The Best Ball Striker Of All Time

[jomatty]

19 hours ago, aenemated said:

I honestly don’t get the Moe Norman thing. Not trying to be a troll but it just reminds me of people who say Sonic Youth is their favorite band.

 

Man, no one actually likes Sonic Youth, they just like saying they do.

Listen to “teenage riot” and all of daydream nation.  So good.  That said, I heard teenage riot the other day and it did make me feel a million years old…

[mat562]

The best ones I've seen in my time watching golf, in no particular order, would be:

 

Watson, Norman, Price, Faldo, Woosnam, Lyle, Love, Els, Woods, Westwood, Montgomerie, Duval, McIlroy, DJ  and Koepka.

 

 

[mat562]

Stenson, on his day, was up there too as a flusher of the ball.

 

[molecularman]

Todd Graves IMO is a con artist.  

Towards the end of Moe's life, he renounced much of what he had preached and became convinced that Manuel de le Torra was the best instructor ever.  

Most tour pros that have seen Moe hit in person have stated he is the best they have ever seen.  That's good enough for me. 

[PorkChopExpress]

Martin Chuck

Moe Norman

 

but Martin when he swung, the ground shook. 
 

 

[Gsea]

trevino, the dime wear on his irons were ufb

[ChrisSP]

Can't believe we're on Page 2 and nobody has mentioned Vijay Singh (unless I missed his name buried in a post somewhere).

 

You can debate what kind of guy he was, but in his prime he was a human stripe show.

 

There's no telling what his record might have looked like if he was an even average putter.

 

He definitely belongs in the conversation.

[isaacbm]

Not sure if anyone cares but here’s my opinion: and sorry for the super run-on post…

 

I got paired with Todd Graves seven different times in professional events in the 90s. Never saw him shoot under 71. He looks like a mirror image of Moe the way he swung but he never hit the ball the way Moe did. 

    Watched Moe at two clinics in person. He warmed up by hitting pitches at the 60 yard flag. He hit about 12 balls in 45 seconds and hit the pin  twice and was never more than a foot left or right the other 10 times.

 

At one point he was hitting drivers off of hard pan at the 250 sign. The ball just literally never curved. The sign was a big 4 x 8 piece of plywood. He hit the damn thing every second or third time and was within a few yards of it every other time.  Driver off of baked dirt!  It was unbelievable. There was no wind that day and it was like watching a robot.

   He had a 2 litre of Diet Coke beside him and he hit balls for about an hour and 15 minutes and finish the whole bottle! 

   
    I’ve had the privilege of having played with many major champions and I have to say the one thing that impressed me more than anything else was watching Tom Kite  hit wedges. 
     This is a true story with absolutely no embellishing.:

     I was working at the PGA West picking range balls at the Bob Hope one year. Kite won the tournament that year at 35 under par. He was there one evening almost till dark with his caddy. Caddy had a big beach towel that he would lay down on the ground at different yardages. He’d take a couple steps off to the side and literally just stand there reading a magazine. Kite  would hit ball  after ball after ball that would land on that big towel. The Caddy wouldn’t move, wouldn’t flinch, wouldn’t even look up. Then Kite would yell “take it back 10” and caddy would take his eyes out of his magazine and move the towel 10 yards back and just take a couple steps to the side again and stare back at his magazine . Kite just peppered that towel ball after ball after ball. 
    The scene had me in a trance. I was supposed to be sorting through all of the different balls and separating them into bags, but I just kept watching him. I thought at one point the Caddy for sure was going to take one right on top of his skull but it never happened. He just didn’t miss. He went from 60 yards, 70 yards, 80 yards, and then 90 yards. He probably hit 8 to 10 shots at each yardage and literally never missed the towel. 
     There was a survey that year of the tour players and Kite  was voted the best wedge player. Like 95% of the players that voted voted for him. 
      I also played with David Toms where he hit five wood inside of 6 feet four times in one round. Our third for that day? Vijay Singh!  He hit every fairway and every green. If I was putting for him he  would’ve shot 58! He was 67! Lol!!  I played behind Vijay another time in the Bermuda open. It was a real slow day so I got to watch him for most of the day.  He just flagged long iron probably six times that day. 
 

