Percentage of go kids who get cut after 1st year in College

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

20 hours ago, RmoorePE said:

Coaches say things like " kids are student- athletes, that means student first." Then they give you the off season schedule- 6 AM individual workout, team lunch tutoring, 4 PM team workout, 7 pm shoot around. Only the best of the best can do it, congrats to the parents who's kids can make this work. As a mediocre student, I could not.

 

Son calls it the Grind.  If you aren't willing to grind, then college life isn't for you.  Never went to college myself.  Just image what some of these kids give up just for a chance to play and maybe  a few extra bucks in the college account.

 

 

 

[tiger1873]

5 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

Why are you so worried about this?  Perform and there won't be an issue.

 

I personally don't think for most kids performance is going to be an issue if they work their butts off and do what they needed to do get it in the first place.  You can control that.

 

What worries me is when Coaches change or  the coach decides to tell them how to play or they just are plain unreasonable. If a school has a very high tuition it's a bigger problem then a public school with low tuition.  Easy to see why you would choose a great public school because Athletic scholarship money may not even be needed.

[leezer99]

4 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

I personally don't think for most kids performance is going to be an issue if they work their butts off and do what they needed to do get it in the first place.  You can control that.

 

What worries me is when Coaches change or  the coach decides to tell them how to play or they just are plain unreasonable. If a school has a very high tuition it's a bigger problem then a public school with low tuition.  Easy to see why you would choose a great public school because Athletic scholarship money may not even be needed.

 

The biggest reason many private schools have trouble recruiting for equivalency sports is tuition.  Why do you think there are very few golf powerhouse legacies at private schools?  In state tuition at UCLA is about $14,000... go 5 miles down the road to USC and you're paying $58,000.  I don't care if you get a 50% scholarship at USC, you're still paying twice the full tuition at UCLA without a scholarship.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

2 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

I personally don't think for most kids performance is going to be an issue if they work their butts off and do what they needed to do get it in the first place.  You can control that.

 

What worries me is when Coaches change or  the coach decides to tell them how to play or they just are plain unreasonable. If a school has a very high tuition it's a bigger problem then a public school with low tuition.  Easy to see why you would choose a great public school because Athletic scholarship money may not even be needed.

You might be going about the recruiting piece wrong.  You are worried about "what ifs".

 

There is a checklist you need to develop as a family.

 

How far away from home.

What might you major in

  - This might determine which schools

Level of play

Public vs Private

You can probably come up with 50-60 schools within that.

Then look at the current roster.  Is there more than 2 spots for that year.  Personally if there wasn't 3 2021 we didn't bother.

How long has the coach been there.  My first question during unofficial visits.  How long do you plan on being here?

 

 

[tiger1873]

5 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

The biggest reason many private schools have trouble recruiting for equivalency sports is tuition.  Why do you think there are very few golf powerhouse legacies at private schools?  In state tuition at UCLA is about $14,000... go 5 miles down the road to USC and you're paying $58,000.  I don't care if you get a 50% scholarship at USC, you're still paying twice the full tuition at UCLA without a scholarship.

 

 

I agree for the most part it hard for a private school to compete. based on tuition  In one the many camps we attended the coach emphasized how they work on getting  a total package for a someone who signs with them and how that is actually the most important thing to look for.

 

I really liked that coach but she is no longer the coach at that school. The new coach changed the roster a lot and it appears they are moving in a different direction. 

[kekoa]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

 

I personally don't think for most kids performance is going to be an issue if they work their butts off and do what they needed to do get it in the first place.  You can control that.

 

What worries me is when Coaches change or  the coach decides to tell them how to play or they just are plain unreasonable. If a school has a very high tuition it's a bigger problem then a public school with low tuition.  Easy to see why you would choose a great public school because Athletic scholarship money may not even be needed.

Man I wish my life was so simple that I had worries like that.  

[FSUGolfdog]

I'll share my sons experiences at a high ranked D2 school.  He transferred after his sophomore year, was promised x dollars and that's what he was given.  After his junior year he was given more money due to him playing good and meeting all the requirement in the contract he signed with the coach.  One of his freshmen teammates didn't make grades the first semester, didn't meet the requirements in the contract he signed with the coach but he was a good player so the coach continued with his scholarship.

