46 Inch + Drivers on Tour

[oikos1]

2 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

This is just Smash reading between the lines but I have to think that at some level the PGA Tour asked for this.  Reason I say that is A) they were consulted and B) they came out rather quickly that they were going to adopt the model local rule and C) they did so in the middle of their season.  One more between the lines inference is that the PGA Tour must believe this does not affect much of their members as they are basically giving them only 3 months before the effective date. 

 

Regarding your second statement I quoted there, they didn't change the rules for all golfers, they made it possible for a committee to adopt a rule that would apply to event(s).  Just like the E-5 model local rule.  PGA Tour hasn't adopted it but your club lad-lassie may.

So you agree.  The ruling bodies made a rule for the PGA Tour.  The game needs less rules and it is rather disheartening to see the ruling bodies use rules in this way.  Let the PGA Tour regulate distance through course set up.  Losing a shot or two for taking risks (and conversely gaining a shot or two if successful) adds up pretty quickly over a four day tournament and would deal with the distance issue fairly.

 

Less should be more when it comes to the rules of golf.

[QuigleyDU]

While I think 46 is really the max practical length for a driver and there is only a very small percentage of golfers that play anything longer than that in competition. 
 

I think it is silly. 

[Titleist99]

Well, I remember people saying that the 460cc driver will never catch on....It was to darn BIG!

 

You never know.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Titleist99

[clevited]

10 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Well, I remember people saying that the 460cc driver will never catch on....It was to darn BIG!

 

You never know.

 

Even if 48 inch drivers caught on, it was an existing rule, a limit set in place.  Plus 48 inches was a reasonable length for even the tallest of player from what I have looked into.  Even if 48 inch drivers caught on, they are still less accurate and always will be.  Then again, if a player does adopt a 48 inch driver and manages to hit it accurately enough to get around a pga tour course and win, more power to them.  That is a talent most will never ever have.

[smashdn]

On 10/19/2021 at 1:19 PM, oikos1 said:

So you agree.  The ruling bodies made a rule for the PGA Tour.  The game needs less rules and it is rather disheartening to see the ruling bodies use rules in this way.  Let the PGA Tour regulate distance through course set up.  Losing a shot or two for taking risks (and conversely gaining a shot or two if successful) adds up pretty quickly over a four day tournament and would deal with the distance issue fairly.

 

Less should be more when it comes to the rules of golf.

 

Is the first part a question or a statement?  I see a period so I am going to go with statement.  In that case, no I am not in agreement with what I responded to, which was your assertion that distance is only a problem on the PGA Tour.

 

If the first part is an interrogative asking if I agree with your second statement then my answer is, yes, they made a rule for the PGA Tour.  And then add in, they made it for the PGA Tour, and any other tournament committee who would like the leeway to enact the rule (or a similar rule utilizing all or part of the language in the model local rule).  This could be the USGA in it's tournaments, NCAA, NAIA, your state golf association or local club.  Any committee can no choose to use or not use the rule.

 

If you think a model local rule is "disheartening" maybe you don't understand model local rues and how they can and cannot be used by a committee?  It is just an option at their disposal now where once it was not.

Edited October 21, 2021 by smashdn

[Shilgy]

On 10/19/2021 at 11:19 AM, oikos1 said:

So you agree.  The ruling bodies made a rule for the PGA Tour.  The game needs less rules and it is rather disheartening to see the ruling bodies use rules in this way.  Let the PGA Tour regulate distance through course set up.  Losing a shot or two for taking risks (and conversely gaining a shot or two if successful) adds up pretty quickly over a four day tournament and would deal with the distance issue fairly.

 

Less should be more when it comes to the rules of golf.

Few courses desire to have their course virtually unplayable in the month leading up to the event.  I was a member at the Ping owned venue of the LPGA event here in Phoenix.  Even for the ladies tour the rough was virtually unplayable for a few weeks prior.  They would quit cutting the rough at all for a few weeks and the when the LPGA officials came in the week before they would tell the super what height to cut the rough.  That method gave them a more uniform length.  
 