As far as the Moe thing goes, I agree that if you can’t do it in a major then it means you can’t really be compared to the greats. But all of the greats including Hogan, Trevino and Nicklaus have  said that he’s the best theyve ever seen. 
     I mean, the guy won like 55 Canadian tour events and shot 58 or 59 seven times in professional events. That’s got to count for something! 

[dlygrisse]

27 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

Not sure if anyone cares but here’s my opinion: and sorry for the super run-on post…

 

I got paired with Todd Graves seven different times in professional events in the 90s. Never saw him shoot under 71. He looks like a mirror image of Moe the way he swung but he never hit the ball the way Moe did. 

    Watched Moe at two clinics in person. He warmed up by hitting pitches at the 60 yard flag. He hit about 12 balls in 45 seconds and hit the pin  twice and was never more than a foot left or right the other 10 times.

 

At one point he was hitting drivers off of hard pan at the 250 sign. The ball just literally never curved. The sign was a big 4 x 8 piece of plywood. He hit the damn thing every second or third time and was within a few yards of it every other time.  Driver off of baked dirt!  It was unbelievable. There was no wind that day and it was like watching a robot.

   He had a 2 litre of Diet Coke beside him and he hit balls for about an hour and 15 minutes and finish the whole bottle! 

   
    I’ve had the privilege of having played with many major champions and I have to say the one thing that impressed me more than anything else was watching Tom Kite  hit wedges. 
     This is a true story with absolutely no embellishing.:

     I was working at the PGA West picking range balls at the Bob Hope one year. Kite won the tournament that year at 35 under par. He was there one evening almost till dark with his caddy. Caddy had a big beach towel that he would lay down on the ground at different yardages. He’d take a couple steps off to the side and literally just stand there reading a magazine. Kite  would hit ball  after ball after ball that would land on that big towel. The Caddy wouldn’t move, wouldn’t flinch, wouldn’t even look up. Then Kite would yell “take it back 10” and caddy would take his eyes out of his magazine and move the towel 10 yards back and just take a couple steps to the side again and stare back at his magazine . Kite just peppered that towel ball after ball after ball. 
    The scene had me in a trance. I was supposed to be sorting through all of the different balls and separating them into bags, but I just kept watching him. I thought at one point the Caddy for sure was going to take one right on top of his skull but it never happened. He just didn’t miss. He went from 60 yards, 70 yards, 80 yards, and then 90 yards. He probably hit 8 to 10 shots at each yardage and literally never missed the towel. 
     There was a survey that year of the tour players and Kite  was voted the best wedge player. Like 95% of the players that voted voted for him. 
      I also played with David Toms where he hit five wood inside of 6 feet four times in one round. Our third for that day? Vijay Singh!  He hit every fairway and every green. If I was putting for him he  would’ve shot 58! He was 67! Lol!!  I played behind Vijay another time in the Bermuda open. It was a real slow day so I got to watch him for most of the day.  He just flagged long iron probably six times that day. 
 

As far as the Moe thing goes, I agree that if you can’t do it in a major then it means you can’t really be compared to the greats. But all of the greats including Hogan, Trevino and Nicklaus have  said that he’s the best theyve ever seen. 
     I mean, the guy won like 55 Canadian tour events and shot 58 or 59 seven times in professional events. That’s got to count for something! 

Cool story. 👍
 

it would be interesting if there was actual footage of Moe playing a competitive round of golf.  All you see is footage from clinics and you can’t even see the ball flight.  

[Strategery]

Fred Couples, lol. He's not even on the distant radar. Read up on Greg Norman's driving or Nick Price's irons.

