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Why not degree of loft on irons vs a number?


bekgolf
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Perhaps this has been asked before but wouldn't it be easier to just have the loft stamped on an iron instead of a random number that means nothing?

 

My current 5 iron is 23 degrees but the previous set had a 27 degree 5 iron.  Current iron families have a 5 iron loft as low as 21 degrees which was a 3 iron loft at one time.

 

I think it's just marketing but still, some kind of standardization would be nice. 

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10 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

Perhaps this has been asked before but wouldn't it be easier to just have the loft stamped on an iron instead of a random number that means nothing?

 

My current 5 iron is 23 degrees but the previous set had a 27 degree 5 iron.  Current iron families have a 5 iron loft as low as 21 degrees which was a 3 iron loft at one time.

 

I think it's just marketing but still, some kind of standardization would be nice. 

 

Correct marketing.  To me a PW = 50 degrees.  

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12 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

Perhaps this has been asked before but wouldn't it be easier to just have the loft stamped on an iron instead of a random number that means nothing?

 

 

The number on the iron means something to the player, and that's what matters. In your bag you know how far you hit your 7-iron, your 9-iron etc..., right?

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12 minutes ago, Ivyguy said:

You hit it… Marketing. 
 

Ben Hogan iron used to do that until recently. Maybe there’s something in the manufacturing (cost per stamp, stocking 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 degrees PW—-> instead of a PW they bend to spec), but it’s probably marketing. 

The TA Silver Scott irons had the loft stamped on the toe.  If I recall correctly the PW was 48*, and it was one of the first sets that offered a gap wedge. 52*.  That was considered loft jacking back then.  🥴

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18 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

The number on the iron means something to the player, and that's what matters. In your bag you know how far you hit your 7-iron, your 9-iron etc..., right?

Absolutely.

 

What if in an alternate reality golfers knew how far they hit their 27 degree iron?  I realize it will never happen.  It's just one of those things (a number that has to be translated into a degree) that make little sense to me and sometimes I think out loud.  On the internet I type it out.

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55 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

Perhaps this has been asked before but wouldn't it be easier to just have the loft stamped on an iron instead of a random number that means nothing?

 

My current 5 iron is 23 degrees but the previous set had a 27 degree 5 iron.  Current iron families have a 5 iron loft as low as 21 degrees which was a 3 iron loft at one time.

 

I think it's just marketing but still, some kind of standardization would be nice. 

 

Because if you stamped 34* on the bottom then bent it to 36 for gapping you might be pissed.

 

"I know it says 34 on the bottom, but it's a 35.5 now, see the Sharpie on the back?"

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48 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

The number on the iron means something to the player, and that's what matters. In your bag you know how far you hit your 7-iron, your 9-iron etc..., right?

Yup.  Maybe there are some people who would rather think "I hit my 37 degree this far and my 33 degree this far" than "I hit my 8 iron this far and my 7 iron this far" but it's probably a small percentage.  Either way, those numbers change (club number/loft vs distance) from set to set.  I would imagine at the pro level that asking your caddie to know your iron loft/distance versus iron number/distance would make you seem to be very high maintenance.  Even if you are using the loft to compare one set to another, a 33 degree 7 iron of one set doesn't make it comparable to 33 degree 8 iron of another set if they are at different club lengths, different shafts, etc.  And, as suggested above, if you bend your 8 iron a degree stronger, it's still your 8 iron.  If you bend your 37 degree club a degree stronger, it's no longer a 37 degree club.

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3 minutes ago, cardigan said:

Yup.  Maybe there are some people who would rather think "I hit my 37 degree this far and my 33 degree this far" than "I hit my 8 iron this far and my 7 iron this far" but it's probably a small percentage.  Either way, those numbers change (club number/loft vs distance) from set to set.  I would imagine at the pro level that asking your caddie to know your iron loft/distance versus iron number/distance would make you seem to be very high maintenance.  Even if you are using the loft to compare one set to another, a 33 degree 7 iron of one set doesn't make it comparable to 33 degree 8 iron of another set if they are at different club lengths, different shafts, etc.  And, as suggested above, if you bend your 8 iron a degree stronger, it's still your 8 iron.  If you bend your 37 degree club a degree stronger, it's no longer a 37 degree club.

