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46 Inch + Drivers on Tour


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5 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

So hitting 2 off every other tee and then a 3 minute search a couple times a round is quicker than fairways and greens ?  Come on man. You know what I’m saying is true.  You can think it’s an ok issue to put up with , but it’s impossible to argue that it’s not slowing the game down.  

 

No I don't.  18 holes of taking one's dear sweet time with every pre shot routine and putting stroke far out weigh a handful of errant drives.  On the local muni, its usually the guys looking for free balls in the weeds that slow crap up combined with said habits people have.  They add up over 18 holes to a lot of wasted time.  

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29 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I hear ya.  I get passionate about it because it is a sport I am absolutely obsessed with and I despise beyond anything, objective stupidity infecting the game.  Pretty sure I can prove beyond a doubt that the USGA is objectively stupid and said stupidity is infecting the game.

See we agree more than you think.  I’m just willing to look at the flip sides too. 
 

I also hate this new ruling. I’m not playing 48.but I’m in the line of 46. By mm. So close that I need to setup a fixture to get the 60 degree angle to measure off the sole to be sure.  They’ll DQ you over one mm I’m sure. And it’s all for nothing.  I’m tall and I’ve found a comfortable length.  
 

my entire point on the flip side is that of pace of play is the main gripe as Bob said. Then shorter courses and shorter ball and clubs  is the answer. There’s no denying that shorter flight tightens dispersion.  More spin tightens dispersion for better players. 
 

but the usga couldn’t close an umbrella.  So it’s nonsense like this we get.  

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1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

In all seriousness, to agree with @bobfoster

pace of play is why.  I try ( and fail often ) to compete in state and usga level events.  What I have seen over the last 4 years is this. There are tons of guys who can pound driver.  You’ll see guys standing on par 4 tee boxes waiting for guys to get on a green because they’re going at a bunker or dogleg thats 320 out.  You’d be surprised at how many can get there.  So waiting is the play for safety.  But of course a large percentage then hit a foul ball and then a search is needed etc.   you’ll see it 2/3 times a round at least.  Same for -any par 5.  You’re not seeing any layups.  I’m talking 7200 yard courses. It’s not always total pace of play times.  The flow of a round matters a lot too. 
 

im just reporting what I see , today’s length doesn’t fit a lot of courses.  Long guys do one of two things. 1. Dont hit many drivers 2. Wait for play to clear a lot so they can try to hit driver.  And fail to hit it in play about 50 % of the time on a bad day.   Out of play being in the woods , hazard or OB.  Alll slowing the pace down. I firmly believe that in days gone by these better players hit more balls in play  and  played much faster . Today everyone goes for broke.  You’re either shooting 3/5 under or 74-75.   Even par is a guy who played too conservative. 
 

at any rate.  They’re implementing changes that will make you vs pros a different set of rules. If you can play a 48 inch driver but Phil can’t. That’s not the same rules.   Slowly but surely .  The ball will be next.  

 

I'm not saying it doesn't slow down play, but I think that's a tough stance to take in the nature of this debate. I've played competitively for 20 years, including college and have not felt that driver length specifically is what makes a noticeable difference. Driver length aside, Trackman has proven that the longer players are usually the straighter players due to kinematic sequencing increasing clubhead stability and clubhead speed simultaneously. 

 

I play a 48" driver and I'm an anomaly compared to my state and USGA level friends. NOBODY plays these. I see what you're saying, I respectfully disagree. . 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

See we agree more than you think.  I’m just willing to look at the flip sides too. 
 

I also hate this new ruling. I’m not playing 48.but I’m in the line of 46. By mm. So close that I need to setup a fixture to get the 60 degree angle to measure off the sole to be sure.  They’ll DQ you over one mm I’m sure. And it’s all for nothing.  I’m tall and I’ve found a comfortable length.  
 

my entire point on the flip side is that of pace of play is the main gripe as Bob said. Then shorter courses and shorter ball and clubs  is the answer. There’s no denying that shorter flight tightens dispersion.  More spin tightens dispersion for better players. 
 

but the usga couldn’t close an umbrella.  So it’s nonsense like this we get.  

