Anyone with have 9 year olds playing from 5400 yards?

[MRx747]

My 9yo was invited to play with a group that plays the ladies tee at 5400 weekly,  was wondering if anyone have their kids play from around that distance and what kind of score are they shooting?

 

my kid shot 87 today, driver distance is about 140-150 carry, 7i 95-100 yards carry. 

 

Thanks.

[tiger1873]

So many factors can go into scores.

 

87 should be possibley for a 9 year old who can hit the ball and play ok.  I would think 85 - 100 is what you should expect with below 90 being a good day.

 

I am guessing they should be able to hit most holes in 3 and put for 2.  If you play solid bogey golf you will break 90 on most days. 

 

If you set realistic goals it should be ok  just make sure it's fun and people are not too competitive that they discourage your kid.

Edited October 4, 2021 by tiger1873

[mrshinsa]

5400 is definitely long.  

As Tiger said, set the expectations right and it might be ok.

 

We once paired up with a 11-yo girl whos parents made her play from the tips, just so that she could get more shots in.

The people behind us weren't too pleased.

[MRx747]

Thanks Gents!

 

 

[Kcct82]

5400 is reasonable and good practice for “saving par” from 20-50 yards out. My soon to be 9YO plays that distance at our home course. He’s about 10 yards shorter than your kid. The best he has done is 4 over (9 holes 2700 yds). Keep in mind to play US Kids yardages from time to time as well, since you won’t have any iron shots at 5400. 

[DevilDog]

Proper distance to play should be predicated on how far the kid can hit the ball.  Too long and it is just a frustrating day for the kid.  According to this, should be about 3500-4600 for someone that hits the distance you child does.  Table in the link about midway down the page that should provide some guidance.

 

https://help.18birdies.com/article/550-what-tees-should-i-play

[heavy_hitter]

30 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Proper distance to play should be predicated on how far the kid can hit the ball.  Too long and it is just a frustrating day for the kid.  According to this, should be about 3500-4600 for someone that hits the distance you child does.  Table in the link about midway down the page that should provide some guidance.

 

https://help.18birdies.com/article/550-what-tees-should-i-play

 

100% agree with this.

[RmoorePE]

I attended my first PGA Jr league match the other day, and noticed how short they set up the course. I asked and one of the coaches told me it is more fun to have closer tees so that the competition and drama is centered around the greens.

 

He told me that he and the other coaches pay really close attention to how far kids hit it during the practice days and err on the side of too easy of driving when they set up the course, so that the competition is based on approaches, wedges, and putting. It improves pace of play, and makes the scoring  much tighter. His point was kids have way more fun scoring around par, and it keeps their interest high and stress level low (i.e. = Fun). He stated that the course setup gets harder as they move along, but the point is always low scoring. It handcuffs the longer hitters a bit, which is okay.

 

His opinion is that there are plenty of events that favor the longer hitters, and I agree. In state competition my daughter played at around 6000 yards, but her short game was not good enough to make top 5. I think it is fine to sprinkle in days where they are playing from a long ways out, but building confidence in scoring is really important.

 

I have probably been asking too much of my daughter in practice rounds, as stated above she should probably spend more time on the correct tees (5800 or less) -she is 13. Don't get me wrong - distance matters, and we should always try to help them get longer. That just doesn't necessarily have to be on the course.

 

 

[killer21]

My daughter is 12 and played several 15U events that were around 5400 yards.  Some kids her age and younger shot in the mid high seventies so when my daughter shot in mid to high eighties it was very frustrating and put a lot pressure on her course management which she wasn't willing to learn. 

 

At her age, she has one speed to go for it and no interest in laying up and playing for the front of greens so that concept was very hard for her to accept.  She had way more fun at U.S. Kids fall local tour from 4600 yards and shooting in the low seventies.  In my opinion the year was a bit of a waste as there weren't a lot of options during the summer at her age appropriate yardage so I don't think 5400 yards did very much for her except cause a lot of heart ache for us both 😂.

[tiger1873]

The ideal yardage uses is when it is long enough to use a driver on most holes but still hit greens in regulations on most holes with a 7 iron or less.

 

If your using wedges or anything longer then a 7 iron on most holes the yardage should be considered long for them and scores will rise when you play it.

 

you can have the best short game in the world but if your not good with the irons your not going to do well when it matters. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by tiger1873

[ncalgolf]

On 10/3/2021 at 7:57 PM, MRx747 said:

My 9yo was invited to play with a group that plays the ladies tee at 5400 weekly,  was wondering if anyone have their kids play from around that distance and what kind of score are they shooting?

