Significant weightshift adds 12 mph to my swing

[chipa]

I've been back in golf for 2 years now and have tried many methods seen on the forum to make my swing better. Based on the advice of one instructor I bought a radar because he pointed out that clubhead speed is a function of the efficiency of the swing all things being equal. My swing has certainly evolved and I have especially liked learning from Ben Hogan, Bobby Jones and Tommy Armour. Lately I have been focusing on Rocco Mediates and Manuel de La Torres swing methods.

 

With all the methods I've tried I have come to the conclusion that given the same "perceived effort" when I get a good weightshift my clubhead speed is on average 12 mph faster with my 41.5" 7 wood. Generally, if I try to stay centered I can swing it around 87 mph, but if I let my weight move to my right side it's always around 99. If I really load my right side it can jump to 104 or more.

 

What I feel on the downswing initially is that both my hands pull down and I feel the space between my legs increase before my right leg turns in and drives to the target.

 

Also, the significant weightshift changes my arm and hand mechanics as well. It feels as if my right arm and hand function as one while my left hand and arm function as two - the left hand to the wrist joint and the left arm. This enables the right hand to swing as hard as it can without being hindered by the left arm connection to the body. If I don't get a good weighshift I find it difficult to get into this position.

 

My technique for loading my right side comes exclusively from pushing from the left. For those with a one piece takeaway this can happen naturally if the hips turn during the takeaway to allow the weight to get on the right side. I however, turn my left hand and wrist over to start then push both back as far as I need to based on how hard I am trying to swing. I also like to feel like I am rebounding off my right side.

 

BTW, it was studying Ben Hogan's teaching and swing that convinced me the right leg is important for a powerful swing.

[Hawkeye77]

Please share the video of executing this groundbreaking move so others may benefit from your extensive research.  Need to see it successfully implemented.

 

Is it the same secret as this? 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[chipa]

23 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Please share the video of executing this groundbreaking move so others may benefit from your extensive research.  Need to see it successfully implemented.

 

Is it the same secret as this? 

 

 

Hawkeye I'm like many here trying to learn the golf swing and help others.

 

Might I ask what positive contributions you have for the rest of us?

[Hawkeye77]

44 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

Hawkeye I'm like many here trying to learn the golf swing and help others.

 

Might I ask what positive contributions you have for the rest of us?

 

If you don't want to share the positive evidence of the revelation and help others then don't.  

 

One thing I don't do is make claims about aspects of the golf swing that I don't really know anything about or try and tell those who have studied it for years and put thousands of hours into it that they are wrong, as you have.  I try to listen and learn from them.

 

People need to see this in action - please share.  

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[Precis1on]

Weight, as in pounds, doesn't (or shouldn't) shift all that much at all in a golf swing. Feeling that as pressure, yes pressure shifts a lot in the golf swing.  

[jomatty]

Not sure what makes this post need to be attacked…maybe there is history I’m not aware of

Edited September 26, 2021 by jomatty

[Hawkeye77]

6 minutes ago, jomatty said:

Not sure what makes this post need to be attacked…maybe there is history I’m not aware of

Not an "attack" in any sense of the word, so no need to throw it out there.

 

Looking for a demonstration of what this revolutionary (by OP's accounts in several other threads) method looks like.   

 

Nothing more to it.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[chipa]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

If you don't want to share the positive evidence of the revelation and help others then don't.  

 

One thing I don't do is make claims about aspects of the golf swing that I don't really know anything about or try and tell those who have studied it for years and put thousands of hours into it that they are wrong, as you have.  I try to listen and learn from them.

 

People need to see this in action - please share.  

 

 

 

If you want to see perfect leg action look at a lot of pros, including Hogan.

 

[chipa]

 

18 minutes ago, jomatty said:

Not sure what makes this post need to be attacked…maybe there is history I’m not aware of

 

My opinions apparently are not taken well by Hawkeye, who follows me around at times.

 

The way I look at it plenty of players of all abilities offer their advice on the forum, and I'm no different, I think it is positive to try to help fellow golfers with any insight one may have learned.

[ChipStrokes]

18 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Not an "attack" in any sense of the word, so no need to throw it out there.

pretty significant amount of snark in your original response that wasn’t really warranted. 

 

so yea, there was a need to throw it out there. 

[jomatty]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Not an "attack" in any sense of the word, so no need to throw it out there.

 

Looking for a demonstration of what this revolutionary (by OP's accounts in several other threads) method looks like.   

 

Nothing more to it.

My bad.  I guess I didn’t realize that you were genuinely interested in a technique you find “groundbreaking”.  I mistakenly thought you were using the word “groundbreaking”  in a belittling way, but now I know that you just had a genuine interest…

[ChipStrokes]

3 minutes ago, jomatty said:

My bad.  I guess I didn’t realize that you were genuinely interested in a technique you find “groundbreaking”.  I mistakenly thought you were using the word “groundbreaking”  in a belittling way, but now I know that you just had a genuine interest…

he meant it exactly as you read it. 

