Why Tiger has had so many surgeries

[RCGA]

8 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

You tell me how your back feels after swinging it 120+ mph for many years.  I will agree with the injury prone though.  I could get into the whole suspected PED use topic, but then all the fan boys will come to his defense so I will just leave it at that. 

 

Phil, Sergio, Adam Scott, DJ, Stewart Cink, Paul Casey, etc. all average 300+ off the tee and are all over 35 years old. 

 

How many back surgeries among them? 

Edited October 15, 2021 by RCGA

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Just now, RCGA said:

 

Phil, Sergio, Adam Scott, DJ, Stewart Cink, Paul Casey, etc. all average 300+ off the tee and are all over 35 years old. 

 

How many back surgeries among them? 

And what about Jack? I think he was still 118 at 58. In his prime I'm pretty sure he was in the 120s. 

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, RCGA said:

 

After 5 back surgeries on top of everything else, maybe it's not the swing? 

 

Couldn't image swigging your way into a dozen surgeries. At some point, you've got to be at the range, in pain, thinking "wtf am I doing?' 

 

If I blow out my knees running in combat boots....I don't keep running in combat boots. 

 

 

 

You know we talkin TW right?

 

He not like you or me. He completely trashed his messed up knee, kept playing like a nut job, heck with the pain or resulting damage,

 

 

“I had ruptured my ACL in July the previous year and I played on it with no ACL and my meniscus was just, I was trashing it. My leg was sloppy. So I knew I had to go in because I had fragments in there. But my surgeons were saying that I also have to have the knee reconstructed. And I said, ‘Well, we’ll just do a cleanup job first,’ because I wanted to play the next three major championships. I took time off after that surgery. When I came back, I was doing a photo shoot and I was hitting a shot from a downhill lie and that’s when I cracked (the tibia). They were saying I was pretty much done for the year. I said, ‘Ah, I don’t know about that.’ Because I played basically from July of ’07 through ’08 with no ACL so I was kind of used to it.”

 

 

His knee was toast, but then once he fractured his leg he really couldn’t practice. His practice was limited to hitting one shot, sitting in the cart, recovering for a little bit and then trying to hit another shot. He would practice for 45 minutes or so.”

 

“I watched the tournament. I remember Tiger hobbling, hobbling, hobbling, occasionally hitting a good shot, making a putt. Hobbling, hobbling, hobbling, occasionally hitting a good shot, making a putt. Tiger is Tiger, there was no one like him.”

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by bscinstnct

[jholz]

27 minutes ago, freeze16172002 said:

How many times did he train with the Navy Seals? He didnt go through buds, he did some helo jumps, some sniper and shoothouse training. I dont think it had any effect. He did go to the same doc as Arod though

 

Yeah, I don't necessarily think you can point to a single thing that lead to his physical problems. 

 

Except, of course, if you just generalize his overall behavior as "using his body hard for everything" as I tried to suggest in my post. When I say "everything," I'm including messing around with waitresses and aggressive driving. 

 

Dude was burning the candle at both ends in pretty much everything he did. After a while, there's no more candle left to burn. 

[RCGA]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

 

You know we talkin TW right?

 

He not like you or me. He completely trashed his messed up knee, kept playing like a nut job, heck with the pain or resulting damage,

 

 

“I had ruptured my ACL in July the previous year and I played on it with no ACL and my meniscus was just, I was trashing it. My leg was sloppy. So I knew I had to go in because I had fragments in there. But my surgeons were saying that I also have to have the knee reconstructed. And I said, ‘Well, we’ll just do a cleanup job first,’ because I wanted to play the next three major championships. I took time off after that surgery. When I came back, I was doing a photo shoot and I was hitting a shot from a downhill lie and that’s when I cracked (the tibia). They were saying I was pretty much done for the year. I said, ‘Ah, I don’t know about that.’ Because I played basically from July of ’07 through ’08 with no ACL so I was kind of used to it.”

 

 

...he tore this ACL in the training with the SEALs 

[JaNelson38]

22 hours ago, larrybud said:

I'm no doctor, but his swing always looked so violent and tight, versus someone like Phil where it's very loose and flowing.

 

Of course, that doesn't explain someone like Couples who I would put in the Phil camp.

 

I forget who coined the phrase "Long swing, long career" when talking about golf, but more often than not that seems to hold up pretty well.

 

As others have stated, Tiger has used his body hard.  Both in his professional and, as we now know, his personal life.  Also something that doesn't get mentioned a lot but in my opinion matters a great deal - its pretty well known Tiger suffers very badly from insomnia, which basically was the catalyst for him taking many of the pain/sleep medications he's basically lived on for the better part of two decades.  When you don't sleep (or don't sleep well) your body doesn't heal right and doesnt function right.  Add to that the various drug cocktails he's consumed over the years, and....

 

It sounds silly that something like lack of sleep has been the root cause of Tiger's demise physically, but I think it's a big part of it.