 

my kid shot 87 today, driver distance is about 140-150 carry, 7i 95-100 yards carry. 

 

Thanks.

My daughter is 9 and plays that distance is shooting low 80s, her carry yardages are about the same as your boy - I'd say its too long for her but she has fun mixing it up.  I prefer stuff closer 4800 yards so she has to hit more long iron shots instead of her hybrid and FWs

[tiger1873]

16 hours ago, ncalgolf said:

My daughter is 9 and plays that distance is shooting low 80s, her carry yardages are about the same as your boy - I'd say its too long for her but she has fun mixing it up.  I prefer stuff closer 4800 yards so she has to hit more long iron shots instead of her hybrid and FWs

 

Are you playing with a lot elevation or very dry courses with 50 yards of roll?  I have a hard time believing a 9 year girl who driver is around 150 yards can score in the low 80's with any consistency at 5400 yards. Most likely they are shooting high 80's and 90's that is being very generous. 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by tiger1873

[Kcct82]

6 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Are you playing with a lot elevation or very dry courses with 50 yards of roll?  I have a hard time believing a 9 year girl who driver is around 150 yards can score in the low 80's with any consistency at 5400 yards. Most likely they are shooting high 80's and 90's that is being very generous. 

 

If you just add a stroke to all the par 4’s and 5’s to make up for the distance (86 strokes), it’s certainly possible to shoot in the low 80’s on a good day. But to do so consistently would be quite amazing.

[ncalgolf]

7 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Are you playing with a lot elevation or very dry courses with 50 yards of roll?  I have a hard time believing a 9 year girl who driver is around 150 yards can score in the low 80's with any consistency at 5400 yards. Most likely they are shooting high 80's and 90's that is being very generous. 

 

She is getting closer to 10 - we've only played those yardages about 4x but all were low 80s under 84 - she carries driver about 150 we get about 20 to 25 yards of roll - we are at sea level I'd say average roll i guess - My kid plays with other girls who will also shoot similar scores - typically we play shorter yardages but yeah she is pretty good i guess

Edited October 8, 2021 by ncalgolf

[MRx747]

Thanks for sharing all the information everyone. Just got another round in today.

 

Since that day my kid shot 87, we played at two other courses from the RedTee. First two course we have only played once there, the one we played at today is a course we played many times for tournaments. 

 

5400- shot 87 (29 putts) Wednesday. 

 

5520- shot 86 (33 putts) Today.

 

I do think its very possible to shoot in the low 80's, my kid is far from great, have never finished 1st in any tournaments in his age group ( 30+ tournaments ), and is a few strokes away from that type of number, so for kids that play clean without errors off the tee and a strong game with all their clubs ( No tops or shots too deep  ), especially with a strong short game, its very realistic to go low 80s. My kid had a triple, 2 doubles, 8 bogeys, 6 pars and a birdie today, 33 putts. I would say he had a couple unclean drives off the tee, 2 missed fairways, some unclean holes with a bad bunker shots, and a shank here and top there.

 

Here is how his day went. This is a mountain course with some flats so some holes the roll is amazing and some holes the ball barely rolls.

 

Par 5's

 

486 yards- Par -2putt

330 yards- Par - 2putt

480 yards- bogey - 2putt

479 yards- bogey - 2putt

493 yards- Par - 2putt

 

Par 4's

 

310 yards- double bogey -2putt

328 yards- bogey - 2putt

297 yards- bogey - 1putt

255 yards- bogey - 2putt

287 yards- double bogey - 2putt

363 yards- triple bogey - 2putt

355 yards- Par - 2putt

381 yards- Birdie - 1putt

 

Par 3's

 

168 yards- bogey - 2putt

137 yards- bogey - 2putt

133 yards- Par - 1putt

120 yards- Par - 2putt

118 yards- bogey - 2putt

 

 

