Off-Season work - would Broom Force help?

[Bandonhacker]

I've decided that this winter is the year where I make a concerted effort to improve. To me, my swing looks steep with a terrible body shape at impact. Strike location is very variable, suffering with a two way miss. I'm a decent short/mid Iron player but struggle off the tee. 8-12 pars and 3-4 lost balls is not unusual.

I like the idea of Monte's Broom Force, but maybe I need something else first ? Any insights appreciated. 

[xmanhockey7]

Man, I think you’re a prime candidate for no turn cast if you’re doing Monte programs. 

[Bandonhacker]

Thanks! Haven't figured out what exactly I need to do. Is the cast element of NTC needed to make Broom Force work?

[Precis1on]

It's not absolute that you need NTC, but NTC + Broomforce pair well together with NTC being more technique oriented and Broomforce pulling the sequencing together for power. 

[Bandonhacker]

Thanks. I wonder are all the subsequent issues a function of a steep transition? e.g. loss of posture. If i've understood correctly, NTC is focused on this transition element.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Bandonhacker

[xmanhockey7]

2 hours ago, Bandonhacker said:

Thanks. I wonder are all the subsequent issues a function of a steep transition? e.g. loss of posture. If i've understood correctly, NTC is focused on this transition element.

1. It’s cheap. I really think it would help you 

 

2. yes. A better set at the top and more importantly transition would benefit you greatly. 

[Bandonhacker]

Thanks @xmanhockey7. I realise the cost is minimal. I just wanted to get some thoughts on whether it might be a productive path to take or whether there are other issues that first need fixing.

[bortass]

NTC is focused on the entire swing, not just transition. There's more content on the backswing and downswing than transition in it. What I found with BroomForce is it helped me understand what Monte was talking about regarding transition better. The drills in BF gave me a better idea on how the lower body works which is something I have always been missing. I think the two work quite well together but that's just the opinion of a hacker, so YMMV.

[Krt22]

5 hours ago, Bandonhacker said:

Thanks @xmanhockey7. I realise the cost is minimal. I just wanted to get some thoughts on whether it might be a productive path to take or whether there are other issues that first need fixing.

If you are going to be really working on improving your movement, I would highly recommend the efficient swing series first (and then NTC+Broomforce). It it essentially lays the ground work for the entire swing and will help you better understand how and why the drills in the other complimentary videos are important. 

[RichieHunt]

It might help.  I think you have an issue with how your arms swing and that's part of what the broom force training helps with, the arm swing on the downswing.

 

I think your issue is more backswing related.  You don't sustain your extensor action (the butt of the club pushing further away from your body).  You appear to get some nice extensor action in the takeaway, then you lose it and the handle is too close to your body and your right arm over-folds at the top of the swing.  You do swing the arms a bit inside, but the loss of extensor action is the bigger culprit in my mind.

 

Once the right arm over-folds past 90*, it's very difficult to unfold it so you shallow out and to unfold it in sync with the rest of the body movements.  

 

With the broom force, you should be able to feel the extensor action at the top of the swing and then the arms swinging downward in the downswing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[Bandonhacker]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, much appreciated!

 

@RichieHunt - so i should feel more push away/(width?) throughout the backswing which should leave me with less work to do coming down to get my arms in position ?

[JetPilot]

21 hours ago, Bandonhacker said:

 

I like the idea of Monte's Broom Force, but maybe I need something else first ? Any insights appreciated. 

I really like your takeaway to the top.

 

NTC had a minute detail that I picked up on that really set me on a good path.  From the top...the club works up, away and out.  This was a game changer.  

 

The club head has to move futher during the swing than the body does.  It's like a planetary gear system.  IMO you do a great job swinging the club to the top....but the club swings on a 1:1 ratio with your body on the way down which causes it to get out to in.

 

NTC, IMO, re-establishes a proper clubhead to body ratio....gets the club on plane...and sets you up nicely for impact.   NTC would not be a waste of your time.  

[Bandonhacker]

3 hours ago, JetPilot said:

I really like your takeaway to the top.

 

NTC had a minute detail that I picked up on that really set me on a good path.  From the top...the club works up, away and out.  This was a game changer.  

 

The club head has to move futher during the swing than the body does.  It's like a planetary gear system.  IMO you do a great job swinging the club to the top....but the club swings on a 1:1 ratio with your body on the way down which causes it to get out to in.

 

NTC, IMO, re-establishes a proper clubhead to body ratio....gets the club on plane...and sets you up nicely for impact.   NTC would not be a waste of your time.  

