The Best Ball Striker Of All Time

[physasst]

Tiger was never great off the tee, but he's the best iron player IMO to EVER play the game. Hogan probably second and Nicklaus third. YMMV.

 

M

[Titleist99]

Best ball strikers......Ryder Cup team. It was fun to watch.

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, hammersia said:

Kim Jong Il says... hold my beer

 

"The round I have in mind took place in a setting far more punishing than any Open venue, and the 18-hole tally makes Miller’s sizzling score look like a number posted by a weekend chop. I’m referring to—what else?—the 38-under-par 34 reportedly fired by the late North Korean despot Kim Jong Il, a man known to his people as Dear Leader and to you and me as Dear Top-the-Leader Board. According to official North Korean state accounts, Kim’s round, the first he’d ever played, was highlighted by five aces."

😆 I'm so glad someone posted this. 

[mat562]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:04 AM, CasualLie said:

Peak Duval would only work with chunky people.  Peak fitness Duval didn't win much.

 

Duval in 2000 and certainly 2001 had the permanent look of a man close to starvation in a North Korean labour camp deadlifting the back end of a Volkswagen Beetle with a gun to his head, but he hit the ball as well as pretty much anyone I've seen in my time watching the best golfers up close. His impact was awesome to behold. The crunching fizz that all the top tier strikers got.

Edited September 28, 2021 by mat562

[mat562]

It's obviously not a measure of ballstriking greatness per se, but I'll throw in another player who gets that crunching fizz: Boo Weekley.

[jonsnow]

7 hours ago, physasst said:

Tiger was never great off the tee, but he's the best iron player IMO to EVER play the game. Hogan probably second and Nicklaus third. YMMV.

 

M

I believe Tiger was pretty dang great off the tee until he changed to graphite (2004 maybe?). I guess he felt he needed to go to graphite so others wouldn't close the distance gap on him, but at the cost of some accuracy.

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, jonsnow said:

I believe Tiger was pretty dang great off the tee until he changed to graphite (2004 maybe?). I guess he felt he needed to go to graphite so others wouldn't close the distance gap on him, but at the cost of some accuracy.

My belief is that he caught a case of the driver yips from Hank Haney.

[iBanesto]

10 hours ago, physasst said:

Tiger was never great off the tee, but he's the best iron player IMO to EVER play the game. Hogan probably second and Nicklaus third. YMMV.

 

M

 

Tiger with the Titleist 975D with X100 shaft was his prime driving the ball.

 

He was so far ahead of the field.

[dlygrisse]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

My belief is that he caught a case of the driver yips from Hank Haney.

Tiger never learned to hit the modern driver properly.  He still uses the short tee designed for 250 cc heads.  A modern 460 head with a 45” shaft needs a level or upward AOA. Tiger has every shot in the bag but that one. 

[iBanesto]

https://www.pgatour.com/long-form/2019/04/09/golf-clubs-equipment-through-the-years-driver-nike-tiger-woods-history-augusta-national-masters-tournament.html

THE EARLY DRIVER

In 1997, Tiger used a Titleist 975D with 7.5 degrees loft. Bobka kept about six driver heads in his office, either 6.5 or 7.5 degrees loft, and occasionally Tiger would mess around with the 6.5. The swing weights were D4, which Tiger preferred on every club from driver through pitching wedge, with his other wedges a little heavier, around D6.

Tiger used a 43.5-inch steel-shafted driver during his time at Titleist. He tried various graphite shafts to see if he could pick up yardage, but then the question became: Could he control it? “He just never felt like at that time that he could find something that was consistent,” Bobka said. “Now, you’re talking about graphite shafts from late-‘90s compared to how well graphite shafts are made now, in the year 2019 it’s a totally different story.

 

“He never played graphite in a Titleist driver. When he went to Nike that’s when he started showing up with graphite shafts.”

The driver head size was no larger than 300cc – small compared to modern-day driver heads with legal limits at 460cc. Bobka estimated Tiger’s ballspeed to be 178-180 mph at the time.