My boy is 9 and a half, very short for his age, the shortest one in his class, and always get mistaken for a 2nd grader or younger during school events, he is in 4th grade and also on the very skinny side, so he is small. I introduced him to golf in 2016, he was 5 that year, we had a few lessons, went to the range a bunch for about a year but sadly it just wasn't for him at that age, so we stopped completely for a year plus, at that time, he wasn't able to hit balls with any consistency, we also play regularly in the local soccer, basketball and baseball ( Tee-Ball ) leagues all year round, with lots of swimming. In the summer of 2019 he asked to go to the range out of nowhere, and we been at it ever since, I would say it took him close to April of 2020 for him to be able to hit golf balls that look like a decent golf shot without the 50% rate or more of tops and shanks. His current setup is SIM2 Max Driver with a 6g weight piece we found on eBay, all other clubs are series 1 Flynn Golf VT Max Alto, 5iron to wedges 52, 56, 60. We had the sim2 hybrid and MG wedges in the bag but realize it was just too heavy for him, also have a set of the P790's that he hit so well during demo day indoor with a trackman but after getting them and trying them out at the range it was just too heavy for him to be consistent, the extra carry yardage and roll wasn't worth it with the close to 50% miss or funny shots. Lots of coaches would comment on his iron play during tournaments, so I guess thats the strong part of his game, decent driver, but not the longest in our area with kids around his age, his weak link got to be his chip shots ( short game ), he rarely one chip one putt, but is a solid putter.

 

Driver  140-150 carry, roll anywhere from 10-25+ 

FW       115-120 carry, get a nice decent roll 20+

Hybrid  100-110 carry, 15+ yard roll

5i   105 carry, he doesnt use this much, cant really hit it well

6i   100 carry, 15 yard roll

7i   95 carry, 13 yard roll

8i   90 carry, 10 yard roll

9i   80 carry, 10 yard roll 

PW 75 carry, 5 yard roll

52   70 carry, 5 yard roll

56   60 carry, 5 yards roll

60   50-55 carry, 5 yard roll, doesnt use it for approach, only uses it 25 yards in and around the green.

 

 

US Kids tournament around our area for his age have them playing around 3800yards, bigger tournaments we play at have them playing anywhere from 4400-4800. From 3800 yards, best he shot was 75 a couple times, both times was during practice rounds and he averages under 80, for tournaments his best was 78, with a 79, 80 82 84 86 not in order. From 44-4800 yards, he shot 84 and 89 in last month's tournament but we do not get any practices rounds from that distance unless its practice rounds before a tournament. 

 

Reason why we are appreciative of this once a week RedTee invite is we feel like we at the point in his short/young golf career where we need to add consistent course play into his routine. We average about 18 holes every two to three weeks for the past year, which we thought wasn't enough. We aren't hardcore like some of the elite kids with practice hours, but he loves golf and we are looking to create a new routine for him. Tuesday Thursday after school is range day about a hour. Monday Wednesday we practice short game at home, chipping and putting for a bout a hour. Friday we head to the local Golf Clubs practice green for about 2 hours or when the sun sets, they dont have lights there. Every other Saturday we visit his coach. Sundays we are playing from the Red Tee.

 

[Kcct82]

2 hours ago, MRx747 said:

Thanks for sharing all the information everyone. Just got another round in today.

 

Since that day my kid shot 87, we played at two other courses from the RedTee. First two course we have only played once there, the one we played at today is a course we played many times for tournaments. 

 

5400- shot 87 (29 putts) Wednesday. 

 

5520- shot 86 (33 putts) Today.

 

I do think its very possible to shoot in the low 80's, my kid is far from great, have never finished 1st in any tournaments in his age group ( 30+ tournaments ), and is a few strokes away from that type of number, so for kids that play clean without errors off the tee and a strong game with all their clubs ( No tops or shots too deep  ), especially with a strong short game, its very realistic to go low 80s. My kid had a triple, 2 doubles, 8 bogeys, 6 pars and a birdie today, 33 putts. I would say he had a couple unclean drives off the tee, 2 missed fairways, some unclean holes with a bad bunker shots, and a shank here and top there.

 

Here is how his day went. This is a mountain course with some flats so some holes the roll is amazing and some holes the ball barely rolls.

 

Par 5's

 

486 yards- Par -2putt

330 yards- Par - 2putt

480 yards- bogey - 2putt

479 yards- bogey - 2putt

493 yards- Par - 2putt

 

Par 4's

 

310 yards- double bogey -2putt

328 yards- bogey - 2putt

297 yards- bogey - 1putt

255 yards- bogey - 2putt

287 yards- double bogey - 2putt

363 yards- triple bogey - 2putt

355 yards- Par - 2putt

381 yards- Birdie - 1putt

 

Par 3's

 

168 yards- bogey - 2putt

137 yards- bogey - 2putt

133 yards- Par - 1putt

120 yards- Par - 2putt

118 yards- bogey - 2putt

 

 

