Brooks v Bryson in a 12 hole match in Vegas 11/26

[tw_focus]

9 hours ago, grm24 said:

So it appears the actual final score of the match was 5&3. BDC conceded the 9th hole to Brooks after he missed his own birdie putt. Brooks still had a birdie putt. So 5&3 it is.

 

BDC conceded the putt because BK needed two putts to halve the hole and win the match. But I'd say BK's putt was 50/50 or worse to actually go in (especially if he's playing for two-putt to win the match, any 30 handicapper can two putt that). So the match goes down 5&3 in the record books, but it's more like 4.5&3. Considering it was a 12 hole match, that's a historic beatdown.

[RobotDoctor]

2 hours ago, tw_focus said:

 

BDC conceded the putt because BK needed two putts to halve the hole and win the match. But I'd say BK's putt was 50/50 or worse to actually go in (especially if he's playing for two-putt to win the match, any 30 handicapper can two putt that). So the match goes down 5&3 in the record books, but it's more like 4.5&3. Considering it was a 12 hole match, that's a historic beatdown.

The score was 5-3.  A concession is a concession whether or not a putt could feasibly be made.  Yes, a significant beat down for sure.  Just proves that prodigiously long drives, while look great and makes many go crazy, won't overcome mediocre iron approaches and putting.  The old saying "Drive for show, putt for dough" was clearly evident in this match.  I didn't watch it but saw highlights of it.  Keopka putted well, DeChambeau did not.  End of story.

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by RobotDoctor
correct spelling errors

[TiScape]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

 

Ya think?

 

New vid of BD hitting balls with fans. Racking more views and fan appreciation than the match itself ; )

 

 

 

 

 Driving the ball at 200+ mph is is a great spectacle, but if your not putting your next shot as close or closer than the player that drives his ball at 185 mph… It’s not an advantage anywhere but on social media 🤷🏼‍♂️

[RobotDoctor]

9 minutes ago, TiScape said:

 Driving the ball at 200+ mph is is a great spectacle, but if your not putting your next shot as close or closer than the player that drives his ball at 185 mph… It’s not an advantage anywhere but on social media 🤷🏼‍♂️

Far too many people are infatuated with driving prodigious distances.  Happy Gilmore and Top Golf have become what many strive for.  The quickest way to get a player your playing against to collapse is to hit the ball shorter, hit longer irons shots into the green, hit them as close or closer to the pin than your long hitting playing partner, and make putts.  I always accepted this scenario when I was a long hitter and expected it from my shorter hitting playing partners.  Now that I am a shorter hitter compared to some people I play with, and most certainly most of those who are here on GolfWRX, it doesn't bother me when people out drive me in terms of distance because if I hit a good iron approach shot inside my playing partner's shot it was only a matter of a few holes before they are done.  I relish the opportunity to watch playing partners implode.  What a great feeling to see that!  😁  Of course that is only in competitive rounds.  On casual rounds it is more important to have fun and enjoy the company you're with.

[Soloman1]

As old as the hills in match play...

 

"Wow, you hit the ball sooo far. That's amazing."

 

"Wow, you did it again. Man, that is something to watch."

 

"How far can you hit it when you really go after it?"

 

"Great drive! You want another press?"

[bscinstnct]

25 minutes ago, TiScape said:

 Driving the ball at 200+ mph is is a great spectacle, but if your not putting your next shot as close or closer than the player that drives his ball at 185 mph… It’s not an advantage anywhere but on social media 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

TiS! This match was pretty much a social media extravaganza vs an actual event.

 

But before we say BD is all show and no dough.

 

He has 8 PGA Tour wins. Same as BK. BK has 4 majors. BD has one. But BK is 31 and BD is 28. 

 

Also, BK is falling down the rankings and now sits down below Spieth. And Louis Oost, huh?

 

Yeah, so I see why this was a meaningful thing for BK ; )

 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by bscinstnct

[TiScape]

One still has to think Bryson would improve if he puts a wedge in his hands after a 365 yard drive that is the length of a traditional wedge, not a 6i. 

[TiScape]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

TiS! This match was pretty much a social media extravaganza vs an actual event.

 

But before we say BD is all show and no dough.

 

He has 8 PGA Tour wins. Same as BK. BK has 4 majors. BD has one. But BK is 31 and BD is 28. 