 

I disagree about the play time thing.  Par 3 courses exist for someone to get out and play a quick round.  There are also places that have 3 or 4 hole practice courses.  I would think those would take off in popularity if pace of play was as big of an issue as people say it is.  Don't get me wrong, pace of play can definitely be a problem but at the same time, its sort of just a part of the game.

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4 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I disagree about the play time thing.  Par 3 courses exist for someone to get out and play a quick round.  There are also places that have 3 or 4 hole practice courses.  I would think those would take off in popularity if pace of play was as big of an issue as people say it is.  Don't get me wrong, pace of play can definitely be a problem but at the same time, its sort of just a part of the game.

Pace doesn’t bother me much.  I’m just responding to the supposed real problem in the game.     I just don’t play on Sunday.  I know every hack on earth is there.  Most bigger tournament rounds move because they have officials roaming to move you.  
 

I just wished the usga would shat or get off the pot.   Make up your minds what game were playing.  Big ball or small ball so to speak.  Bomb or tArget. 

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8 minutes ago, Uncle_Buck2 said:

 

I'm not saying it doesn't slow down play, but I think that's a tough stance to take in the nature of this debate. I've played competitively for 20 years, including college and have not felt that driver length specifically is what makes a noticeable difference. Driver length aside, Trackman has proven that the longer players are usually the straighter players due to kinematic sequencing increasing clubhead stability and clubhead speed simultaneously. 

 

I play a 48" driver and I'm an anomaly compared to my state and USGA level friends. NOBODY plays these. I see what you're saying, I respectfully disagree. . 

 

 

No worries.  

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9 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Pace doesn’t bother me much.  I’m just responding to the supposed real problem in the game.     I just don’t play on Sunday.  I know every hack on earth is there.  Most bigger tournament rounds move because they have officials roaming to move you.  
 

I just wished the usga would shat or get off the pot.   Make up your minds what game were playing.  Big ball or small ball so to speak.  Bomb or tArget. 

 

I think they just need to accept that the game has changed and if they want to remain relevant, they need to keep working on updating rules that are objectively stupid, make the game more accessible and interesting to the next generation (by changing its image primarily), and fill in the equipment rules with stop gaps that don't roll anything back.

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1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

In all seriousness, to agree with @bobfoster

pace of play is why.  I try ( and fail often ) to compete in state and usga level events.  What I have seen over the last 4 years is this. There are tons of guys who can pound driver.  You’ll see guys standing on par 4 tee boxes waiting for guys to get on a green because they’re going at a bunker or dogleg thats 320 out.  You’d be surprised at how many can get there.  So waiting is the play for safety.  But of course a large percentage then hit a foul ball and then a search is needed etc.   you’ll see it 2/3 times a round at least.  Same for -any par 5.  You’re not seeing any layups.  I’m talking 7200 yard courses. It’s not always total pace of play times.  The flow of a round matters a lot too. 
 

im just reporting what I see , today’s length doesn’t fit a lot of courses.  Long guys do one of two things. 1. Dont hit many drivers 2. Wait for play to clear a lot so they can try to hit driver.  And fail to hit it in play about 50 % of the time on a bad day.   Out of play being in the woods , hazard or OB.  Alll slowing the pace down. I firmly believe that in days gone by these better players hit more balls in play  and  played much faster . Today everyone goes for broke.  You’re either shooting 3/5 under or 74-75.   Even par is a guy who played too conservative. 
 

 

 

At the Tour level , and some high skill level amateur tournaments,  your points about distance affecting pace of play are true. But 99% of people playing golf courses never strike a tee shot that travels longer than 250 yards. So the courses and the game are fine, no problem.

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45 minutes ago, clevited said:

Lets think through this together.