[tatertot]

What is the definition of ball striker? Is it the ability to hit one shot over and over, or all the shots? Moe had one shot ... and he could hit it like no other. Tiger had all the shots, and could hit them under pressure. Who is a better ball striker?

[Yuck]

Definition of Ball Striker can differ.  Many mentioned above could hit the middle of the face almost all the time, but were not “shot makers”.   They had a go to shot and played for it.   The list becomes smaller if you include the ability to move the ball around both ways, high, low, skinny, flat…….  You get it.   Then amongst that group of ball strikers, very few got it done consistently under the gun in big events.  Look at mediocre putters who won on multiple tracks, for many years.  I assume they are ball strikers.    VJ deserves an honorable mention with what he did given even his best putting.

[isaacbm]

15 minutes ago, tatertot said:

What is the definition of ball striker? Is it the ability to hit one shot over and over, or all the shots? Moe had one shot ... and he could hit it like no other. Tiger had all the shots, and could hit them under pressure. Who is a better ball striker?

Someone who can consistently control the bottom of the swing Arc and match face to path with speed. 

 

Moe did not have one shot. That’s ridiculous.  I watched him hit driver off hard pan, driver out of divots , driver out of fairway bunkers. 
     High, low, left to right, right to left,

Do you know how hard it is to hit it dead straight in a crosswind? 
     Nearly every great player in the last 60 years has said that he is the best they’ve ever seen. 
      And he did it all in tournaments too. 

[dlygrisse]

12 minutes ago, Yuck said:

Definition of Ball Striker can differ.  Many mentioned above could hit the middle of the face almost all the time, but were not “shot makers”.   They had a go to shot and played for it.   The list becomes smaller if you include the ability to move the ball around both ways, high, low, skinny, flat…….  You get it.   Then amongst that group of ball strikers, very few got it done consistently under the gun in big events.  Look at mediocre putters who won on multiple tracks, for many years.  I assume they are ball strikers.    VJ deserves an honorable mention with what he did given even his best putting.

Distance control and trajectory control are big in my book.  Guys that always hit it pin high, that can control height and spin through the bag.  Jack and Tiger were great at this.  Jack was known for a high fade, but he always worked it from the safe side both ways. He always seemed to be pin high, and never short sided himself.  

[ChrisL52188]

2 hours ago, mat562 said:

The best ones I've seen in my time watching golf, in no particular order, would be:

 

Watson, Norman, Price, Faldo, Woosnam, Lyle, Love, Els, Woods, Westwood, Montgomerie, Duval, McIlroy, DJ  and Koepka.

 

 

No Sergio? 

[Ghostwedge]

Your list should start and end with Ben Hogan. Many teaching pro's say he was the best they ever saw. He did in competition at its highest level period.

Back when the caddie would shag balls on the range his caddie barely had to move a step or two in any direction. His owly personality shouldn't deflect from that.

[bunta]

8 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

The guy's an idiot if he doesn't include Sergio, Rory and Westy on that list. 

 

im sorry, were you on tour ?

[ShowMe]

On 9/25/2021 at 8:58 PM, aenemated said:

I honestly don’t get the Moe Norman thing. Not trying to be a troll but it just reminds me of people who say Sonic Youth is their favorite band.

 

Man, no one actually likes Sonic Youth, they just like saying they do.

 

Or The Foo Fighters, for that matter.  One good song, at best.

[ShowMe]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:01 PM, miamistomp said:

 Or Tom Morello's guitar playing...

 

I like Morello the first time I hear him playing something, but then it all sounds the same after a  while.

[DanoCanuck]

Best ball strikers? Of course it's the 2021 European Ryder Cup Team according to the captain. 
 

"the best team of ball-strikers Europe have ever sent out in a Ryder Cup"

[Ironman_32]

I think you need to define whether you mean "best baller striker ever" or "best ball striker who has ever been on tour". 

