US Open moving towards a rota system.

[stinger_gc]

**This might be common knowledge but thought I'd start a thread anyways**

 

I am friends with a USGA employee who has worked at 2 US Opens in the New York area (he did '09 at Bethpage and '18 at Winged Food) and he is a member at Winged Foot as well. Recently he said to me that the USGA will be doing a US Open rota tentatively from 2030 on. He said the USGA will have an 1-2 anchor sites for a certain state/region of the country.  (Pinehurst, Oakmont, and Merion are already on this list.) Sometime in 2022 the USGA will be announcing that Shinnecock and Winged Foot will be the next 2 anchor sites for the US Open. Winged Foot will host in 2031 or 32 most likely and Shinnecock will be sometime between 2036-2040. Additionally Torrey Pines will not be hosting anymore US Opens. Pebble Beach will be the "anchor Northern California" site and if LACC does well in 2023 that will be the So.CAL anchor site. The USGA is also to bring the US Open back to Oakland Hills in Michigan (as early as 2028).

 

A few more notes, the USGA is not coming back to Bethpage Black or Torrey Pines any time soon. The USGA also despises the PGA of America because the latter has been snatching venues from the USGA for the past 3 decades. Courses like Olympic Club, Baltusrol and Bethpage Black were intended to be US Open staples. But the PGA of America likes to offer some of these "former" US Open sites a Ryder Cup along with a PGA Championship. 

 

 

So as of right now the USGA rota looks something like this to me

Pinehurst

Oakmont

Merion

Shinnecock

Winged Foot

Pebble Beach

LACC???

Oakland Hills

 

Feel free drop any other predictions or thoughts

Edited October 14, 2021 by PHILsThemannnn

[b.helts]

Interesting.

 

Did you get any sense of whether the membership at these private clubs are cool with being an “anchor site”?

 

I’m not sure LACC membership is going to be like “sure, come on out”.

 

But maybe the USGA will subsidize maintenance so the clubs won’t need a year of the USGA getting their courses ready for a US Open. They’ll always be ready for a US Open (a la Oakmont, by all accounts). 
 

Thanks for sharing!

[golfandfishing]

18 minutes ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

**This might be common knowledge but thought I'd start a thread anyways**

 

I am friends with a USGA member who has worked at 2 US Opens in the New York area (he did '09 at Bethpage and '18 at Winged Food) and he is a member at Winged Foot as well. Recently he said to me that the USGA will be doing a US Open rota tentatively from 2030 on. He said the USGA will have an 1-2 anchor sites for a certain state/region of the country.  (Pinehurst, Oakmont, and Merion are already on this list.) Sometime in 2022 the USGA will be announcing that Shinnecock and Winged Foot will be the next 2 anchor sites for the US Open. Winged Foot will host in 2031 or 32 most likely and Shinnecock will be sometime between 2036-2040. Additionally Torrey Pines will not be hosting anymore US Opens. Pebble Beach will be the "anchor Northern California" site and if LACC does well in 2023 that will be the So.CAL anchor site. The USGA is also to bring the US Open back to Oakland Hills in Michigan (as early as 2028).

 

A few more notes, the USGA is not coming back to Bethpage Black or Torrey Pines any time soon. The USGA also despises the PGA of America because the latter has been snatching venues from the USGA for the past 3 decades. Courses like Olympic Club, Baltusrol and Bethpage Black were intended to be US Open staples. But the PGA of America likes to offer some of these "former" US Open sites a Ryder Cup along with a PGA Championship. 

 

 

So as of right now the USGA rota looks something like this to me

Pinehurst

Oakmont

Merion

Shinnecock

Winged Foot

Pebble Beach

LACC???

Oakland Hills

 

Feel free drop any other predictions or thoughts

A USGA membership is $36 online - it includes this type of information along with the bag tag and sticker?

[stinger_gc]

27 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

A USGA membership is $36 online - it includes this type of information along with the bag tag and sticker?

Sorry I meant employee lol. Lives in White Plain New York and is a member at Winged Foot.

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, b.helts said:

Interesting.

 

Did you get any sense of whether the membership at these private clubs are cool with being an “anchor site”?

 

I’m not sure LACC membership is going to be like “sure, come on out”.

 

But maybe the USGA will subsidize maintenance so the clubs won’t need a year of the USGA getting their courses ready for a US Open. They’ll always be ready for a US Open (a la Oakmont, by all accounts). 
 

Thanks for sharing!

LACC isn't that exclusive. They've got 800 members and its $25,000. Most of the LA "elite" play at Bel Air, Riviera, or at Sherwood down in Thousand Oaks.

Also you're exactly right on subsidizing the maintenance for the clubs. The R&A follows a similar model and that way they don't need to spend an absurd amount of time getting their venues ready.  The R&A has only announced up to 2025 for their future venues as opposed to the USGA who's already announced the venues for 2049 and 2050. 