 

So an 8 iron is always an 8 iron because there is an 8 stamped into it.  Loft of the club doesn't matter, just the fact that is has an 8 on it?  Even if my current 8 iron has less loft than the 7 iron in my old set.

 

In the end it doesn't matter, it's just a number.  I'd just like to see some kind of standard vs the current trend of calling yesterdays 3 iron a 5 iron today.  But that's me.

 

 

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Standards will never happen. We think that a PW was always 50 degrees but not true , it was higher. We are under the assumption that their has been a standard. It’s been changing forever, maybe slower at one time but all the same changing.

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FW woods and hybrids are often just numbered with the loft, the same with wedges.  In fact most people only have 5 or 6 clubs in the bag anymore that are a truly matched set of numbered irons.  The days of most pros carrying a set with a 1-9 iron and PW along with a potential 1,2,3,4 wood are long gone.  

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Just now, bekgolf said:

 

So an 8 iron is always an 8 iron because there is an 8 stamped into it.  Loft of the club doesn't matter, just the fact that is has an 8 on it?  Even if my current 8 iron has less loft than the 7 iron in my old set.

 

In the end it doesn't matter, it's just a number.  I'd just like to see some kind of standard vs the current trend of calling yesterdays 3 iron a 5 iron today.  But that's me.

 

 

I would not hold my breath on waiting for the OEM's to agree on a standard.  They love saying their 8 iron goes further than someone else's 7 iron.  It's more important to me to know how far my 7 iron goes than it is to know how far an 8 iron with the same loft in a set I'm not playing goes in comparison goes.

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13 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

FW woods and hybrids are often just numbered with the loft, the same with wedges.  In fact most people only have 5 or 6 clubs in the bag anymore that are a truly matched set of numbered irons.  The days of most pros carrying a set with a 1-9 iron and PW along with a potential 1,2,3,4 wood are long gone.  

I don't disagree but I would say that woods, hybrids, and wedges are quite different from iron sets in the way that they are utilized and purchased.  People often look for a replacement 3 wood or lob wedge.  How many people look and buy a new 8 iron to squeeze between a current 7 iron and 9 iron?  One is more focused at looking at how an individual club works for you and the other is looking at how several clubs work for you, more in comparison to each other than to another set.

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1 hour ago, lefthack said:

 

Because if you stamped 34* on the bottom then bent it to 36 for gapping you might be pissed.

 

"I know it says 34 on the bottom, but it's a 35.5 now, see the Sharpie on the back?"

 

This nails it. Almost every set of irons I get I'll adjust the lofts on at least a few of the clubs. Either because of the lofts that were delivered from the OEM, or because I put different shafts in them, or because some clubs (for some reason) just play stronger than others, and/or progress through the lofts differently. Some clubs may not get adjusted at all, some by 1/2* now and then one by 1* or 1.5*. Almost always do two fittings with new clubs, an immediate one for lie, and then after a few rounds another one for loft. Just wanting a consistent progression of distances. 

 

Once everything is fiddled with and bent, my "8 iron" means a lot more in my brain than "36*", since it is no longer necessarily, in fact, 36*.

 

I do understand why the numbers are on wedges, that is different. I never adjust wedge lofts, as the relationship between the grind/sole/loft is so precisely tuned on good wedges, and distance is quite secondary to precision. And on the D/FWs, the number is kind of meaningless because you can make so many adjustments of the clubhead. 

 

But irons? Would be silly to stamp the actual degrees.

Edited by bobfoster
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15 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

 

This nails it. Almost every set of irons I get I'll adjust the lofts on at least a few of the clubs. Either because of the lofts that were delivered from the OEM, or because I put different shafts in them, or because some clubs (for some reason) just play stronger than others, and/or progress through the lofts differently. Some clubs may not get adjusted at all, some by 1/2* now and then one by 1* or 1.5*. Almost always do two fittings with new clubs, an immediate one for lie, and then after a few rounds another one for loft. Just wanting a consistent progression of distances. 

