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Program 130 shaft build


golf1010
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There are parallel blanks.  You tip trim them for flex and then butt trim for playing length.

 

THere are some threads about them.

 

Tough to get swingweight in the D range as they come out light.

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Since you would be starting with the same "blank" and building to different lengths, these would be called a descending weight set of iron shafts, because the shaft weight for each club is directly proportional to its length.

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you can just ratio the cut length of the shaft to the blank weight

 

assuming a bottom bore to ground of 1.25" on your irons

 

For a 36" pitching wedge, that would be a 34.75" cut shaft length (-1/8" for grip cap).

 

So 34.75/40 * 130 (don't know exact weight) = 113 g

 

If 125 g is your minimum

 

125 * (40/130) = roughly 38.5" to get 125 g, so your shortest length iron at 125 g is 39.75".

 

Not going to work.

 

5 iron is 38" standard - 1.25 = 36.25 * (130/40) = 117.8 g

Edited by geochitown
added weight of cut shaft for 5 iron

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13 hours ago, golf1010 said:

What would be my lightest shaft weight approx in pw ?  Vs heavier in 5 iron? 
I need a 125 gram weight or it won’t work for me… 

 

This doesn't necessarily have to work this way.  They will invariably come out a bit lighter in the PW and heavier in the 5 but you can fix this a bit by weighing all of the shafts before installation and then putting the lightest of the shaft in the 5i and heaviest in the PW.  Let's pretend Matrix has a +/- 2g tolerance and you have the lightest shaft at 128g and the heaviest at 132 and two shafts are identical.  Further, you can look at the shaft drawing to see where most of the weight is positioned in the shaft when cutting so you can better tune this.  For now, let's assume the weight is exactly uniform at 3.25g/inch.

Then you would have something that looks like this before trimming:

5i = 128g

6i = 129g

7i = 130g

8i = 130g

9i = 131g

Pw = 132g

 

This will help a bit with feel and balancing out the swingweight and total weight of the build.

Edited by WristySwing
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4 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

This doesn't necessarily have to work this way.  They will invariably come out a bit lighter in the PW and heavier in the 5 but you can fix this a bit by weighing all of the shafts before installation and then putting the lightest of the shaft in the 5i and heaviest in the PW.  Let's pretend Matrix has a +/- 2g tolerance and you have the lightest shaft at 128g and the heaviest at 132 and two shafts are identical.  Further, you can look at the shaft drawing to see where most of the weight is positioned in the shaft when cutting so you can better tune this.  For now, let's assume the weight is exactly uniform at 3.25g/inch.

Then you would have something that looks like this before trimming:

5i = 128g

6i = 129g

7i = 130g

8i = 130g

9i = 131g

Pw = 132g

 

This will help a bit with feel and balancing out the swingweight and total weight of the build.

 

good point on weight sorting

 

he'd have to compromise on shaft weight by going substantially lighter than his desired target, though.

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47 minutes ago, geochitown said:

 

good point on weight sorting

 

he'd have to compromise on shaft weight by going substantially lighter than his desired target, though.

 

Going to be tough to find anything parallel tip that is going to be heavy enough.  OP would have to go to constant weight more than likely.  Even then might not hit that specific weight target.

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I guess I should measure the ones I have downstairs.

 

The uncut Program 130's I have in 5.5 flex measure 40" long and 117g.

I have 4 shafts (3 weigh 117g, and 1 weighs 118g).

 

 

 

 

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Edited by geochitown
added photos
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From the man himself: Awalkspoiled

 

 

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TEE  XCG7B  5h  25* Diamana Thump i465ct 4iron shaft
Wishon 560MC 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) DG120 S300
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56/60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
2013-2016 SC Futura X5R 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0

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20 hours ago, golf1010 said:

What would be my lightest shaft weight approx in pw ?  Vs heavier in 5 iron? 
I need a 125 gram weight or it won’t work for me… 


Are you talking NET cut weight? Then you can forget ALL descending weight models on the market, it will be a problem to find constant wgt shafts with a net cut weight as high as 125 grams.