“We really never measured [clubhead speed],” Bobka says, “but if you go off of ball speed, I think what they calculate it at is about 70-80 percent of what the ballspeed was, so you’re probably talking about in the upper 120s. He was fast.”

Edited September 29, 2021 by iBanesto

[Nels55]

29 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

Tiger never learned to hit the modern driver properly.  He still uses the short tee designed for 250 cc heads.  A modern 460 head with a 45” shaft needs a level or upward AOA. Tiger has every shot in the bag but that one. 

My understanding is that Tiger hit his driver great on the range and in practice rounds which is one reason why I said that he got the driver yips from Hank Haney.  Hank had had a really serious case of the driver yips and at one point he would not even play golf because of his yips.

[BigTreble]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:05 AM, grm24 said:

No. You might want to check your numbers more closely. And if you actually drill down even further between the late 1941-1945 time frame you will find that Sam won more even more official events outside of WWII that you want to give him credit for.

 

Sam "only" won 10 events during late 1941 through 1945. Disproves you comment easily. And for easier reading comprehension there is this simplified:

 

Sam is credited with 36 official PGA Tour wins from 1936-1945.

He then had 46 more official PGA Tour wins from 1946-1965. IOW after WWII.

 

Oops.

Thanks for the details

 

Already been corrected and reeducated.  Owned up to my mistake, Didn't pull or edit the post cause i screw up a lot and i guess if im bold enough  to post my opinion, im bold enough  to own up to my mistakes. 👍

[Stetson884]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:37 PM, dlygrisse said:

True.  Tiger was a master at controlling ball flight, distance and shaping it to all 9 windows, either direction.  Genius level stuff. BUT, he drove the ball like dog poopy for 1/2 his career, so I can’t say he was the best, hitting the driver counts in this conversation.  JMO. 

I agree. How can you say Tigers Driver set him apart from everything else ? Yes he could hit it far. Maybe 3 out of 10 times. Lol 

[dlygrisse]

6 hours ago, Stetson884 said:

I agree. How can you say Tigers Driver set him apart from everything else ? Yes he could hit it far. Maybe 3 out of 10 times. Lol 

Butch really had Tiger dialed in with the driver during that run from 1999 to 2001. Once Haney got involved he was stuck and flipping it again. I think his iron play got better with HH, I also think Phil got in his head when he switched to a Nike driver and the “inferior equipment” comment happened.  After that the story was always that he hit it good on the range…but when he got on the course he tried to kill it and he fired his hips and tried to crush it.  His 2019 swing looked much better, but he was obviously dialing back and swinging much more in sync to protect his back. 

[Ferguson]

On 9/25/2021 at 8:58 PM, aenemated said:

I honestly don’t get the Moe Norman thing. Not trying to be a troll but it just reminds me of people who say Sonic Youth is their favorite band.

 

Man, no one actually likes Sonic Youth, they just like saying they do.

 

Count me in.   I loathe discussions of Moe Norman.

[iBanesto]

17 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

Butch really had Tiger dialed in with the driver during that run from 1999 to 2001. Once Haney got involved he was stuck and flipping it again. I think his iron play got better with HH, I also think Phil got in his head when he switched to a Nike driver and the “inferior equipment” comment happened.  After that the story was always that he hit it good on the range…but when he got on the course he tried to kill it and he fired his hips and tried to crush it.  His 2019 swing looked much better, but he was obviously dialing back and swinging much more in sync to protect his back. 

 

Tiger's driving during his prime.

 

• 1997 - 2nd distance / 97th accuracy / 10th total driving
• 1998 - 2nd distance / 116th accuracy / 16th total driving
• 1999 - 3rd distance / 65th accuracy / 4th total driving
• 2000 - 2nd distance / 54th accuracy / 1st total driving
• 2001 - 3rd distance / 145th accuracy / 39th total driving
• 2002 - 6th distance / 107th accuracy / 11th total driving
• 2003 - 11th distance / 142nd accuracy / 45th total driving
• 2004 - 31st strokes gain off the tee
• 2005 - 4th strokes gain off the tee
• 2006 - 3rd strokes gain off the tee
• 2007 - 8th strokes gain off the tee
• 2008 - N/A
• 2009 - 41st strokes gain off the tee

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by iBanesto

[Stetson884]

On 9/28/2021 at 3:14 AM, iBanesto said:

Has anyone on GolfWRX actually seen Hogan hit a ball?