 

-USGA wants to limit distance

 

 

I don't really think the USGA wants to do this, and whatever you call what they did this week, is kind of their way to come out and say "look we did something"  without really doing anything.   There's a lot of money tied up in distance.  When you look at history, the long hitters generate buzz and get talked about, even when they're not winning.   Look at a guy like Wilco Nienaber, his best accomplishment on one of the big tours is 68th place in the US Open.  Yet he somehow manages to get air time and people talk about him because of how far he hits it.  If he was just a guy who poked it 280, he wouldn't even be a blip on anybody's radar.   Distance is a huge money maker, so I have to think somewhere behind the scenes there's people all over discouraging any real moves.  

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

I don't really think the USGA wants to do this, and whatever you call what they did this week, is kind of their way to come out and say "look we did something"  without really doing anything.   There's a lot of money tied up in distance.  When you look at history, the long hitters generate buzz and get talked about, even when they're not winning.   Look at a guy like Wilco Nienaber, his best accomplishment on one of the big tours is 68th place in the US Open.  Yet he somehow manages to get air time and people talk about him because of how far he hits it.  If he was just a guy who poked it 280, he wouldn't even be a blip on anybody's radar.   Distance is a huge money maker, so I have to think somewhere behind the scenes there's people all over discouraging any real moves.  

 

 

 

 

 

Hitting it that far is akin to an MLB pitcher throwing 105 mph.  They are rare and impressive physical anomalies that most all of us can't even fathom becoming.  Much of the rest of the game of golf is within the physical realm of possibility for us average golfers.  We can learn how to shape the ball, hit out of bunkers, hit a flop etc etc.  We cannot however easily learn to swing 120+ mph, and even if we could, we cannot easily learn to hit the middle of the face nor can we easily learn to control the ball at those speeds.  

 

To me, and to what I honestly think is a vast majority, the long ball is the single most impressive physical capability of any golfer.

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13 hours ago, b.helts said:


Why does any of that change if they roll back the ball?


Arnold Palmer drove the first at Cherry Hills 40 some-odd years ago. 

 

In my opinion the problem isn’t really just distance. There have always been balls that go a long ways. Pinnacle, Top Flite etc. But now you have a ball that goes far and is playable, at the highest level, around the green and out of the rough. So players today have the best of both worlds; a Pinnacle off the tee and a balata around the greens. It takes less skill to hit a top flite far and it takes less skill to chip a balata close than it would if the balls were reversed. 
 

So what we end up with are tournaments that test fewer skills. I would like to see tournaments that test more skills.

 

It is my contention that when the ball is changed, we’ll see a ball speed to spin ratio regulation where you can choose a fast ball or a spinny ball but you can no longer have both. And in the sternest tests, when the rough is up and the greens are firm, we’ll see the skills required to win expand from the player who bombs and gauges most effectively to the player who excels at more facets at the game. 

 

The balata ball should come back and be the ball every pro has to play if there's a goal to roll things back.   The tour guys would adjust for sure without much issue, but man you could really lose a shot with those type of balls.  At the end of the day that would probably be enough to balance things out if you're looking to cut back distance.   On top of it cutting back carry distance, you probably wouldn't see drives rolling 50 yards after landing either.    

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2 hours ago, clevited said:

 

I hear ya.  I get passionate about it because it is a sport I am absolutely obsessed with and I despise beyond anything, objective stupidity infecting the game.  Pretty sure I can prove beyond a doubt that the USGA is objectively stupid and said stupidity is infecting the game.

 

I don't disagree. I've said plenty about the USGA but at this point it's just venting, everyone here knows my thoughts if they've been around a while LOL

 

I think the course lengthening and costs associated thing from Davis was a false flag. 99% of courses don't need to lengthen and if they do it's purely vanity not necessity. The vast majority of golfers can barely handle 6500yds let alone 7500. Saying that pro courses needing to be 7500yds is like comparing the costs of running an NFL stadium to a local football field. It's apples and oranges. Courses like Whistling Straights are high end resorts that charge 500$ a pop, no one's home course is whistling straights. The PGA can play courses like that all year without affecting the thousands of other courses that could sit at 6500-6800 max which they already are

 

All of this is about how the game looks on TV to a specific group of people. Who cares....The NBA pace and space game is VASTLY different than what you see at local gyms or high school ball. Who cares

 

 

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17 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Except, you don't really need to dramatically lengthen courses. Almost no one is talking about doing anything other than fiddling with a few holes on a few courses. As I attempted to point out, there isn't some stampede of golfers going to a 46+ shaft - many have tried them, but ultimately a rare few actually decided to use them, and even they don't use them all the time. They are just too hard to control. 