 

Also, BK is falling down the rankings and now sits down below Spieth. And Louis Oost, huh?

 

Yeah, so I see why this was a meaningful thing for BK ; )

 

 

Well I know I never said he was all show no dough. I simply pointed out that a 400 yard drive isn’t an advantage if your approach is outside the guy that drove it 315.

Edited November 28, 2021 by TiScape

[bscinstnct]

17 minutes ago, TiScape said:

One still has to think Bryson would improve if he puts a wedge in his hands after a 365 yard drive that is the length of a traditional wedge, not a 6i. 

 

Yeah, I posted a stat. His wedges, especially greenside are a huge hole in his game. 
 

Interestingly, the variance between SG gains/lost greenside is important but nowhere near as big as SG off the tee.
 

A great wedge player picks up 2 shots over 4 days. A big driver picks up 4 shots over 4 days.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by bscinstnct

[TiScape]

5 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yeah, I posted a stat. His wedges, especially greenside are a huge hole in his game. 
 

Interestingly, the variance between SG gains/lost greenside is nowhere near as big as SG off the tee.
 

A great wedge player picks up one shot over 4 days. A big driver picks up 4 shots over 4 days.

 

 

So Bryson adds great wedge player to big driver and boom! Like I said. I’ve always been told and thought, the shorter the club, the more control. Maybe I’m just over simplifying it 😊

[TiScape]

I’ve watched Bryson play many rounds. Without looking up any stats. I can safely say he doesn’t take advantage of his huge drives. Typically he is 30+ yards closer than his competitors, but rarely hits his approach’s closer than them. His putting is typically strong. So yes, definitely the wedges are his “hole”. I feel like I’m just repeating what’s already been covered! 😜😂 Oh well. 

[RobotDoctor]

4 minutes ago, TiScape said:

I’ve watched Bryson play many rounds. Without looking up any stats. I can safely say he doesn’t take advantage of his huge drives. Typically he is 30+ yards closer than his competitors, but rarely hits his approach’s closer than them. His putting is typically strong. So yes, definitely the wedges are his “hole”. I feel like I’m just repeating what’s already been covered! 😜😂 Oh well. 

 

If wedges are his weakness then he should have and advantage taking one club less than driver, 1 iron/2 iron, and approach with an 8 or 9 iron.  Course management would go a long way with DeChambeau.  He's a US Open champion, an 8 time PGA Tour winner, a US Amateur champion.  DeChambeau has game and will be a force to contend with for many years.  Just leave the cupcakes in the hospitality tent instead of bringing them on the first tee.

[bscinstnct]

6 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:

 

If wedges are his weakness then he should have and advantage taking one club less than driver, 1 iron/2 iron, and approach with an 8 or 9 iron.  Course management would go a long way with DeChambeau.  He's a US Open champion, an 8 time PGA Tour winner, a US Amateur champion.  DeChambeau has game and will be a force to contend with for many years.  Just leave the cupcakes in the hospitality tent instead of bringing them on the first tee.

 

Yeah, the cupcakes were stupid.

 

He should have tossed a thong underwear on the ground next to BKs ball on the first tee and been like,

 

“Here, the hotel maid said you forgot these in your room.”

 

See, now BK would have totally cracked up at that 

 

🤣

[Nard_S]

When your wedge is the length of a #6i and your infatuated with your 200 yard #8i and wonder why wedge play stinks, the problem is between the ears. BK has 4 majors has number of 2nd's and top 10's scattered throughout and Bryson is more respected here. SMTH. Loved watching BD get his clock cleaned.

[TiScape]

Just now, RobotDoctor said:

 

If wedges are his weakness then he should have and advantage taking one club less than driver, 1 iron/2 iron, and approach with an 8 or 9 iron.  Course management would go a long way with DeChambeau.  He's a US Open champion, an 8 time PGA Tour winner, a US Amateur champion.  DeChambeau has game and will be a force to contend with for many years.  Just leave the cupcakes in the hospitality tent instead of bringing them on the first tee.

