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Those who embraced the inner slash...how did it turn out?


WristySwing
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First off, haven't posted here in a long time.  Lost my password and couldn't be arsed to try and figure it out.  I have been in the fitting industry for half my life, so I've seen and know a thing or two, so just a fair warning, I'm not going to respond well to any loft jacking jokesters or the "just hit a blade 5 iron instead of a GI 7 iron".  I promise I probably know more than you and can argue until my death bed about the physics and engineering behind golf club design, spin loft, descent angle, etc. etc.  In short, if that's all you're going to contribute to this: don't bother and move on.  Sorry, I know that was super pretentious but I've been on this site originally since 2005/2006 and I know how it can get when anyone even mentions an iron with a six iron stronger than 29.99 degrees.   

Anyways, to the point.  I am not that good of a player.  Woefully average at best.  I play maybe 5 times a year, 10 times a year I'd fall over from shock I was able to get out that much.  I currently play some MP-20 HMBs I was gifted from my Mizuno rep last year.  Lovely, lovely iron when I am on.  They feel amazing, launch high, go like stink and look great.  Basically everything a low-mid 80s shooter wants with just enough help in them when I am playing poorly but just enough bag appeal that it strokes my ego in all that right spots.  I'm at a point in my life where I was thinking back a decade ago when I had a Wilson Spine Square driver, Nike SQ Square hybrids, and MacGregor NVG2 irons.  Walking up to the tee I looked like any 90s-100 shooter at any given muni on any given Sunday.  But gosh darn did I have fun playing and got my handicap down as low as it has ever been (high 5s) and I shot consistently some of the best rounds of my life in the low to mid 70s multiple times that year on some quite difficult golf course.  I am willing to accept that some of that was just playing more often but I still only played maybe 25x that year, so not a lot by many avid player standards.  That got me thinking maybe it was the clubs.

 

My question is, have any of you left your ego at the door and just said F*** it and went fat, forgiving, and ugly?  Did it work long term or did you find that it didn't really help as much as you'd hoped?  I am looking at the RadSpeeds or G425s...part of me after that stellar TXG review of the Launcher XL Halo has me reaching for my credit card for those.  I am not in the industry anymore due to a different career path, but I am still friendly with all my contacts so while a fitting is still a possibility and still the best answer, I really just don't have the time to do it right now and I am an impulsive person.  Everything about my swing and what I know from fitting mechanics, I am shallow about 3* down on it, I come about 3-4* from the inside, I have an early release....typical 80s shooter swing...tells me these types of irons are not right for me.  I would need a preworn leading edge/thinner sole, less offset, a toe screw to stop the over-cook left, etc. 

 

However, with all that said...I just can't stop thinking about 10 years ago and how much fun I had playing with those irons.  A little extra distance wouldn't be the worst thing in the world and I really couldn't care less if I have a 43* PW vs. a 46* PW; I'll find the yardage it goes and hit it that far...simple.  The main thing I want is to just go out and have fun and be able to hit it all over the face and watch it fly kind of close to my intended line.  I have thought about lessons too but I have had enough of them over the years and I know what I need to work on --- along with almost no ability to work on this stuff at home/at a range without an exorbitant cost, I'd rather just throw money at clubs and hope for the best.


Thanks!  (and again apologize to those who are actually helpful about the snot-nosed opening...you know how this site can get sometimes).

Edited by WristySwing
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Jk. 

 

I'm sure there are several out there who have gone full on SGI, and have more fun because of it.  

You are a candidate - tough to really groove a swing when playing that infrequently ... although it can be done.

 

I had some G400 irons in a backup set at one point.  I didn't score better (granted, the numbers were anecdotal), and had less satisfaction hitting them for whatever reason ... so back to zx7  for me in gamer bag, and z745 in backup bag.  Just have more fun with them, and equal or better result.

 

My thoughts are that you can make most equipment work for you.  In the right circumstances, GI irons are absolutely the right choice.  I'm glad I tried them.  May try again at some point, although graphite will be the next experiment.  Probably a nice tweener iron, like i210.  Cog is pretty low for that type of iron, and distance consistency was phenomenal.

Edited by morgan1819
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Prime candidate for G425’s

play your best

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'16 TM M2 10.5º lowered AD-DI 7x
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Nike forged blades Modus 105x

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Cameron Tei3 Newport


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PXG XP irons....large, easy to hit, long and best feel/sound of all.

Have fun!