Might have been nice for the event but it was beyond US Open rough for the last couple weeks of member play.

 

I can only imagine mens setups might be way more penal.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Shilgy

[bekgolf]

35 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

 

Might have been nice for the event but it was beyond US Open rough for the last couple weeks of member play.

 

I can only imagine mens setups might be eBay more penal.

 

That eBay rough is the worst!

[Shilgy]

58 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

That eBay rough is the worst!

Flippin’ spell check.  What I get for being in a hurry.

 

Now changed to “way” more penal as intended.

 

Thanks!

[oikos1]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Few courses desire to have their course virtually unplayable in the month leading up to the event.  I was a member at the Ping owned venue of the LPGA event here in Phoenix.  Even for the ladies tour the rough was virtually unplayable for a few weeks prior.  They would quit cutting the rough at all for a few weeks and the when the LPGA officials came in the week before they would tell the super what height to cut the rough.  That method gave them a more uniform length.  
 

Might have been nice for the event but it was beyond US Open rough for the last couple weeks of member play.

 

I can only imagine mens setups might be way more penal.

I thought most courses should expect a one to six month delay in play prior to, and post, hosting a PGA Tour event depending on the host site.  I doubt the privilege and prestige of hosting a PGA Tour event bothers the majority of membership to such an extent.

[Shilgy]

23 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

I thought most courses should expect a one to six month delay in play prior to, and post, hosting a PGA Tour event depending on the host site.  I doubt the privilege and prestige of hosting a PGA Tour event bothers the majority of membership to such an extent.

So a course that hosts an annual event should expect up to six months of crap for prestige?  Instead of, oh I don’t know, actually being able to play the course they pay for?

 

Cmon man!  There are probably a few members at any club that feel that way. Guys that belong to multiple courses and use the prestigious course for bragging rights and or business purposes.  But most of the members?  Not for an annual event.  Perhaps the clubs that host a major or Ryder Cup feel that way but not annual event hosts.

 

For a PGA Tour event I could see up to six weeks or so including healing time after.  But I would bet many members grumble at that.  Having your course torn up by  grandstands and the lowly riff raff traipsing around their course for a week?

[oikos1]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

So a course that hosts an annual event should expect up to six months of crap for prestige?  Instead of, oh I don’t know, actually being able to play the course they pay for?

 

Cmon man!  There are probably a few members at any club that feel that way. Guys that belong to multiple courses and use the prestigious course for bragging rights and or business purposes.  But most of the members?  Not for an annual event.  Perhaps the clubs that host a major or Ryder Cup feel that way but not annual event hosts.

 

For a PGA Tour event I could see up to six weeks or so including healing time after.  But I would bet many members grumble at that.  Having your course torn up by  grandstands and the lowly riff raff traipsing around their course for a week?

Well, six weeks fits within 1-6 months now doesn't it?  I'm sure it's a range.  The point is still the same.  Courses are changed and prepped all of the time for a PGA Tour event.  One month prep prior to the event, which you stated, is no big deal.  And neither is growing the rough out.  You c'mon, man! 😀

[Shilgy]

39 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Well, six weeks fits within 1-6 months now doesn't it?  I'm sure it's a range.  The point is still the same.  Courses are changed and prepped all of the time for a PGA Tour event.  One month prep prior to the event, which you stated, is no big deal.  And neither is growing the rough out.  You c'mon, man! 😀

One month total with little loss of playing time is not extreme….but six months would be nearly the whole season for many parts of the country.

[clevited]

13 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Flippin’ spell check.  What I get for being in a hurry.

 

Now changed to “way” more penal as intended.

 

Thanks!

 

Kudos to you for not doing my favorite wrx typo, "penile".  

[oikos1]

On 10/21/2021 at 11:08 PM, Shilgy said:

One month total with little loss of playing time is not extreme….but six months would be nearly the whole season for many parts of the country.

So what you are arguing for at this point? 

