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Low Handicap - Replace 5i?


Lefty_3Jack
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Lefty,basic club building first...add 3 grams lead tape.Test.Then 2 grams more, now, if you add all 5gr more to the Toe,this may make your brain think,slight fade it in..so max lead to test 8 to 10 grams.I did this with S58 Pings 7 years ago,all over 5 grams more added.Grip,shaft keep as is.You didnt say anything negative re lie angle eg thins,digs, to good there.More total club weight, a 70% easy swing..lite grip vs death grip...test 5 to 10 balls on that green late in the day...then its  hi hybrid time next,try,buy two(the wrx way)to test height,fade,draw,lie angle,smoothness,ezy to adjust.Buy the club Just for This Hole.👍

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7 hours ago, animalgolfs said:

The problem is the miss hit...however slight, miss hitting a 5i when you need a certain yardage to carry - especially water on Par 3s. No shaft change can save that - and I've gone lighter as well on 5i shaft. 

 

It's the slight miss hit & the hybrid will solve that problem & still provide adequate carry.

 

Edit: Also went heavy on the 5 hybrid shaft - 100g low launch / mid spin.  Finding the right 5 hybrid set up isn't easy either.  Once you add headwind- you better have a set up that can play into the wind

Apex Hybrid, from 2016, the original, in 26° (5H) is calling your name! You will thank me later! 

 

PS ... Stick with a 100g shaft, sounds like you can handle, no problem. 

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40 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

It may help, but I wouldn't change clubs till you overcome your thought process about that hole.  It's got you on the run, making poor contact or choosing the wrong club.

 

I don't carry any hybrids, cause I enjoy long irons, but switched to composite awhile back in LW, SW and PW-2 iron.  Two different profile shafts, heavier MMT mid-high bend "s" 125g in LW-5i, and Tensei AV White AM2 High bend "s" 90g, 92g and 94g in 2i, 3i, 4i.  It's made an immense difference for me.

 

Pardon me while I recall 4 great shots yesterday.  Playing a challenging Par 5, totally blind tee shot over thicket and tree covered deep creek ravine, and didn't know exact carry yardage, but decided instead of driver I'd use 2 iron and see...  I smacked it as well as I could, too 'straight'.  When I got over there my ball had flew the fairway landing on the opposite side of the fairway, on an uphill rough area next to OB, above the fairway.  I had a decent lie to used 3i and hit a bullet shot between tree trunks that ended up in the middle of the fairway, a cut 115yd PW into breeze, pin high, made the birdie putt.   Point in sharing, I like recalling all those good shots, but it's an intimidating hole even for par.  My buddy out drove me but didn't score, neither did the other two players.  I finished with a 75.  Good golf is about our frame of mind when we face obstacles. 

What club you're comfortable with is part of your mindset.  If any of us could mind f*** ourselves into thinking confidently about a particular shot we wouldn't be talking about this.  Congrats on the good shots and your enjoyment of long irons.  

In search of solid contact...
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4.2 right now.  Fluctuate between 1.5 and 4.8 over the last 3 years.

Made the change a couple of years ago.  Dropped the 5 for a 26* hybrid (technically a 6 hybrid) to cover the change.  My 6i loft 32*, so weak by today's standards.

I also went with a 7H to replace the 6i so I can carry the 6i distance rather than having it hit and roll out.

I am a low ball hitter and will be replacing shafts this winter, going lighter and softer to a 5 from a 5.5 steel shaft to a recoil, but I am not sure this change will dramatically change the flight of my shots.

What I do like about the hybrid is I don't feel like I have to hit it on the screws to get the carry distance.

I am playing the Mavrik 6H & 7H FWIW.

 

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12 minutes ago, Lefty_3Jack said:

What club you're comfortable with is part of your mindset.  If any of us could mind f*** ourselves into thinking confidently about a particular shot we wouldn't be talking about this.  Congrats on the good shots and your enjoyment of long irons.  