If he doesn’t hit driver, he won’t get as many views/likes though! 😂 And like I said, I didn’t look up any stats. Typically he has wedge in. So I say his wedge is the problem. If he had 8/9 iron in, would he be any better/closer??? I don’t know, but I’d guess no. So more likely than not, it’s his approaches with short irons that aren’t helping him take advantage of his big drives. Again, all his irons 6 and lower are 6i length. IMO the short irons are more accurate to an extent because of the shorter club length. (Obviously launch/loft is there as well) Just my thought/opinions. I did a fast Google and found this. ⬇️

[tacklingdummy]

22 minutes ago, TiScape said:

I’ve watched Bryson play many rounds. Without looking up any stats. I can safely say he doesn’t take advantage of his huge drives. Typically he is 30+ yards closer than his competitors, but rarely hits his approach’s closer than them. His putting is typically strong. So yes, definitely the wedges are his “hole”. I feel like I’m just repeating what’s already been covered! 😜😂 Oh well. 

 

 

I think his wedges are good when he is in play because he is ranked 3rd in birdies per round. However, he is ranked 178th in driving accuracy and 63rd in GIR. The holes he is in the fairway his is converting well, but the holes he is out of play is probably weighing down his wedge stats. 

[bscinstnct]

24 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

 

I think his wedges are good when he is in play because he is ranked 3rd in birdies per round. However, he is ranked 178th in driving accuracy and 63rd in GIR. The holes he is in the fairway his is converting well, but the holes he is out of play is probably weighing down his wedge stats. 

 

His approach shots, including non-greenside (30 yards and farther) were poor last year as measured by the exact same shots hit by him vs other pros from the *fairway. That’s how SG works. 

 

Meaning, BD hits the same distance  iron/wedge from the fairway much worse than the better guys.

 

But, it may be the case that given his length off the tee, he is hitting much more 50-100 yard wedges than other players. So, even though he’s bad from 100 yards, he’s as good/close as the guy who’s hitting an approach on the same hole from 130 yards. If that makes sense. 
 

But he gains a full stroke every round on the field off the tee. And another half stroke putting. So even with bad short game he has been gaining 4-6 strokes per event on the field the past 3 years. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by bscinstnct

[miamistomp]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

TiS! This match was pretty much a social media extravaganza vs an actual event.

 

But before we say BD is all show and no dough.

 

He has 8 PGA Tour wins. Same as BK. BK has 4 majors. BD has one. But BK is 31 and BD is 28. 

 

Also, BK is falling down the rankings and now sits down below Spieth. And Louis Oost, huh?

 

Yeah, so I see why this was a meaningful thing for BK ; )

 

 

 Bryson is also a whole lot healthier than Brooks

   Over 4 days , I doubt BK beats Bryson

[drbonesvt]

Who would play blades better ???

 

insert sarcasm 

[miamistomp]

52 minutes ago, drbonesvt said:

Who would play blades better ???

 

insert sarcasm 

he would

 

[TiScape]

1 hour ago, drbonesvt said:

Who would play blades better???

 

insert sarcasm 

A 4 hcp WRX’er! 😜

[bscinstnct]

37 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

he would

 

 

WS!

 

We goin sizzler 🤣

 

 

[RobotDoctor]

4 hours ago, TiScape said:

If he doesn’t hit driver, he won’t get as many views/likes though! 😂 And like I said, I didn’t look up any stats. Typically he has wedge in. So I say his wedge is the problem. If he had 8/9 iron in, would he be any better/closer??? I don’t know, but I’d guess no. So more likely than not, it’s his approaches with short irons that aren’t helping him take advantage of his big drives. Again, all his irons 6 and lower are 6i length. IMO the short irons are more accurate to an extent because of the shorter club length. (Obviously launch/loft is there as well) Just my thought/opinions. I did a fast Google and found this. ⬇️

It would depend whether an 8 or 9 iron are clubs he’s more confident with.  Great strategic players hit to a yardage where an approach shot is made with a club the golfer has the utmost confidence with.  To preface my next comment let it be known that I’m not on the same talent level as Bryson DeChambeau, not even in the same golfing universe.  That said, I’m more confident with my 8 and 9 irons than my PW or GW.  I’m more accurate with them and will play to yardages that utilize those irons when possible.  That said I’m more confident with my LW from 85 yards in compared to a 130 yard to 155 yard shot with my 9 and 8 irons.  Everyone of us has certain clubs we can rely on time and time again.  Sometimes a shorter iron isn’t the answer. If a longer iron is one a golfer has more confidence in then they should use that.  At the end of the day it is about getting the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible.  