Shells Wonderful World Of Golf. Seen him in Match Play Against Sam Snead. I swore he was on Green in Regulation Every Damn Whole. Every Drive Was down the Middle. Every Approach Close to the Pin. He Tore Up Snead. But, Snead looked Passed his prime. A little bit older. 

[dbleag]

Jim Furyk has to be on the list as one of the best ball-strikers of all time.

 

Plenty of victories and sub-60 rounds with less than bountiful power.

 

He tends to be forgotten.

 

[mosesgolf]

Best Ball Striking all time

 

Tiger 2000  1997 1999-2008

Hogan 1953

Johnny Miller 1975

VJ 2004

Bobby Jones 1930

Nelson 1945

Nicklaus 1972, 1975, 1966, 1963

Palmer 1962

Tom Watson 1977 & 1980

 

Sorry for some others that were missed but these stick out big time for me.

 

[mosesgolf]

2 hours ago, Stetson884 said:

Shells Wonderful World Of Golf. Seen him in Match Play Against Sam Snead. I swore he was on Green in Regulation Every Damn Whole. Every Drive Was down the Middle. Every Approach Close to the Pin. He Tore Up Snead. But, Snead looked Passed his prime. A little bit older. 

Plenty of Hogan videos on youtube plus 1953 speaks for itself.  Hogan and Snead were same age.  Yes that was one amazing round by Mr. Hogan.

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, Stetson884 said:

Shells Wonderful World Of Golf. Seen him in Match Play Against Sam Snead. I swore he was on Green in Regulation Every Damn Whole. Every Drive Was down the Middle. Every Approach Close to the Pin. He Tore Up Snead. But, Snead looked Passed his prime. A little bit older. 

Sam Snead born May 27, 1912 and Ben Hogan was born Aug. 13, 1912 they were the same age.  Snead kept himself in great condition and won the Greater Greensboro Open in 1965 and became the oldest winner of a tour event at 52 years, 10 months and 8 days.  The wonderful world of golf match was played in 1965 so Snead was past his prime but still was capable of winning on tour.  It is possible that in 1965 Hogan was still the best ball striker in the world but he could not longer putt very well and he had a really hard time holding up physically for 4 tournament rounds.  

[Frankensteins Monster]

 

[Lobby]

The "Best Ball Striker of All Time" is somebody you've never heard of.   A guy, maybe a lady, who stripes the ball perfectly, every single time.

They're unknowns because they couldn't putt.  Or some other circumstance.

They're out there.

[Shakespeare]

46 minutes ago, Lobby said:

The "Best Ball Striker of All Time" is somebody you've never heard of.   A guy, maybe a lady, who stripes the ball perfectly, every single time.

They're unknowns because they couldn't putt.  Or some other circumstance.

They're out there.

This is so true.....we've all played with someone who didn't hit a bad shot when we played with them...ever...then stood over a two footer waiting for someone to give it to them

[Ghostwedge]

As a previous poster said, an unknown kid some gym rat may be the best 3 pt. shooter of all time but you need to bring it on your sport's highest stage. Thats not happening in a NBA game. Same in golf.

[Stetson884]

4 hours ago, Lobby said:

The "Best Ball Striker of All Time" is somebody you've never heard of.   A guy, maybe a lady, who stripes the ball perfectly, every single time.

They're unknowns because they couldn't putt.  Or some other circumstance.

They're out there.

What?! A lot Of PGA golfers rip it every time but can’t putt and still on on pga tour. Rory can’t putt. But he can hit the ball as good as anyone 

[dlygrisse]

8 hours ago, iBanesto said:

 

Tiger's driving during his prime.