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CALLAWAY Customs (Black w/Silver) "The FREAK" Mavrik Sub Zero Driver, 9* (10*), Accra TZ6/M5 72g X

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PXG GEN4 0311XP, Xtreme Dark, 5 - 6, CT Lite LE Black X; GEN0311PXtreme Dark, 7 - 8 CT Lite LE Black X, 9 - GW, PX 6.5 Blackout 

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@MtlJeffYou feel like getting yelled at by an internet stranger?

 

As to the question, I’m a 5 handicap and a decent ball striker… I got fit recently for srixons and hit both the 5s and the 7s… the 7s are great! But didn’t improve my dispersion. I bought the 5s and love them.

 

if you aren’t playing a ton, i think it makes sense to buy equipment built to help your misses rather than maximize the potential of your best strikes. 
 

Im a lot more judgemental of the 20+ cap playing ventus blue shafts than I am

the 3 cap playing SGI. 

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13 Degree Srixon 3 wood Project X Black 6.5

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SeeMore milled Tri-Mallet fit and built at SeeMore 

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Multiple times....Rapture-Karsten 2014 - HI Bore[originals]  list goes on.......each time I end up back at a very small iron footprint 

 

While the shovels provide great joy with ease of hitting..... soles are just way too wide! I end up with a broken swing & game[hdcp presently at 3]

Edited by animalgolfs
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I have a problem hooking and have gone the route of getting older higher lofted irons and less offset and a high flight shaft to compensate and my iron accuracy has improved significantly.

 

I see there are a lot of people that go the route of hitting their irons farther but I want spin so that all my irons up to the 5 iron stop quickly.

 

Some will point out that offset in irons don't cause hooking - but nonetheless I personally can't get them up in the air or hit them straight.  Still, if the offset in irons doesn't cause hooking I suppose it won't help a slice either so whats the point?  😉

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I think that the way a club looks to your eye at setup is extremely important, not the most, but important.  I was looking at the Halo and my eye just can’t accept it.  In order to change that they would have to be so much more accurate and longer, but the swing in the end matters more.

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The advantages of the typical SGI set are greater total distance for a given club “number”, and reduced distance drop off for non-centered impacts.

 

For that, you pay a heavy toll.

 

As @animalgolfs points out, in order to achieve adequate height, their soles tend to be wide to the point where if you have an appropriate down and through attack pattern, they will merely bounce, potentially wrecking your swing.

 

The increased sweet zone is only of help if all your attack angles are otherwise correct. In other words, you’re making perfect but non-centered contact. That’s what you’re seeing in videos like TXG. The reality is that most misses have some angular deviation, in which case your SGI club will go further in the wrong direction.

 

The great killer is reduced spin. When your 7 iron is generating 4000 rpm’s, it’s virtually impossible to hold any green. If you’re used to scoring in the 70’s or 80’s, that get’s old really quick.

 

There are far better options if you want a newer set. 

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I hate to give the standard wrx answer of “you need to try them” but it’s hard to know imho.  I tried to check my ego and get some gi irons maybe 18 months ago and I didn’t get along with them.  It was a turf interaction thing.  I’m shallow, and was even shallower at the time and I just didn’t get through the turf well with a really wide bottomed club.  I would strongly suspect, however, that I’m in the minority.  I would guess that most non + handicap golfers on here would benefit with a more forgiving club than what they currently play.  While SGI was not a good fit for me I have no doubt that the x forged cb I’m using right now are not the best fit for me (3.4 hcp as of today).  I play well with them, and really enjoy them, but a little more forgiveness would be ideal.

If you know you get along with wide soles clubs then I would definitely think about those halo’s if you only play a handful of times a year.  If I did not play as much as I do then different irons would be absolutely needed.  The g425’s seem like a good compromise if you can’t bring yourself to go full halo.  Or the g710’s if you like the HMB’s but want more forgiveness.  
Those of us that don’t get paid to play have to really ask ourselves what makes the game fun.  I love sexy irons, and if I’m honest with myself and willing to give up a little scoring potential to play something that I love the way looks at address.  If I played less, and the penalty of playing them were higher, then that opinion would change.  It sounds to me like SGI will help you enjoy the game more when you get out, so I would do it.

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1 hour ago, Jeff58 said:

The advantages of the typical SGI set are greater total distance for a given club “number”, and reduced distance drop off for non-centered impacts.

 

For that, you pay a heavy toll.

 

As @animalgolfs points out, in order to achieve adequate height, their soles tend to be wide to the point where if you have an appropriate down and through attack pattern, they will merely bounce, potentially wrecking your swing.

 

The increased sweet zone is only of help if all your attack angles are otherwise correct. In other words, you’re making perfect but non-centered contact. That’s what you’re seeing in videos like TXG. The reality is that most misses have some angular deviation, in which case your SGI club will go further in the wrong direction.