 

but he’ll come back in here and say he didn’t. 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, chipa said:

 

 

My opinions apparently are not taken well by Hawkeye, who follows me around at times.

 

The way I look at it plenty of players of all abilities offer their advice on the forum, and I'm no different, I think it is positive to try to help fellow golfers with any insight one may have learned.

Don’t follow you around at all, lol. 
 

I’ve seen Hogan swing and probably read a few dozen different folks who get paid for teaching golf explain parts of it. 
 

I won’t agree that he pushes with his left, shifts his weight right then shifts his weight left and pushes the swing through with his right foot while using  his left arm in two different ways on the way through to also allow his right hand to do whatever. 
 

You claim this works, if you don’t want to share no problem. But please don’t bring Ben Hogan into this. 
 

Carry on!

[chipa]

6 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Don’t follow you around at all, lol. 
 

I’ve seen Hogan swing and probably read a few dozen different folks who get paid for teaching golf explain parts of it. 
 

I won’t agree that he pushes with his left, shifts his weight right then shifts his weight left and pushes the swing through with his right foot while using  his left arm in two different ways on the way through to also allow his right hand to do whatever. 
 

You claim this works, if you don’t want to share no problem. But please don’t bring Ben Hogan into this. 
 

Carry on!

 

I explained my personal mechanics and only claimed I learned to push off the right leg from Hogan - but you already know that.

 

My advice is to you when others offer positive advice is to be more positive, life is easier that way.

[pingfool]

So are we getting a video? I’d like to see this right foot thing in action. 

[wagolfer7]

8 hours ago, chipa said:

With all the methods I've tried I have come to the conclusion that given the same "perceived effort" when I get a good weightshift my clubhead speed is on average 12 mph faster with my 41.5" 7 wood. Generally, if I try to stay centered I can swing it around 87 mph, but if I let my weight move to my right side it's always around 99. If I really load my right side it can jump to 104 or more.

 

 

I think you need to check your radar accuracy. Your swinging that 7 wood faster than the average PGA player does a 5 wood.  If numbers are accurate, you'd have the highest swing speed on the champions tour. 

 

Not attacking you @chipa. Just saying the numbers you give, are highly unlikely.  Not impossible,  but would be truly impressive.  

 

Also a 15mph range is huge from swing to swing.  Especially a 7 wood.  

[chipa]

13 hours ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

I think you need to check your radar accuracy. Your swinging that 7 wood faster than the average PGA player does a 5 wood.  If numbers are accurate, you'd have the highest swing speed on the champions tour. 

 

Not attacking you @chipa. Just saying the numbers you give, are highly unlikely.  Not impossible,  but would be truly impressive.  

 

Also a 15mph range is huge from swing to swing.  Especially a 7 wood.  

 

The tour ave for a 5 wood is 103 mph and I only have beat that really swinging hard. I once was measured at 128 mph with a 43.5" driver (I was in my 30's). I am also pretty fit for a guy at 56 and do weightraining.

 

As far as the difference in clubhead speed yes it is a lot and surprised me too that's why I thought I start a thread to let people know how to increase their clubhead speed with a little practice.

Edited September 27, 2021 by chipa

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, chipa said:

 

The tour ave for a 5 wood is 103 mph and I only have beat that really swinging hard. I once was measured at 128 mph with a 43.5" driver. I am also pretty fit for a guy at 56 and do weightraining.

 

As far as the difference in clubhead speed yes it is a lot and surprised me too that's why I thought I start a thread to let people know how to increase their clubhead speed with a little practice.

Which is why they need to see the swing.  Assuming the speed increase is real and accurately measured people need to see the swing that results from this "method" so they know whether it is a swing worth emulating.  Speed in a vacuum is meaningless.

[chipa]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Which is why they need to see the swing.  Assuming the speed increase is real and accurately measured people need to see the swing that results from this "method" so they know whether it is a swing worth emulating.  Speed in a vacuum is meaningless.

 

My technique is not perfect, it would be much better to imitate a pro, and some do it differently. 

 

[Hawkeye77]

9 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

My technique is not perfect, it would be much better to imitate a pro, and some do it differently. 

 

Nobody should simply imitate pros and you make the unwarranted assumption that pros implement what you claim is your method.  

 

If you can't demonstrate the method and the gains, how is that helping people?

[juststeve]

Chipa:

 

Over a period of 2 years bu your own count you have tried 5 swing methods.  Had you chosen one at the beginning of you two years of experimentation and stuck  with that and that alone you would be striking the ball much better than you are now.

