LPGA/PGA, why does it have to be separate?

[4bees]

My wife and I were watching golf this weekend.  She has recently starting watching and playing golf.  Loves it.  Gets frustrated but loves it.  I also have an 11 month old daughter that I hope hits the links with us when she gets older.  I am an avid player and watcher of golf.  I love the sport.  I do not watch as much of the LPGA as I should, because I honestly love how the ladies swing their clubs.  Us men just try way too damn hard.  

 

I preface with that because an interesting topic was brought up by me to my wife and then to my Sunday golf group (4 dudes including myself).  I always have wondering why the LPGA and PGA have not merged. 

 

For one, the women do not get any coverage at all.  No crowds, no real TV presence on the major networks, nothing (Solheim Cup aside).  And these women can flat out play.  Every weekend the men and women play at the exact same times, albeit different locations, and the men just overpower the ratings.

 

Second, the money discrepancy is absolutely ridiculous.  I cannot believe how little the women make on a major compared to the men.  Lets take the PGA and LPGA Championships.  

Purse money for LPGA Championship: $4.5 Million (Winner gets $675K)

Purse money for PGA Championship: $12 Million (Winner gets $2.16M)

I am not shouting at the rooftops here.  I am simply saying that just a handful of women's sports actually mirror what the men can do.  Soccer and Golf come to my mind immediately.  Yet the pay discrepancy is god awful.  

 

Another comparison I wanted to do was proximity to the whole from 125-150 yards.  I can find this info on the PGA tours website no problem.  But LPGA, they do not have this category.  Now partnered with KPMG they are going to start keeping track of this info (thank god).  Reason I bring this up is because I believe the women have a much better touch than the men.  And that is evident when watching them on TV.  This is why I love watching them play.  The consistency, the accuracy, its unparalleled to anything else.  

 

I say all of that to really make my point.  LPGA stands for Ladies Professional Golf Association.   PGA stands for Professional Golfers' Association.  Where does it have the word Men or Men's in the title?  It doesn't.  We need to combine these two.  I for one would love to see this happen.  Men play from the back tees as they always have and Women play from two sets up.  Men have an average course length of 7200 yards.  Women are around 6500 yards.  Men from the blacks (golds/tiger/whatever) and Women from the Whites/Blues (NOT from the traditional ladies tees).  No handicap.  They just play a set or two tees up.  Nothing wrong with that as they don't hit far enough.  Most second shots from both will be around the same yardage.  So there will be no advantage for the women versus the men here.  Pairings can be split with women men or all men and all women.  My point by saying to do this is simple.  Exposure/pay equality.  Imagine taking the two above majors I have mentioned and making it a $16.5M purse?!  Then the winner can take home $3M.  And if that is a women then they have already made 3.5X the amount if they won the event as it stands now.  

 

I am not saying we need to blend all sports.  Not by any means.  But this is one sport that is for all age groups, all levels of players, all genders and races.  This needs to be something thoroughly discussed now and in the immediate future.  Women deserve and frankly have the right to play with the men here.  It makes me disappointed that women never get the chance to play Augusta as a Major tournament.  I for one will probably (almost definitely) never play this course.  But for a professional woman golfer to never experience one of the greatest courses on this earth, that is just astonishing and sad to me.  Maybe I'm biased because I have a daughter now.  Maybe I wish for her to compete with some of the best golfers in the world, and maybe one day I wish for her to hoist a trophy above her head and look at all the men AND women she beat in the process.  That is a true champion.

 

My 2 cents....I hope everyone can understand where I am coming from.  Traditionalist need not apply, lol. 

[Argonne69]

The women do have the ability to play with the men. Annika, Michelle Wie, and most recent Brittany Lincicome have played in PGA events. However, like the men, they play from the same tees as the other competitors. BY contrast the LPGA is women only, which I think is fine. I'd rather not tune into a tournament to watch a bunch of Korn Ferry wannabes playing on the (L)PGA.

 

I would like to see one or two head-to-head mixed (tee) events, but I don't think that's going to happen. The closest we get is when they play two tournaments on the same course in adjacent weeks (e.g. 2014 U.S. Open and U.S. Women's Open, The Olympics), or the alternate group format at the ISPS events.

