Will the pivot happen on its own? Or consciously

[MPStrat]

To answer your last question, much of that is pure preference and opinion and I will give you mine. I will preface this by saying that there are many patterns that can work at a high level. 

 

I am not a fan of moving the hands inside with the clubhead outside the hands in an effort to create “depth”.  The two things you mentioned are part of it. 
 

It is true that the more depth a player has, the more the arms can work outward in transition, but the huge outward move of the hands is in itself a problem that plagues amateur golf. It is best solved by better sequencing rather than jamming the handle inside in the backswing or lowering the arms down in transition. 
 

That brings us to the Justin Rose drill. Again, this is all preference. Lowering the arms down the chest can cause an overly steep angle of attack and cause the club to kick out too much and/or too early.  For many struggling golfers, the arms come down too much and they stand up through the bottom of the swing to shallow. Arms come down, body goes up. One way to lower the arms and hit it awesome would be if the golfer has a pattern like Sergio. Laid off at the top, stay super wide with the arms, lower them down the chest. There is no shallowing involved because the club is already shallow. Despite that fact, I believe it’s a difficult pattern for the average player.

 

Quite simply, I think it’s easier to retain inclination to the ground and rotate if the lead arm stays higher on the chest like this:

 

 

My preference is for most of the down to come from the body lowering. That is made easier by not pulling the arms down the chest.

. 
 

This is an example of arms down, stand up:

 

 

 

In every swing the arms work some amount down, out and forward. Some golfers need more down, some need more out, some need more forward. I believe that the manual forward movement of the arms is more important for most and something many will have to work hard on.

 

 

[Zitlow]

Another way of looking at the pivot. Simplicity is the key, there's more than one way to effectively get the job done.

 

Austin and Lee Comeaux use their right arms and wrists to generate speed but their pivots were different. Austin was bottom up and Lee was top down, both pivoted around their left leg axis/post in the downswing.  

 

Like Austin, Lee does not swing wide down the line in the backswing. Swinging wide down the line creates balance issues, doesn't engage the anatomy train and puts you in a state of recovery from the get go. 

 

They cocked their hands off the ball and folded their right elbows which engaged their anatomy trains causing the right clavicle and right shoulder to turn compressing the right scapula. Their downswings were turns and unfolds of the right elbow and wrists like skipping a stone while pivoting around their left leg axis/post. 

 

Lee hung on his left leg and hip, his lower body reacted in the backswing and downswing. His backswing was a c0ck, fold and turn. His dowsing was reversed, a turn, unfold and lastly the uncock. Like skipping a stone. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nard_S]

I think it's a mistake to frame the pivot strictly as a rotational move. Hips gain depth by a lateral, levered action. they don't rotate, they hinge. It might be semantic but to say to yourself "I'm going to rotate open" is a fallacy and a mistake. The swing arc and shoulders' turn, those rotations are supported by hip hinging. Better hinge = better rotations.

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

I think it's a mistake to frame the pivot strictly as a rotational move. Hips gain depth by a lateral, levered action. they don't rotate, they hinge. It might be semantic but to say to yourself "I'm going to rotate open" is a fallacy and a mistake. The swing arc and shoulders' turn, those rotations are supported by hip hinging. Better hinge = better rotations.

I would say the “core” turns while the feet and legs work together to help the hip joints work freely. 

[liquorandpoker]

I improved a ton when I started letting the momentum of the clubhead work, with my arms and shoulders very relaxed.  Then I just turn my body out if the way.  Sometimes it feels a bit like my arms are pulling my body around.

[Nard_S]

11 hours ago, MPStrat said:

I would say the “core” turns while the feet and legs work together to help the hip joints work freely. 

Yeah, don't disagree. AMG points out that shoulder sockets can add or detract 20 degrees to swing rotation, so i thought shoulder arc is more determinant but it might be wrong or misleading. Legs & feet move pretty much in a more linear way to support all and anchor everything. 

 

Greg Norman on GC promoted a drill where you go 1/2 swing with zero arm fold and then use pure lead side to pull it through hard. Hip clearance becomes a more linear, hinging move.  Great drill to isolate & distill action. The hips are not rotating, upper body, core fools one into thinking it does.