Edited October 15, 2021 by JaNelson38

[bscinstnct]

27 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

...he tore this ACL in the training with the SEALs 

 

 

 

TW had a bad knee from way before then.

 

And even after he hurt it with dopey seal training, he didn’t get it taken care of.

 

He kept playing. For a year. Continuing to destroy his knee.

 

And the back is definitely from golf. Lots of guys, Love, Delaet, Appleby, Chappell has the microdiscectomy surgery. The fusion was a last ditch because those didn’t work well enough. 

 

You actually think his seal thing caused his back and knee problems?

 

Understand if you consider a minor contributor. But TWs injuries were contributed to by several key things with his athleticism and reckless way of playing golf being the primary. 

[ferrispgm]

Lotta comments on here about how because he swung the club at 120+ mph his back was bad....That has nothing or very very little to do with it.....it's how he did that was the issue......Left knee snapping, hips wide open and shoulders very vertical at impact with driver...that's the issue.  If he had his shoulders more perpendicular to his spine throughout the swing and didn't snap his knee for so many years I guarantee we aren't having this discussion.  Look at his swing now...much more rotation around his spine because it's a ton easier on the back.  If you want to pretty much guarantee a bad back do 1 of 2 things.....Restrict your lower body rotation in the backswing or get super open with the hips and vertical with the shoulders at impact.  

[nikeblades00]

Hey guys I think I figured it out. Maybe he suffers from:

 Munchausen syndrome

 

 This type of mental disorder is most often seen in young adults and is considered a type of self-harm. A person with Munchausen syndrome can be very convincing, which can result in doctors providing unnecessary treatment, such as medication or surgery.

Edited October 15, 2021 by nikeblades00
Bad joke 🤣

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, ferrispgm said:

Lotta comments on here about how because he swung the club at 120+ mph his back was bad....That has nothing or very very little to do with it.....it's how he did that was the issue......Left knee snapping, hips wide open and shoulders very vertical at impact with driver...that's the issue.  If he had his shoulders more perpendicular to his spine throughout the swing and didn't snap his knee for so many years I guarantee we aren't having this discussion.  Look at his swing now...much more rotation around his spine because it's a ton easier on the back.  If you want to pretty much guarantee a bad back do 1 of 2 things.....Restrict your lower body rotation in the backswing or get super open with the hips and vertical with the shoulders at impact.  

 

He's mentioned a few times he had to change his swing from 2000 with Haney because of his knee but honestly I thought he snapped his knee just the same or more in the Haney swing. His upper body started getting pretty stuck closed on the downswing in the later Haney years and would have that weird follow through because of it.

 

Doing a golf swing 8-10 hours a day for years is going to cause some injuries that need to be worked through. People think that a playing 2-4 hour round a couple times a week is the same thing.

[Yuck]

How come Colin Montgomery has not trashed his back with that reverse C?

[ferrispgm]

50 minutes ago, Yuck said:

How come Colin Montgomery has not trashed his back with that reverse C?

Montgomery doesn't hit it very far either....far less speed.

[golfandfishing]

1 hour ago, nikeblades00 said:

Hey guys I think I figured it out. Maybe he suffers from:

 Munchausen syndrome

 

 This type of mental disorder is most often seen in young adults and is considered a type of self-harm. A person with Munchausen syndrome can be very convincing, which can result in doctors providing unnecessary treatment, such as medication or surgery.

Careful. I got a time out when I posted that possibly his most recent car accident was intentional. 

[Pepperturbo]

On 10/14/2021 at 8:40 AM, jholz said:

A number of folks have suggested that his time training with Navy SEALs didn't help anything.

 

Ultimately, he's used his body hard - for a lot of things. 

I don't agree with that sentiment. 

 

Back in my day I did a lot of specialized training with Agency and SOG guys, including Green Berets and Delta guys.  Back then and still today, they are tough as nails, never show fear, regardless.  Their training regime could break a weak person in two. 

 

Knowing that, and what has since happened to Tiger, even though it was NOT a smart decision by Tiger, I totally understand why he did it.  His Dad was in Vietnam as LT COL in special operations.  Every son wants to be somewhat like his dad.  Mentally, Tiger was and still is way over equipped compared to Joe average on tour.  My best guess, Tiger will be back to make a splash.

 

[Ghostwedge]

I've always thought TW had to much weight on his frame, he is small to medium boned to begin with and other than golf not that athletic. So I can see the injuries piling up over the years. The golf swing at high speed is a violent.motion the human body isn't really made for it. 

Sam Snead excluded.

[iBanesto]

A reference point relating to how Tiger's body and swing changed many times over the years.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by iBanesto

[MK7Golf21]

4 minutes ago, iBanesto said:

A reference point relating to how Tiger's body and swing changed many times over the years.

 

 

yea but you can’t really compare body types when your 17 vs 35. Most kids are skinny when they are 17 and put in weight when older whether they lift or not. Metabolism slows down and body matures 

[golfandfishing]

5 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Mentally, Tiger was and still is way over equipped compared to Joe average on tour.  My best guess, Tiger will be back to make a splash.