 

It's kind of like asking who the best 3-point shooter is. Is it Steph Curry in the NBA and has to deal to a lot of travel, and playing games and everything else that comes into the NBA, or some guy who plays pickup who has a higher 3-point % than Steph but couldn't handle the travel. 

[Fairway14]

Jack Nicklaus,

[CasualLie]

On 9/25/2021 at 6:54 PM, Quasimoto said:

If I had to pick a swing I would take peak David Duval.

Peak Duval would only work with chunky people.  Peak fitness Duval didn't win much.

[Nels55]

4 hours ago, Ironman_32 said:

I think you need to define whether you mean "best baller striker ever" or "best ball striker who has ever been on tour". 

 

It's kind of like asking who the best 3-point shooter is. Is it Steph Curry in the NBA and has to deal to a lot of travel, and playing games and everything else that comes into the NBA, or some guy who plays pickup who has a higher 3-point % than Steph but couldn't handle the travel. 

There are gym rats all over the world who can shoot threes really well.  One of the many reasons that they are not in the NBA is that they would get the ball shoved down their throat trying to get their shot off.  Curry can catch the ball and shoot a three so fast that if you blink you will miss it.

 

[Nels55]

Here are some of Lee Trevino's thoughts on Moe Norman:

 

[grm24]

21 hours ago, BigTreble said:

The only questionable one on that list may be slamming Sammy, since most of his wins came after many of the field got drafted and were serving in WW II

No. You might want to check your numbers more closely. And if you actually drill down even further between the late 1941-1945 time frame you will find that Sam won more even more official events outside of WWII that you want to give him credit for.

 

Sam "only" won 10 events during late 1941 through 1945. Disproves you comment easily. And for easier reading comprehension there is this simplified:

 

Sam is credited with 36 official PGA Tour wins from 1936-1945.

He then had 46 more official PGA Tour wins from 1946-1965. IOW after WWII.

 

Oops.

Edited September 27, 2021 by grm24

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, bunta said:

 

im sorry, were you on tour ?

I've been up close to most of the current crop and the three I mentioned have incredible ball striking. It's not news to anyone except SW.

[TheDeanAbides]

9 hours ago, isaacbm said:

Someone who can consistently control the bottom of the swing Arc and match face to path with speed. 

 

Moe did not have one shot. That’s ridiculous.  I watched him hit driver off hard pan, driver out of divots , driver out of fairway bunkers. 
     High, low, left to right, right to left,

Do you know how hard it is to hit it dead straight in a crosswind? 
     Nearly every great player in the last 60 years has said that he is the best they’ve ever seen. 
      And he did it all in tournaments too. 

I think that if it's shot integrity and control of ball flight, there are only two players who've ever owned their swing and can be considered the greatest. That's Moe and Hogan. Damn, Moe completely changed his swing from one of beauty to the weird a** thing we see on YouTube and still hit the ball straighter than anyone. Hogan turned his already incredible swing into something else that allowed him to strike the ball better than anyone else as a cripple. 

Steve Williams can say what he likes, but Tiger has been a poor driver of the ball since changing to graphite. His iron play and recovery shots are legend, of course, but Moe and Hogan just didn't need to hit those shots.

This has nothing to do with best player/winner, but without that near deadly crash that screwed with Hogan's eyesight he would have been out of sight on major wins too. He was an excellent putter before then. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[hammersia]

I've watched a lot of pro golf in person since 1994. 

 

Best iron strikes: Olazabal

Worst driver: Olazabal

[TheDeanAbides]

6 minutes ago, hammersia said:

I've watched a lot of pro golf in person since 1994. 

 

Best iron strikes: Olazabal

Worst driver: Olazabal

I remember reading an interview with Faldo back in the 90s where he was asked about Oli. He said that he's going to have trouble with that weak grip and reverse pivot, and that proved prophetic. A swing designed to hit stinging iron shots, but with driver... ouch.