some instances, even lower).

[Billfitz]

2 minutes ago, denkea said:

Actually that's not very traditional.  The original Ping eye 2 circa 1988 Pitching Wedge was 50 1/2º

True, in 1988. And a 9 iron was probably 45 degrees. There was a big shift in iron lofts in the 1990s.