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Ball Flight & Lost Ball Ruling


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SCENARIO:
 
During a high school match, my daughter tee's off with her driver and the ball flight is traveling towards a fairway bunker. Her opponent has the same ball flight towards the same bunker. While my daughter is helping her teammate locate her ball, her opponent arrives at the bunker and plays her ball out of the bunker. My daughter arrives to the area where she last saw her ball go towards and her opponent notifies her that her ball is not in the bunker and that she has started a two minute timer for her to find the ball or take a drop. The ball is never found and her opponent instructs my daughter to take a drop inside the bunker.
 
The time to find the ball should of been three minutes but taking a drop inside the bunker? Let me know your thoughts. 
 
Kind Regards,
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5 minutes ago, creations213 said:
SCENARIO:
 
During a high school match, my daughter tee's off with her driver and the ball flight is traveling towards a fairway bunker. Her opponent has the same ball flight towards the same bunker. While my daughter is helping her teammate locate her ball, her opponent arrives at the bunker and plays her ball out of the bunker. My daughter arrives to the area where she last saw her ball go towards and her opponent notifies her that her ball is not in the bunker and that she has started a two minute timer for her to find the ball or take a drop. The ball is never found and her opponent instructs my daughter to take a drop inside the bunker.
 
The time to find the ball should of been three minutes but taking a drop inside the bunker? Let me know your thoughts. 
 
Kind Regards,

 

What was it match play or stroke play?

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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44 minutes ago, creations213 said:
SCENARIO:
 
During a high school match, my daughter tee's off with her driver and the ball flight is traveling towards a fairway bunker. Her opponent has the same ball flight towards the same bunker. While my daughter is helping her teammate locate her ball, her opponent arrives at the bunker and plays her ball out of the bunker. My daughter arrives to the area where she last saw her ball go towards and her opponent notifies her that her ball is not in the bunker and that she has started a two minute timer for her to find the ball or take a drop. The ball is never found and her opponent instructs my daughter to take a drop inside the bunker.
 
The time to find the ball should of been three minutes but taking a drop inside the bunker? Let me know your thoughts. 
 
Kind Regards,

 

Couple of observations.

 

It is NOT up to the opponent to start the timer. The timer starts when your daughter begins her search, and yes, it's 3 minutes.

 

The penalty drop, if the ball is not found is pretty clearly NOT in the bunker. If Local Rule E-5 is in effect, there is quite a large relief area at a cost of 2 shots. That relief area often includes the fairway. So she'd likely drop in the fairway and be lying 3.

 

I am assuming match play here since that's what you said but the stroke play procedure, afaik, is the same..

 

I'm guessing that ol' Sui, usually with an ace up his sleeve :classic_smile:, is ready to tell us something about your daughter (apparently - you didn't say) following the opponent's instruction of dropping in the bunker and any possible penalty to the opponent for suggesting/insisting/whatever that particular process. :classic_wink:

 

I'll be looking for Sui's "disclosure(s)". 🙃

 

 

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2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

I'll be looking for Sui's "disclosure(s)". 🙃

 

 

What might sound like an abomination in stroke play, can be somewhat okay in match play.

 

Rule 20.1b, Resolving Rules Issues During Round in Match Play, tells us, in part:

 

During a round, the players in a match may agree how to decide a Rules issue. The agreed outcome is conclusive even if it turns out to have been wrong under the Rules, so long as the players did not deliberately agree to ignore any Rule or penalty they knew applied.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=20&subrulenum=1

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

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The opponent is, of course, entitled to look after his/her own interest by timing the search but not to take charge of proceedings and "notify" and "instruct" the player.

 

As far as taking relief  in the bunker for the lost ball,  it matters little whether E-5 is in place.  If it is, the relief area must be in the general area, not a bunker.  If it isn't she should have taken stroke and distance.  Either way she has played from a wrong place.  However,  provided the players did not know the procedure was wrong and so were not agreeing not to apply a known rule,  they can play out the hole in this way, agree the result and the state of the match and get on with it in ignorance, though perhaps not of the blissful kind.

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13 hours ago, creations213 said:
SCENARIO:
 
During a high school match, my daughter tee's off with her driver and the ball flight is traveling towards a fairway bunker. Her opponent has the same ball flight towards the same bunker. While my daughter is helping her teammate locate her ball, her opponent arrives at the bunker and plays her ball out of the bunker. My daughter arrives to the area where she last saw her ball go towards and her opponent notifies her that her ball is not in the bunker and that she has started a two minute timer for her to find the ball or take a drop. The ball is never found and her opponent instructs my daughter to take a drop inside the bunker.
 
The time to find the ball should of been three minutes but taking a drop inside the bunker? Let me know your thoughts. 
 
Kind Regards,

I would suggest that you ask the high school if they shouldn't be teaching the rules of golf in addition to maths etc if they propose to continue running school teams.

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A couple quick thoughts reading this - good point by Sui...definitely big difference MP v. SP.

 

Either way though - if your player was over helping another player (I assume not nearby) and the other girl hit before she could get close that brings up a couple points. Even if SP, I'd want to verify she hit the correct ball! It's even questionable why she hit so fast (like was she doing something questionable)...but I guess nothing can really be done if no one saw her. Other than verifying that she did hot the correct ball.

 

Another interesting point re: MP...if the opponents ball is not yet found, and was seen heading in the same general area, then she really isn't permitted to hit, correct?

No knowledge of which ball may be further away?...unless the opponent gives permission (as a time saving measure), and again once her ball has been positively identified.

 

 

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Following this one. Interesting to hear people question if she was in the right to hit (pertaining to who was away) without her opponents ball first being found. 
 

I know match play rules are a bit different but I never would have thought that being an issue. I commonly see something like this occur, player A hits left side of fairway and player B just off in the right rough. Driving distance has been about the same all day. Player A comes to their ball and hits while player B is still looking. Is player A now at risk of being penalized for hitting out of turn? Again, I know it’s a friendly game at the level the large majority of us play it at. Just curious because I haven’t even thought of that being an issue until reading the two previous post. 

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There''s no penalty for playing out of turn.  In match play, if you play out of turn, your opponent has the choice of accepting the shot or requiring you to cancel it and play again.  In the situation of a search going on and the other player playing only to find that he was out of turn when the missing ball is found, has anyone ever heard of the shot being recalled?  

 

Famously, Annika Sorenstam was required by her American opponents to replay a shot in the Solheim Cup in 2000.  She had chipped in from off the green but the Americans were away and it was obviously to their advantage to recall the shot, it being unlikely that she would do that same again.  She was a bit sore about it and afterwards made some noise about unsportsmanlike behaviour, but I reckon that the only unsportsmanlike bit was making a noise about what the Americans had every right to do, and in the circumstances every good reason to do.

 

 

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