Low tee height feels like a normal swing, with better contact. Why?

[RoyalMustang]

Tonight at the range, I was hitting my fairway woods really well, but struggling with my driver. For kicks, I teed up on the fairway wood's tee (basically just above the ground, maybe 1/4" up) and made some swings. Each one was super solid; low in loft but square in the face and hit hard.  Then I hit some driver fairway swings. Again, super solid, easy feeling swings with decent launch.  I went back to the normal tee height of bottom of ball at the top of the crown.  I was crazy wild again.  It went from feeling fluid and natural to "forced". I dropped the tee and voila, my natural, rhythmic swing was back.  

 

Hitting the ball w/o really any tee height just felt natural, like every other swing with every other club in my bag.  With a ball teed up high, I always feel like I have to do manipulations to hit the ball well.  It isn't my swing. My hips aren't opening the same way. 

 

How is a driver swing different than a regular swing?  Should I just drop to a low tee height to play a more normal swing that generates less than ideal launch but higher swing speed?  I can get my hips easily clear with my fairway woods but not as easily with my driver.  On the launch monitor, I was 162 driver and 154 with my 4 wood, which tells you that I am more fluid with a fairway wood swing.  

 

There must be some tricks that I am missing, right?  

[tthomasgolfer605]

I have a 360cc head with a flatter lie for that exact reason. 

[Precis1on]

The visual and perception to “hit up” on a ball teed up high messes with golf swings. 

[sprcoop]

13 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Tonight at the range, I was hitting my fairway woods really well, but struggling with my driver. For kicks, I teed up on the fairway wood's tee (basically just above the ground, maybe 1/4" up) and made some swings. Each one was super solid; low in loft but square in the face and hit hard.  Then I hit some driver fairway swings. Again, super solid, easy feeling swings with decent launch.  I went back to the normal tee height of bottom of ball at the top of the crown.  I was crazy wild again.  It went from feeling fluid and natural to "forced". I dropped the tee and voila, my natural, rhythmic swing was back.  

 

Hitting the ball w/o really any tee height just felt natural, like every other swing with every other club in my bag.  With a ball teed up high, I always feel like I have to do manipulations to hit the ball well.  It isn't my swing. My hips aren't opening the same way. 

 

How is a driver swing different than a regular swing?  Should I just drop to a low tee height to play a more normal swing that generates less than ideal launch but higher swing speed?  I can get my hips easily clear with my fairway woods but not as easily with my driver.  On the launch monitor, I was 162 driver and 154 with my 4 wood, which tells you that I am more fluid with a fairway wood swing.  

 

There must be some tricks that I am missing, right?  

Maybe it was a mis-type but that is crazy high.  Try equator of ball at top of crown.

[Krt22]

4 hours ago, Precis1on said:

The visual and perception to “hit up” on a ball teed up high messes with golf swings. 

This. 

 

13 minutes ago, sprcoop said:

Maybe it was a mis-type but that is crazy high.  Try equator of ball at top of crown.

+1

[RoyalMustang]

4 hours ago, Precis1on said:

The visual and perception to “hit up” on a ball teed up high messes with golf swings. 

 

I agree, but my normal swing is flat with ground contact, and the driver sits upward; if I were to contact the ground, I would be completely under the ball, right?  Don't I need to hit up somewhat?  Last night I watched a video and it was basically "angle the spine back, load the back foot, hit upward"  I can't hit upward with a normal, balanced swing. 

 

At this point I am thinking that I either:

1) tee the ball lower and use a normal swing or 

2) tee the ball up, learn a different driver swing "to hit up" and hope it works.  In watching Justin Rose, I don't see a huge difference in shoulder tilt on the tee box with a driver vs an iron.  Slightly wider stance, yes, but everything else looks pretty similar. How then, is he creating that upward motion?  

[jholz]

11 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I agree, but my normal swing is flat with ground contact, and the driver sits upward; if I were to contact the ground, I would be completely under the ball, right?  Don't I need to hit up somewhat?  Last night I watched a video and it was basically "angle the spine back, load the back foot, hit upward"  I can't hit upward with a normal, balanced swing. 

 

At this point I am thinking that I either:

1) tee the ball lower and use a normal swing or 

2) tee the ball up, learn a different driver swing "to hit up" and hope it works.  In watching Justin Rose, I don't see a huge difference in shoulder tilt on the tee box with a driver vs an iron.  Slightly wider stance, yes, but everything else looks pretty similar. How then, is he creating that upward motion?  