My boy is 9 and a half, very short for his age, the shortest one in his class, and always get mistaken for a 2nd grader or younger during school events, he is in 4th grade and also on the very skinny side, so he is small. I introduced him to golf in 2016, he was 5 that year, we had a few lessons, went to the range a bunch for about a year but sadly it just wasn't for him at that age, so we stopped completely for a year plus, at that time, he wasn't able to hit balls with any consistency, we also play regularly in the local soccer, basketball and baseball ( Tee-Ball ) leagues all year round, with lots of swimming. In the summer of 2019 he asked to go to the range out of nowhere, and we been at it ever since, I would say it took him close to April of 2020 for him to be able to hit golf balls that look like a decent golf shot without the 50% rate or more of tops and shanks. His current setup is SIM2 Max Driver with a 6g weight piece we found on eBay, all other clubs are series 1 Flynn Golf VT Max Alto, 5iron to wedges 52, 56, 60. We had the sim2 hybrid and MG wedges in the bag but realize it was just too heavy for him, also have a set of the P790's that he hit so well during demo day indoor with a trackman but after getting them and trying them out at the range it was just too heavy for him to be consistent, the extra carry yardage and roll wasn't worth it with the close to 50% miss or funny shots. Lots of coaches would comment on his iron play during tournaments, so I guess thats the strong part of his game, decent driver, but not the longest in our area with kids around his age, his weak link got to be his chip shots ( short game ), he rarely one chip one putt, but is a solid putter.

 

Driver  140-150 carry, roll anywhere from 10-25+ 

FW       115-120 carry, get a nice decent roll 20+

Hybrid  100-110 carry, 15+ yard roll

5i   105 carry, he doesnt use this much, cant really hit it well

6i   100 carry, 15 yard roll

7i   95 carry, 13 yard roll

8i   90 carry, 10 yard roll

9i   80 carry, 10 yard roll 

PW 75 carry, 5 yard roll

52   70 carry, 5 yard roll

56   60 carry, 5 yards roll

60   50-55 carry, 5 yard roll, doesnt use it for approach, only uses it 25 yards in and around the green.

 

 

US Kids tournament around our area for his age have them playing around 3800yards, bigger tournaments we play at have them playing anywhere from 4400-4800. From 3800 yards, best he shot was 75 a couple times, both times was during practice rounds and he averages under 80, for tournaments his best was 78, with a 79, 80 82 84 86 not in order. From 44-4800 yards, he shot 84 and 89 in last month's tournament but we do not get any practices rounds from that distance unless its practice rounds before a tournament. 

 

Reason why we are appreciative of this once a week RedTee invite is we feel like we at the point in his short/young golf career where we need to add consistent course play into his routine. We average about 18 holes every two to three weeks for the past year, which we thought wasn't enough. We aren't hardcore like some of the elite kids with practice hours, but he loves golf and we are looking to create a new routine for him. Tuesday Thursday after school is range day about a hour. Monday Wednesday we practice short game at home, chipping and putting for a bout a hour. Friday we head to the local Golf Clubs practice green for about 2 hours or when the sun sets, they dont have lights there. Every other Saturday we visit his coach. Sundays we are playing from the Red Tee.

 

Pretty good schedule, but do play course more often if you want his short game around the green to improve fast. My $0.02 😀

[Medson]

Kudos to the kids. I'm impressed by the scores. Those aren't easy scores for the young kids. 

 

It looks most of the kids are on the young side (as in pre teen). Mine is too. I figure unless there's some big technical issues that require repetitively hitting balls. It is always better to play on the course. And if you can somehow make the round more social (with kid's friends, with your friends, etc), the merrier. 

[SlickT73]

I completely and utterly disagree with the shifts in junior golf in recent years - including toward setting up courses that produce scores similar to adult scores. This is completely contrary to how I and my generation and most subsequent learned (I’m 37 and have played since I could stand) and doesn’t teach kids to hit and have every shot in the bag the way playing from standard forward/ladies’ tees to start does. 6 year olds making eagles is non-sensical. It’d be one thing if it taught skills better - it doesn’t. If you have an absolute beginner starting in the fairway makes sense…but not for long and not for tournament golf.

 

The nerfing hasn’t stopped there either - my private club’s “Junior Club Championship” for my son’s age (8) was set at 3 holes…that’s insanity. We played 36 just like the older kids. It was great fun and taught you so much about the game. The group of junior golfers was also much larger then - and no one cared that there were some kids shooting in the 120s each day. They were included just like everyone else. Most of these juniors still play as adults today and many at that same club. High scores don’t chase people away.