 

[Pepperturbo]

My wife plays to a 12/14 and our granddaughter already shows golf interest.  Our HS sophomore niece plays on the boys team, because she is as long and as good as seniors, and in some cases better than her teammates.  Her HS doesn't field a girls golf team.  She's already won her first regional girl's SE tournament. 

 

I support women's golf.  In business, I see the sexes as equals, but NOT equals when it comes to sports.  Because different dynamics are at work, I won't support merging male / female teams or associations.  They should earn their merit on their own.  If the LPGA can't draw enough viewers to earn comparable incomes, that's their problem to solve or dissolve.  Playing sports professionally is NOT an entitlement. 

 

I've played golf with 2 retired LPGA players.  Played in tournaments and $$ game even up, beat both at different times, out drove both too, yet I was much older.  Just because a man and women play similar high-handicap games, does NOT suggest the pro-sports associations should merge.

 

No doubt, women have the ability to play with men.  We've seen Annika do it 2-3 times; however, she wasn't very successful, given her ranking on the LPGA.  She even said she didn't like the tees.  Then there's this, though some women on the LPGA can out drive me, many can't, and I am 70.  I won't play semantics...

Edited September 28, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[MagicClassic407]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

I would like to see one or two head-to-head mixed (tee) events, but I don't think that's going to happen. The closest we get is when they play two tournaments on the same course in adjacent weeks (e.g. 2014 U.S. Open and U.S. Women's Open, The Olympics), or the alternate group format at the ISPS events.

I have enjoyed watching these types of events that have been televised from the European/LET Tours. They've been doing it the last couple of years. 

 

Also, does anyone think the opening LPGA tournament for next year was moved to Lake Nona (at least partially) as Annika is on board to play there again? 

[PhilsFanDrew]

 

2 hours ago, 4bees said:

 

Second, the money discrepancy is absolutely ridiculous.  I cannot believe how little the women make on a major compared to the men.  Lets take the PGA and LPGA Championships.  

Purse money for LPGA Championship: $4.5 Million (Winner gets $675K)

Purse money for PGA Championship: $12 Million (Winner gets $2.16M)

I am not shouting at the rooftops here.  I am simply saying that just a handful of women's sports actually mirror what the men can do.  Soccer and Golf come to my mind immediately.  Yet the pay discrepancy is god awful.  

 

 

 

It's all relative to sponsorships which is tied into viewership (demand).  The bottom line is the men's PGA Tour is in much greater demand and therefore sponsors are willing to shell out more money which means bigger purses.   It's in greater demand because most view it as a significantly better product. 

 

Until the LPGA can convince consumers that their product is of equal or greater value than the PGA Tour, they will continue to earn significantly less money. 

 

 

 

 

[AWinfortheAges]

5 hours ago, 4bees said:

No handicap.  They just play a set or two tees up.  Nothing wrong with that as they don't hit far enough.  Most second shots from both will be around the same yardage.  So there will be no advantage for the women versus the men here.  Pairings can be split with women men or all men and all women.  My point by saying to do this is simple.  Exposure/pay equality.  Imagine taking the two above majors I have mentioned and making it a $16.5M purse?!  Then the winner can take home $3M.  And if that is a women then they have already made 3.5X the amount if they won the event as it stands now.  

 

 

Intriguing idea.

 

Help me remember @MagicClassic407

 

The LET and European Tour held a team event for 2 years (maybe more). Georgia, Charley, Carlota and Mel or Beanie (as a substitute for Suzanne Peterson) participated the 1st year.

 

I thought there was a mixed LET/European tour event this year for the same prize money. Or maybe I didn't hear it correctly when I briefly tuned in.

 

 

[Lobby]

I know the men would  never agree to it, but the tours merging would be a wonderful thing, in my opinion.

As things stand, there's too much competition between the tours.   The ladies deserve more.

[4bees]

4 hours ago, PhilsFanDrew said:

 

 

It's all relative to sponsorships which is tied into viewership (demand).  The bottom line is the men's PGA Tour is in much greater demand and therefore sponsors are willing to shell out more money which means bigger purses.   It's in greater demand because most view it as a significantly better product. 