 

Once everything is fiddled with and bent, my "8 iron" means a lot more in my brain than "36*", since it is no longer necessarily, in fact, 36*.

 

I do understand why the numbers are on wedges, that is different. I never adjust wedge lofts, as the relationship between the grind/sole/loft is so precisely tuned on good wedges, and distance is quite secondary to precision. And on the D/FWs, the number is kind of meaningless because you can make so many adjustments of the clubhead. 

 

But irons? Would be silly to stamp the actual degrees.

What I'm interpreting is that for you it's easier to convert the 8 iron number to degrees than it is to see an actual number because you will just modify it anyway?

 

Yes, it would be silly to indicate degrees of loft on anything but wedges, fairway woods, drivers, etc. 

 

Right now I'm wondering why manufacturers even publish lofts of irons?  I should just accept that brand A 8 iron carries 140 for me while brand B 8 iron carries 150.  Why would I need to know lofts when comparing?  It's just silly.

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1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

How about we just etch the distance we hit each club in the bottom. All that matters

Works for Westwood

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee-westwood-irons-stock-yardages

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12 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

What I'm interpreting is that for you it's easier to convert the 8 iron number to degrees than it is to see an actual number because you will just modify it anyway?

 

Yes, it would be silly to indicate degrees of loft on anything but wedges, fairway woods, drivers, etc. 

 

Right now I'm wondering why manufacturers even publish lofts of irons?  I should just accept that brand A 8 iron carries 140 for me while brand B 8 iron carries 150.  Why would I need to know lofts when comparing?  It's just silly.

Absolutely correct (IMO). I don't even bother trying to convert iron numbers to lofts, I covert them to distances. But actually it is even more than that. Distance/apex - ball flight. Every club I have has three clubs in it: Normal swing, hooded draw (lower apex, longer distance), and high fade (higher apex, shorter distance). I practice this stuff on the range. 

 

And even at that I am merely a stumbling novice. The pros? As silly as it sounds - they are like Tin Cup (even though that was a movie and not a documentary, still it got some things right). He played an entire back nine with a 7 iron. Low and long off the tee. Mid iron. Short iron. Wedge. Out of the sand. Even putted with it. The pros are that good. 

 

Tin Cup didn't say "my 32*". He said "my trusty 7 iron". There's a reason the pros don't have lofts on their irons, only 6, 7, 8 & etc. I think it is about how you think about your clubs.

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Going to the number vs. degrees gave the manufacturers a "range" of lofts as opposed to a finite number. With mass production this allows for looser tolerances and still be within spec.

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11 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

So an 8 iron is always an 8 iron because there is an 8 stamped into it.  Loft of the club doesn't matter, just the fact that is has an 8 on it? 

 

 

Correct.  This is the way the majority of players view it.

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12 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Right now I'm wondering why manufacturers even publish lofts of irons?  I should just accept that brand A 8 iron carries 140 for me while brand B 8 iron carries 150.  Why would I need to know lofts when comparing?  It's just silly.

 

Because Joe Public who doesn't fully grasp physics will buy club B thinking he's gaining 10 yards on his old set because "magic". So you need to make him aware that club B while stamped 8 is a 36* 8 and not a 39* 8.

Edited by lefthack
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15 hours ago, Ivyguy said:

You hit it… Marketing. 
 

Ben Hogan iron used to do that until recently. Maybe there’s something in the manufacturing (cost per stamp, stocking 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 degrees PW—-> instead of a PW they bend to spec), but it’s probably marketing. 

 

IIRC t.hey did it for one year, added the club number to the loft after one year and dropped the loft after that. Its been 4-5 years since they stamped loft on their clubs.

 

As in all the past discussions I will ask again, why stamp the loft? What purpose does it serve? To allow Player A to snicker at Player B for hitting less loft than they are and/or make fun of them for not knowing their clubs are strong lofted seems to be the biggest reasons that gets posted here all the time(although not actually stated that way it is the message). All I need to know is how far do I typically hit a given club during play, at a trajectory I want and are my distance gaps consistent. Doesn't really matter what the specs are or how the club is identified.

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