I think another reason the USGA is doing this whole anchor site thing because of COVID. They announced Pinehurst in September last year in the heart of the pandemic and I think the plan was essentially if some unforeseen circumstances come up before the tournament. They should be able to move to an anchor site with no/minimal delay as opposed to pushing back the tournament 3 months.

Edited October 14, 2021 by PHILsThemannnn

[Ghostwedge]

.....and that's why I'm no longer a USGA member.

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, Ghostwedge said:

.....and that's why I'm no longer a USGA member.

Do you not like the rota idea?

[grm24]

2 hours ago, b.helts said:

Interesting.

 

Did you get any sense of whether the membership at these private clubs are cool with being an “anchor site”?

 

I’m not sure LACC membership is going to be like “sure, come on out”.

 

But maybe the USGA will subsidize maintenance so the clubs won’t need a year of the USGA getting their courses ready for a US Open. They’ll always be ready for a US Open (a la Oakmont, by all accounts). 
 

Thanks for sharing!

Oakmont, Merion and Pinehurst have already entered into long term agreements with the USGA to have numerous USGA events at those courses including US Opens.

[Medson]

Pardon my ignorance. I literally thought U.S. Open already had a rota setup before all these anchor sites. U.S. Open comes to Pebble Beach roughly every 10 years. 

 

I guess it makes things official then. 

[b.helts]

@PHILsThemannnn where do you live?

 

The reason “the elite” don’t join lacc is because they can’t get in. 
 

It is one of the hardest clubs to join in the nation. 

[stinger_gc]

1 minute ago, Medson said:

Pardon my ignorance. I literally thought U.S. Open already had a rota setup before all these anchor sites. U.S. Open comes to Pebble Beach roughly every 10 years. 

 

I guess it makes things official then. 

They do not have an official "rota" of venues like the R&A does. Sure they've got venues that they visit frequently like Pebble, Oakmont, Pinehurst. I think the anchor site announcements are either the first step to a rota or as close as the USGA will get to a rota. I think this also means less space for new venues or experiments like Chambers Bay and Erin Hills (both US Opens were a disaster IMO).

[stinger_gc]

Just now, b.helts said:

@PHILsThemannnn where do you live?

 

The reason “the elite” don’t join lacc is because they can’t get in. 
 

It is one of the hardest clubs to join in the nation. 

I live in the Midwest but have a home in Cali and go to NY a couple times a year.

[NJBigFish22]

I thought Olympic Club and Pebble for California was slated to join this rota.  I don’t think this has anything to do with Covid, it has everything to do with putting the National Championship at famed historic courses, just like the R&A does the Open.  Personally I would like to see Baltistrol, being from NJ.  

[Steele47]

I love the old story of the actor Victor Mature who tried to get a membership at LA Country Club.  He was turned down because they did not want/accept actors as members.  His response was something like,  "My films prove I'm no actor".  

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

Do you not like the rota idea?

I think the idea that if a pga of America  event is held at say Kiawah , that a us open can’t be there.  It’s pretty arrogant on the usgas part. 
 

id also add that I wish they’d drop the idea that a course had to be able to handle a huge gallery to be considered.  Think of the courses we could see the open held at if they’d limit ticket sales.  

[stinger_gc]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I think the idea that if a pga of America  event is held at say Kiawah , that a us open can’t be there.  It’s pretty arrogant on the usgas part. 
 

id also add that I wish they’d drop the idea that a course had to be able to handle a huge gallery to be considered.  Think of the courses we could see the open held at if they’d limit ticket sales.  

Yeah but the USGA cares about the $$$ more then anything. I was actually surprised they decided to go back to Merion.  The article below states that Merion can only handle about 25,000 spectators per day. Which is about half of what a venue like Pinehurst can support.(For reference the Masters has about 40k-50k spectators a day). The only reason I think they are going back to Merion is for historical reasons. 2030 is the 100 anniversary of Bobby Jones US Am win there and Hogan won it the US Open in 1950  (hence 2050 US Open awarded).

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/merions-size-means-big-changes-less-revenue-us-open 

[Shilgy]

I believe this info got out a couple months ago.."nothing new” really. 
  Personally I think the US has too many worthy sites to have a short list rota.  But….it’s awfully silly for the USGA to be upset at the PGA of America for using historically USGA sites if the USGA is going to a short list anyways!😂

 

https://progolfnow.com/2021/08/18/us-open-adopts-rota-system/

Edited October 14, 2021 by Shilgy

[elwhippy]

I do like to see the US Open on classic venues and some of the more modern designs have not been good enough. However considering the sheer size of the USA and the amount of top grade courses they could move it around a bit more. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Rota sucks. But leave to the USGA to embrace something that's only good for a few elite while leaving many others shut out. 