You don't need to mind f... yourself... you need to change your outlook.  I play to a 3-4 right now, and low of 2, so I am talking from experience, nothing more.  Now, if you're looking to commiserate, that's another issue that I have nothing for. 

 

I thought you were a 3-4 index too?  My mistake.  IMO and experience, low cap players shouldn't be struggling with certain clubs.  My views on overcoming obstacles comes from having trained with SOG team members and leadership.  When Paul Azinger was Ryder Cup Captain, he brought in Seal training (basically mental self-control and focus) to team members and won; mind over club and or matter.  You have a better day.

 

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33 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

It may help, but I wouldn't change clubs till you overcome your thought process about that hole.  It's got you on the run, making poor contact or choosing the wrong club.

 

I don't carry any hybrids, cause I enjoy long irons, but switched to composite awhile back in LW, SW and PW-2 iron.  Two different profile shafts, heavier MMT mid-high bend "s" 125g in LW-5i, and Tensei AV White AM2 High bend "s" 90g, 92g and 94g in 2i, 3i, 4i.  It's made an immense difference for me.

 

Pardon me while I recall 4 great shots yesterday.  Playing a challenging Par 5, totally blind tee shot over thicket and tree covered deep creek ravine, and didn't know exact carry yardage, but decided instead of driver I'd use 2 iron and see...  I smacked it as well as I could, too 'straight'.  When I got over there my ball had flew the fairway landing on the opposite side of the fairway, on an uphill rough area next to OB, above the fairway.  I had a decent lie to used 3i and hit a bullet shot between tree trunks that ended up in the middle of the fairway, a cut 115yd PW into breeze, pin high, made the birdie putt.   Point in sharing, I like recalling all those good shots, but it's an intimidating hole even for par.  My buddy out drove me but didn't score, neither did the other two players.  I finished with a 75.  Good golf is about our frame of mind when we face obstacles. 

 

Pepperturbo may be on the right track with you here -- sounds like it's a big mental block more than anything.  What happens the first time you mishit your new hybrid?  Second-guessing whether you have the right head, or right shaft?

 

I've got a similar situation with a course near me that I've played quite a bit.  #16, Par 3, with a stream forming a "U" around the entire front half of the green.  About a 6-iron to the middle for me, and it's a huge green, easy to hit, but the damn thing always eats my lunch.  Last time out, I decided to try something different.  Still pulled my 6 iron, but I focused on a huge tree about 40 yards behind the green.  Told myself I was just going to launch it into the top branches of that tree, and proceeded to hit a smooth, solid shot that went dead straight, plopped right in the middle of the green.

 

Somehow, focusing on that tree got me to forget about the green, and I just swung right through the ball instead of trying to steer it onto the green. 

 

With the entire internet at your fingertips, I'm sure there must be instructors out there with suggestions on how to overcome that mental block -- maybe find one or two ideas that make sense to you and give them a shot, rather than trying to chase an equipment solution.

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9 minutes ago, darkhelmet said:

 

Pepperturbo may be on the right track with you here -- sounds like it's a big mental block more than anything.  What happens the first time you mishit your new hybrid?  Second-guessing whether you have the right head, or right shaft?

 

 

I still get over the water and I take a double or worse out of play say 8 of 10 times.  With the 5i it's probably a 5-6 of 10 proposition.  For any game theory fans out there, that's a play you'd make every time and live with the results.    

In search of solid contact...
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19 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

You don't need to mind f... yourself... you need to change your outlook.  I play to a 3-4 right now, and low of 2, so I am talking from experience, nothing more.  Now, if you're looking to commiserate, that's another issue that I have nothing for. 

 

I thought you were a 3-4 index too?  My mistake.  IMO and experience, low cap players shouldn't be struggling with certain clubs.  My views on overcoming obstacles comes from having trained with SOG team members and leadership.  When Paul Azinger was Ryder Cup Captain, he brought in Seal training (basically mental self-control and focus) to team members and won; mind over club and or matter.  You have a better day.