On 10/21/2021 at 4:04 PM, Shilgy said:

Few courses desire to have their course virtually unplayable in the month leading up to the event.  I was a member at the Ping owned venue of the LPGA event here in Phoenix.  Even for the ladies tour the rough was virtually unplayable for a few weeks prior.  They would quit cutting the rough at all for a few weeks and the when the LPGA officials came in the week before they would tell the super what height to cut the rough.  That method gave them a more uniform length.  
 

Might have been nice for the event but it was beyond US Open rough for the last couple weeks of member play.

 

I can only imagine mens setups might be way more penal.

 

[Shilgy]

7 hours ago, oikos1 said:

So what you are arguing for at this point? 

 

Sorry, forgot who I was discussing with…never mind.

[bobfoster]

On 10/22/2021 at 12:08 AM, Shilgy said:

One month total with little loss of playing time is not extreme….but six months would be nearly the whole season for many parts of the country.

Where in the world does six months come from? That just isn't reality. Maybe a month preparation beforehand, mostly to grow the rough out, speed up the greens a couple weeks in advance. Distance doesn't affect daily playing - the back tees may be extended (or temporarily added), but the whites will still be the same distance. Maybe two or three weeks recovery time afterwards to account for the crowds stomping down the outsides of the fairways, but even that doesn't really render the course unplayable to members - just slightly more irritating to some if you miss the fairway. In fact, I have friends that have played courses the week after PGA tourneys and actually kind of dig the thought that they are playing a ridiculously hard set-up.

 

I know of no course that would take itself out of play for members/guests, or other golfers (if it is a public course) for any more than a month or so just to host a tournament. Inconveniencing everyday golfers for a month is well worth the status of hosting a PGA event. Some courses will close for a week or two beforehand just to make certain the fairways and greens are pristine, but other than that the courses are still completely playable, just a little more difficult.

 

Six months? That's a straw man - has not, and would not ever happen. No course would host a tournament. Lots of courses close for several months a year. Augusta is never open in the summer, it is a fall/winter/spring course (no one wants to play in 95* heat with 95% humidity). A lot of northern courses close December through April (few people want to play when it is 20* and snowing). No course would take itself even slightly out of play for more than a handful of weeks in their peak seasons. 

 

I mean, c'mon. 

[oikos1]

5 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Sorry, forgot who I was discussing with…never mind.

You're not even going to address the question?  Those are your words.  If not, fair enough.

[oikos1]

1 hour ago, bobfoster said:

Where in the world does six months come from? That just isn't reality. Maybe a month preparation beforehand, mostly to grow the rough out, speed up the greens a couple weeks in advance. Distance doesn't affect daily playing - the back tees may be extended (or temporarily added), but the whites will still be the same distance. Maybe two or three weeks recovery time afterwards to account for the crowds stomping down the outsides of the fairways, but even that doesn't really render the course unplayable to members - just slightly more irritating to some if you miss the fairway. In fact, I have friends that have played courses the week after PGA tourneys and actually kind of dig the thought that they are playing a ridiculously hard set-up.

 

I know of no course that would take itself out of play for members/guests, or other golfers (if it is a public course) for any more than a month or so just to host a tournament. Inconveniencing everyday golfers for a month is well worth the status of hosting a PGA event. Some courses will close for a week or two beforehand just to make certain the fairways and greens are pristine, but other than that the courses are still completely playable, just a little more difficult.

 

Six months? That's a straw man - has not, and would not ever happen. No course would host a tournament. Lots of courses close for several months a year. Augusta is never open in the summer, it is a fall/winter/spring course (no one wants to play in 95* heat with 95% humidity). A lot of northern courses close December through April (few people want to play when it is 20* and snowing). No course would take itself even slightly out of play for more than a handful of weeks in their peak seasons. 

 

I mean, c'mon. 

What are you talking about?