 

Yet another good example of why I dropped my membership many years ago. 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[Ghostwedge]

9 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

Do you not like the rota idea?

NO, this freezes out to many other great courses around the country. If its just about making as much money as possible then do it. Meanwhile screw over the flyover section of the country (Southern Hills, Bellerive, Vallaha, etc.)

H&ll, they owe the Pacific NW another US Open, Chambers Bay was a disaster only because the USGA insisted on "natural" conditions, that's a great course and venue otherwise. The "rota" is stuffy old elitist British nonsense.

[MattyO1984]

The idea of a rota doesn’t overly bother me although, that said, whilst it works here in the UK, the sheer number of courses Stateside equipped to handle staging a major clearly outstrips the UK and limiting the pool of courses by introducing a rota seems a little pointless to me but there you go. 

 

The thing that I just don’t get is why the need to have these events planned so so far in advance. Do we really need to know that the US Open will be held at Pinehurst in 2047?

[mark m]

They’re signaling. It’s tied into the distance issue. This is “who we are” and they hire their likeness as well. Shinnecock was a founding member of the USGA. They don’t want to say these courses are now obsolete for elite players. (Same for the R&A.) So they will do what they have to do.  I think you’ll see continued tweaking of those courses on the list. Pebble is an issue with small tilted greens. A more talented designer would have had better green complexes. But it’s now “hallowed” ground. Remember all the angst around the tweaking of #11 green at St Andrew’s?

[stinger_gc]

2 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

NO, this freezes out to many other great courses around the country. If its just about making as much money as possible then do it. Meanwhile screw over the flyover section of the country (Southern Hills, Bellerive, Vallaha, etc.)

H&ll, they owe the Pacific NW another US Open, Chambers Bay was a disaster only because the USGA insisted on "natural" conditions, that's a great course and venue otherwise. The "rota" is stuffy old elitist British nonsense.

Good point, but I'm pretty sure the PGA of America purchased Valhalla, so there's no way the USGA will ever go there. I think there's a good chance that Southern Hills and Oak Hill host a US Open in the future. Both courses are hosting a US AM in the near future.

The USGA F'd up Chambers Bay by killing the greens. Tee-to-green I actually thought it was a great set up but the greens were horrendous. The only other complaint I had about CB was they played 18 as a par 4 on Friday. I think it plays better as a par 5. The greens are now Poa Annua instead of fescue. I'd love to see a PGA Championship return to Chambers Bay. I think the PGA Of America would do a really good job with Chambers Bay. They do a really good job at courses that have never hosted a major before. Harding Park was a great set up because it was an exciting tournament and you didn't hear a single peep about the course.

[jjthomp2]

13 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

LACC isn't that exclusive. They've got 800 members and its $25,000. Most of the LA "elite" play at Bel Air, Riviera, or at Sherwood down in Thousand Oaks.

ummmm.... 

 

 

[stinger_gc]

6 minutes ago, jjthomp2 said:

ummmm.... 

 

 

Compared to other places in the area it's not that bad. Riv has an initiation fee of $250k plus annual dues of $25k and Sherwood has a $300k initiation fee and monthly fees of $1000. $25k is a lot but it's not super exclusive. 

 

https://www.howmuchisit.org/sherwood-club-member-cost/#:~:text=The initiation fee for a,initiation fee drops to %24200%2C000.

 

https://www.thepricer.org/riviera-country-club-membership-cost/

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

20 minutes ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

Compared to other places in the area it's not that bad. Riv has an initiation fee of $250k plus annual dues of $25k and Sherwood has a $300k initiation fee and monthly fees of $1000. $25k is a lot but it's not super exclusive. 

 

https://www.howmuchisit.org/sherwood-club-member-cost/#:~:text=The initiation fee for a,initiation fee drops to %24200%2C000.

 

https://www.thepricer.org/riviera-country-club-membership-cost/

 

 

I think the exclusivity most are alluding to is not financial.  It is more philosophical and social.  Not just any person with $25k who shows up at the gate gets to be a member.

[stinger_gc]

14 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I think the exclusivity most are alluding to is not financial.  It is more philosophical and social.  Not just any person with $25k who shows up at the gate gets to be a member.

I agree with you on that. 

[jvincent]

40 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I think the exclusivity most are alluding to is not financial.  It is more philosophical and social.  Not just any person with $25k who shows up at the gate gets to be a member.

So you're saying there's a chance...................

[farmer]

IIRC, the biggest complaint from non-players at CB was that it is not spectator friendly.  A 5mi slog over sand dunes and poor viewing angles makes for a long day.  The greens issues could probably been solved if the USGA had waited 2-3 years, at least according to posters who have played CB.

[ThinkingPlus]

34 minutes ago, jvincent said:

So you're saying there's a chance...................

Maybe, but it seems like a long commute to the golf course for you.