 

We also weren’t allowed parents or caddies in tournaments - which is as it should be at that age. That is the time to figure it out on your own and learn to play with your peer group. The parents could watch (usually didn’t) but had to remain at least a certain distance away for the length of the round.

 

My son’s learning on a full length course as I believe is best. If they need a handy way to keep score - make the holes par 7s for the purposes of mental scorekeeping, then 6s.

 

Love the improvements in equipment - hate the direction they’re trying to take the game. It’s almost as bad as half-ice 4-on-4 hockey for 9 year olds with no rules and “no scores” (ha! Every kid knows)…but that’s another rant for another place.

[tiger1873]

20 minutes ago, SlickT73 said:

I completely and utterly disagree with the shifts in junior golf in recent years - including toward setting up courses that produce scores similar to adult scores. This is completely contrary to how I and my generation and most subsequent learned (I’m 37 and have played since I could stand) and doesn’t teach kids to hit and have every shot in the bag the way playing from standard forward/ladies’ tees to start does. 6 year olds making eagles is non-sensical. It’d be one thing if it taught skills better - it doesn’t. If you have an absolute beginner starting in the fairway makes sense…but not for long and not for tournament golf.

 

The nerfing hasn’t stopped there either - my private club’s “Junior Club Championship” for my son’s age (8) was set at 3 holes…that’s insanity. We played 36 just like the older kids. It was great fun and taught you so much about the game. The group of junior golfers was also much larger then - and no one cared that there were some kids shooting in the 120s each day. They were included just like everyone else. Most of these juniors still play as adults today and many at that same club. High scores don’t chase people away.

 

We also weren’t allowed parents or caddies in tournaments - which is as it should be at that age. That is the time to figure it out on your own and learn to play with your peer group. The parents could watch (usually didn’t) but had to remain at least a certain distance away for the length of the round.

 

My son’s learning on a full length course as I believe is best. If they need a handy way to keep score - make the holes par 7s for the purposes of mental scorekeeping, then 6s.

 

Love the improvements in equipment - hate the direction they’re trying to take the game. It’s almost as bad as half-ice 4-on-4 hockey for 9 year olds with no rules and “no scores” (ha! Every kid knows)…but that’s another rant for another place.

 

 

Some of what you say is correct if you have a young kid there is no way they should be making eagles and albatrosses every round. That is not real golf no matter what anyone thinks.  it basically means they are not playing from long enough yardages.

 

But I will say this you don't want to playing from tee's crazy long.  If it takes more than 3 to hit a green you are not doing a favor to anyone.

 

Personally I think if you able to hit it on 2 with a Iron on most holes your probaly playing the correct distance. Unless your talking older kids you should try and move up if there using a wedge or can't use a driver for every hole.

 

You really can choose how many holes a kids play. I think there is a place for 9,18 and 36 and 54 hole events.  I miss those 9 hole tournaments where it only took a few hours rather then the whole weekend.

 

If your just getting into Junior Golf look at the older kids events. Don't worry about the younger events so much they're just there to play and have fun.  Only need to do a few a year to get a feel to see if you kid likes golf.  No need to travel either. Once they get older and can play the better events  and score below 100 start doing those tournaments. You don't need years of tournaments to play them either. Some kids score quit high in 36 events and no one cares that much.

Edited November 1, 2021 by tiger1873

[golfer929]

8 hours ago, SlickT73 said:

I completely and utterly disagree with the shifts in junior golf in recent years - including toward setting up courses that produce scores similar to adult scores. This is completely contrary to how I and my generation and most subsequent learned (I’m 37 and have played since I could stand) and doesn’t teach kids to hit and have every shot in the bag the way playing from standard forward/ladies’ tees to start does. 6 year olds making eagles is non-sensical. It’d be one thing if it taught skills better - it doesn’t. If you have an absolute beginner starting in the fairway makes sense…but not for long and not for tournament golf.

 

So should we have 8-10 year old kids playing on an MLB size field? And they should probably move the 3-point line back to the NBA length too for youth basketball!

 

I am sorry, but I disagree. No kid is going to learn to hit "every shot in the bag" when they have to go driver, 3-wood, 3-wood, wedge on every hole. Wouldn't you agree that they learn the game better by trying to get up & down for par? Or having the pressure of a birdie putt? Or having to choose between 6 iron and 7-iron on a par 3? And what isn't to like about them being able to shoot a score in the 70's/80's? It can't be that much fun to go out and shoot 120-130 every time!