 

Is he gonna drive off a bridge?

[iBanesto]

1 minute ago, Redjeep83 said:

yea but you can’t really compare body types when your 17 vs 35. Most kids are skinny when they are 17 and put in weight when older whether they lift or not. Metabolism slows down and body matures 

 

It is just more the point, that people's body over the years and thus the body will react differently to the load placed on it.

 

[bscinstnct]

5 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

I've always thought TW had to much weight on his frame, he is small to medium boned to begin with and other than golf not that athletic. So I can see the injuries piling up over the years. The golf swing at high speed is a violent.motion the human body isn't really made for it. 

Sam Snead excluded.

 

Well, lots of golfers over the decades way overweight with no major back or knee issues. 
 

TW added about 20 pounds, prolly a good 15 of that muscle. And that was over years. Generally, fitness and adding muscle will protect your core, back, and joints. 

I think the latter part of your statement is on target. Violent swing, hundreds of thousands of times, with technique that, combined with underlying injuries that he added to with the running (and dopey seal thing, perhaps) and it set him on this path to injury.

 

Look at BK. I think he did something to his knee just by accident stepping weird, not even from swinging, and it seems to be an ongoing problem now. 

[2bGood]

On 10/14/2021 at 1:22 PM, Redjeep83 said:

 

busting his knees? It's only the lead knee and he claims it was from snapping his lead leg in the golf swing. His injuries are all related to repeated golf swings

 

12 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Early in his pro career Tiger's routine was to run on concrete 5 or more  miles per day. I think too much running on concrete caused most of the physical injuries.

The science currently believes running is very bad for SOME people. Really depends your build. Some people have the rate gate, pronation and build to tolerate running for a long time, but many people do not. I suspect Tiger falls into the category that he never could have been a long distance runner and that was part of what messed him up his knees. His back gave out thanks to too much take-out from the Waffle House.

[Shilgy]

13 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

Tiger’s “word” is not typically associated with the truth. 

In this sense it actually does.  But the funny thing is everyone is using their Tiger quote of choice to back up their post.  And then claiming that others are wrong when they have a quote of their own to back up their own post.

 

Its likely that everyone is correct imho.  Years of wear and tear from training, playing, running, pancakes whatever.  It all piled up.

 

 

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, iBanesto said:

A reference point relating to how Tiger's body and swing changed many times over the years.

 

 

He really does look like a linebacker…..on a Peewee league team.

[grm24]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Look at BK. I think he did something to his knee just by accident stepping weird, not even from swinging, and it seems to be an ongoing problem now. 

He slipped on wet concrete during an event in Korea and reaggravated a previous injury. As have many others in life that have had previous knee injuries. In all sorts of ways. Myself included. 

[m d g]

If I had a choice for golf I'd rather have long, lean 'beach volleyball' muscles than bulky 'weight lifter' muscles. 

 

It seems to me that flexibility beats bulk, and being lighter and more flexible would lead to a longer career...

[Valtiel]

 

14 hours ago, jholz said:

 

Yeah, I don't necessarily think you can point to a single thing that lead to his physical problems. 

 

Except, of course, if you just generalize his overall behavior as "using his body hard for everything" as I tried to suggest in my post. When I say "everything," I'm including messing around with waitresses and aggressive driving. 

 

Dude was burning the candle at both ends in pretty much everything he did. After a while, there's no more candle left to burn. 

Yup, pretty much covers it. He was/is an unfortunate combination (from a health standpoint) of gifted, stubborn, insanely driven, and injury prone.

 

[MK7Golf21]

3 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

The science currently believes running is very bad for SOME people. Really depends your build. Some people have the rate gate, pronation and build to tolerate running for a long time, but many people do not. I suspect Tiger falls into the category that he never could have been a long distance runner and that was part of what messed him up his knees. His back gave out thanks to too much take-out from the Waffle House.

 

Thats fine and all but why do you guys keep saying messed up his knees like it's both, it was only his lead knee. Well maybe not now after the accident, think his right knee was ok though 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

Thats fine and all but why do you guys keep saying messed up his knees like it's both, it was only his lead knee. Well maybe not now after the accident, think his right knee was ok though 

If high impact running weakened both knees then it's not hard to imagine that the lead one, the one put under more strain, could end up actually damaged/injured. Both knees could have been in similar shape, but the more strained one would obviously be the one to give out. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Valtiel

[doc52]

34 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

If high impact running weakened both knees then it's not hard to imagine that the lead one, the one put under more strain, could end up actually damaged/injured. Both knees could have been in similar shape, but the more strained one would obviously be the one to give out. 

Speaking my language, pretty much what I did to my knees in my baseball career. Both went bad, dominant knee was taking more of the force and boom that one goes first. 

[Valtiel]

1 minute ago, doc52 said:

Speaking my language, pretty much what I did to my knees in my baseball career. Both went bad, dominant knee was taking more of the force and boom that one goes first.