 

Steve

 

 

[chipa]

27 minutes ago, juststeve said:

Chipa:

 

Over a period of 2 years bu your own count you have tried 5 swing methods.  Had you chosen one at the beginning of you two years of experimentation and stuck  with that and that alone you would be striking the ball much better than you are now.

 

Steve

 

 

 

I have a back problem that prevents me from doing a one piece takeaway. That is the number one method and the one I've always tried to make work, nonetheless, since I started playing golf again I decided to experiment with techniques in order to build a repeating swing w/o hurting my back. Since I don't have a big budget I can't afford lessons and have built my own equipment or bought very cheap (most of it is 20 years old). I think there are also a fair amount of posters on the forum that have looked at different techniques like me.

 

As far as my progression goes I have progressed significantly. I am now hitting my irons high with only a slight draw with an easier swing. My teeing off has improved too.

 

You will be glad to know that I have to give Manny de la Torres much of the credit, because I have been determined now for the last 2 months to get his hand and arm mechanics down. Initially I stopped trying Manny's swing over a year ago because I can't take the club back with both hands and put the club over my right shoulder like he demonstrates otherwise I hurt my back. However, after watching his videos it convinced me that my left hand grip was faulty and prevented it from having the range of motion I needed to have an efficient hand and arm swing. While I start the swing with the hands farther forward and roll the left hand over I don't think Manny would disapprove of my minor modification, after all it is becoming an increasingly fluid movement and I am hitting the ball better than I ever have.

[CasualLie]

On 9/26/2021 at 8:25 AM, chipa said:

Lately I have been focusing on Rocco Mediates and Manuel de La Torres swing methods.

 

With all the methods I've tried I have come to the conclusion that given the same "perceived effort" when I get a good weightshift my clubhead speed is on average 12 mph faster with my 41.5" 7 wood. Generally, if I try to stay centered I can swing it around 87 mph, but if I let my weight move to my right side it's always around 99. If I really load my right side it can jump to 104 or more.

 

What I feel on the downswing initially is that both my hands pull down and I feel the space between my legs increase before my right leg turns in and drives to the target.

 

 

I do not need to see video evidence.  If it works for you, great...but will it last?

 

The problems I have with the above statements are (1) it is way too subjective, how can anyone know that stuff means?  "if I really load my right"??? and (2) it flies in the face of all the high tech measuring that has been going on the last few years.

 

Not to pick on you, it could be anyone following Manuel de La Torres.  I am really curious why the fascination with this guy?  Seems to me he is very "old school" and describes things not consistent with measurements which makes it really hard for anyone on the internet to comprehend let alone copy.  It doesn't make his model wrong, just hard to follow.  Same with Rocco, he has said many times he wants a level head and less stress on his back, so in a way his swing is unique vs just about everyone else on tour.  It doesn't make him wrong, but it is hard to follow.  

 

Unfortunately, these two swing methods, and you can throw Ballard in there too, suffer mostly from lack of information.  I don't see AMG dissecting tour models based on these swings, or anyone else.  Lack of information breeds lack of understanding, and worse, it also leaves a big opening for wild interpretations and claims.

 

I hope you have a local teaching pro who you resonate with, and can just be that set of eyes keeping you on track in your goals.  Good luck!

[Nickc]

Even a video of someone else ( a pro/ a golf instructor) swinging the way you have tried to describe may help people understand what method you are suggesting others may benefit from. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Nickc

[chipa]

4 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

I do not need to see video evidence.  If it works for you, great...but will it last?

 

The problems I have with the above statements are (1) it is way too subjective, how can anyone know that stuff means?  "if I really load my right"??? and (2) it flies in the face of all the high tech measuring that has been going on the last few years.

 

Not to pick on you, it could be anyone following Manuel de La Torres.  I am really curious why the fascination with this guy?  Seems to me he is very "old school" and describes things not consistent with measurements which makes it really hard for anyone on the internet to comprehend let alone copy.  It doesn't make his model wrong, just hard to follow.  Same with Rocco, he has said many times he wants a level head and less stress on his back, so in a way his swing is unique vs just about everyone else on tour.  It doesn't make him wrong, but it is hard to follow.  

 

Unfortunately, these two swing methods, and you can throw Ballard in there too, suffer mostly from lack of information.  I don't see AMG dissecting tour models based on these swings, or anyone else.  Lack of information breeds lack of understanding, and worse, it also leaves a big opening for wild interpretations and claims.

 

I hope you have a local teaching pro who you resonate with, and can just be that set of eyes keeping you on track in your goals.  Good luck!

 

I don't live in the states and don't have a local pro that I can rely on. Also, I have limited lower back flexibility and can't do a straight back takeaway otherwise my back hurts and my legs tingle so I have been looking at other swing methods.