 

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/kod/michelle-wie-using-callaway-9-11-woods 

 

Someone posted this early.  I'd guess she's solidly a + handicap and I know she's a major winner because I watched her on TV when she won.  She's pretty good, by any of our standards.  She's not hitting those 9/11 woods because it's cool, only because she hits them better than a long iron.  I don't think she has an outlook problem, it's quite the opposite.  Her outlook is to do what best helps her shoot the lowest score today.  We all have a club (or multiple) that can cause us shots, don't fool yourself.  

 

Obee on here is a + and I think he carries a hybrid all the way up to a 7i or something like that.  Can he hit a 4i as a + handicap? I have no doubt and I've asked him.  Would he struggle to hit a 195 yd carry over water with a long iron late in the round to a perpendicular green?  Probably enough that he thinks the hybrid is the play.  

 

I'm 38 with two kids.  I get to play twice a week because I live on the course.  If I was 20 min away and I couldn't get done in 3.5 hours first thing in the morning, I wouldn't get to play at all.  I'm not looking to score a mental win and tell my buddies at crossfit about it.  I'm trying to turn an 80 on a 140+ slope course into a 78 or even a 76 by removing a doubles and triples.  If you look at your scorecard at the end of the day and you hit 12 greens with no 3 putts and you had doubles and/or triples in there.  I just want to turn those into bogeys and have shots at par with them.  If I do that, I'm taking that 80 on a tough course and getting into the 70s.

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1 minute ago, Lefty_3Jack said:

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/kod/michelle-wie-using-callaway-9-11-woods 

 

Someone posted this early.  I'd guess she's solidly a + handicap and I know she's a major winner because I watched her on TV when she won.  She's pretty good, by any of our standards.  She's not hitting those 9/11 woods because it's cool, only because she hits them better than a long iron.  I don't think she has an outlook problem, it's quite the opposite.  Her outlook is to do what best helps her shoot the lowest score today.  We all have a club (or multiple) that can cause us shots, don't fool yourself.  

 

Obee on here is a + and I think he carries a hybrid all the way up to a 7i or something like that.  Can he hit a 4i as a + handicap? I have no doubt and I've asked him.  Would he struggle to hit a 195 yd carry over water with a long iron late in the round to a perpendicular green?  Probably enough that he thinks the hybrid is the play.  

 

I'm 38 with two kids.  I get to play twice a week because I live on the course.  If I was 20 min away and I couldn't get done in 3.5 hours first thing in the morning, I wouldn't get to play at all.  I'm not looking to score a mental win and tell my buddies at crossfit about it.  I'm trying to turn an 80 on a 140+ slope course into a 78 or even a 76 by removing a doubles and triples.  If you look at your scorecard at the end of the day and you hit 12 greens with no 3 putts and you had doubles and/or triples in there.  I just want to turn those into bogeys and have shots at par with them.  If I do that, I'm taking that 80 on a tough course and getting into the 70s.

I responded to your post.  You said - (have three holes that require me to hit 190yd + carry shots over water and they’re all late in the round. It f*#%s with my head way too much. Twice in the last week I’ve opted to hit a 4hy and flew the green both times. One of those times I ended up making a triple.) (but when it matters, a little mishit costs me) you said, (Should I replace it with a hybrid or a fatter 5i, maybe with a graphite shaft?)

 

My post intent addressed a mindset over a club and hole; a mental block that forces someone to hit a poor shot or excessively long shot, taking a triple, yet you're a 3.5-5 index, same as me, but I am twice your age.  I addressed a hole and or club that psychs someone out, that's all.  I would never look at a club to fix a psyche.  Using what tour people do as an argument has no bearing either because we don't know WHY any given tour player makes an equipment change.  Most people switch to hybrids for elevation and or distance.

 

I said NOTHING regarding a choice in clubs, nor have I ever criticized anyone for carrying a hybrid, least of all people that can't hit long irons or pros that have to bring the ball in high on long par 3's.  When in TX I play with a retired LPGA touring pro, she has a bag full of hybrids and woods, and PW-7i, yet she's effective with all irons and gives me a run for the bet.