 

Until the LPGA can convince consumers that their product is of equal or greater value than the PGA Tour, they will continue to earn significantly less money. 

 

 

 

 

When you have to compete with the PGA tour with viewership at the same time and same days it’s nearly impossible to gain exposure. Therefore the general audience will never know if the product is of equal or greater value. Women go out and shoot 63 more often than the men in some of these tourneys.  But that’s not a better product?  Just disappointed people think that way. 

[Argonne69]

10 hours ago, 4bees said:

When you have to compete with the PGA tour with viewership at the same time and same days it’s nearly impossible to gain exposure. Therefore the general audience will never know if the product is of equal or greater value. Women go out and shoot 63 more often than the men in some of these tourneys.  But that’s not a better product?  Just disappointed people think that way. 

 

The women also play, or have played, on some mediocre resort courses where scoring can be had (e.g. Wildfire, Thornberry Creek). Now, it's not their fault that the tour can't get on at many of the iconic courses where the men have teed it up. It's slowing changing, though. The KPMG in particular has done a great job in securing tournaments at some excellent courses, e.g. Olympia Field. 

 

In addition, many of the setups on the LPGA are shall we say, a little suspect. One of the tournaments earlier this year had the tees moved up on two par 5s, and had a driveable par 4. Throw in a little too generous lift, clean, and place policy, and greens that are generally slower and less undulating, and one gets a nice recipe for low scores.

 

Of course the only way to really see how the women and men compare would be to have a mixed event. However, even then I think there would be some serious debate about the teeboxes used on both sides. 

 

[JungleJimbo]

12 hours ago, AWinfortheAges said:

 

Intriguing idea.

 

Help me remember @MagicClassic407

 

The LET and European Tour held a team event for 2 years (maybe more). Georgia, Charley, Carlota and Mel or Beanie (as a substitute for Suzanne Peterson) participated the 1st year.

 

I thought there was a mixed LET/European tour event this year for the same prize money. Or maybe I didn't hear it correctly when I briefly tuned in.

 

 

@AWinfortheAges: You’re probably thinking of the inaugural Scandinavian Mixed (hosted by Annika Sörenstam and Henrik stenson)

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/06/13/jonathan-caldwell-scandinavian-mixed-annika-sorenstam-henrik-stenson/

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/balance-struck-in-set-up-for-scandinavian-mixed-event-says-tournament-chief-3267797

[MagicClassic407]

13 hours ago, AWinfortheAges said:

Help me remember @MagicClassic407

 

The Scandinavian Mixed hosted by Henrik & Annika was held this past June. It was initially scheduled for June of 2020, cancelled due to Covid. 

In 2018, the European Team Championship was held with a limited mixed field. Iceland won! Whatever happened to Olafia??

 

Maybe others know of more............

Edited September 29, 2021 by MagicClassic407
misspell

[4bees]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

The women also play, or have played, on some mediocre resort courses where scoring can be had (e.g. Wildfire, Thornberry Creek). Now, it's not their fault that the tour can't get on at many of the iconic courses where the men have teed it up. It's slowing changing, though. The KPMG in particular has done a great job in securing tournaments at some excellent courses, e.g. Olympia Field. 

 

In addition, many of the setups on the LPGA are shall we say, a little suspect. One of the tournaments earlier this year had the tees moved up on two par 5s, and had a driveable par 4. Throw in a little too generous lift, clean, and place policy, and greens that are generally slower and less undulating, and one gets a nice recipe for low scores.

 

Of course the only way to really see how the women and men compare would be to have a mixed event. However, even then I think there would be some serious debate about the teeboxes used on both sides. 

 

Understood on the rule/tee box change.  I think that is more of a will this work for them type of scenario.  Will they take the chances (because most of the women do not).  Slower greens in my opinion make for a disaster.  Faster greens are one of the advantages to playing golf.  You dont have to pound your putter.  Undulation to me is just a pain in the A to deal with.  Even on the PGA, when you see some of these courses (Masters being one of them and then some of the US Open venues) it really just takes all the fun out of putting.  Instead of going for the hole you are not just lagging putts.  Whats the fun in that?

