Low spin or standard driver head for somewhat inconsistent driver swing? Accuracy over distance

[RoyalMustang]

I have been playing around with driver heads, but on the track monitor, my spin can be anywhere between 1900 and 2800, depending on where I hit it on the face.  I have been playing around with different driver heads and the low spin models seem to be more controllable and have fewer "bad" misses.  For example, I bought a 410 LST and 410 Max, and a TS2/TS3 to compare.  So far, the LST and TS3 are the more accurate of the group.  I know the others are designed to spin a little more and launch a little higher, but by going with the low spin options, what am I gaining and losing?  My launch is a little low and I usually use a 10.5 setting; otherwise I can get a 320 yard drive but it is all rollout with a hard-hit line drive.  

 

The last time I was on the monitor, SS was up a bit to 107-111 due to better mechanics of reducing slide and getting more left hip clearance.  I was at 105-109 previously.  Launch angle was about neutral.  Spin was generally around 2500 but ranged from 1800 to 2800, depending on where I was on the face of the club.  My best drives were launching 13 degrees with spin of around 2300, ball speed of 162-166.   

 

Because I am somewhat inconsistent, I would rather be slightly shorter with more control, although I can't really yet "work the ball" outside of playing with my foot position

Edited October 11, 2021 by RoyalMustang

[rsballer10]

2 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

I have been playing around with driver heads, but on the track monitor, my spin can be anywhere between 1900 and 2800, depending on where I hit it on the face.  I have been playing around with different driver heads and the low spin models seem to be more controllable and have fewer "bad" misses.  For example, I bought a 410 LST and 410 Max, and a TS2/TS3 to compare.  So far, the LST and TS3 are the more accurate of the group.  I know the others are designed to spin a little more and launch a little higher, but by going with the low spin options, what am I gaining and losing?  My launch is a little low and I usually use a 10.5 setting; otherwise I can get a 320 yard drive but it is all rollout with a hard-hit line drive.  

 

The last time I was on the monitor, SS was up a bit to 107-111 due to better mechanics of reducing slide and getting more left hip clearance.  I was at 105-109 previously.  Launch angle was about neutral.  Spin was generally around 2500 but ranged from 1800 to 2800, depending on where I was on the face of the club.  My best drives were launching 13 degrees with spin of around 2300, ball speed of 162-166.   

 

Because I am somewhat inconsistent, I would rather be slightly shorter with more control, although I can't really yet "work the ball" outside of playing with my foot position

 

Not to pick the low hanging fruit but most likely the answer is find a good fitter. That would get you to the correct answer quicker.

 

The DIY route is kind of the trial and error route, from my own experience I prefer the lower spin model heads at a higher loft (10.5). I also had success playing the forgiving/MAX forgiveness type drivers, and just lowered the loft on the sleeve. The reason I stick with the low spinning heads is I just seem to get less over draws with it.

 

I've stuck with the M1 440 CC head for a while just because I'm comfortable with it.

 

 

[phizzy30]

3 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

My best drives were launching 13 degrees with spin of around 2300, ball speed of 162-166

Those numbers are optimal for you.  You don't really want more than 15* of launch IMO and erring on the side of slightly lower launch is fine as long as you keep your spin in check which it seems like you are doing. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by phizzy30

[Valtiel]

Agreed with Phizzy, and high MOI is your friend when it comes to consistency. If the G410 LST is producing good results then that is what I'd recommend. Lots of tweaking/fitting options available with it as well. 

[LeoLeo99]

At a certain point, the club is optimized and it's up to the player to swing it consistently.  SS of 110 mph and spin at 2300 rpm is great.  Really great.  It's up to you now.  

[Mookieb10]

G400 Max. 