 

I don't have it in front of me to correctly quote and attribute this but, there was a story, posted here before, where someone within the USGA in the equipment rules realm, didn't bother to limit the CC of drivers at the time because (paraphrasing) "no professional golfer would ever want to use a driver larger than XXX cc."  Well, that didn't age well.  Prior to the governing bodies coming out with the 460 cc limit equipment manufacturers were building larger driver head sizes than whatever number he through out there.

 

My understanding was at the time driver heads were made of steel and suffered from the same issues that a 400+ cc persimmon head would, weight.  In steps titanium and carbon and other high strength/light weight materials and the capabilities shift.

 

USGA was guilty of not anticipating where technology could go.  We already see glimpses of the possibilities of a 48" driver.  Yeah, maybe the current situation is it isn't controllable to the level that it would be useful but do you wait until we get to that point and there is a quick shift to that length or do you just get out in front of it before that can happen?

 

If there aren't many using them, what is the harm in being somewhat pre-emptive?  (Not to mention it is only established as a model local rule that is up to the committee to choose to use or not.  If the PGA Tour chooses to use it the beef should be with them.)

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58 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I don't have it in front of me to correctly quote and attribute this but, there was a story, posted here before, where someone within the USGA in the equipment rules realm, didn't bother to limit the CC of drivers at the time because (paraphrasing) "no professional golfer would ever want to use a driver larger than XXX cc."  Well, that didn't age well.  Prior to the governing bodies coming out with the 460 cc limit equipment manufacturers were building larger driver head sizes than whatever number he through out there.

 

My understanding was at the time driver heads were made of steel and suffered from the same issues that a 400+ cc persimmon head would, weight.  In steps titanium and carbon and other high strength/light weight materials and the capabilities shift.

 

USGA was guilty of not anticipating where technology could go.  We already see glimpses of the possibilities of a 48" driver.  Yeah, maybe the current situation is it isn't controllable to the level that it would be useful but do you wait until we get to that point and there is a quick shift to that length or do you just get out in front of it before that can happen?

 

If there aren't many using them, what is the harm in being somewhat pre-emptive?  (Not to mention it is only established as a model local rule that is up to the committee to choose to use or not.  If the PGA Tour chooses to use it the beef should be with them.)

Was Frank Thomas I believe who said that.  Said it rather flippantly.  That’s the moment that they lost control.  It won’t be returned until the government shows us how to time travel.  Then I’ll go back snd slap some sense into the guy.  😂
 

ill bring him a 907d2 and say “ this abomination must be stopped “!  The sound of that thing will surely cause action !  

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16 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Something like that.

 

I'm someone who doesn't see the need to limit anything.  All the golfers are playing the same course with the same equipment.  Some of them put in a whole lot of time to be better.  

 

The way I think is to let them be better.  Let them hit it farther, let them score lower on longer courses than the golfers of the past.  What does it hurt?  It surely makes the tv experience more exciting.  IMO all of this "we have to limit things" started when Tiger decimated the field almost every time he played.  

 

Watching Bryson drive a par 4 and sink the long eagle putt on the opening hole of the last day of the Ryder Cup was exciting.   

 

The game is already limited.  The driver head size is limited.  The COR of the face is limited.  The initial ball speed is limited, and the overall distance a ball can fly is limited.

 

It is not a question of limiting equipment; it is a question of changing the existing limits.

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1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Was Frank Thomas I believe who said that.  Said it rather flippantly.  That’s the moment that they lost control.  It won’t be returned until the government shows us how to time travel.  Then I’ll go back snd slap some sense into the guy.  😂
 

ill bring him a 907d2 and say “ this abomination must be stopped “!  The sound of that thing will surely cause action !  

