2021 Mizuno T22 wedges (in-hand photos)

[Mizuno North]

6 hours ago, JourdanM said:

Still up on the mizunousa.com site - weird 

 

Have a look again.
They have been removed.

 

 

[JourdanM]

3 minutes ago, Mizuno North said:

 

Have a look again.
They have been removed.

 

 

Still able to get there thru a google search  weirdly 

[Lemonde]

2 hours ago, JourdanM said:

Still able to get there thru a google search  weirdly 

Yes and I did a search for “T22” in the mizuno website search box and found them as well 

[Whatnogarnish]

Shame on Cleveland if this lawsuit deal is real. You couldn’t be more opposite between zipcore and t22

 

Can Mizuno take a shot at Callaway… They have ST in their Rogue driver. 

[Mookieb10]

Check twice before you blame Cleveland. The registrant of this mark starts with “c”, but it ain’t cleveland. 
 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Mookieb10

[Mookieb10]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:53 PM, SwingMan said:

It's either T22 or C-Grind

 

Don't think the words on the hosel about the forging are infringing anything.

 

bingo. See post above. 

[Mookieb10]

Let me just throw in my $.02 here. 
 

It looks like there indeed is a legal issue here. Specifically, Callaway has registered and USED the mark “C Grind” on a number of wedges for years now. I have zero fondness for Callaway as a company and it’s really tacky to enforce this mark... however, they absolutely have a right to. When companies come out with various grinds, we, the informed consumer, often take the steps to educate ourselves about the characteristics of that grind. By Mizuno producing a “c grind”, that essentially short circuits the learning process for the consumer cause we already know the characteristics of Callaway’s C-Grind. Callaway had to spend years (and millions) educating consumers on the C grind, Mizuno just had to copy it. It’s easy for us as consumers, but really gives Mizuno an unfair (according to the law, not me) advantage. Yes, Mizuno can exactly replicate the C Grind, call it something else, then explain to the consumer that it’s similar to Callaway’s C Grind, but they can’t just call it a C grind. 
 

Needless to say, this is a massive oversight by someone at Mizuno. You don’t take product off shelves if you get a frivolous cease and desist letter, so they done knowww they f’d up. I’m guessing they always run the product name against all registered Trademarks but didn’t think to cross reference grinds. Cally has owned the mark for 13 years so it’s wellll established. Cally can hold their feet to the fire and make Mizzy’s product useless, or maybe Mizzy can rebadge it the “FC Grind” (f*** Callaway Grind) without having to destroy inventory or totally creat new inventory. Alternatively, Cally can offer Mizzy pay... say $5 to Cally for every C grind they sell. The options exists. 
 

Tough situation either way. 

[sg91]

1 hour ago, Mookieb10 said:

Let me just throw in my $.02 here. 
 

It looks like there indeed is a legal issue here. Specifically, Callaway has registered and USED the mark “C Grind” on a number of wedges for years now. I have zero fondness for Callaway as a company and it’s really tacky to enforce this mark... however, they absolutely have a right to. When companies come out with various grinds, we, the informed consumer, often take the steps to educate ourselves about the characteristics of that grind. By Mizuno producing a “c grind”, that essentially short circuits the learning process for the consumer cause we already know the characteristics of Callaway’s C-Grind. Callaway had to spend years (and millions) educating consumers on the C grind, Mizuno just had to copy it. It’s easy for us as consumers, but really gives Mizuno an unfair (according to the law, not me) advantage. Yes, Mizuno can exactly replicate the C Grind, call it something else, then explain to the consumer that it’s similar to Callaway’s C Grind, but they can’t just call it a C grind. 
 

Needless to say, this is a massive oversight by someone at Mizuno. You don’t take product off shelves if you get a frivolous cease and desist letter, so they done knowww they f’d up. I’m guessing they always run the product name against all registered Trademarks but didn’t think to cross reference grinds. Cally has owned the mark for 13 years so it’s wellll established. Cally can hold their feet to the fire and make Mizzy’s product useless, or maybe Mizzy can rebadge it the “FC Grind” (f*** Callaway Grind) without having to destroy inventory or totally creat new inventory. Alternatively, Cally can offer Mizzy pay... say $5 to Cally for every C grind they sell. The options exists. 
 