 

Players hit up on the ball with Driver by placing the ball farther forward in their stance, thereby making contact at a point in the swing arc where the clubhead is moving upward. 

 

You don't have to "hit up." Ball placement does it for you. 

[RoyalMustang]

1 minute ago, jholz said:

 

Players hit up on the ball with Driver by placing the ball farther forward in their stance, thereby making contact at a point in the swing arc where the clubhead is moving upward. 

 

You don't have to "hit up." Ball placement does it for you. 

 

I see-so that is a misnomer.  Basically it is as if I am swinging toward a normal 5-iron placement and the club is tracking up by the time it comes to the ball in a driver setup.   I just need to keep the club "down the line" to maintain the same path, right? 

 

Does anyone set up like a normal 5-iron and just swing for that point as a drill, rather than directing the swing to the front foot?  

 

It doesn't help that I have a pretty steep swing when I am trying to maintain direction and height down the line.  Literally only my driver is the issue though.  

[Precis1on]

22 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

At this point I am thinking that I either:

1) tee the ball lower and use a normal swing or 

2) tee the ball up, learn a different driver swing "to hit up" and hope it works.  In watching Justin Rose, I don't see a huge difference in shoulder tilt on the tee box with a driver vs an iron.  Slightly wider stance, yes, but everything else looks pretty similar. How then, is he creating that upward motion?  

 

Option 1 is correct. Maybe not as low as you indicated in your original post, but right where the sweet spot sits should be good starting point. A forward ball position with your normal swing should put the ball at the right point in your swing arc. 

 

Tour average with driver is 1-2 degrees down at impact. Rose is up 3-4, but he's not doing anything special nor does he have a special swing to do so. Ball position and minor shoulder tilt is enough to create that differential. 

 

4 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

It doesn't help that I have a pretty steep swing when I am trying to maintain direction and height down the line.  Literally only my driver is the issue though.  

 

If you're in the process of addressing this issue, Driver will be the last club to fall in line. 

[jholz]

2 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I see-so that is a misnomer.  Basically it is as if I am swinging toward a normal 5-iron placement and the club is tracking up by the time it comes to the ball in a driver setup.   I just need to keep the club "down the line" to maintain the same path, right? 

 

Does anyone set up like a normal 5-iron and just swing for that point as a drill, rather than directing the swing to the front foot?  

 

It doesn't help that I have a pretty steep swing when I am trying to maintain direction and height down the line.  Literally only my driver is the issue though.  

 

It might just be me, but I don't like the idea of trying to "direct" a swing to a certain point. That tends to lead to bad results. 

 

The swing happens. The ball gets in the way. 

 

 

[br61]

30 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

1) tee the ball lower and use a normal swing or 

 

I wouldn't worry too much if you find that you're hitting your drives better this way and stay with it. I tee it little lower than others and I'm very comfortable with it, often do not miss fairways.

Edited October 13, 2021 by br61

[nitram]

So take and measure (with a ruler) the center of your driver's club face from the ground. Now take that measurement and add 1mm. Now take this total measurement and place your ball on a tee in the ground and adjust the ball height until the equator of the ball is at this measurement. Now go hit some tee balls with foot spray on your driver's face and pay attention to impact location, especially up and down. Adjust from there until you're hitting it dead center with the launch you're after.

[Krt22]

23 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I agree, but my normal swing is flat with ground contact, and the driver sits upward; if I were to contact the ground, I would be completely under the ball, right?  Don't I need to hit up somewhat?  Last night I watched a video and it was basically "angle the spine back, load the back foot, hit upward"  I can't hit upward with a normal, balanced swing. 

 

At this point I am thinking that I either:

1) tee the ball lower and use a normal swing or 

2) tee the ball up, learn a different driver swing "to hit up" and hope it works.  In watching Justin Rose, I don't see a huge difference in shoulder tilt on the tee box with a driver vs an iron.  Slightly wider stance, yes, but everything else looks pretty similar. How then, is he creating that upward motion?  

This is your issue, you are attempting to hit up on it and teeing the ball excessively high as well. To answer your question, no you really don't need to hit up on it, especially with modern drivers that can launch the ball high with low spin. Don't play the ball any more forward than inside your lead heal, don't tee it excessively high, and make sure you still get to your lead side before impact.