You are absolutely correct - it was Frank Thomas, who was head of equipment testing. 

 

With golf shafts becoming better and better, it might have been only a year or two before others put a 47" or 48" driver in play.

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On 10/12/2021 at 4:34 PM, bladehunter said:

Unless any tournament decides to adopt it.  Much like the groove rule.  Many amateur events at the state and county level have used the condition of competition deal to outlaw old grooves. Although if never been physically checked. I did have to turn in a usga test certification before hand for the titleist irons I was playing.  A tour set that’s not on the conforming list.  They tested good.  But I had to do all that and then show it to the committee or else risk being checked randomly and being DQed.  This was just for the usga  mid am qualifier.  
 

so yes.  It effects a lot of amateurs.  If you intend to play 46 or less in events. You’re going to play 46 or less all year.  

Yep and I remember the issue on the Vega irons too

 

Bad thing was I had a glimmer of hope for the USGA when they hired Michael Whan then they do this stupid mess.

What the bad thing is anyhow under the "Local Rule" clause that existed a comittee could have instated any local rule it deemed fit for that event and could have had the driver length clause.

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1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

I don't have it in front of me to correctly quote and attribute this but, there was a story, posted here before, where someone within the USGA in the equipment rules realm, didn't bother to limit the CC of drivers at the time because (paraphrasing) "no professional golfer would ever want to use a driver larger than XXX cc."  Well, that didn't age well.  Prior to the governing bodies coming out with the 460 cc limit equipment manufacturers were building larger driver head sizes than whatever number he through out there.

 

My understanding was at the time driver heads were made of steel and suffered from the same issues that a 400+ cc persimmon head would, weight.  In steps titanium and carbon and other high strength/light weight materials and the capabilities shift.

 

USGA was guilty of not anticipating where technology could go.  We already see glimpses of the possibilities of a 48" driver.  Yeah, maybe the current situation is it isn't controllable to the level that it would be useful but do you wait until we get to that point and there is a quick shift to that length or do you just get out in front of it before that can happen?

 

If there aren't many using them, what is the harm in being somewhat pre-emptive?  (Not to mention it is only established as a model local rule that is up to the committee to choose to use or not.  If the PGA Tour chooses to use it the beef should be with them.)

You seem to be suggesting the USGA and R&A, who want to be the de facto ruling bodies for all of golf, made a rule they should have no accountability for.  So it goes like this, eh?:  "We, the ruling bodies hereby make a rule but if you choose to use it, we won't be held accountable for said use, even though we are the ones who authorized it under the rules of golf."  What a cop out.  And some here are suggesting the rule doesn't even matter because it won't impact very many golfers.  So now the ruling bodies are making meaningless rules that they have no accountability for?  That makes zero sense.

 

It absolutely amazes me how many don't realize how this undercuts their own credibility as the ruling bodies and as keepers of the game of golf.

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1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

What the bad thing is anyhow under the "Local Rule" clause that existed a comittee could have instated any local rule it deemed fit for that event and could have had the driver length clause.

Sorry, but the authority for a Committee to enact Local Rules is pretty limited.  In this case, they would not be allowed to enforce a penalty for something that is expressly allowed under the Rules of Golf (like playing a 48" driver) unless there is an approved Model Local Rule.  Similarly, the Masters would not have been allowed to enact a Local Rule to assess a penalty for a putt that strikes the flagstick in the hole, which was discussed at length after the rule changes in 2019.

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On 10/12/2021 at 10:01 AM, bobfoster said:

The USGA has way too much time on its hands. Why create a rule that at best affects a mere handful of people? What's the purpose?

 

Plus - if someone actually wants to play a shaft that long - good luck to them. I tried a 47.5 a few years ago (have a friend who is about 6'6" - he just uses a shaft that is comfortable to him). I did, indeed, hit it longer. One drive probably went 325 yards in the air. Problem was that the 325 was 250 yards straight, and 75 yards to the right. It did land on the fairway, just not the fairway I was teeing off on. Never could wrestle that beast under control.