 

I would love to see a mixed event.  This, as you said, would give a true test to my theory.  A legit tourney that is mixed.  Let the women play a couple tee boxes up and keep everything else equal.  You cant tell me there would be less viewers, I think there would be the same if not more watching this.  

[Argonne69]

31 minutes ago, 4bees said:

Understood on the rule/tee box change.  I think that is more of a will this work for them type of scenario.  Will they take the chances (because most of the women do not).  Slower greens in my opinion make for a disaster.  Faster greens are one of the advantages to playing golf.  You dont have to pound your putter.  Undulation to me is just a pain in the A to deal with.  Even on the PGA, when you see some of these courses (Masters being one of them and then some of the US Open venues) it really just takes all the fun out of putting.  Instead of going for the hole you are not just lagging putts.  Whats the fun in that?

 

I would love to see a mixed event.  This, as you said, would give a true test to my theory.  A legit tourney that is mixed.  Let the women play a couple tee boxes up and keep everything else equal.  You cant tell me there would be less viewers, I think there would be the same if not more watching this.  

 

Lol. When is tournament golf ever fun? Undulating greens are a challenge, both for putting, as well as ballstriking. Any pro can hit a benign green. The best can put their shots into the right quadrant of the green. I loved when the pros kvetched about the renovation of Dubsdread. The new segmented greens required one to be in the right quadrant. 

 

Unless the best male players show up, I'm not interested in a mixed event featuring the best women in the game competing again a bunch of nobodies. 

[ThinkingPlus]

The bottom line is that mixed events will always be somewhat compromised by course setup.  If you want to challenge the men you need longish rough and firm, fast greens.  The men, because of their greater clubhead speed and strength, can handle these conditions. 

 

The women will struggle under these circumstances because we don't generate enough clubhead speed to get the higher spin rates required to hold the greens.  Same kind of issue crops up handling the rough.  You need strength and speed to elevate irons out of the rough to hold the greens.  Greenside rough would be problematic for similar reasons.

 

The women would acclimate to the green speeds from a putting perspective and the higher fairways hit percentage would partially mitigate the deeper rough, but overall the setup would be too punishing for the women to score well and be competitive even with shorter tees.  If you soften the course setup enough for the women to be competitive, your top men won't play and the remainder will shred the course most of the time.

[Golf Dino]

4 hours ago, MagicClassic407 said:

The Scandinavian Mixed hosted by Henrik & Annika was held this past June. It was initially scheduled for June of 2020, cancelled due to Covid. 

In 2018, the European Team Championship was held with a limited mixed field. Iceland won! Whatever happened to Olafia??

 

Maybe others know of more............

 

 

Kristen's daughter was playing on the LET and Symetra Tour lasr season.  She has not shown any results for 2021.    Perhaps she is taking time for family reasons, injury/recovery or maybe the pandemic layoff made the economics unviable.

[MagicClassic407]

I'm now recalling the Wendy's 3 Tour Challenge once upon a time. I enjoyed it. BUT, it was an unofficial one day event held during what the PGA used to call the 'silly' season. Went from 1992 - 2013 and some really big names played it over the years (Nicklaus, Nancy Lopez, Chi Chi, Tom and Bubba Watson, Ray Floyd, Dottie Pepper, Laura Davies, Greg Norman, Payne Stewart, Annika, Karrie Webb, Grace Park, Phil, Lorena, Inkster, Bernhard, Creamer, Suzann Pettersen, Se Ri Pak) and on and on.

Japanese golf had their own version sponsored by Hitachi.

 

WTH, Golf Channel should rerun those for sheer historical entertainment!! But prefer to see something like that come back to fruition as an official event.

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

The bottom line is that mixed events will always be somewhat compromised by course setup.  If you want to challenge the men you need longish rough and firm, fast greens.  The men, because of their greater clubhead speed and strength, can handle these conditions. 

 

The women will struggle under these circumstances because we don't generate enough clubhead speed to get the higher spin rates required to hold the greens.  Same kind of issue crops up handling the rough.  You need strength and speed to elevate irons out of the rough to hold the greens.  Greenside rough would be problematic for similar reasons.