Tough situation either way. 

Thing is, the T20s had a C-Grind too, so what's made them pull the trigger on a lawsuit this time around?

[picardyThird]

1 hour ago, Mookieb10 said:

Let me just throw in my $.02 here. 
 

It looks like there indeed is a legal issue here. Specifically, Callaway has registered and USED the mark “C Grind” on a number of wedges for years now. I have zero fondness for Callaway as a company and it’s really tacky to enforce this mark... however, they absolutely have a right to. When companies come out with various grinds, we, the informed consumer, often take the steps to educate ourselves about the characteristics of that grind. By Mizuno producing a “c grind”, that essentially short circuits the learning process for the consumer cause we already know the characteristics of Callaway’s C-Grind. Callaway had to spend years (and millions) educating consumers on the C grind, Mizuno just had to copy it. It’s easy for us as consumers, but really gives Mizuno an unfair (according to the law, not me) advantage. Yes, Mizuno can exactly replicate the C Grind, call it something else, then explain to the consumer that it’s similar to Callaway’s C Grind, but they can’t just call it a C grind. 
 

Needless to say, this is a massive oversight by someone at Mizuno. You don’t take product off shelves if you get a frivolous cease and desist letter, so they done knowww they f’d up. I’m guessing they always run the product name against all registered Trademarks but didn’t think to cross reference grinds. Cally has owned the mark for 13 years so it’s wellll established. Cally can hold their feet to the fire and make Mizzy’s product useless, or maybe Mizzy can rebadge it the “FC Grind” (f*** Callaway Grind) without having to destroy inventory or totally creat new inventory. Alternatively, Cally can offer Mizzy pay... say $5 to Cally for every C grind they sell. The options exists. 
 

Tough situation either way. 

Interesting... what do you say to the T20 C Grind? Or, say, the Miura C Grind? Or, for example, Edel C Grind? Perhaps, the TaylorMade C Grind? 

 

Face it, if this is indeed Callaway behind this legal issue, then it's absurd, legally shaky, and absolutely a scummy move.

[over7par]

The T20 didn't have C-grind labeled on it anywhere--the T22 does. That's the only thing I can think of.

[SwingMan]

30 minutes ago, picardyThird said:

Interesting... what do you say to the T20 C Grind? Or, say, the Miura C Grind? Or, for example, Edel C Grind? Perhaps, the TaylorMade C Grind? 

 

Face it, if this is indeed Callaway behind this legal issue, then it's absurd, legally shaky, and absolutely a scummy move.

Correct. Mizuno used it for the last 2 years as a C Grind in the T20 line - they promoted it on their website as a C Grind in their specs. You've got to enforce your trademarks once you believe infringement is occurring.  Any OEM alleging infringement has had notice for 2 yrs that Mizuno was using the term "C Grind." They did not enforce their mark at that time. Did they waive their right? Does a difference with distinction exist between putting it on the club and using it as a spec in fitting? Don't know. Depends on the law here. If I were Judge Judy, I'd ask the OEM, "You've know about this forever, did you ask them to cease and desist? If so, why did you not begin action on it?

 

I'd argue that the term C-Grind has become a generic term as the OEM should have enforced it earlier. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by SwingMan

[Golfingfanatic]

I wonder if people had the same laissez-faire attitude if it was their patent that was being infringed. Mizuno f***** up. It's that simple.

[sg91]

1 hour ago, Golfingfanatic said:

I wonder if people had the same laissez-faire attitude if it was their patent that was being infringed. Mizuno f***** up. It's that simple.

A patent is vastly different to a trademark. And patents can be invalid, which Callaway have found out previously

Edited October 27, 2021 by sg91

[MMB1500]

Bettinardi is also using the C grind terminology and has been for some time.

 

 

[Whatnogarnish]

Someone at Mizuno did mess up, but so are a lot of companies, so all the C grinders better watch out then. Seems like douches at Callaway have nothing else to do but pick on a brand producing better wedges.
 