 

Phil does hit his drives fairly long for an old guy, but his accuracy leaves something to be desired. It is a trade-off. But if it is a trade-off he wants to make, I don't get why the USGA would want to stop him (or anyone else). 

 

exactly, they made a rule for no problem that exists.

 

 After understanding the feedback received from the golf manufacturing community, we also undertook a survey of usage of clubs in use across the PGA Tour, PGA Tour Champions and the Korn Ferry Tour and found that a very small number of players either have used or are currently using clubs greater than 46 inches,” the statement read

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29 minutes ago, NMBob said:

 

exactly, they made a rule for no problem that exists.

 

 After understanding the feedback received from the golf manufacturing community, we also undertook a survey of usage of clubs in use across the PGA Tour, PGA Tour Champions and the Korn Ferry Tour and found that a very small number of players either have used or are currently using clubs greater than 46 inches,” the statement read


That’s the point!! They failed to get out in front of the bigger drivers and hamstrung themselves. People complain that they weren’t forward thinking enough. 
 

Now they get out in front of this, and people complain they are fixing a problem that doesn’t exist.  Well, it doesn’t exist, yet…..

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I understand that shaft length at 46 " max

is just the beginning. Also on the horizon, are new set of rules for testing clubhead spring board effects, and a new ball conforming rules that will basically make the current equipment and balls non conforming. Nothing good will come from the USGA and R&A ruling bodies, except higher prices  for all these changes for most golfers.

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12 hours ago, davep043 said:

Sorry, but the authority for a Committee to enact Local Rules is pretty limited.  In this case, they would not be allowed to enforce a penalty for something that is expressly allowed under the Rules of Golf (like playing a 48" driver) unless there is an approved Model Local Rule.  Similarly, the Masters would not have been allowed to enact a Local Rule to assess a penalty for a putt that strikes the flagstick in the hole, which was discussed at length after the rule changes in 2019.

Where I got that from is down here----- When the anchoring ban went into effect most of the courses down here their league rule committes voted to disregard the anchor ban in league and club stipulated events. I know also the CGA down here was exploring to disregard the anchor ban too in the Senior divisions but I do not think that came to anything.

 

On the approved model rule that can be broad---- If the USGA has to approve then the point about a local rule becomes moot----- Around here the "USGA Member" courses were catching flack from the USGA over their local rule on Anchoring. Several courses dropped as member courses and one private exclusive course here basically told the USGA where to shove it.------- Yep I have said it for years and will say it again there are many loopholes in the rules of golf and it could take a team of Philidelphia lawyers to argue it. 

 

I know the COC on the groove rules caused some contention too. Many did not understand that the rules were extended for AMs to I think 2022 for complience. But the CGA which is strictly Amateur decided under the guise of being a "Elite Group" adopted them when the PGA Tour and USGA did for elite events. I was going to get my Am status back and play some events. On top of getting my AM status back my Mac irons I love to play had to be tested and approved and my beloved 588s were suddenly non conforming----- I basically said screw it for hassle involved. Basically I do my own thing as a majority of other golfers do and say screw the USGA and I am having more fun in golf than I have ever had. 

Edited by BIG STU

Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* Stock steel R wedge shaft

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag old school Burton Mini Staff non demonational no advertising

 

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13 hours ago, oikos1 said:

You seem to be suggesting the USGA and R&A, who want to be the de facto ruling bodies for all of golf, made a rule they should have no accountability for.  So it goes like this, eh?:  "We, the ruling bodies hereby make a rule but if you choose to use it, we won't be held accountable for said use, even though we are the ones who authorized it under the rules of golf."  What a cop out.  And some here are suggesting the rule doesn't even matter because it won't impact very many golfers.  So now the ruling bodies are making meaningless rules that they have no accountability for?  That makes zero sense.

 

It absolutely amazes me how many don't realize how this undercuts their own credibility as the ruling bodies and as keepers of the game of golf.