[RoyalMustang]

6 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

I have been playing around with driver heads, but on the track monitor, my spin can be anywhere between 1900 and 2800, depending on where I hit it on the face.  I have been playing around with different driver heads and the low spin models seem to be more controllable and have fewer "bad" misses.  For example, I bought a 410 LST and 410 Max, and a TS2/TS3 to compare.  So far, the LST and TS3 are the more accurate of the group.  I know the others are designed to spin a little more and launch a little higher, but by going with the low spin options, what am I gaining and losing?  My launch is a little low and I usually use a 10.5 setting; otherwise I can get a 320 yard drive but it is all rollout with a hard-hit line drive.  

 

The last time I was on the monitor, SS was up a bit to 107-111 (from 105-109); launch angle was about neutral.  Spin was generally around 2500 but ranged from 1800 to 2800, depending on where I was on the face of the club.  My best drives were launching 13 degrees with spin of around 2300, ball speed of 162-166.   

 

Because I am somewhat inconsistent, I would rather be slightly shorter with more control, although I can't really yet "work the ball" outside of playing with my foot position

 

Got it.  Thanks everyone.  I went back out and was hitting a SIM 2 w/Ventus 7X at 44.5" best today.  Not too many hard draws and plenty of manageable fades.  I did try out the other 4 drivers, and for whatever reason, I felt a lot more consistent with the low spin heads. The SIM2 felt best, and the shaft was VERY sturdy.  

 

Interestingly enough, I was only carrying about 25 yards more with the SIM than with my new TSi2 5 wood at 1/2 short and set to 18.75 degrees.  Granted, that was with distance limited range balls, but it is still somewhat surprising.  I just clear my hips better with that 5 wood.  No idea why I can't do that with my driver, but I can't.  There is probably distance to be gained if I can figure it out.  

[phizzy30]

28 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Got it.  Thanks everyone.  I went back out and was hitting a SIM 2 w/Ventus 7X at 44.5" best today.  Not too many hard draws and plenty of manageable fades.  I did try out the other 4 drivers, and for whatever reason, I felt a lot more consistent with the low spin heads. The SIM2 felt best, and the shaft was VERY sturdy.  

 

Interestingly enough, I was only carrying about 25 yards more with the SIM than with my new TSi2 5 wood at 1/2 short and set to 18.75 degrees.  Granted, that was with distance limited range balls, but it is still somewhat surprising.  I just clear my hips better with that 5 wood.  No idea why I can't do that with my driver, but I can't.  There is probably distance to be gained if I can figure it out.  

The Ventus Black was never a distance shaft for me as I didn't get the highest ball speeds from it, but it sure was accurate.  The Tensei 1k gave me the highest ball speeds but my misses were horrendous.  We want it all, but you usually will have to sacrifice one or the other.  If you can find the "unicorn" shaft that gives you both, then consider yourself very lucky. 

[bnperrone]

1 hour ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Got it.  Thanks everyone.  I went back out and was hitting a SIM 2 w/Ventus 7X at 44.5" best today.  Not too many hard draws and plenty of manageable fades.  I did try out the other 4 drivers, and for whatever reason, I felt a lot more consistent with the low spin heads. The SIM2 felt best, and the shaft was VERY sturdy.  

 

Interestingly enough, I was only carrying about 25 yards more with the SIM than with my new TSi2 5 wood at 1/2 short and set to 18.75 degrees.  Granted, that was with distance limited range balls, but it is still somewhat surprising.  I just clear my hips better with that 5 wood.  No idea why I can't do that with my driver, but I can't.  There is probably distance to be gained if I can figure it out.  

I was recently lacking distance why it seemed like I was swinging well, and I came across a ball position feature with Jon Rahm talking about how close he and Tiger get to the ball. The feelings they described were familiar, and I immediately went back to far better contact and way more efficiency of speed and distance. Bonus was less stress on my back with a lot of gained distance AND control. 
Basically, it forced me to pull my trail hip back properly and then clear out coming through without spinning out because there’s no other choice. 
 