 

The women would acclimate to the green speeds from a putting perspective and the higher fairways hit percentage would partially mitigate the deeper rough, but overall the setup would be too punishing for the women to score well and be competitive even with shorter tees.  If you soften the course setup enough for the women to be competitive, your top men won't play and the remainder will shred the course most of the time.

You beat me too it.  The difference is course setup is not just yardage. So a compromise would have to be made….which dilutes the product.

 

It’s funny….if run of the mill tour events are on at at the same time, or if I have one recorded and one live, I will choose to watch the ladies tour more often than the mens. 

6 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

The women also play, or have played, on some mediocre resort courses where scoring can be had (e.g. Wildfire, Thornberry Creek). Now, it's not their fault that the tour can't get on at many of the iconic courses where the men have teed it up. It's slowing changing, though. The KPMG in particular has done a great job in securing tournaments at some excellent courses, e.g. Olympia Field. 

 

In addition, many of the setups on the LPGA are shall we say, a little suspect. One of the tournaments earlier this year had the tees moved up on two par 5s, and had a driveable par 4. Throw in a little too generous lift, clean, and place policy, and greens that are generally slower and less undulating, and one gets a nice recipe for low scores.

 

Of course the only way to really see how the women and men compare would be to have a mixed event. However, even then I think there would be some serious debate about the teeboxes used on both sides. 

 

You mention the ladies tees often it seems…..in a derogatory way.  Or I just take it that way.  But then do the same.  Yes, when the ladies move the tees up on a par 4 to make it drivable some long hitters hit three wood or less.  But why does seemingly no one do the same when the men play that way?  How many male pros need to hit driver on 17 at Phoenix?  Ooo, but it’s a great risk reward hole….or so the narrative goes.

 

 

In my opinion it’s almost two different games the men and women play at the highest respective levels.  Similar to baseball vs softball.      
This is a gross generation but the top men tend to assault the course.  Storm the beaches and full steam ahead.  And if you have the length and strength to do so it is a very effective way to play golf.  The women tend to be a bit more artistic, playing what to many is a more plodding and boring game.  It is generally a more methodical game and the statistics bear this out.  Hitting fairways and greens at a higher rate than the men do.  As @ThinkingPlusmentioned it is largely a strength and speed issue.  We all think of speed as a driving measure but it also come into play on iron play.  With the, somewhat, more tucked pins the men play it takes speed and spin to hit it close.

 

Both games are fun to watch but they are now and probably always will be different.  With the men dominating the headlines and cash.

[AWinfortheAges]

2 hours ago, MagicClassic407 said:

I'm now recalling the Wendy's 3 Tour Challenge once upon a time. I enjoyed it. BUT, it was an unofficial one day event held during what the PGA used to call the 'silly' season. Went from 1992 - 2013 and some really big names played it over the years (Nicklaus, Nancy Lopez, Chi Chi, Tom and Bubba Watson, Ray Floyd, Dottie Pepper, Laura Davies, Greg Norman, Payne Stewart, Annika, Karrie Webb, Grace Park, Phil, Lorena, Inkster, Bernhard, Creamer, Suzann Pettersen, Se Ri Pak) and on and on.

Japanese golf had their own version sponsored by Hitachi.

 

WTH, Golf Channel should rerun those for sheer historical entertainment!! But prefer to see something like that come back to fruition as an official event.

Japan still has their 3 tour challenge. 

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

You beat me too it.  The difference is course setup is not just yardage. So a compromise would have to be made….which dilutes the product.

 

It’s funny….if run of the mill tour events are on at at the same time, or if I have one recorded and one live, I will choose to watch the ladies tour more often than the mens. 

You mention the ladies tees often it seems…..in a derogatory way.  Or I just take it that way.  But then do the same.  Yes, when the ladies move the tees up on a par 4 to make it drivable some long hitters hit three wood or less.  But why does seemingly no one do the same when the men play that way?  How many male pros need to hit driver on 17 at Phoenix?  Ooo, but it’s a great risk reward hole….or so the narrative goes.

