LPGA/PGA, why does it have to be separate?

[xoxo_tw]

Let's merge the PGA/LPGA tours

 

and let them play from tee boxes that on average gives them the same clubs on approach shots

 

I think that way the field would be equal...

[Argonne69]

3 hours ago, xoxo_tw said:

Let's merge the PGA/LPGA tours

 

and let them play from tee boxes that on average gives them the same clubs on approach shots

 

I think that way the field would be equal...

 

Would that be a traditional lofted club, or a power spec club? There's so much variation in club lofts these days that it would be difficult to determine. 

 

[Golf Dino]

5 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Would that be a traditional lofted club, or a power spec club? There's so much variation in club lofts these days that it would be difficult to determine. 

 

There should be enough data now to understand the median distances by players off the tee box and then set it up acordingly, in relation to the median of the men.  

 

For example if the median for second shots (on Par 4s) is 175 yards for men, then set it up for women at 140 - 150 yards or whatever a similar distance would be -- again based on statistical analysis. 

 

I mean, there will never be a combined tour full time. So this would be moot.  But it could be done.  It wouldn't be perfect, but Golf is not a game of perfect anyway.   

[chisag]

... I would hate to se the two tours combined. I don't watch the PGA Tour often outside of Majors and Team events but I watch every LPGA event big or small. I can identify with the women and their distances so their game is much more relative for me and my personal enjoyment. Watching a guy on tour hit a 340 yd drive and a 195yd 8 iron just holds no interest for me. The game has become much more about raw power than working the ball and playing with some finesse. Not complaining about it because athletes in the best shape and the equipment favor that approach. But watching Lydia Ko carve a hybrid to a back pin placement or get up and down virtually every time she is off the green is just much more interesting to me. 

... If You Build It They Will Come. Capitalism is ruled by cold hard cash and if the women had a following they would be raking in the dough. Sadly they do not. 

[woahnelly]

On 2/23/2022 at 6:33 PM, chisag said:

... I would hate to se the two tours combined. I don't watch the PGA Tour often outside of Majors and Team events but I watch every LPGA event big or small. I can identify with the women and their distances so their game is much more relative for me and my personal enjoyment. Watching a guy on tour hit a 340 yd drive and a 195yd 8 iron just holds no interest for me. The game has become much more about raw power than working the ball and playing with some finesse. Not complaining about it because athletes in the best shape and the equipment favor that approach. But watching Lydia Ko carve a hybrid to a back pin placement or get up and down virtually every time she is off the green is just much more interesting to me. 

... If You Build It They Will Come. Capitalism is ruled by cold hard cash and if the women had a following they would be raking in the dough. Sadly they do not. 

 8 iron ??? It's more like the driver/3wood + wedge show of late!  Only time the PGA is interesting is when the conditions come into play. Otherwise every event is a pitch and putt. Wake me up when the Masters start! 

 

Oh wait NVM Bay Hill is next week. Let's see Bryson bomb it over the lake and then end up with a par. 

[Nels55]

Mixed team events are fun to watch and the competition is balanced that way as the teams are equal.  I noticed a number of mixed team events in the Winter Games and I enjoyed watching them.  A mixed team golf world cup of some sort might be fun! 

[Argonne69]

On 2/23/2022 at 6:07 PM, Golf Dino said:

 

There should be enough data now to understand the median distances by players off the tee box and then set it up acordingly, in relation to the median of the men.  

 

For example if the median for second shots (on Par 4s) is 175 yards for men, then set it up for women at 140 - 150 yards or whatever a similar distance would be -- again based on statistical analysis. 

 

I mean, there will never be a combined tour full time. So this would be moot.  But it could be done.  It wouldn't be perfect, but Golf is not a game of perfect anyway.   

 

I think that makes more sense than selecting a specific club or loft. If the median driving distance of the women is 85% of the men, then set up the forward tees at 85%.

 

Of course the problem with this is that the design of the course may change the character of the hole at 85%. It could be easier, or harder. They'd probably have to tweak each and every hole.

 

[Golf Dino]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I think that makes more sense than selecting a specific club or loft. If the median driving distance of the women is 85% of the men, then set up the forward tees at 85%.

 

Of course the problem with this is that the design of the course may change the character of the hole at 85%. It could be easier, or harder. They'd probably have to tweak each and every hole.

 

 

Agreed.  But it isn't perfect and I doubt it ever will be.  But then again its all moot outside of perhaps a silly season mixed event.

[mikedellgolf]

Do not be fooled by tennis when both the ATP (men) and WTA (women) events are held at the same venue.  For example, at the CitiOpen in Washington DC, the men winner gets about 350K while the women winner gets about 43K.  It is like a 9:1 ratio.  The men matches generate revenues, not so much with women matches.

 

The only exception to this is at the majors (Australian, French, Wimbledon, and US Open) where both the men and women are getting equal prize money.  Indians Well is also an exception where both men and women get the same prize.

[Raving Shanker]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:56 PM, woahnelly said:

 8 iron ??? It's more like the driver/3wood + wedge show of late!  Only time the PGA is interesting is when the conditions come into play. Otherwise every event is a pitch and putt. Wake me up when the Masters start! 

 

Oh wait NVM Bay Hill is next week. Let's see Bryson bomb it over the lake and then end up with a par. 