 

The great killer is reduced spin. When your 7 iron is generating 4000 rpm’s, it’s virtually impossible to hold any green. If you’re used to scoring in the 70’s or 80’s, that get’s old really quick.

 

There are far better options if you want a newer set. 

 

Thanks for the input.  The spin is not really an issue for me.  In my fitting days on GCHawk I could hit a blueprint at 30* and an XXIO Prime 25* 6i with completely different shafts and have a similar dynamic loft and spin window.  They would typically launch around 17*, with a  delivered loft around 27*, be 3* down on it, 3* in-out, spin around 5000RPMs off of a good mat, with a descent angle over 45*.  Spin, peak height, and stopping power has never been an issue for me.  I am just looking at the forgiveness aspect of smashing one toe/heel side or catching it a bit thin/heavy, which is my miss with my early release.  Most often my swing is repeatable-ish, I'm just not hitting the middle as often as I would like.  Low point control is my biggest thing, not face angle control.

Edited by WristySwing
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Started playing with the burners with the eye on the back for my first real GI clubs and never seen a GI after that where I paid a price for using them or a toll. Ball stops fine on greens and flies as straight as any blade. Game improvement doesn’t mean you are missing out on anything other than bringing front bunkers more into play . Not that a GI won’t go in a front bunker but sometimes it gets over on a less than adequate hit. Long live technology. 

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Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
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56 degree SW Vokey SM7
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I've been between a 0 and 3 for the past 10-15 years and have used Ping G's on multiple occasions.

 

I would say the 2 best seasons i've ever had were both either with Gs full time or partially

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6 hours ago, WristySwing said:

My question is, have any of you left your ego at the door and just said F*** it and went fat, forgiving, and ugly? 

We are talking about golf clubs here right???

🤣

Sorry, couldn’t resist!
I could play Ping G425s, but draw the line before Cleveland HALO XLs. I’m one that needs to like the aesthetics of my equipment. G425 is on that edge for me. 
Check out Mizuno 921 Hot Metals. Quite a bit friendlier than the HMBs, yet still quite nice looking. 

Edited by TiScape
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I've come to find I wear a lot more top hats.

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Titleist 915H 21° - Diamana Blue 70 S
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I play a similar number of rounds (about 5-10 a year), but do practice at the range quite a bit.  I’ve been going back and forth between Ping Blueprint and Callaway Apex DCB this year, which are on opposite sides of the spectrum.  I don’t currently find the DCB to be easier to hit than the Blueprint but something seems off with my iron swing at the moment, so that my change when it gets back to normal.  I can confidently conclude that it is pretty hard to control distance with the DCB.  I blast the ball way over the green sometimes (often upward of 30 yards), whereas I know  the Blueprint simply can’t do that and is easier to predict.

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Good to see you back!

I am considering doing this with long irons for sure since I don't play enough to keep from losing strokes with less forgiving 3/4/5 irons, but as yet I don't have a compelling reason to it below those. 

Also @TiScape, that was f****** funny. 😆

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Taylormade M5 19* Tensei Pro White 90TX || TItleist 915FD 18* Fujikura Motore VC 9.2 Tour Spec X 
Srixon ZX Utility 20* HZRDUS Red 105 6.5 || Taylormade RSI UDI 20* Kuro Kage 100XTS Hybrid  
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8 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Good to see you back!

I am considering doing this with long irons for sure since I don't play enough to keep from losing strokes with less forgiving 3/4/5 irons, but as yet I don't have a compelling reason to it below those. 

Also @TiScape, that was f****** funny. 😆

I played G2 HL for years....its the one spot where a wide sole is beneficial......once you learn that swing

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6 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

Thanks for the input.  The spin is not really an issue for me.  In my fitting days on GCHawk I could hit a blueprint at 30* and an XXIO Prime 25* 6i with completely different shafts and have a similar dynamic loft and spin window.  They would typically launch around 17*, with a  delivered loft around 27*, be 3* down on it, 3* in-out, spin around 5000RPMs off of a good mat, with a descent angle over 45*.  Spin, peak height, and stopping power has never been an issue for me.  I am just looking at the forgiveness aspect of smashing one toe/heel side or catching it a bit thin/heavy, which is my miss with my early release.  Most often my swing is repeatable-ish, I'm just not hitting the middle as often as I would like.  Low point control is my biggest thing, not face angle control.


For what it’s worth….

 

Beware the mat-based demo/fitting. It’s pretty common knowledge at this point that a mat, particularly a quality one, provides far less resistance than actual turf conditions. The effect for irons is higher spin numbers, as you’re seeing. 5000 rpm’s off a mat with a wide sole iron can often result in 4000 in actual play, which is bounce-city.