Here is a quick reference chart for expected NET cut shaft weight on some DESCENDING wgt models, non of them is close to 125 grams net cut wgt for the #9.

1812859258_Descendingwgtchartnetcutwgt.JPG.2af735f408be5251b971bd7f00040c83.JPG

Even a Constant wgt shaft like DG S400 ends below 125 grams as NET cut wgt and in the area of 122-123 grams depending on hosel specs and play length, so are you sure its 125 grams net cut weight you talk about here? 

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1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:


Are you talking NET cut weight? Then you can forget ALL descending weight models on the market, it will be a problem to find constant wgt shafts with a net cut weight as high as 125 grams.

Here is a quick reference chart for expected NET cut shaft weight on some DESCENDING wgt models, non of them is close to 125 grams net cut wgt for the #9.

1812859258_Descendingwgtchartnetcutwgt.JPG.2af735f408be5251b971bd7f00040c83.JPG

Even a Constant wgt shaft like DG S400 ends below 125 grams as NET cut wgt and in the area of 122-123 grams depending on hosel specs and play length, so are you sure its 125 grams net cut weight you talk about here? 

 

This was my thoughts exactly.  This goal is impossible.

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13 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

This was my thoughts exactly.  This goal is impossible.


I really think the OP is talking UNCUT weight since thats the weight we use when we talk of shafts, and the only shaft that comes to my mind that could fit the bill here is the True Temper Tour Prototype Monaco as TX flex who was 135 grams uncut in a constant weight design.
That shaft is the only iron shaft i know that can be 125 grams net cut, but i cant imagine that the OP came from those.

Since Descending wgt and Constant wgt cant be directly compared on official weight, i made this small chart many years ago who shows descending wgt shafts as "Comparable weight", meaning they are now tip trimmed and brought down to the same length as uncut constant weight shafts. (only butt cutt to play from this weight, so now we can see what each shaft in the set corresponds with as uncut weight if it was a constant wgt shaft.

As example, a RIFLE FCM 7.0 Tour van blank looks like a monster shaft with a wgt of 146 grams uncut, but if we use the #6 iron for fitting, its really only a 128 grams shaft, and inline with DG S200 as Constant wgt before butt cut.

Butt still, even if the OP talked UNCUT weight with a reference to Constant wgt shafts, not even RIFLE 7.0 will be 125 grams as PW, we are down at 122 grams comparable weight, so we are above 3.32 grams pr inch to get there.

1283320905_Comparableshaftweight.JPG.7e407c11e2167423c328c6d00cb84e82.JPG 
 

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1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:


I really think the OP is talking UNCUT weight since thats the weight we use when we talk of shafts, and the only shaft that comes to my mind that could fit the bill here is the True Temper Tour Prototype Monaco as TX flex who was 135 grams uncut in a constant weight design.
That shaft is the only iron shaft i know that can be 125 grams net cut, but i cant imagine that the OP came from those.

Since Descending wgt and Constant wgt cant be directly compared on official weight, i made this small chart many years ago who shows descending wgt shafts as "Comparable weight", meaning they are now tip trimmed and brought down to the same length as uncut constant weight shafts. (only butt cutt to play from this weight, so now we can see what each shaft in the set corresponds with as uncut weight if it was a constant wgt shaft.

As example, a RIFLE FCM 7.0 Tour van blank looks like a monster shaft with a wgt of 146 grams uncut, but if we use the #6 iron for fitting, its really only a 128 grams shaft, and inline with DG S200 as Constant wgt before butt cut.

Butt still, even if the OP talked UNCUT weight with a reference to Constant wgt shafts, not even RIFLE 7.0 will be 125 grams as PW, we are down at 122 grams comparable weight, so we are above 3.32 grams pr inch to get there.

1283320905_Comparableshaftweight.JPG.7e407c11e2167423c328c6d00cb84e82.JPG 
 

 

I think so too.  Not going to ask you to measure it but I wonder if X7 might be close?  It's what 133g uncut with a reinforced tip and butt section?  It might not drop as much weight as these other guys.  I have also wondered if something really butt stiff like a Project X or KBS might be better for descending weight builds where the goal is generally tipping off most vs. butt trimming.  Then you retain the stiffness (and usually by extension weight) of the shaft more cleanly.