 

There are so many factors, I can promise you that if his freshman teammate wasn't a good player he wouldn't have been on the roster the next year.  In my opinion if you do well in the classroom, follow the rules and play just ok you'll be able to maintain your scholarship.

[RmoorePE]

4 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

 

Congrats to you on raising a good kid. We dropped my oldest off at college a couple weeks back. She had interest from smaller schools for volleyball, but had no interest in them. She told me last week she is glad she decided just to be a student. I thought maybe it was because her degree in Accounting/Business was taking a lot of time, but it is mostly the freedom and parties (lol).

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

22 minutes ago, RmoorePE said:

Congrats to you on raising a good kid. We dropped my oldest off at college a couple weeks back. She had interest from smaller schools for volleyball, but had no interest in them. She told me last week she is glad she decided just to be a student. I thought maybe it was because her degree in Accounting/Business was taking a lot of time, but it is mostly the freedom and parties (lol).

Yea.  Mine is a little unique in being a Student athlete and then having ROTC requirements as well.  Some days he says its a struggle to just do laundry and HW.  His Tuesday as I mentioned he is getting into bed until after 10pm and thats starting the day around 4:50am.

 

Never a party kid so i guess that helps.

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Yea.  Mine is a little unique in being a Student athlete and then having ROTC requirements as well.  Some days he says its a struggle to just do laundry and HW.  His Tuesday as I mentioned he is getting into bed until after 10pm and thats starting the day around 4:50am.

 

Never a party kid so i guess that helps.

Rules for a successful college experience: Sleep more than you study, study more than you party and party as much as you can!

[Fairway14]

8 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 Why do you think there are very few golf powerhouse legacies at private schools?  

 

Mostly it's because golf teams earn essentially no revenue for the school. 

[chrissdc]

11 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Unless the NIL shows a decrease after signed for the first year.

I never even thought of that. 
Have you seen that?

[chrissdc]

11 hours ago, pbuck said:

This is not true... I know from first hand experience the University of Tennessee for a long time has promised kids a full ride scholarship as a recruiting tactic then slowly decreases their scholarship throughout their college career. 

 

Where are you getting this from?

This is my understanding after doing research during my kids recruitment. 
It was always spelled out this way by the college coaches, college athletic compliance people , and sometimes the college athletic director, on the 4 or 5 unofficial visits I made with my kid, it was also stated this way in the 3 official visits that my kid took alone. 


 

 

[leezer99]

3 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Mostly it's because golf teams earn essentially no revenue for the school. 

 

OK St has entered the chat... 

[heavy_hitter]

14 hours ago, chrissdc said:

I never even thought of that. 
Have you seen that?

 

Yes, I have 100% seen it.

[Uncle_Buck2]

15 hours ago, chrissdc said:

This is my understanding after doing research during my kids recruitment. 
It was always spelled out this way by the college coaches, college athletic compliance people , and sometimes the college athletic director, on the 4 or 5 unofficial visits I made with my kid, it was also stated this way in the 3 official visits that my kid took alone. 


 

 

It probably varies between athletic departments, conferences, and divisions. That's not an official NCAA ruling though.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

21 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Mostly it's because golf teams earn essentially no revenue for the school. 

Non revenue meaning tickets and sport gear 100% agree. Do booster donate money for the kids scholarship?  Yes

Are the kids on full rides?  No. 

 

What is the college giving up?  Some merit and athletic money.  Hours from the AD, ADA, trainers and compliance officers.  Losing money?  NO

 

What is the college getting?  Potential 10 kids that were never coming to that school.  Total cost of attendance 28K.  Schools gives 10K in Aid and scholarships.

The school gets potential 10 scholars or even 20 counting if both a women's and men's team.

 

That adds to the school over numbers of scholars in that division.  Increases the school marketing.  Lets face it better chance of getting golf kids with 3.5-4 GPA than football.

Adds to the graduation % of that school.

[tiger1873]

6 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Non revenue meaning tickets and sport gear 100% agree. Do booster donate money for the kids scholarship?  Yes

Are the kids on full rides?  No. 