 

 

In my opinion it’s almost two different games the men and women play at the highest respective levels.  Similar to baseball vs softball.      
This is a gross generation but the top men tend to assault the course.  Storm the beaches and full steam ahead.  And if you have the length and strength to do so it is a very effective way to play golf.  The women tend to be a bit more artistic, playing what to many is a more plodding and boring game.  It is generally a more methodical game and the statistics bear this out.  Hitting fairways and greens at a higher rate than the men do.  As @ThinkingPlusmentioned it is largely a strength and speed issue.  We all think of speed as a driving measure but it also come into play on iron play.  With the, somewhat, more tucked pins the men play it takes speed and spin to hit it close.

 

Both games are fun to watch but they are now and probably always will be different.  With the men dominating the headlines and cash.

 

I don't think I've ever used the term "ladies tees". It's derogatory and sexist.

 

I do complain about birdiefests that shorten holes with no risk elements. I think that cheapens the skills of the better players. The 17th at TPC Scottsdale is a great risk/reward hole. It was designed as a short par 4 with the risk of winding up in the penalty area. Taking an average par 4 and shortening it to 270 yds just to produce birdies isn't the same.

 

Yes, the PGA Tour does the same thing, I I dislike it just as much. Players hitting driver and 8 iron on a par "5"? Pfffttt.

 

[Nels55]

Obviously the OP's idea will never happen and there are a lot of reasons for that!  I can think of a few:

 

If the two tours were combined as the OP suggests then we would have one tournament every weekend instead of two which means that half the ladies and half the men are out of a job.  Unless you are planning to double the field size somehow?  Not going to work.  Also you could never adjust the tees so that one side or the other was not complaining.  And PGA players would never agree to losing a million dollar purse to a women pro playing shorter tees on a regular basis.  Not gonna happen.  I like the current setup much better with two tours and I believe that it is much better for all involved.  The current setup means more jobs and more money in the pot overall. 

 

If the women's tour becomes more popular then they will make more money.  Actually I think that they are doing pretty well as it is!

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I don't think I've ever used the term "ladies tees". It's derogatory and sexist.

 

I do complain about birdiefests that shorten holes with no risk elements. I think that cheapens the skills of the better players. The 17th at TPC Scottsdale is a great risk/reward hole. It was designed as a short par 4 with the risk of winding up in the penalty area. Taking an average par 4 and shortening it to 270 yds just to produce birdies isn't the same.

 

Yes, the PGA Tour does the same thing, I I dislike it just as much. Players hitting driver and 8 iron on a par "5"? Pfffttt.

 

Guess I phrased in incorrectly. I was referring to the LPGA Tour tees being played.  It is mentioned often on the forum, always in reference to the women moving up a box or two but strangely the mens tour is never ridiculed the same way for the exact same behavior.
 

 

[KBong]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:35 PM, PhilsFanDrew said:

It's all relative to sponsorships which is tied into viewership (demand).  The bottom line is the men's PGA Tour is in much greater demand and therefore sponsors are willing to shell out more money which means bigger purses.   It's in greater demand because most view it as a significantly better product. 

 

Until the LPGA can convince consumers that their product is of equal or greater value than the PGA Tour, they will continue to earn significantly less money. 

 

This...

[KBong]

4 hours ago, MagicClassic407 said:

WTH, Golf Channel should rerun those for sheer historical entertainment!! But prefer to see something like that come back to fruition as an official event.

What???....you don't want to see the Feherty episodes reruns for the 199th time when GC has nothing else better to show.🤣

[KBong]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

If the women's tour becomes more popular then they will make more money.  Actually I think that they are doing pretty well as it is!

Based on the overall low interest in women's golf and the LPGA...yes I think they are doing ok.

 

And as fans....we get quite a bit of LPGA coverage and we also get quite a bit of other women's golf coverage too....USGA events, ANWA, LET reruns, some NCAA events, etc, etc.

 

Heck....I sometimes watch some streams of KLPGA events and some JLPGA events too...some are delayed highlight recordings on Youtube too

[KBong]

10 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

1) The KPMG in particular has done a great job in securing tournaments at some excellent courses, e.g. Olympia Field. 

 

2) In addition, many of the setups on the LPGA are shall we say, a little suspect. One of the tournaments earlier this year had the tees moved up on two par 5s, and had a driveable par 4. Throw in a little too generous lift, clean, and place policy, and greens that are generally slower and less undulating, and one gets a nice recipe for low scores.