[milesgiles]

On 11/28/2021 at 3:22 AM, tw_focus said:

Good event overall and the easiest $1400 I ever made, probably. BDC came to crack jokes and bake cupcakes, BK came focused and ready to play. For all the trigonometry, percentages, distances, measurements, calculus, BDC still couldn't hit a putt. Chuck called him out and BDC got angry, that's telling. Chuck read the putt better than you did BDC, time to man up and face the facts.

 

Hope to never see BDC again on The Match. BK is the defending champion, maybe BK + TW vs Phil + CM would be a good matchup next year. Or mix it up with the celebrity amateurs. I want to see the improvements Chuck has made to his swing, and Phil + Chuck team is fun to watch.

 

no one will give BK any money to play another of these matches because no one will watch.

 

Its silly season. WWE stuff. Bryson is perfect for it, no one is 'neutral' in their opinion of him. 

[hammersia]

On 11/27/2021 at 7:21 PM, RobotDoctor said:

The need for higher ball speed isn't golf.  It's more like Top Golf.  Golf is a game of strategy, good shot making based on the course design and conditions.  I'll take golf shot making over bomb and gouge any day that ends with a "Y".  Those who think hitting 400 yard drives and a 9 iron or wedge out of rough is both fun and exciting are definitely watching another game than what I am used to.  I'd much rather see a player hitting a very clutch shot on the final hole of a US Open that's not a wedge and pulling it off to win the US Open any time.  
 

 

This shot was more exciting than watching BDC hitting inaccurate 400 yard drives and gouging a wedge to 30 feet.  

 

I've been saying it for years, and Pavin's shot is probably my favourite as well. TV golf is getting teeth grindingly awful to watch, but the ship sailed long ago when the R+A and USGA allowed daft equipment in.

 

(Yes I know Pavin was using VAS irons.)

[RobotDoctor]

28 minutes ago, hammersia said:

 

I've been saying it for years, and Pavin's shot is probably my favourite as well. TV golf is getting teeth grindingly awful to watch, but the ship sailed long ago when the R+A and USGA allowed daft equipment in.

 

(Yes I know Pavin was using VAS irons.)

Maybe Pavin using the VAS irons just prove how great of a ball striker he was. It's not easy playing top level golf with shovels.  😁

[hammersia]

18 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:

Maybe Pavin using the VAS irons just prove how great of a ball striker he was. It's not easy playing top level golf with shovels.  😁

Although apparently they were modified to a more conventional shape with a squarer toe and leading edge for him. 

[tacklingdummy]

18 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

His approach shots, including non-greenside (30 yards and farther) were poor last year as measured by the exact same shots hit by him vs other pros from the *fairway. That’s how SG works. 

 

Meaning, BD hits the same distance  iron/wedge from the fairway much worse than the better guys.

 

But, it may be the case that given his length off the tee, he is hitting much more 50-100 yard wedges than other players. So, even though he’s bad from 100 yards, he’s as good/close as the guy who’s hitting an approach on the same hole from 130 yards. If that makes sense. 
 

But he gains a full stroke every round on the field off the tee. And another half stroke putting. So even with bad short game he has been gaining 4-6 strokes per event on the field the past 3 years. 

 

Strokes gained approach shots include all approach shots from fairway and non-fairway. His ranking on SG approach shots is #53 which is not bad. However, I did look up his states for wedge shots 50-75yards and 75-100yards in the fairway and yeah his ranking is very poor. #191 and #174. 

[mosesgolf]

Corey Pavin, Mike Weir, Tom Kite, Ben Crenshaw had long successful careers hitting it short but wedging and putting wonderfully.   BD drives are amazing at 200+mph but Brooks won it with superb iron shots and putting. 

[cavemeister]

     Did you watch how Bryson was trying to add lightheartedness to the match by smiling and giving away cupcakes. If you watched Brooks, he wasn't having it, he maintained his killer instinct or his "density of neural drive."  As Stuart McGill says, "smiling breaks your neural drive or density..."

    Obviously, the great ones like Tiger, can put on a smile(maybe not a full bodied smile)

while maintaining neural density of drive. As Brooks said, for him this was a major...and demanded a major state of mind.

Here is a link to neural drive a discussion of neural density and drive.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by cavemeister