 

Your entire post is about how kids have it too easy nowadays and this isn't how you learned to play the game and they should play from the back tees to learn, and junior golf gives off a "Everyone is a winner" mentality, but then you literally say "Make the holes par 7's for mental scorekeeping, then 6's". Do you not see the irony in that?! Come on man, lol!

[SlickT73]

You completely missed the point of my post and also clearly didn’t read the “for mental scorekeeping purposes” part.

 

This has nothing to do with “kids have it too easy”. It has to do with they won’t learn the skills as well this way.

 

There’s zero wrong or “not fun” with hitting driver-3w-5i-wedge or something to that effect most holes. Progression of score is also more relatable and understandable than progression of handicap for a very long time. This approach takes that away.

 

There’s a ton not to like about 8 year olds “shooting 65”.

 

I also never said the back tees.

 

Getting up and down is the point when learning - not whether it’s for 4 or 9 or at a practice area.

 

I also never once commented on anything resembling “everyone’s a winner” at golf. You appear to be trying to link my post to a rant you felt like going on.

Edited November 2, 2021 by SlickT73

[RmoorePE]

First of all in a kids tournament if everyone had to take 4 strokes to get to the green, every round would be 6+ hours of misery. I can see it if you are out alone with your kid on a not busy course somewhere, to let them try from longer tees. We do that a lot for practice purposes. When daughter wants to score, she plays the tees that she would play in a tournament (forward or regular) depending on the type of tournament.

 

But hitting a 3 wood to advance the ball down the fairway on par 4s is not teaching much. If they have to hit a driver and then a fairway wood down the widest part of the fairway to get to an iron play is not a good use of time in my opinion. They will do that on the par 5's and maybe one or two long par 4s. That should be enough. Correct tees has second shots on Par 4s between 90 and 165 yards. This is where golf tournaments are mostly won and lost, at least until they are in bigger, harder tournaments.

 

Progression of score from 94 to 74 is what happens if the kids play the correct tees. Seems like more fun to me, and definitely to the kids.

 

I don't think a 3 hole contest really is much of a championship, at least give them 9 holes. Plenty of 9 hole events for 8 year olds out there. Caddied and non-caddied.

 

I strongly prefer non-caddy, but that is just because I can't handle the abuse. I convinced my daughter to play the wrong club last weekend and I still haven't heard the end of it.

[tiger1873]

15 hours ago, SlickT73 said:

 

 

There’s a ton not to like about 8 year olds “shooting 65”.

 

 

If you playing tournaments where random kids are signing up with no qualifiers and kids are scoring 65 my suggesting is to run far far away from that tournament.   Something is wrong if those kids want to keep playing beginner tournaments.

 

Junior golf under 10 is nothing like when kids get older.  At some point between 12-15 it seems to stop being about how good the dad's are at golf to are more about how much the kids want to play and get better.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by tiger1873

[MattC555]

You should be playing the proper tees based on driving distance regardless of age.  The game should be fun.  I sure don't want to go out and hit driver, 3w, 3w, iron on every hole.  5400 yards with a 150 yard drive is incredibly difficult.  That is more or less the equivalent of me playing from 10000 yards.  No thanks. 

 

As a youth I most often played an executive par 30 at 3700 yards.  It was a great introduction to golf.

 

 

[SlickT73]

1 hour ago, RmoorePE said:

First of all in a kids tournament if everyone had to take 4 strokes to get to the green, every round would be 6+ hours of misery. I can see it if you are out alone with your kid on a not busy course somewhere, to let them try from longer tees. We do that a lot for practice purposes. When daughter wants to score, she plays the tees that she would play in a tournament (forward or regular) depending on the type of tournament.

 

But hitting a 3 wood to advance the ball down the fairway on par 4s is not teaching much. If they have to hit a driver and then a fairway wood down the widest part of the fairway to get to an iron play is not a good use of time in my opinion. They will do that on the par 5's and maybe one or two long par 4s. That should be enough. Correct tees has second shots on Par 4s between 90 and 165 yards. This is where golf tournaments are mostly won and lost, at least until they are in bigger, harder tournaments.

 

Progression of score from 94 to 74 is what happens if the kids play the correct tees. Seems like more fun to me, and definitely to the kids.

 

I don't think a 3 hole contest really is much of a championship, at least give them 9 holes. Plenty of 9 hole events for 8 year olds out there. Caddied and non-caddied.