I dream of seeing an 8-iron played!

[Raving Shanker]

I can't believe people are actually discussing this. If you don't play off the same tees, you are not competing in the same event.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Raving Shanker

[3whacker]

the LPGA needs to stand on its own merits...just look at Today's news headlines and ask yourself would the LPGA settle for being the sideshow at a PGA event, it would literally throw out everything they have worked for to get where they are today...the LPGA has a nice product , they just have to figure out how to market their product and make it their own...IMO they have a whole lot more to offer than the WNBA or the WTA does at this time...they might take a look at how the USFL is televising games by letting the fan feel like they are on the field...maybe they can do the same for the LPGA and make them feel more personal and a lot less like the PGA Tour telecasts

[MelloYello]

It's crazy to think about swing speed literally being the reason for all the discrepancy but that's what it is. Men are bigger and faster and that's literally what it comes down to. That is worth more to the viewer and thus the sports are not equal in their ability to generate revenue. 

 

It's fun to hypothesize. What if there were a way for women to swing 120mph using traditional golf equipment? Would they not evolve to play the game the same way the men do? Would that not necessitate tougher conditions? And if that were the case, would they not get the same kind of advertising & hype the top male Tour Pros do?

 

You can't hype up someone who hits it 245 down the middle and hits a 7-iron from 150 and makes a a fair share of 18-ft putts for birdie. Are these LPGA Pros exceptional golfers? Yes, but evidently it is not score that drives ratings but something else. And men simply have a massive advantage that makes women's sports all but irrelevant from a popularity-standpoint. 

 

The fact golf allows us to appreciate both sides of the game (men & women) is just another great thing about the sport. 

[OrangeGravy]

On 9/29/2021 at 4:01 PM, KBong said:

1) Sahalee too.... among others too.

The R&A has done a pretty good job getting the WBO to be played on some of iconic tracks across the pond too.

 

2) I agree....the gals HAVE TALENT....and I hate seeing them dumb down the courses and also shortening them too often.

They almost always play the course much shorter than the "posted' yardage.

The gals can easy handle 6500-6600 yards especially in dry, warm & firm conditions.

 

Yes....they play left, clean & cheat too often.

Yes it seems like every week they're stating 6500-6600 yards, but they're only playing 6200 yards of it. While a lot of them can handle the yardage, I have to think a significant amount of the field would be doa if they played 6500+ yards every week. There's already enough of them that have to bang hybrids from 170+ out. 

[North Texas]

3 hours ago, OrangeGravy said:

Yes it seems like every week they're stating 6500-6600 yards, but they're only playing 6200 yards of it. While a lot of them can handle the yardage, I have to think a significant amount of the field would be doa if they played 6500+ yards every week. There's already enough of them that have to bang hybrids from 170+ out. 

 

I agree that 6500 would significantly tax most LPGA pros. Based on women yardages being about 85% of the men here are equivalent yardage lengths for each.

 

7600 for men = 6460 for women.

7400 for men = 6290 for women.

7200 for men = 6120 for women. 

[Titleist_PT23]

17 minutes ago, North Texas said:

 

I agree that 6500 would significantly tax most LPGA pros. Based on women yardages being about 85% of the men here are equivalent yardage lengths for each.

 

7600 for men = 6460 for women.

7400 for men = 6290 for women.

7200 for men = 6120 for women. 

Median / Median is about 87.1%.  Would give about 6,300 - 6,600 vs. 7,200 - 7,600

[Titleist_PT23]

Historically, I think the women have played slightly longer courses (stated yardage) vs. the men when calculated on total yardage / median driving distance.

 

However, I have always thought the men have more longer par 3s and long par 4s.  The men probably have more par 70 layouts too, which may slightly skew the calculations.

 

Either way, I think yardage itself has proven to be of little defense for these players (both tours).  At the same time, watching people hit a mid-iron to a "par 5" kind of seems like a joke too.  My sense is that the women should be playing at least 6,500 or so as a stock yardage (obviously there are other factors at play here), which may mean the men need to back it up too.

[Argonne69]

Yeah, seems pretty rare for the LPGA to play a 200+ yd par 3. Even 190 seems rare. Both tours have very few par 5s that are legit 3 shot holes, especially the PGA. With 300+ yd drives, and nearly 300 yd 3 woods, the men would have to be playing 650 yds or more to be con a three shot hole. 

 

[Golf Dino]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

Yeah, seems pretty rare for the LPGA to play a 200+ yd par 3. Even 190 seems rare. Both tours have very few par 5s that are legit 3 shot holes, especially the PGA. With 300+ yd drives, and nearly 300 yd 3 woods, the men would have to be playing 650 yds or more to be con a three shot hole. 

 

 

And even then, a longer par 5 will just put a wedge or short scoring club in their hands.  😞 

[Argonne69]

9 minutes ago, Golf Dino said:

 

And even then, a longer par 5 will just put a wedge or short scoring club in their hands.  😞 

 

I think that's fair, though. For a scratch player, a 250 yd driver, and a 200 yd fairway wood will leave 50 yds into a 500 yd hole, or 100 yds into a 550 yd hole. I play most of my rounds at 6500 yds or less, and don't often see par 5s over 550 yds.