 

As far as Obee and his game is concerned; nothing wrong with his equipment choices.  Heck, if I recall, he doesn't have anything over 6i in his bag, and he's a damn good amateur stick, still.

 

I face a 225-230yd uphill Par 3, over a huge pond, 185yds just to cover the pond from black tees.  When I am standing on the tee, 4wd is too much, and I KNOW, my 3i is good to the edge, but will go backwards into the pond.  My only option is MUST pure 2 iron or my ball will hit the slope fronting of the green and run back down into the pond, leaving me hitting 3 from the tee or drop zone.  No allowance for shot error.  My point it's a must or else.  I could let that eat at me or face it as an obstacle and overcome. 

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As another poster said you didn't ask a hypothetical and you've largely already answered your own question.  If you have specific shots that require the 5i and you're already not pulling the club and getting yourself in trouble either way then unless you're going to improve that part of your game somehow then yes, replace that club.  ZX5 are already pretty forgiving but you could look for an even more forgiving, stronger 5i so that a mishit still carries a number you want (bringing in a long miss when you flush it); learn to take something off the 4hy (maybe with a cut or something) or just go find a 5hy to try.

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You could practice the 5 iron? 

 

I am about the same cap as you and had similar issue with my 4iron and a hole at my course that it needed be hit very well to by successful at. One day I went out and just hit 4 irons for 15 holes as much as I could. Every tee expect the short par 3 I hit 4 iron. If I had more than 180 in I hit 4 iron. I was not trying to shoot a score, but trying to hit 4 irons out on the course. Hitting at the range is different (you don't have a 5min walk between shots for instance). After that round I left feeling great about the club and it carried over into my play for months.

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If it's a shot that comes up often enough (e.g. it's a par 3 at your home club so you see it every round), it's probably worth trying to solve. 

 

If you don't have the requisite confidence in the 5i, why not give the alternatives a try?  Whether it's a hybrid or a lofted fairway?   What do you have to lose?  If you don't like the results you WRX it and move on to the next option.

 

I talked a playing partner into putting a 7w in the bag recently, he was fighting it but after seeing what it could do in a simulator he gave in and that thing has been money for him.  It took seeing the results for him to let go of the idea that he "needed" to hit a 3 or 4 iron.  I held on to my long irons longer than I should have so it was easy to speak from personal experience.

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4 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

You don't need to mind f... yourself... you need to change your outlook.  I play to a 3-4 right now, and low of 2, so I am talking from experience, nothing more.  Now, if you're looking to commiserate, that's another issue that I have nothing for. 

 

I thought you were a 3-4 index too?  My mistake.  IMO and experience, low cap players shouldn't be struggling with certain clubs.  My views on overcoming obstacles comes from having trained with SOG team members and leadership.  When Paul Azinger was Ryder Cup Captain, he brought in Seal training (basically mental self-control and focus) to team members and won; mind over club and or matter.  You have a better day.

 

3-4 index without enough speed will absolutely struggle with certain clubs.  I’m a 3.4 right now but I swing the driver 100ish mph and imho that is just not fast enough to get good gapping with a 4 iron.  A 5 iron is different but still the same concept.  

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17 hours ago, Lefty_3Jack said:

Currently a 3.6, go between a 2.5 and a 5.5. Our two home courses have three holes that require me to hit 190yd + carry shots over water and they’re all late in the round. It f*#%s with my head way too much. Twice in the last week I’ve opted to hit a 4hy and flew the green both times. One of those times I ended up making a triple.

 

I go out and hit my 5i on these holes alone and have watched myself have success, but when it matters, a little mishit costs me. 
 

I feel so much more comfortable with a hybrid in my hand with that forced carry staring me in the face. The problem is, I’m normally pulling a club I’m going to hit long. If I had a hybrid replacement for my 5i I could have the safety net of the forgiving club, but with loft I can manage for those shots.

 

Should I replace it with a hybrid or a fatter 5i, maybe with a graphite shaft? Currently playing Srixon 565 irons which are pretty forgiving.