 

I strongly prefer non-caddy, but that is just because I can't handle the abuse. I convinced my daughter to play the wrong club last weekend and I still haven't heard the end of it.

Struggling with why you’d suggest long rounds. Kids have been playing the way I described for decades and moving around just as fast or faster than adults. They are much less likely to take forever and a day to decide a shot or hit a putt. Score does not necessarily equate to speed. There are old lady walking groups who take all of 3 hours to fire their 115s…it’s about how you move.

[SlickT73]

16 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

You should be playing the proper tees based on driving distance regardless of age.  The game should be fun.  I sure don't want to go out and hit driver, 3w, 3w, iron on every hole.  5400 yards with a 150 yard drive is incredibly difficult.  That is more or less the equivalent of me playing from 10000 yards.  No thanks. 

 

As a youth I most often played an executive par 30 at 3700 yards.  It was a great introduction to golf.

 

 

My son shot 88 playing from 5317 last year on vacation driving it about as far as you suggest. It was not “incredibly difficult”. He learned a bunch playing a course we wouldn’t normally play and much more importantly had a great time doing it. I don’t see why anyone would ever want to knock 1000+ yards off of that. If that’s how a person thinks skill is built then by all means go ahead - but I don’t see it and it sure sounds like people are convincing themselves golf is way harder/more boring/frustrating for young people than it might be. I see and have seen a whole ton of them having a great time and learning a whole bunch on the course and range - aside from these tournaments that seem to have gone a whole different way.

 

There are a bunch of differences in the game at that age of course, but one right off the bat is that drives will almost exclusively and necessarily be straighter because of reduced SS. Compensating for that for someone who wants to learn and be challenged is an interesting thing to figure out.

[RmoorePE]

34 minutes ago, SlickT73 said:

Struggling with why you’d suggest long rounds. Kids have been playing the way I described for decades and moving around just as fast or faster than adults. They are much less likely to take forever and a day to decide a shot or hit a putt. Score does not necessarily equate to speed. There are old lady walking groups who take all of 3 hours to fire their 115s…it’s about how you move.

 

Your experience may be different than mine. We have only been in the Jr. tournament world for a bit, but they are slow affairs. The marshals are out there all day pushing pace of play, even though most of the POP issues I see are kids waiting around for the marshals, instead of just making a rules decision on their own. Further JGA rules regarding POP are always up front and center in the hard card ( and for good reason). Daughter played a USK event this weekend, round took 5.75 hours and the kids were in 3 somes. Of course it was at Chambers Bay which can snag a group up pretty easy with the rough/bunkers. But in August she played at our state JGA tournament on fairly simple 5500 yard track and it took 5 hours each day. I think 4 hour rounds would be awesome, but when kids are grinding they play slow. Playing from the wrong tees would mean up to 15 extra shots per player.

 

Just out playing for fun I think most kids get around pretty quick. I know mine do. Then again, over the last couple of years I have started to see a lot of groups of kids playing really slow. Usually due to trying to record their game for TiKTok or whatever, or just looking at their phones a lot.

 

My opinion is everyone should play from the correct tees for their driver distance. That means your driver lands in the area the golf course was designed for it to land in. The big part of the fairway. 

[heavy_hitter]

4 minutes ago, RmoorePE said:

 

Your experience may be different than mine. We have only been in the Jr. tournament world for a bit, but they are slow affairs. The marshals are out there all day pushing pace of play, even though most of the POP issues I see are kids waiting around for the marshals, instead of just making a rules decision on their own. Further JGA rules regarding POP are always up front and center in the hard card ( and for good reason). Daughter played a USK event this weekend, round took 5.75 hours and the kids were in 3 somes. Of course it was at Chambers Bay which can snag a group up pretty easy with the rough/bunkers. But in August she played at our state JGA tournament on fairly simple 5500 yard track and it took 5 hours each day. I think 4 hour rounds would be awesome, but when kids are grinding they play slow. Playing from the wrong tees would mean up to 15 extra shots per player.

 

Just out playing for fun I think most kids get around pretty quick. I know mine do. Then again, over the last couple of years I have started to see a lot of groups of kids playing really slow. Usually due to trying to record their game for TiKTok or whatever, or just looking at their phones a lot.

 

My opinion is everyone should play from the correct tees for their driver distance. That means your driver lands in the area the golf course was designed for it to land in. The big part of the fairway. 

 

You are spot on.  