With several of the most recent models, there’s no reason to use a “traditional” SGI-bodied iron set for virtually anyone, unless you just like the look. The ZX5, T300, and Apex DCB for example provide SGI-type performance and forgiveness in a far more compact and visually appealing package IMO.

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While we’re at it why not add a few easy to hit hybrids or 7 and 9 woods? I use 3 , 4, and 5 hybrids . Much of the last two years a 6 hybrid though I added a PXG XP 6 iron last week. 

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Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
Odyssey White Hot V-Line Fang

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 I agree with @Jeff58 , a T300

or ZX5 would be good options instead of going full out SGI. And if you don’t like them, the resale loss is nowhere near as bad as a SGI. 
 

With the “help built in” game improvement irons like ZX5, etc. I think getting the right shaft is the key. The same head can be a dream or a hook monster, depending on the shaft. 

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About 5 years ago I tweaked my back, and my game went down the toilet and I lost all confidence. Got a set of callaway rogues, and 21 and 24 deg hybrids (longest iron was a 6 iron). Regained confidence, got some speed back when the injury healed, and the rogues went insanely high (stock stiff shaft, whatever that was - I remember it was pretty light). With the weighting of the GI/SGI irons and the lighter shafts I found that they just launched too high- really forgiving, but not great when a 7 iron almost goes up your own nose.

 Still carry a weird mix of long irons and hybrids (17 degree hybrid, 21 degree srixon 585 4 iron, then the 24 degree hybrid - matching irons start at a 28deg 6 iron) that work on the course I play most often.

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Why is everyone so hell bent against SGI? I’ve got a set of blades from the 80’s and SGI W/S Launch Pads. The Pads are laced with Px 5.5 steel shafts. No difference in my scores other than when one day is better than the previous. Consistency is key for me, which at 2-3 days a week of play every other 28 days , that being due to a job that requires me being on the Mississippi River for those 28 days. I’m totally comfortable with either  of my sets! I say play what fits your eye AND you’re most comfortable with, regardless of the club head type. Find something that FITS your swing and enjoy the game. Ask 25 folks , which iron they recommend, and you’ll get 23 different answers. I can put the Px 5.5 in any club head and play it. Right golf clubs shaft goes a king way. Good luck in your search!!

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Not sure I'd call it embracing my inner slash, but I do have a set of GI irons on order. I was intrigued by the reviews and the price. It also rounds out my iron collection. I will have blades, CB's, split cavities, and hollow bodies.

 

I'm just interested in how they play in comparison.

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Byrdie Golf Designs split cavity 4-PW

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My Cleveland Launcher HBs are as ugly as sin. I don't care. They work.

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Cleveland Launcher HB Driver 10.5 degree

Cleveland Launcher Halo Hybrids 16, 19, 22 degree

Cleveland Launcher HB Irons 5-SW

Cleveland CBX 2 Wedge 60 degree

All with senior flex graphite shafts

JumboMax Ultra Lite size M on driver, size S on the rest

Taylor Made Daddy Long Legs putter, Winn Dri-Tac Jumbo Lite Pistol Putter Grip

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20 hours ago, WristySwing said:

First off, haven't posted here in a long time.  Lost my password and couldn't be arsed to try and figure it out.  I have been in the fitting industry for half my life, so I've seen and know a thing or two, so just a fair warning, I'm not going to respond well to any loft jacking jokesters or the "just hit a blade 5 iron instead of a GI 7 iron".  I promise I probably know more than you and can argue until my death bed about the physics and engineering behind golf club design, spin loft, descent angle, etc. etc.  In short, if that's all you're going to contribute to this: don't bother and move on.  Sorry, I know that was super pretentious but I've been on this site originally since 2005/2006 and I know how it can get when anyone even mentions an iron with a six iron stronger than 29.99 degrees.   

Anyways, to the point.  I am not that good of a player.  Woefully average at best.  I play maybe 5 times a year, 10 times a year I'd fall over from shock I was able to get out that much.  I currently play some MP-20 HMBs I was gifted from my Mizuno rep last year.  Lovely, lovely iron when I am on.  They feel amazing, launch high, go like stink and look great.  Basically everything a low-mid 80s shooter wants with just enough help in them when I am playing poorly but just enough bag appeal that it strokes my ego in all that right spots.  I'm at a point in my life where I was thinking back a decade ago when I had a Wilson Spine Square driver, Nike SQ Square hybrids, and MacGregor NVG2 irons.  Walking up to the tee I looked like any 90s-100 shooter at any given muni on any given Sunday.  But gosh darn did I have fun playing and got my handicap down as low as it has ever been (high 5s) and I shot consistently some of the best rounds of my life in the low to mid 70s multiple times that year on some quite difficult golf course.  I am willing to accept that some of that was just playing more often but I still only played maybe 25x that year, so not a lot by many avid player standards.  That got me thinking maybe it was the clubs.