 

This sounds very familiar to a hole on my home course that gives me problems. It has a forced carry of about the same distance(195) but it's over a large tree as the tee is elevated. Nonetheless, the tree is higher than the tee hence it looks ominous. My normal club of choice had been a hybrid or a 4 iron. Normally I hit it ok on the range but on this hole I hit it thin, push it or snap hook it everytime.

 

Finally, I decided to try a 7 wood even though I have never been good with fairway woods and on my first or second attempt I knocked it right down the center. I swung a little too hard in anticipation of hitting it bad and knocked it a little farther than I'd like to but it stopped quickly enough.

 

I would opt with something a little more forgiving than what you have now and maybe go graphite +1/2" (85-100g) as well for a little extra distance in order to be on the back of the green at most for a good swing.

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I suggest you try one of these.... size that is very easy it make solid contact, super soft feel, and plenty long compared to the set 4/5 irons.

 

https://www.taylormadegolf.com/SIM-DHY/DW-TA158.html?lang=en_US

 

 

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18 hours ago, jomatty said:

3-4 index without enough speed will absolutely struggle with certain clubs.  I’m a 3.4 right now but I swing the driver 100ish mph and imho that is just not fast enough to get good gapping with a 4 iron.  A 5 iron is different but still the same concept.  

Appreciate your perspective. 

 

I am 70yrs old and assure you, my SS of irons or woods is NOT high, but I use the sweet spot and hit them solidly.  My 620 MB irons have traditional lofts too, 27' 5i 170+ club, 24' 4i 178-180+, 3i is 190+ yds and 17' 2i is 200-220+, depending on conditions.  Not sure how long I will keep that up.  Anyway, Driver is 240++ carry.  If at my age, with older lofts, I maintain those yardages, most people can get there with hard work. 

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Yeah, I mean you could get a 5H. Or like others have said, get 22* 4H, which is a great 190-210 club (depending on your clubhead speed). On the long par-3s you play, just grip down an inch or wo. Which I often do, especially if it's 180 with a bit of wind. Gripping down will also flight the ball lower naturally.

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1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Appreciate your perspective. 

 

I am 70yrs old and assure you, my SS of irons or woods is NOT high, but I use the sweet spot and hit them solidly.  My 620 MB irons have traditional lofts too, 27' 5i 170+ club, 24' 4i 178-180+, 3i is 190+ yds and 17' 2i is 200-220+, depending on conditions.  Not sure how long I will keep that up.  Anyway, Driver is 240++ carry.  If at my age, with older lofts, I maintain those yardages, most people can get there with hard work. 

And I don’t know what the original poster is playing but more than likely he’s playing more modern lofts.  This makes bad five iron a lot harder to hit. His six iron probably has the same loss as your five iron.  So it’s probably easier for you to maintain gapping with your clubs than it may be for him.  For what it’s worth I’m not trying to argue just talking through it really. As a three handicap that dropped my five iron at 43 years of age it’s a topic I think about a fair amount.  
that’s definitely impressive that you can still hit the long irons at your age. Hopefully I’ll still be able to get it around the course with some distance at your age.

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I play a 27* loft 5 iron as my longest club.

 

I replaced my 24* 4 iron with a 25* hybrid and it is very confidence inspiring.

Variable face thickness, good off-center hit forgiveness.

 

If the 4 hybrid is money for you, buy the 5 hybrid of the same model?

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10 minutes ago, jomatty said:

And I don’t know what the original poster is playing but more than likely he’s playing more modern lofts.  This makes bad five iron a lot harder to hit. His six iron probably has the same loss as your five iron.  So it’s probably easier for you to maintain gapping with your clubs than it may be for him.  For what it’s worth I’m not trying to argue just talking through it really. As a three handicap that dropped my five iron at 43 years of age it’s a topic I think about a fair amount.  
that’s definitely impressive that you can still hit the long irons at your age. Hopefully I’ll still be able to get it around the course with some distance at your age.

No problem. 

 

WOW, you dropped 5i at 43... What's in its place?   It doesn't surprise me that it kinda weighs on the mind.  I have to work at it and not sure how long I can keep it up.  Only have one friend, close in age, that is in great shape like me, the rest are out of shape or dealing with some physical limitation, so golf plays a secondary role.