 

What is the college giving up?  Some merit and athletic money.  Hours from the AD, ADA, trainers and compliance officers.  Losing money?  NO

 

What is the college getting?  Potential 10 kids that were never coming to that school.  Total cost of attendance 28K.  Schools gives 10K in Aid and scholarships.

The school gets potential 10 scholars or even 20 counting if both a women's and men's team.

 

That adds to the school over numbers of scholars in that division.  Increases the school marketing.  Lets face it better chance of getting golf kids with 3.5-4 GPA than football.

Adds to the graduation % of that school.

Here is another positive to add to the list

 

 

I was  told a the golf teams do a lot fundraising for the school with big donors. I do not know if that true. However it does make sense that donors would like playing with a college golfer.

 

I have a feeling Back in the day t boone Pickens spent a lot time with the OSU alum on their course.

 

[Uncle_Buck2]

On 9/29/2021 at 8:42 AM, Fairway14 said:

 

1/4 scholarships for college golf are  usual, half less common, and full scholarships are rare. If a kid's golf course performance does not justify him/her earning a scholarship for the next year, he/she is still welcome to stay in the program and compete for a spot on the team's  tournament roster. 

 

Thank you. People think full scholarships are handed out like it's candy. Those usually are for the Spieth, Scheffler, Wolf, and Hovlands of the world...

[golfortennis]

I have known of a DIII golfer who basically had her coach run her off because she broke her ankle, and thus couldn't play.  Was snapped up by a D1 school quickly, so it worked out.  But while coaches don't cut due to performance, it is my understanding that they(a certain breed of coaches, not all) have no shame in, shall we say, "encouraging" the athlete to leave.  Make a situation bad enough and then when they leave, "I didn't cut them due to their performance, it was of their own accord."

 

I think parents really need to figure out whether the coach sees players as tools to build their legacy, or if the coach sees the job as helping these kids to become better at the sport or as people.  The Wisconsin men's basketball situation recently is far from an isolated situation.  Every coach claims the latter, but...

 

As to the transfer comment earlier in the thread, I agree it's strange the stigma that seems to be out there.  I read somewhere once that something like 50% of all college students transfer once in their time in school.  If athletes are supposed to be students as well, why wouldn't they transfer? 

[Hawkeye77]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:17 AM, tiger1873 said:

 

I heard that a lot kids don't cut in college and get dropped after the 1st year / semester.  Not sure the percentage but a few people told me it's a high number especially for girls.

 

I am sure there are many reason behind why this happens.  

BS.

[ilikegolf26]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:33 AM, leezer99 said:

 

The biggest reason many private schools have trouble recruiting for equivalency sports is tuition.  Why do you think there are very few golf powerhouse legacies at private schools?  In state tuition at UCLA is about $14,000... go 5 miles down the road to USC and you're paying $58,000.  I don't care if you get a 50% scholarship at USC, you're still paying twice the full tuition at UCLA without a scholarship.

Private schools like Vandy can also give out virtually unlimited scholarships while public schools typically cannot so I’m not sure your point is we’ll taken. That’s why a school like Vandy can compete in the SEC in baseball and golf. 
 

https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/lsu/2020/07/23/new-ncaa-rule-helps-sec-baseball-but-really-aids-vanderbilt/5479671002/

Edited October 11, 2021 by ilikegolf26

[MichaelBorthwick]

This is a very strange trend.

[ChipNRun]

I am a retired college professor. Got PhD at D1 school in Texas, and later taught at Div. II, NAIA and Div. III schools.

 

One factor which thins the herd quickly in college golf: Time management, or lack of it.

 

In college golf, you a semi-year round season. A few pickup matches in the fall just to get everyone warmed up, see who has what.

 

In spring, the first and second string will have matches a couple of times a week. Then, there's road weeks where a team can hit two different tournaments before returning home.

 

A golfer has to coordinate with his or her professors, find a way to make up work and do some independent study, and turn in assignments on time. At all colleges I taught at, golfers were by and large excellent students. Scratch golfers who can't manage things find themselves off the team.