I fight high spin on driver a touch when I’m hitting it well, and it’s bad when I’m off. The shorter clubs are way better distance and control when I’m off as well, like you getting almost as much from a 5-wood as driver. 
 

Seems similar enough to give it a shot. Just get a little close, get the hands close to your body, and then pull that hip back and let it rip. Simple experiment.

[JAMH03]

Long story short.

See: Tom Wishon's advice on similar.

[RoyalMustang]

42 minutes ago, bnperrone said:

I was recently lacking distance why it seemed like I was swinging well, and I came across a ball position feature with Jon Rahm talking about how close he and Tiger get to the ball. The feelings they described were familiar, and I immediately went back to far better contact and way more efficiency of speed and distance. Bonus was less stress on my back with a lot of gained distance AND control. 
Basically, it forced me to pull my trail hip back properly and then clear out coming through without spinning out because there’s no other choice. 
 

I fight high spin on driver a touch when I’m hitting it well, and it’s bad when I’m off. The shorter clubs are way better distance and control when I’m off as well, like you getting almost as much from a 5-wood as driver. 
 

Seems similar enough to give it a shot. Just get a little close, get the hands close to your body, and then pull that hip back and let it rip. Simple experiment.

 

That is a familiar feeling; I am probably setting up a bit too far and getting flat as a result. When I swing well, I get my shoulders perpendicular to the ball and then load that trail hip. The one advantage I have is a strong core and lower body.  I drive that right leg and then clear the hips. If I sync well, the ball jumps off the club, but it a lot harder to sync on the driver vs the 5 wood.  

 

I will give it a shot!

 

Do you have a link to that video? I couldn't find it on a search.  

 

Edit: I just tried it outside and not playing with hands outstretched felt like I was pulling the club in an arcing motion up, rather than around and behind. Much more natural and easy to load; it felt just like my 5W swing!  

Edited October 12, 2021 by RoyalMustang

[RoyalMustang]

27 minutes ago, JAMH03 said:

Long story short.

See: Tom Wishon's advice on similar.

 

From what I read:

 

Loft is key: don't be too low on loft (for me, I have been most consistent with the low spin SIM2 at 10.5).

 

Don't play too long of a driver (the Ventus 7X black I was hitting well today is 44.5").  

 

Anything else?  

 

I like that 44.5": is there any material difference between adding 4 swingweight in lead tape to the head and playing a 45.25" driver at 44.5" vs just cutting it to 44.5"? 

[bnperrone]

18 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

That is a familiar feeling; I am probably setting up a bit too far and getting flat as a result. When I swing well, I get my shoulders perpendicular to the ball and then load that trail hip. The one advantage I have is a strong core and lower body.  I drive that right leg and then clear the hips. If I sync well, the ball jumps off the club, but it a lot harder to sync on the driver vs the 5 wood.  

 

I will give it a shot!

 

Do you have a link to that video? I couldn't find it on a search.  

I never store items to my Facebook account but I wound up digging for the video after seeing it initially, so I saved it.

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fgolf.com%2Finstruction%2Fwhy-standing-closer-ball-can-fix-early-extension%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2nCUNg_MU71SvmEDpOHns0ndC9LqJ2cbMqx9cIwIE6iKkLU3-duyRYUKs&h=AT32JNDGBZnIhGl2cZwUZ80n_AldeKm_Jjbo6t9shsm_UiJ0V8ENaOEP0mc1RBXnd_XlMMsG7oEakntzuarT8mFTzN6VU1ncpByjo0OgYEEsb6wzZ_048sP6YOQB&s=1

Edited October 12, 2021 by bnperrone

[RoyalMustang]

Just now, bnperrone said:

I never do this but I wound up digging for the video after seeing it initially, so I saved it.