 

1) Sahalee too.... among others too.

The R&A has done a pretty good job getting the WBO to be played on some of iconic tracks across the pond too.

 

2) I agree....the gals HAVE TALENT....and I hate seeing them dumb down the courses and also shortening them too often.

They almost always play the course much shorter than the "posted' yardage.

The gals can easy handle 6500-6600 yards especially in dry, warm & firm conditions.

 

Yes....they play left, clean & cheat too often.

[KBong]

On 9/28/2021 at 11:07 AM, Argonne69 said:

The closest we get is when they play two tournaments on the same course in adjacent weeks (e.g. 2014 U.S. Open and U.S. Women's Open, The Olympics), or the alternate group format at the ISPS events.

 

I think the 2 week USO and then USWO in 2014 at Pinehurst was a one and done occurrence.

 

The USGA, PGA of America and R&A have announced many future major venues and none have announced the respective women's major the week following.

Yes....all 3 organizations have done some initiatives to help bring more attention to the women's game...but I think they could still do a bit more...but they all know it's the men's games that brings in the eyeballs to the game of golf.

 

Augusta National has created the annual ANWA....but that's only a 1 day event held at Augusta National.

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Guess I phrased in incorrectly. I was referring to the LPGA Tour tees being played.  It is mentioned often on the forum, always in reference to the women moving up a box or two but strangely the mens tour is never ridiculed the same way for the exact same behavior.
 

 

It's mentioned in this forum because we're discussing the LPGA here. I don't usually post in the Tour forum, but if I did I'd complain about the same thing. Based on the driving average of the PGA, they play shorter than the LPGA.

 

Creating artificially short holes that weren't originally designed as short risk/reward holes is a gimmick that both tours engage in. 

 

[PhilsFanDrew]

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Obviously the OP's idea will never happen and there are a lot of reasons for that!  I can think of a few:

 

If the two tours were combined as the OP suggests then we would have one tournament every weekend instead of two which means that half the ladies and half the men are out of a job.  Unless you are planning to double the field size somehow?  Not going to work.  Also you could never adjust the tees so that one side or the other was not complaining.  And PGA players would never agree to losing a million dollar purse to a women pro playing shorter tees on a regular basis.  Not gonna happen.  I like the current setup much better with two tours and I believe that it is much better for all involved.  The current setup means more jobs and more money in the pot overall. 

 

If the women's tour becomes more popular then they will make more money.  Actually I think that they are doing pretty well as it is!

 

It also wouldn't work because it lose viewership.  If PGA and LPGA merged into one entity/tour you better believe that another men's tour would organize and all the major men's players would join that tour.  Once that happens then all the pipe dreams of equal exposure and equitable pay go up in smoke. 

[Mustard_Tiger]

I'm all for gender equality. There should be one tour and the best players should get tour cards. Regardless of their gender.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Mustard_Tiger

[KBong]

4 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

1) I do complain about birdiefests that shorten holes with no risk elements. I think that cheapens the skills of the better players. The 17th at TPC Scottsdale is a great risk/reward hole. It was designed as a short par 4 with the risk of winding up in the penalty area. Taking an average par 4 and shortening it to 270 yds just to produce birdies isn't the same.

 

2) Yes, the PGA Tour does the same thing, I I dislike it just as much. Players hitting driver and 8 iron on a par "5"? Pfffttt.

 

1) You forgot about #10 at Riviera....another CLASSIC great short par 4 designed that way with fantastic risk/reward and a par is not even a guarantee.

 

Yes....I absolutely hate when a par 4 with no obvious penal areas or risk reward are shorten to make a driveable par 4.

#14 at the Vancouver Golf Club for the 2015 CWO was shortened on Sunday to make it driveable.

It was simply a long par 3....with no penal attributes in and around the green for any tee shots.

 

2) Ya...I hate seeing the big hitting PGA pros hit driver & 8 iron into a par 5...WTH.

The issue is...there are few 8200-8500+ yard courses that are available or those courses are ones the PGA tour would not consider a viable host venue because they lack good/great course architecture.