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/428302/what-it-takes-to-set-up-a-golf-course-for-a-tour-event/

 

"Over the last few months we have carried out extensive work to the 10th and 14th holes, including reshaping the 10th green and redefining the 14th hole making it into a dog-leg by moving the entire teeing complex."

 

"Over the past few years we have put in seven new championship tees, all to R&A specified guidelines."

[smashdn]

Ahead of the Ryder Cup Valhalla played temporary tees and greens.  I was on course in December of 2007 and saw it.  The Ryder Cup there was in September of 2008.

 

Do the math on months for that.

[Shilgy]

10 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Where in the world does six months come from? That just isn't reality. Maybe a month preparation beforehand, mostly to grow the rough out, speed up the greens a couple weeks in advance. Distance doesn't affect daily playing - the back tees may be extended (or temporarily added), but the whites will still be the same distance. Maybe two or three weeks recovery time afterwards to account for the crowds stomping down the outsides of the fairways, but even that doesn't really render the course unplayable to members - just slightly more irritating to some if you miss the fairway. In fact, I have friends that have played courses the week after PGA tourneys and actually kind of dig the thought that they are playing a ridiculously hard set-up.

 

I know of no course that would take itself out of play for members/guests, or other golfers (if it is a public course) for any more than a month or so just to host a tournament. Inconveniencing everyday golfers for a month is well worth the status of hosting a PGA event. Some courses will close for a week or two beforehand just to make certain the fairways and greens are pristine, but other than that the courses are still completely playable, just a little more difficult.

 

Six months? That's a straw man - has not, and would not ever happen. No course would host a tournament. Lots of courses close for several months a year. Augusta is never open in the summer, it is a fall/winter/spring course (no one wants to play in 95* heat with 95% humidity). A lot of northern courses close December through April (few people want to play when it is 20* and snowing). No course would take itself even slightly out of play for more than a handful of weeks in their peak seasons. 

 

I mean, c'mon. 

He’s seems to be referring to clubs that make massive changes to the course in order to get an event…or perhaps even keep an event.  For a regular tour event they will begin prep roughly a month before, maybe two if you include erecting grandstands as course prep. 

[oikos1]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

He’s seems to be referring to clubs that make massive changes to the course in order to get an event…or perhaps even keep an event.  For a regular tour event they will begin prep roughly a month before, maybe two if you include erecting grandstands as course prep. 

To clear things up Shilgy, the 1-6 months was an estimate (a possible range of what a membership could expect, which has since been proven to be true) in reply to your statement:  "Few courses desire to have their course virtually unplayable in the month leading up to the event", which was your response to what I said:   "Let the PGA Tour regulate distance through course set up".  You then later said in another post: "One month total with little loss of playing time is not extreme".  Those appeared to be conflicting statements, hence my question to you.

 

So I'll ask the question another way.  And let's toss out the 1-6 months, which again has already been shown to be true, and use your example of six weeks.

 

Do you agree or disagree that while temporarily inconvenient, most club memberships would not be bothered with a delay or disruption of play of up to six weeks, in order for the PGA Tour to make adjustments and preparations to the course prior to the event which could include regulating distance through course set up, for the honor and prestige of hosting a PGA Tour tournament?

 

 

[bobfoster]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

He’s seems to be referring to clubs that make massive changes to the course in order to get an event…or perhaps even keep an event.  For a regular tour event they will begin prep roughly a month before, maybe two if you include erecting grandstands as course prep. 

Yes ... there are a few clubs that make major changes. Mostly the ones that are new to the Tour, and win the opportunity to host by negotiating changes with the PGA. And yes, some members may be inconvenienced for a few weeks - temporary tees or greens or etc. (something that periodically happens on courses even if they aren't hosting anything) - but that is very different than having a course be unplayable. 

 

No course would takes itself out of commission for six months just to host a PGA event. It would be financial suicide.

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, bobfoster said:

No course would takes itself out of commission for six months just to host a PGA event. It would be financial suicide.

 

Unless you just pass the financial implications onto the taxpayers.

 

https://bernews.com/2015/05/pac-meets-port-royal/