IMHO The USGA and the R&A lost credibility a long time ago

Driver--- TM M-6 Evenflow 65gm R set to 9.5

3W  TM V-Steel 15* bent to 14 NVS green Aldila 65gr R

7W TM V-steel 21* Ust Pro Force Gold 65 R

Irons 5 thru PW 2016 TM TP CBs--- Steelfiber 95 R shafts

GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* Stock steel R wedge shaft

SW Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind -- Modified grind to 10* KBS Wedge shaft

Putter Rusty Scotty Sante Fe Fluted Bullseye shaft--- No it aint going no where

Bag old school Burton Mini Staff non demonational no advertising

 

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17 hours ago, oikos1 said:

You seem to be suggesting the USGA and R&A, who want to be the de facto ruling bodies for all of golf, made a rule they should have no accountability for.  So it goes like this, eh?:  "We, the ruling bodies hereby make a rule but if you choose to use it, we won't be held accountable for said use, even though we are the ones who authorized it under the rules of golf."  What a cop out.  And some here are suggesting the rule doesn't even matter because it won't impact very many golfers.  So now the ruling bodies are making meaningless rules that they have no accountability for?  That makes zero sense.

 

It absolutely amazes me how many don't realize how this undercuts their own credibility as the ruling bodies and as keepers of the game of golf.

 

I don't know that they have no accountability for it.  It is just a model rule.  They can or cannot be adopted by a committee.  There are others.  This one might be the first regarding equipment though.  I don't know that they didn't consult the PGA Tour.  Does anyone at this point in time?  They may have requested it.  They have certainly adopted it, and appears to me pretty quickly and in mid season for them.  That seems telling to an extent to me.

 

What sort of accountability would you expect them to have?  What sort of negative ramifications of its adoption to you foresee that they should be held responsible/accountable for.

 

This seems akin to the government asking auto manufacturers to not build cars for street use capable of going more than 175mph.  My truck's speedometer tops out at 115 I think.  I've never had it above 85.  That rule doesn't impact me in the least and very few other people.  

 

.......

I don't see this as a bad move.  I don't see this as a good move.  I agree it has little immediate impact.  That is the point though.  Enact the flexibility to have the rule before it has a negative impact.

 

Letting equipment get to the point it has, in my opinion, has equally undercut their credibility.  Especially when they are now vocal about rolling back the effects of the equipment they let get out of hand.

 

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it just occured to me--knowing Phil he'll probably bring out a 48 inch driver next season and use it for lag putting or something, and just call it a "putter" LOL

 

That would be a classic Phil thing

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Cobra Radspeed XB 9 w/PX Hzrdus RDX Smoke Black 80

Cobra F9 tour 13 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 70

Titleist TS3 20 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 80

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1 hour ago, smashdn said:

I don't know that they didn't consult the PGA Tour.  Does anyone at this point in time?  They may have requested it.  They have certainly adopted it, and appears to me pretty quickly and in mid season for them.  That seems telling to an extent to me.

The consideration for this MLR began in 2016, was formally re-introduced in February, 2021, with a comment period that extended to May.  "Stakeholders" have been invited to contribute throughout the entire Distance Insights process, although I've never read anything that indicates what any of the stakeholders (including PGA Tours) have said about the proposal.  I agree with you, the relatively quick response by the PGA Tour indicates to me that they're on board with the adoption of this MLR for their competitions.  You can read about the current measures being studied here:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2021/02/distance-golf-equipment-research-topics-areas-interest-usga-randa.html

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9 minutes ago, davep043 said:

The consideration for this MLR began in 2016, was formally re-introduced in February, 2021, with a comment period that extended to May.  "Stakeholders" have been invited to contribute throughout the entire Distance Insights process, although I've never read anything that indicates what any of the stakeholders (including PGA Tours) have said about the proposal.  I agree with you, the relatively quick response by the PGA Tour indicates to me that they're on board with the adoption of this MLR for their competitions.  You can read about the current measures being studied here:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2021/02/distance-golf-equipment-research-topics-areas-interest-usga-randa.html

Thank you for the link, I could not get it posted in my comment above, 

But as all can see, there are three proposals, its more than just driver length.

 

 

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