 

Not only that, but I see your point regarding stronger lofts as opposed to my weaker lofts.  Not sure exactly why I still hit long irons well.  What I hear from friends that are good golfers is my swing appears compact, easy and powerful.  I have a theory, not sure if it makes any sense though.  My height at 5'10 with arm length, and choke down of 1", combined with physique and core strength are behind my ability to hit the ball.   And, I still do 120 stomach crunches with 80lbs on my chest every other day.

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1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

No problem. 

 

WOW, you dropped 5i at 43... What's in its place?   It doesn't surprise me that it kinda weighs on the mind.  I have to work at it and not sure how long I can keep it up.  Only have one friend, close in age, that is in great shape like me, the rest are out of shape or dealing with some physical limitation, so golf plays a secondary role.

 

Not only that, but I see your point regarding stronger lofts as opposed to my weaker lofts.  Not sure exactly why I still hit long irons well.  What I hear from friends that are good golfers is my swing appears compact, easy and powerful.  I have a theory, not sure if it makes any sense though.  My height at 5'10 with arm length, and choke down of 1", combined with physique and core strength are behind my ability to hit the ball.   And, I still do 120 stomach crunches with 80lbs on my chest every other day.

I added a Mizuno clk 5 hybrid. I can still hit a 5 iron and gap it fine (not the case with a modern lofted 4 iron which doesn’t carry much further than a well struck 5 iron), but it just is not as consistent. I just get more consistent yardage with the hybrid.  I suppose I give up a little bit of workability but it is a good trade off.  When I’m 200 yards out it is a rare circumstance that I’m trying to do much more than hit it to the center of the green and I do that more consistently with the hybrid.  Most of the reasons I think about if I should go back to the 5 iron are ego based so I try not to dwell on them.

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Mark Crossfield posted a video and has a big section near the end that discusses situations like this at the end of the video 

.

 

My personal thoughts is use what makes your life easier. If I play a shorter tighter course I often play a driving iron instead of my 3 hybrid just because I would use it more.

 

I took out the 4 iron this year even though I could hit it fine just I ended up with alot of 200-230 shots many with all carry, the 4 hybrid just flies higher and is easier to hit. It's versatile and can it's consistent compared to my 4 iron. 

Ping 425 max 9* set to 8* flat Tensei CK orange X

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6 minutes ago, jomatty said:

I added a Mizuno clk 5 hybrid. I can still hit a 5 iron and gap it fine (not the case with a modern lofted 4 iron which doesn’t carry much further than a well struck 5 iron), but it just is not as consistent. I just get more consistent yardage with the hybrid.  I suppose I give up a little bit of workability but it is a good trade off.  When I’m 200 yards out it is a rare circumstance that I’m trying to do much more than hit it to the center of the green and I do that more consistently with the hybrid.  Most of the reasons I think about if I should go back to the 5 iron are ego based so I try not to dwell on them.

I understand. 

 

One buddy, his longest iron is 5i, the other is 4i, another has three hybrids and longest club, I think, is 6i.  Sometimes my britches get the best of me and I like to curve the ball in, but I try to keep that to a purposeful minimum. 

 

Last week on a 158 yr Par 3 into a breeze, I hit a really pretty baby draw 6i around a pond, into a mid placed pin.  Got cheers for it.  I like golf cause I get good feedback for good shots or no feedback for a stinky shot.  It's about satisfaction that comes from smacking a good long iron shot...can't explain it. 

 

There is NO good or bad equipment choices.  It's all about how well each of us uses our chosen tools.  You have a good day.

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I switched from a 24° hybrid to a hollow 5 iron with a graphite shaft (Cobra forged tec 2020) and it made a world of difference. Hybrid was ballooning up into the wind, while the iron has a controlled flight and is just as forgiving. I absolutely love that thing, just wish I had more opportunities to hit it!

 

*currently playing to a 4.1 fwiw

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