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fgolf.com%2Finstruction%2Fwhy-standing-closer-ball-can-fix-early-extension%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2nCUNg_MU71SvmEDpOHns0ndC9LqJ2cbMqx9cIwIE6iKkLU3-duyRYUKs&h=AT32JNDGBZnIhGl2cZwUZ80n_AldeKm_Jjbo6t9shsm_UiJ0V8ENaOEP0mc1RBXnd_XlMMsG7oEakntzuarT8mFTzN6VU1ncpByjo0OgYEEsb6wzZ_048sP6YOQB&s=1

 

Hey, thanks! I bet you are onto something here.  

[ShakeyT]

Give the Radspeed XB a shot. I was in the G410 LST & the XB gave me lower spin & more forgiveness. I was shocked to be honest. 

[Tupperwolf]

1 hour ago, bnperrone said:

I was recently lacking distance why it seemed like I was swinging well, and I came across a ball position feature with Jon Rahm talking about how close he and Tiger get to the ball. The feelings they described were familiar, and I immediately went back to far better contact and way more efficiency of speed and distance. Bonus was less stress on my back with a lot of gained distance AND control. 
Basically, it forced me to pull my trail hip back properly and then clear out coming through without spinning out because there’s no other choice. 
 

I fight high spin on driver a touch when I’m hitting it well, and it’s bad when I’m off. The shorter clubs are way better distance and control when I’m off as well, like you getting almost as much from a 5-wood as driver. 
 

Seems similar enough to give it a shot. Just get a little close, get the hands close to your body, and then pull that hip back and let it rip. Simple experiment.

Do you have a link to that article? I'd like to read it.

[bnperrone]

9 hours ago, Tupperwolf said:

Do you have a link to that article? I'd like to read it.

It’s the link a couple comments up. 

[JAMH03]

On 10/11/2021 at 6:13 PM, RoyalMustang said:

Anything else?  

 

I like that 44.5": is there any material difference between adding 4 swingweight in lead tape to the head and playing a 45.25" driver at 44.5" vs just cutting it to 44.5"? 

Shorter + more loft = better misses and better golf scores.

Pretty much nailed it then you try and give it away by going longer again. 😛

Please don't take my advice.  Please do measure and see which config you hit straighter and farther.

@RoyalMustang if we go back to your original ask.

 

Quote

Low spin or standard driver head for somewhat inconsistent driver swing? Accuracy over distance

Shorter length and more loft fix those 2 issues better than anything I can think of right now.

Now it's golf, both power and ego are a huge part of the decision making process and fun in playing. 

But that's why we have to measure to understand exactly how much potential distance we're talking about giving up vs how much accuracy we might gain.

Hope this helps.

[Stuart_G]

24 minutes ago, JAMH03 said:

Shorter length and more loft fix those 2 issues better than anything I can think of right now.

 

It's a bit of an over generalization - and those should never be followed blindly.

 

Shorter length is certainly a good first step - but it's also very important that the shaft weight and head weight are in sync with the playing length.  The weight contributions being a good fit is just as important (if not more so) than just looking at the playing length alone.

 

More loft only really helps significantly enough to make a difference in the context of switching club selection.    Choosing a 3wd over a driver for a particular tee shot is certainly one way to improve accuracy.   But that does NOT mean that picking an 11* or 12* driver over a 9* or 10* driver is going to make any appreciable difference in accuracy.    It's not the commonly perceived effect of the loft on the spin axis (more backspin = less axis tilt) that is what is increasing the accuracy.  That's a very common misconception.   It's really the fact that the increase in loft decreases the distance - and less total distance means less distance offline on an errant shot.   So a few degrees (and no playing length change) isn't going to have that big of an effect on the total distance offline.

 

So throw out the idea that driver loft selection is going to provide any significant help in the accuracy department.   Instead stick to (in this order):

1a) playing length

1b) grip size a good fit.

2) shaft weight

3) head weight

4) head MOI

5) face angle (for some - can be higher up on list)

6) shaft stiffness profile not a poor fit (for some can be higher up on the list)

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Stuart_G