 

• 1997 - 2nd distance / 97th accuracy / 10th total driving
• 1998 - 2nd distance / 116th accuracy / 16th total driving
• 1999 - 3rd distance / 65th accuracy / 4th total driving
• 2000 - 2nd distance / 54th accuracy / 1st total driving
• 2001 - 3rd distance / 145th accuracy / 39th total driving
• 2002 - 6th distance / 107th accuracy / 11th total driving
• 2003 - 11th distance / 142nd accuracy / 45th total driving
• 2004 - 31st strokes gain off the tee
• 2005 - 4th strokes gain off the tee
• 2006 - 3rd strokes gain off the tee
• 2007 - 8th strokes gain off the tee
• 2008 - N/A
• 2009 - 41st strokes gain off the tee

 

I wonder how the strokes gained stats were affected by the fact he was often hitting 3 wood off the tee?  Starting in 2001 his accuracy was horrible, just as I suspected.  By the time Haney was done with him, he had no idea how to hit a fairway with driver, 3 wood or 5 wood was his go to shot when he needed short grass.  His 2000 stats were other-worldly.  I mean no one had a chance when he was playing most weeks.  I still don't know what was more dominating, the US Open or The Open that year.   At least at St. Andrews some other guys showed up to play for a minute, so the margin of victory wasn't as big, but I honestly think his command over the golf ball was better than at Pebble.  

[dlygrisse]

7 hours ago, Stetson884 said:

Shells Wonderful World Of Golf. Seen him in Match Play Against Sam Snead. I swore he was on Green in Regulation Every Damn Whole. Every Drive Was down the Middle. Every Approach Close to the Pin. He Tore Up Snead. But, Snead looked Passed his prime. A little bit older. 

He hit every green and every fairway in regulation.  Funny thing I heard about that match.  I believe it was filmed over 2 days, or maybe one really long day as they had to move camera equipment around and it rained for a spell.  The greens and fairways were soft, but none the less, he held it together and had a "perfect" ball striking day.  Sneed say in the post round interview that it was one of the finest rounds of golf he had ever seen.  No doubt Hogan got his game in top shape for that match, as he was done as a competitor, and he wanted this to be sort of a last hurrah, on TV one-on-one with his greatest rival.  

 

They both had such great swings, I just think Hogan had a little more focus than Sam, Sam had the mental block with the US Open, alot like Phil.  Snead always felt he didn't get enough credit compared to Hogan, but Hogan got it done in some big moments.  It's a bit like comparing Tiger and Phil, although I would argue Sam was better than Phil overall, and Tiger was better than Hogan, at least for a longer period of time.  It would be fun to see 1953 Hogan going against 2000 Tiger, I give Tiger the edge because of his putting, ball striking Hogan was probably more precise.  Wish there was more footage.    

[aenemated]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:29 PM, mat562 said:

a man close to starvation in a North Korean labour camp deadlifting the back end of a Volkswagen Beetle with a gun to his head

 

"You'll work harder with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day, slave for soldiers till you starve and your head is skewered on a stake ... "

 

... sorry. Dead Kennedys moment. Carry on. 

[Shilgy]

41 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

I wonder how the strokes gained stats were affected by the fact he was often hitting 3 wood off the tee?  Starting in 2001 his accuracy was horrible, just as I suspected.  By the time Haney was done with him, he had no idea how to hit a fairway with driver, 3 wood or 5 wood was his go to shot when he needed short grass.  His 2000 stats were other-worldly.  I mean no one had a chance when he was playing most weeks.  I still don't know what was more dominating, the US Open or The Open that year.   At least at St. Andrews some other guys showed up to play for a minute, so the margin of victory wasn't as big, but I honestly think his command over the golf ball was better than at Pebble.  

His accuracy issues are overstated by many.  Would you take an extra 17 yards on every hole instead of hitting two more fairways per round? Assuming they are still in bounds of course.?  That was the margin between 2001 Tiger off the tee vs Joe Durant who was very accurate off the tee.