[SlickT73]

36 minutes ago, RmoorePE said:

 

Your experience may be different than mine. We have only been in the Jr. tournament world for a bit, but they are slow affairs. The marshals are out there all day pushing pace of play, even though most of the POP issues I see are kids waiting around for the marshals, instead of just making a rules decision on their own. Further JGA rules regarding POP are always up front and center in the hard card ( and for good reason). Daughter played a USK event this weekend, round took 5.75 hours and the kids were in 3 somes. Of course it was at Chambers Bay which can snag a group up pretty easy with the rough/bunkers. But in August she played at our state JGA tournament on fairly simple 5500 yard track and it took 5 hours each day. I think 4 hour rounds would be awesome, but when kids are grinding they play slow. Playing from the wrong tees would mean up to 15 extra shots per player.

 

Just out playing for fun I think most kids get around pretty quick. I know mine do. Then again, over the last couple of years I have started to see a lot of groups of kids playing really slow. Usually due to trying to record their game for TiKTok or whatever, or just looking at their phones a lot.

 

My opinion is everyone should play from the correct tees for their driver distance. That means your driver lands in the area the golf course was designed for it to land in. The big part of the fairway. 

Yikes - that is certainly worth looking at. Moving and playing at a proper speed is such an essential skill to learn early. Makes it so much more enjoyable too of course.

 

I wonder how much of the issue is the kids and how much is the adults…my main experiences with slow junior rounds have largely related to the latter.

Edited November 2, 2021 by SlickT73

[golfer929]

22 hours ago, SlickT73 said:

You completely missed the point of my post and also clearly didn’t read the “for mental scorekeeping purposes” part.

 

This has nothing to do with “kids have it too easy”. It has to do with they won’t learn the skills as well this way.

 

There’s zero wrong or “not fun” with hitting driver-3w-5i-wedge or something to that effect most holes. Progression of score is also more relatable and understandable than progression of handicap for a very long time. This approach takes that away.

 

There’s a ton not to like about 8 year olds “shooting 65”.

 

I also never said the back tees.

 

Getting up and down is the point when learning - not whether it’s for 4 or 9 or at a practice area.

 

I also never once commented on anything resembling “everyone’s a winner” at golf. You appear to be trying to link my post to a rant you felt like going on.

Maybe I misread the point of your post, but I don't feel like I did. I read your post. I typed out and quoted exactly what you said about "Mental scorekeeping purposes".  What are mental scorekeeping purposes? Because in my mind, it seems like you are just making it a par 7 and when a kid makes an 8 on that hole, they say they got a bogey. Instead of a Quad if it was a par 4. Again, I have to go back to it just being ironic that you are upset about people "Nerfing" junior golf when you are doing the exact same thing in that instance. I also have a tough time believing that there are a ton of 8 year olds shooting 65, never mind a consistent basis, but even more than once or at all. No reply back on my comparison to kids playing on MLB fields, and shooting NBA distance 3's as well. If they are playing the forward tee maybe its more like a 300 foot fence and a college 3-point line. But still, why do we have kids move up and play from there, but we can't apply the same rule in golf?

 

On your comment about me ranting about "Everyone is a winner", you initially brought it up. Maybe didn't outright say it, but it is strongly inferred. "Love the improvements in equipment - hate the direction they’re trying to take the game. It’s almost as bad as half-ice 4-on-4 hockey for 9 year olds with no rules and “no scores”" (ha! Every kid knows)…

 

Yes, you are correct, you never said the back tees. I should have clarified better. When I said back tees, in my mind I was thinking: back tees of the fairway, which would be the forward/ladies like you said. Apologies. 

 

The number of junior golfers has also remained at the same level today as it was in 1995 (3 million). In the early 2000's, Junior golfers rose to a peak of 4 million due to the Tiger Boom. So I would argue that junior golf is in a better place now than it was back then because there is no ultra dominant face of golf anymore like Tiger at the forefront, and there still is the same number of kids playing. Another positive of that is over 1/3rd of them now are girls who play golf. All according to National Golf Foundation.

 

It goes without saying that any parent needs to do what they believe is best for their child, but all I'm saying is that there are multiple successful golf companies that teach junior golf starting as close to the green as possible (U.S. Kids/Operation 36), and back 20-30 years ago, we thought at the time that having kids play the forward tee was the best way to teach them. We obtain new information over time and things change. If nobody ever made a change, we would all live in caves.

 

https://www.ngf.org/news/2016/05/the-changing-face-of-junior-golf/