 

At any rate, the whole point of this thread was to get people to push off their right leg like Hogan recommended. Arnold Palmer also said "Push off your right foot through the shot".

 

As far as my own progress goes pushing off the right leg has added a lot of distance which enables me to turn my shoulders less.  In fact I can swing my 47" driver at 110 w/o too much effort and have hit 119 when I get a good weighshift. My ball flight is a draw as I take the club outside because I don't turn my hips initially then drop it to the inside. I will be playing a shorter driver soon(45.5 - 46") though as my course is only 6100 yards and don't need so much distance.

 

 

[chipa]

1 minute ago, Nickc said:

Even a video of someone else ( a pro/ a golf instructor) swinging the way you have tried to describe may help people understand what method you are suggesting others may benefit from. 

 

 

[Nickc]

4 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

oh! I'd better read Hogan's 5 lessons again to understand what  you were advocating in your original post. 

 

[CasualLie]

13 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

I don't live in the states and don't have a local pro that I can rely on. Also, I have limited lower back flexibility and can't do a straight back takeaway otherwise my back hurts and my legs tingle so I have been looking at other swing methods.

 

At any rate, the whole point of this thread was to get people to push off their right leg like Hogan recommended. Arnold Palmer also said "Push off your right foot through the shot".

 

As far as my own progress goes pushing off the right leg has added a lot of distance which enables me to turn my shoulders less.  In fact I can swing my 47" driver at 110 w/o too much effort and have hit 119 when I get a good weighshift. My ball flight is a draw as I take the club outside because I don't turn my hips initially then drop it to the inside. I will be playing a shorter driver soon(45.5 - 46") though as my course is only 6100 yards and don't need so much distance.

 

 

 

Great example of how incomplete information and/or lack of context can be dangerous.  I do not doubt Hogan/Palmer saying things like push off right foot.  But when?  How exactly? Where is the rest of my body?  And I do not doubt you pick up a lot of swing speed with your idea of a good weight shift.  But is it a weight shift?  Or is it better pressure?  Or have you re-centered yourself at the top better? 

 

See? All of the above of what you are saying can be correct, but if someone just learning golf saw your thread then went to the range and went to the top with what they thought was a bigger loading into the right, then pushed off with right; they most likely will dump the right shoulder too much and take out enough earth to see the other side of the world while the ball goes 3 yards.  Or not...who knows, maybe they have fast arms/hands and can flick it dead left?

 

Personally, I can never tell myself to push off with the right because by the time I get to the top or near there and tell myself that, it's too late, there is no right to push off.  And if I force it, I am in big trouble with the hips pushing way too lateral, probably bad for my back!

 

Arguably, the best statement ever made in golf is "feel is not real".  

Edited September 27, 2021 by CasualLie

[chipa]

Just now, CasualLie said:

 

Great example of how incomplete information and/or lack of context can be dangerous.  I do not doubt Hogan/Palmer saying things like push off right foot.  But when?  How exactly? Where is the rest of my body?  And I do not doubt you pick up a lot of swing speed with your idea of a good weight shift.  But is it a weight shift?  Or is it better pressure?  Or have you re-centered yourself at the top better? 

 

See? All of the above of what you are saying can be correct, but if someone just learning golf saw your thread then went to the range and went to the top with what they thought was a bigger loading into the right, then pushed off with right.  They most likely will dump the right shoulder too much and take out enough earth to see the other side of the world while the ball goes 3 yards.  Or not...who knows, maybe they have fast arms/hands and can flick it dead left?

 

Personally, I can never tell myself to push off with the right because by the time I get to the top or near there and tell myself that, it's too late, there is no right to push off.  And if I force it, I am in big trouble with the hips pushing way too lateral, probably bad for my back!

 

Arguably, the best statement ever made in golf is "feel is not real".  

 

There are lots of different teaching methods nowadays, from super technical very position oriented instruction to Manny de La Torres, who discusses very little mechanics.

 

What I am proposing is somewhere in the middle. I believe the golf swing is quite complicated and becoming too overloaded with swing thoughts hurts the brains ability to make a "connection" and use the complete body efficiently.

 

I would recommend you go hit softballs at a batting cage until you feel like your legs are doing a lot of work. When you try to make a golf swing with this type of leg action your current hand and arm mechanics may be a hindrance as I found out on my own, in other words the way I held the club and wanted to route it on the backswing prevented my from getting a good weightshift. To that end I would say keep your grip light, your arms in front of your body and at some point after the takeaway begins to push your left hand away from the target until you feel your legs pushing the other way. Pushing the left hand back is also a classic technique that I read about when I started playing golf in the 90's. Good luck.

[Zitlow]

There have been good players who didn't shift much. Austin had a massive weight shift for distance. He didn't push off his right heel, as his left heel went down his right heel came up.

 

As he released his right heel he threw the clubhead.