Like I said earlier, Callaway put ‘ST’ in their new Rogue driver, hopefully Mizuno can punch back on something. 

 

Never liked Callaway 

[Bdck]

2 hours ago, MMB1500 said:

Bettinardi is also using the C grind terminology and has been for some time.

 

 

Bettinardis needs a new copywriter God damn

[Mookieb10]

8 hours ago, picardyThird said:

Interesting... what do you say to the T20 C Grind? Or, say, the Miura C Grind? Or, for example, Edel C Grind? Perhaps, the TaylorMade C Grind? 

 

Face it, if this is indeed Callaway behind this legal issue, then it's absurd, legally shaky, and absolutely a scummy move.

I admittedly didn’t consider all the other companies who’ve used “c-grind”. As “Swingman” correctly noted, a company must vigorously defend their trademarks, so if that mark has been used for a long time (by numerous companies) without Callaway enforcing the mark, then perhaps Mizuno has a valid defense. 
 

As to this being a scummy, desperate move by Callaway... yes, it is. I didn’t really want to insert my personal opinion in the analysis. Legally defensible and moral aren’t the same thing. 

[Mookieb10]

8 hours ago, over7par said:

The T20 didn't have C-grind labeled on it anywhere--the T22 does. That's the only thing I can think of.

Interesting point. Perhaps you’ve hit the nail on the head. this may be the distinguishing factor from all the other companies selling a c grind wedge.

[Golfingfanatic]

The bettinardi wedges have the "c" on the wedge.

 

Btw: Why are we so sure that Callaway is involved at all? Didn't someone mention earlier in this thread the lawsuit was with Cleveland?

[MMB1500]

48 minutes ago, Golfingfanatic said:

The bettinardi wedges have the "c" on the wedge.

 

Btw: Why are we so sure that Callaway is involved at all? Didn't someone mention earlier in this thread the lawsuit was with Cleveland?

 

I think the assumption is that because Callaway owns the patent, it's them taking this alleged action. 

[Bdck]

31 minutes ago, MMB1500 said:

 

I think the assumption is that because Callaway owns the patent, it's them taking this alleged action. 

Trademark, not patent.

 

If it's a patent issue, it could be anyone at this point.

[Bunkersarebigcups]

Scotty also has/had a putter line called T22

[Bdck]

11 minutes ago, Bunkersarebigcups said:

Scotty also has/had a putter line called T22

 

The legal standard for this stuff is tied to the question: "would a reasonable consumer be misled by its use?"

 

So would a reasonable consumer think that Mizuno's use of c-grind indicate Mizuno is using Callaway's marketing?

[KParks]

2 hours ago, Bdck said:

Bettinardis needs a new copywriter God damn

 

Yikes, there is bad and then there is BAD. 

[cvhookem63]

20 minutes ago, KParks said:

 

Yikes, there is bad and then there is BAD. 

Sheesh. Just reading that run-on sentence alone instantly prevents me from buying that wedge. That is brutal. 

[cvhookem63]

The worst part about all of this is the only 60* available now is the X grind. 

[youngwaldo]

I will have to ask my peeps at Mizzy what is going on.

 

Wk

[QuigleyDU]

42 minutes ago, cvhookem63 said:

The worst part about all of this is the only 60* available now is the X grind. 

I have a 60 x grind and the bounce is just too low for me. I am thinking about getting a 58 c grind and bending it. I like more bounce. 

[picardyThird]

A press release (or even just a spokesperson comment) from one of the interested, but not involved, parties that says "Hey, sorry for the confusion, but we're not involved in this" would go a long way toward both a.) clearing up confusion, and b.) clearing their name from this mess. For example, if Callaway came out and said this, then we would stop speculating. As it is, everyone involved here is getting their reputation hurt (arguably except Mizuno). I know that until further notice, I will not be buying any Callaway or Cleveland products. 

[Yoshifan151]

29 minutes ago, picardyThird said:

I know that until further notice, I will not be buying any Callaway or Cleveland products. 

 

With that full Mizuno bag I doubt you would have regardless lmao