Interesting, and thanks for taking the time to comment. So i need to get the club moving earlier? I get the "up" part i think and i assume the other two elements are away from the target and behind me somewhat, allowing the club to come from the inside? Does my somewhat laid off position effect this?

[naj959]

IMO face is open in transition so you wipe across the ball to try and get the club square. The exact opposite of what NTC teaches. I vote for NTC although I found Efficient Swing to be more beneficial for me personally.

[Bandonhacker]

11 hours ago, naj959 said:

IMO face is open in transition so you wipe across the ball to try and get the club square. The exact opposite of what NTC teaches. I vote for NTC although I found Efficient Swing to be more beneficial for me personally.

Thanks. I agree re. open clubface. Right of right is definitely my more usual miss despite a somewhat strong grip. 

I've bought Broom Force now and will probably get NTC too. Would you say that the cast in transition as Monte describes it on Youtube is a combination of realeasing the vertical hinge plus the motorcycle move to square the face? It definitely seems like that in Broom Force if the clubhead(Broom) is to get to the ground early and be in a position to sweep. 

[Lefty_3Jack]

I know you want a "program" to make you better, but you might simplify it a little.  Put an upside down bucket 2'- 3' in front of you, between your foot line and the ball, hit the ball, miss the bucket.  Swing looks fine on the way back and you're on plane going down, but your exit is too low. Right now, I'm sure you hit pulls/pull fades/heel slices.  You can work on keeping your back to the target longer and getting your arms down too.  Do that and your ball flight will start changing.  

 

I know this term will get beat up on this forum, but you need to think of the club head "traveling down the line" longer.  That's not what it really does, but that feel is what you need. 

 

I found these two pics to show you what I mean about the club exit.  More guys than not on the PGA tour are going to have the club exiting close to lead shoulder height, especially with a driver.  Dustin Johnson is one that I can think of is lower, but dude has a super shut face going back and gets wide open at impact.  

 

 

[pgetzen]

I would echo the above posts for the combo of NTC and Broom Force.  NTC does the swing concepts really well, and Broom Force has a number of drills that are really helpful for the transition/finish.  They are both inexpensive, so almost a no brainer to try.

[Bandonhacker]

5 hours ago, Lefty_3Jack said:

I know you want a "program" to make you better, but you might simplify it a little.  Put an upside down bucket 2'- 3' in front of you, between your foot line and the ball, hit the ball, miss the bucket.  Swing looks fine on the way back and you're on plane going down, but your exit is too low. Right now, I'm sure you hit pulls/pull fades/heel slices.  You can work on keeping your back to the target longer and getting your arms down too.  Do that and your ball flight will start changing.  

 

I know this term will get beat up on this forum, but you need to think of the club head "traveling down the line" longer.  That's not what it really does, but that feel is what you need. 

 

I found these two pics to show you what I mean about the club exit.  More guys than not on the PGA tour are going to have the club exiting close to lead shoulder height, especially with a driver.  Dustin Johnson is one that I can think of is lower, but dude has a super shut face going back and gets wide open at impact.  

 

 

Thanks @Lefty_3Jack. My club is exiting closer to mid-torso? Is this similar to swinging to "right field"? i've never had much luck with that, which I assumed was due to steepness in transition and/or open clubface. 

[Bandonhacker]

3 hours ago, pgetzen said:

I would echo the above posts for the combo of NTC and Broom Force.  NTC does the swing concepts really well, and Broom Force has a number of drills that are really helpful for the transition/finish.  They are both inexpensive, so almost a no brainer to try.

Agreed they seem great value, I'm more concerned with not going down a rabbit hole where something might not be appropriate. Thanks for your thoughts. I've now watched Broom Force and seems great. 

[pgetzen]

4 hours ago, Bandonhacker said:

Agreed they seem great value, I'm more concerned with not going down a rabbit hole where something might not be appropriate. Thanks for your thoughts. I've now watched Broom Force and seems great. 

I’ve definitely done that, and while I have strayed briefly from NTC every now and then to try some new stuff, I always go back to it.  Solid instruction, in my opinion!

[Higglesworth]

16 hours ago, pgetzen said:

I’ve definitely done that, and while I have strayed briefly from NTC every now and then to try some new stuff, I always go back to it.  Solid instruction, in my opinion!

Yeah me too, 100%. I've been trying for weeks to get my backswing on or above plane and shallow coming down using AMG and Efficient Swing stuff, and just having a heck of a time. Last night go out to the garage and work on NTC backswing and transition and video it....club is exactly where I want it to be and coming down from the top it looks just like what Monte says in the Efficient Swing transition where the hands drop under the plane and stay under to impact. It's also just so simple. NTC is truly legit.