Just thinking out loud, no need to respond.

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56 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

I think so too.  Not going to ask you to measure it but I wonder if X7 might be close?  It's what 133g uncut with a reinforced tip and butt section?  It might not drop as much weight as these other guys.  I have also wondered if something really butt stiff like a Project X or KBS might be better for descending weight builds where the goal is generally tipping off most vs. butt trimming.  Then you retain the stiffness (and usually by extension weight) of the shaft more cleanly.

Just thinking out loud, no need to respond.


Nope, they are only a gram above S400, so they will also be below 125 as cut weight, we need 135 uncut as constant wgt to get to 125 net cut weight

135 grams /37.00" = 3.65 grams pr inch.
A standard PW is 35.75" and typical BBGM is 1.25 and gross grip cap is 0.25"
Before butt cut our PW will be 37.00+1.50" = 38.50" and down to a PL of 35.75" we have 2.75 " each of 3.65 grams = a loss of 10.03 grams and thats 125 gram net cut wgt.
 

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These are definitely still relevant after 8 years.  Not much to add other than I like mine a lot. The builder had a hard time getting these to D1(10 gram tungsten tip weights I think).  They fly/feel like modus 105 but easier on my joints, look good too. These are .355 taper and got them for a steal at the bay of evil.

99C005F9-743A-4553-9DCC-FE6546070CFF.jpeg

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Great info …. I understand the situation better now. 
so decided on zx7 heads with the program 130 shafts 

weight on program from 4-p are 107-102 …. 
So will this feel light to me ? Or will it feel like any 125-130 steel shaft ? 
my current Kbs tour 125 stiff plus is constant weight at .355 tip

will I notice a difference when installing the program 130?

whet I’ve learned is parallel.370 graphite can never feel like heavy steel ? Maybe I’m still confused 

 Thanks for all the help 

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9 hours ago, golf1010 said:

Great info …. I understand the situation better now. 
so decided on zx7 heads with the program 130 shafts 

weight on program from 4-p are 107-102 …. 
So will this feel light to me ? Or will it feel like any 125-130 steel shaft ? 
my current Kbs tour 125 stiff plus is constant weight at .355 tip

will I notice a difference when installing the program 130?

whet I’ve learned is parallel.370 graphite can never feel like heavy steel ? Maybe I’m still confused 

 Thanks for all the help 


KBS Tour S+ taper tip is Constant wgt, with a UNCUT wgt of 125 grams, and KBS standard is 0.5" longer than DG, so expected NET. cut weight for 4-PW looks like this:

We say a typical iron has 1.25" BBGM and gross grip cap is 0.25", so before we butt cutt to play length, we have raw shaft length + 1.50"

The #9 iron shaft is 37.50 + 1.50 = 39.00"
Standard Play length for a #9 is 36.00, so we have 3.0 inches we butt cut.
125 grams / 37.50" = 3.33 grams pr inch x 3.0 = 10 gram loss of shaft wgt.
NET Cut weight as play ready club becomes 115 grams.

The MATRIX 130 shafts is 117 grams / 40 inch = 2.92 grams pr inch
Our #9 become 40" + 1.50 = 41.50 before we cut down to PL at 37.00 and thats 4.5 inches x 2.92 grams = 13.14 grams loss of shaft weight, so 117 uncut becomes 104 grams.

Actual weight difference between KBS Tour S+ and Matrix is then 11 grams for the #9 iron.
When we now go longer with 0.5" for each club in the set, we also add half an inch of shaft weight (2.92/2) so lets use 1.5 grams for simplicity.

#9 = 104
#8 = 104 + 1.5 = 105.5
#7 = 105.5 + 1.5 = 107
#6 = 107 + 1.5 = 108.5
#5 = 108.5 + 1.5 = 110
#4 = 110 + 1.5 = 111.5

So, that set will have a #4 thats 3.5 grams below KBS Tour S+, down to the #9 who becomes 11 grams below KBS Tour S+



 

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