 

My question is, have any of you left your ego at the door and just said F*** it and went fat, forgiving, and ugly?  Did it work long term or did you find that it didn't really help as much as you'd hoped?  I am looking at the RadSpeeds or G425s...part of me after that stellar TXG review of the Launcher XL Halo has me reaching for my credit card for those.  I am not in the industry anymore due to a different career path, but I am still friendly with all my contacts so while a fitting is still a possibility and still the best answer, I really just don't have the time to do it right now and I am an impulsive person.  Everything about my swing and what I know from fitting mechanics, I am shallow about 3* down on it, I come about 3-4* from the inside, I have an early release....typical 80s shooter swing...tells me these types of irons are not right for me.  I would need a preworn leading edge/thinner sole, less offset, a toe screw to stop the over-cook left, etc. 

 

However, with all that said...I just can't stop thinking about 10 years ago and how much fun I had playing with those irons.  A little extra distance wouldn't be the worst thing in the world and I really couldn't care less if I have a 43* PW vs. a 46* PW; I'll find the yardage it goes and hit it that far...simple.  The main thing I want is to just go out and have fun and be able to hit it all over the face and watch it fly kind of close to my intended line.  I have thought about lessons too but I have had enough of them over the years and I know what I need to work on --- along with almost no ability to work on this stuff at home/at a range without an exorbitant cost, I'd rather just throw money at clubs and hope for the best.


Thanks!  (and again apologize to those who are actually helpful about the snot-nosed opening...you know how this site can get sometimes).

 

I mean, the HMBs are pretty nice and fit an 80's shooter. But Mizuno HMPs or even Honma TW-X - fat sole, not much offset, good top line but with a more acceptable blade length than HMB (not as long heel to toe). But possibly just as forgiving as HMB with 1 degree stronger lofts. But HMP's are possibly a good choice.

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Father, Wannabe Golfer, Observer of Peeps


A Bag in Flux:

 

Ping G425 Max 10.5/Alta 55S (shaft to be fitted) ● Two of Honma TR21 3, 4, 5, 7 ● Ping G425 20.5 HY/TPT Golf ● Honma TW-X 5-PW/Mitsu MMT 85g ● Artisan 50, 55, 59/Nippon 105 ● Artisan 0521 Putter

 

Options: Epic Speed 4, 7 wd/Riptide 60/70, Mizuno T22 Copper Wedges and Mizuno ST-G22 Driver - From THP-MIzuno 2021 Experience or Mizuno MP-20 HMB 5-PW Accra ICWT95, Mizuno STZ 3, 5 wd/Motore F3 6 ● Callaway Epic Speed Driver 9/TPT

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20 hours ago, morgan1819 said:

Jk. 

 

I'm sure there are several out there who have gone full on SGI, and have more fun because of it.  

You are a candidate - tough to really groove a swing when playing that infrequently ... although it can be done.

 

I had some G400 irons in a backup set at one point.  I didn't score better (granted, the numbers were anecdotal), and had less satisfaction hitting them for whatever reason ... so back to zx7  for me in gamer bag, and z745 in backup bag.  Just have more fun with them, and equal or better result.

 

My thoughts are that you can make most equipment work for you.  In the right circumstances, GI irons are absolutely the right choice.  I'm glad I tried them.  May try again at some point, although graphite will be the next experiment.  Probably a nice tweener iron, like i210.  Cog is pretty low for that type of iron, and distance consistency was phenomenal.

 

20 hours ago, bladestriker said:

Prime candidate for G425’s

play your best

 

There is just something so timeless about the Ping G series, which is why they are on my short list.  I know I get along just fine with most of their stock shafts and could play either the Modus 105, AWT 2.0, Dynamic Gold 120, or KBS Tour and be just fine.  All of them are shafts I have used and liked in the past.  The retro-spec also has me intrigued and I could add a couple of hybrids or a 7 wood - hybrid combo at the top end.

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Taylormade SIM 9* - Aldila Rogue Silver

Cobra SpeedZone Tour Big 3 wood - Veylix Arcane

Callaway Rogue SZ 5 wood - Diamana Thump 85

PXG 0211DC 5-P - Elevate Tour

Titleist SM8 50, 54, 58 - Accra 123i

Bettinardi Prototype/Scotty Cameron T22 Newport

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