 

And, many NAIA and Div. III (non-scholarship) teams have a player or two that was a former Div. I or Div. II hotshot, but crashed and burned in the classroom.

 

The time commitment is steep, even for practice days. An example from my rather odd juco career as both wrestler and golfer: Wrestling about 2 hours a day... golf, counting 20-minute trip to and from course, 4-to-6 hours a day.

[ChipNRun]

On 9/28/2021 at 12:42 PM, RmoorePE said:

On the flipside I know that there are lots of kids who wash out of every sport in the first year. I would bet golf has less than the other sports, by and large as there is a lot less physical stress.

 

I would tend to disagree. I'm a retired business professor, and have either student or teaching experience at schools representing all levels of college sports. For golf, poor time management can be a problem. In spring, students are often on the road for a week at a time for different events. They must work with profs to keep up in their coursework.

 

See my post above comparing wrestling vs. golf season.

--------------------

Edited October 29, 2022 by ChipNRun
Syntax.

[RmoorePE]

On 10/28/2022 at 6:49 PM, ChipNRun said:

 

I would tend to disagree. I'm a retired business professor, and have either student or teaching experience at schools representing all levels of college sports. For golf, poor time management can be a problem. In spring, students are often on the road for a week at a time for different events. They must work with profs to keep up in their coursework.

 

See my post above comparing wrestling vs. golf season.

--------------------

I certainly defer to your n=1 over mine.

 

I only know a few college golfers and they all finished their degrees and played golf throughout. The basketball, fastpitch and baseball kids I knew mostly washed out. Their reason mostly was that the physical toll of an entire youth playing the sport and training for the sport washed out their desire to push their bodies further. Most made it through their first season and then looked at the remaining year training schedule before the next season and were like "nah, I'm good."

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, RmoorePE said:

I certainly defer to your n=1 over mine.

 

I only know a few college golfers and they all finished their degrees and played golf throughout. The basketball, fastpitch and baseball kids I knew mostly washed out. Their reason mostly was that the physical toll of an entire youth playing the sport and training for the sport washed out their desire to push their bodies further. Most made it through their first season and then looked at the remaining year training schedule before the next season and were like "nah, I'm good."

 

It's a very different beast when you reach the college level athletically.  In most cases you go from being one of the top players in every game you play to everybody on every roster is in the same boat.  Even though you have a lot more youth competition where it's a lot closer to best on best, it can still be something of a shock.  Then when you add in the fact that someone has now invested in you(scholarships aren't free), they expect a return on that investment, which as you say is in part the physical training.  I remember reading a book years ago about a top college football program that had recruited a number of top recruits, who quit the sport before the first training camp was out.  

 

Further to my first point, if you have played this sport all your life and done all that, it can drive you to hate the sport, but if you are good enough to play in college, you will keep up with, so long as you are playing.  It's a very difficult thing to go through all of it and sit the bench.  I couldn't handle sitting the bench in high school, and I was hardly any kind of star.  How does a kid who has been a star his whole life deal with it?  Not an easy thing to handle.

[Wham49]

it seems like that is the case for most students period in college, before of the end of Frosh year, mmay can't cut it and go home.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

3 hours ago, Wham49 said:

it seems like that is the case for most students period in college, before of the end of Frosh year, mmay can't cut it and go home.

I would even say some might find other things in college as well.

 

My son I think I mentioned last year balancing ROTC and Golf.  Golf they want you full attention.  Rotc wants your full attention.  He is on a full ROTC tuition ride, while was only getting partial money for golf.

 

He just got to the point where he would rather enjoy golf as a sport and go full throttle into ROTC.  In the process he gained back about 25-30 hours a week.

[tssgj65]

On 10/31/2022 at 11:24 AM, RmoorePE said:

I certainly defer to your n=1 over mine.

 

I only know a few college golfers and they all finished their degrees and played golf throughout. The basketball, fastpitch and baseball kids I knew mostly washed out. Their reason mostly was that the physical toll of an entire youth playing the sport and training for the sport washed out their desire to push their bodies further. Most made it through their first season and then looked at the remaining year training schedule before the next season and were like "nah, I'm good."

Regardless the sport they have to love the grind!