 

If you can learn to shallow the shaft correctly, the tee height and ball position largely take care of all the "up". If you are excessively tilting and not getting pressure to your lead side, contact is always going to be poor because you have to pull the club through impact to get the club back to the ball

[naj959]

Put the ball on the sweetspot, simple as that. If that means teeing it lower, than do that. Your swing will dictate the best ball position and height. Having the ball way above the crown is such a fallacy in my opinion. I tee my ball up so maybe a 1/4 of the ball is above the crown. That's where my swing naturally bottoms out for a level approach into the ball.

[BrianMcG]

Are you keeping the ball in the same position, just with a higher tee?  That would be your problem. 
 

If the tee goes higher, the ball needs to move further forward in your stance. 

[Barfolomew]

Great topic... been thinking this week that I want to experiment with a low T...... oh 5hit maybe I have low T!

 

I built a 42" driver that I've been lovin cause very controllable and I tried hittin of the turf a bunch of times and love it for low scuds.... so thought what if I tee it up a smidge for a longer 3W type shot.

 

Also thought I can Tee it up high for the high power fade Bomb but can Tee it lower for a straighter or draw drive into the wind.... I must experiment!!!

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

Thanks for the tip!  I played the 9-hole exec course yesterday (which has 3 shortish par 4's, all just beyond drivable at 330-340 yards), and it was empty, so I took extra swings with crap balls.  The lower tee did help: roughly 1/2 of the ball above the crown of the club.  I also moved the tee slightly forward in my stance.  Most importantly, to stay on plane, I had to be more active in clearing my left hip early and staying behind the ball; I really noticed this as it helped to sync the hips and keep the hands where they should be, flattening the swing and keeping me down the line.  The results were great: I hit 12 balls and 9 were in the fairway, with the other 3 being playable.  Good ball speed and trajectory as well given that I was swinging a Ventus 7X; distance anywhere between 270 and 305.  I am mostly after accuracy at this point with "easy" effort swings and not the "murder the ball" effort that I like to swing with, although the "perceived 75% effort" is more like a 5mph clubhead reduction.  It just feels like 20%!  

 

It is still crazy though that on one hole, I played my actual shot and crushed my 6W at 255 with high trajectory. I then hit a really good drive and only added 35 yards.  So there is probably more to be gained from a driving standpoint, even if I can't unlock it.

 

I do think it was a ball position issue, but the deeper issue is my swing and getting steep with my hands.  The ball out front a bit more forces me to make a better swing, stay down and behind while letting the hips clear first and build power.  If I do that, I am in the fairway most of the time and not complaining about distance.  

[byoshio82]

I would get out the foot spray and do some testing on tee height. I have found a lower tee height helps me be more accurate and less erratic. Also why i rarely use a tee with fairway woods, hybrids or irons/wedges on par 3's. For whatever reason my contact is better this way. I have some 2-3/4 tee's that have a mark on them that sets the ball at a perfect height for my driver so I literally don't have to think about it. Stick the tee in the ground level to that mark and off we go. 

[dsmil]

I think the issue is that for some of us, hitting level to slightly down on the driver feels the most natural to us and therefore teeing it lower feels better.  I would love to hit up on the ball but my natural swing doesn't do this, and teeing it high just doesn't feel right.  Sometimes I feel like tee height should be dictated by our natural tendencies rather than a chase to find the perfect angle of attack.

[Tax77]

I tee it low, top of the ball is top of the crown. Always hit the middle vertically, horizontal is a different story. Have my ping set  flat, loft it to open. It just works for me.

[rwc356]

I actually tee the ball higher on the first couple of drives. I've found I tend to hit those early drives low on the club face (guess I need to warm up longer). By the third drive I'm back to a mid tee height (top of ball about 1/2 above crown). When I am having rough day with the driver I do lower the ball to where its level with top of crown - this seems to let me keep it in the fairway with decent distance. 

[ShortGolfer]

Yesterday I tried driving with a 3 wood and the tee was obviously too high.  I knocked the tee out from under the ball without making any contact with the ball!

I find it a lot easier to swing irons than woods, though I have had success  punching the ball out of bunkers with woods.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Bottom of the ball at the top of the crown is too high as others have said. I tee it more down when I need to control it, a bit higher if I really want to launch it. They are slightly different feels through the ball, lower I feel like I'm covering it more.