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Moving from Blade to Mallet: Question re: Toe Flow


MagnoliaGolfer
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I've got a Newport and have been thinking about picking up one of the Phantom X mallets.   When moving from a blade to a mallet, did you look for a mallet with the same toe flow as your blade?   Why or why not? 

 

Or, another way of asking the question: in your putter stable, are all the putters the same toe flow, or do you vary in toe flow?   

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I worry more about about offset, alignment, loft, lie, length and weight than toe hang in a putter but everyone is different. My current collection I have to hang from 20° to 60° and all work for me and on Quintic the face and path/rotation were basically the exact same.

 

But that's me, you could be different but I still think setup and alignment are key factors in a putter.

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34 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

I worry more about about offset, alignment, loft, lie, length and weight than toe hang in a putter but everyone is different. My current collection I have to hang from 20° to 60° and all work for me and on Quintic the face and path/rotation were basically the exact same.

 

But that's me, you could be different but I still think setup and alignment are key factors in a putter.

 

This is super helpful.  Thanks. 

 

And now that I think about it more, I think another factor is likely why someone is getting the putter.  For me, it's a matter of wanting a different visual look as well as more forgiveness––so, not really wanting to change path.  In that case, maybe it makes sense to shoot for similar toe flow. 

 

I'll look into a fitting for sure to get loft, lie, length, weight etc figured out.  Thanks. 

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35 minutes ago, kb7 said:

I'm more concerned with L/L/L and how it fits my eye. I typically roll a Newport, but when I switch it up to a mallet it is an X5 flow neck. The X5 has very similar toe hang but only has 1/2 shaft offset. Both are set to 34/3.5/70.

 

How does shaft offset affect the putter? 

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Not sure I can offer too much help but for me, it doesn't seem to matter whether I have a face-balanced putter or something near toe-down. As long as I can set up comfortably without having to think about it and I can align it correctly, and the weight/balance seems fine, I will putt about the same no matter what, which I'd describe as mediocre..

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13 hours ago, MagnoliaGolfer said:

I've got a Newport and have been thinking about picking up one of the Phantom X mallets.   When moving from a blade to a mallet, did you look for a mallet with the same toe flow as your blade?   Why or why not? 

 

Or, another way of asking the question: in your putter stable, are all the putters the same toe flow, or do you vary in toe flow?   

I got fitted. Went from Anser/ Plumber's neck or flowneck styles( Betti BB1 and BC4, Toulon Long Island) to a mallet w/ a little toe hang ( Betti Innovai 6.0 Rev ). Also shortened from 34 to 33". Also added loft to 4* from 3*. A lot of small changes.

I putted pretty well with the blades, but I'm making a lot more <10' putts now. I find that I start more putts on my intended line. Is it the shorter length (suspected) or the higher MOI enabling me to make more putts? Don't know for sure, but I'm happy!

BTW, I had never gamed a mallet before because I always felt like my eyes wanted to follow the head at takeaway. Not having that issue now.

And yes, most all my putter quiver had close to the same toe flow until now.

 

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34 minutes ago, tleader said:

My mallet and blade specs match in all aspects except neck style - plumbers vs slant

 

Virtually the same toe flow so allows me to switch between without much difficulty. 

 

This makes a lot of sense to me.  Kind of what I was thinking too. 

 

54 minutes ago, RainShadow said:

I got fitted. Went from Anser/ Plumber's neck or flowneck styles( Betti BB1 and BC4, Toulon Long Island) to a mallet w/ a little toe hang ( Betti Innovai 6.0 Rev ). Also shortened from 34 to 33". Also added loft to 4* from 3*. A lot of small changes.

I putted pretty well with the blades, but I'm making a lot more <10' putts now. I find that I start more putts on my intended line. Is it the shorter length (suspected) or the higher MOI enabling me to make more putts? Don't know for sure, but I'm happy!

BTW, I had never gamed a mallet before because I always felt like my eyes wanted to follow the head at takeaway. Not having that issue now.

And yes, most all my putter quiver had close to the same toe flow until now.

 

 

And this is fascinating.  Do you know if your experience is typical of getting fit for a putter?  I picked my putter out 20 years ago because I liked how it looked.  No one I knew then was getting fit for a putter.  Makes me wonder if I should now.  

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I personally like a bit less toe flow in my mallets.  My current gamer "stable" is a blade (Newport 2), and two mallets (Spider X flow neck and Phantom 5.5).  For me going from a slant neck Spider X to a flow neck Spider X (less to hang) made a great difference in regards to squaring the face.  YMMV.  

 

Phantom 5.5 was gamer for most of this summer, but recent dialing in with my Spider X has put it back in the bag.  Added the 12g weight kit, a bigger SS Pistol 2.0 grip, and the 75g counter-core insert has turned it into a weapon.....for now.   

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30 minutes ago, MagnoliaGolfer said:

 

This makes a lot of sense to me.  Kind of what I was thinking too. 

 

 

And this is fascinating.  Do you know if your experience is typical of getting fit for a putter?  I picked my putter out 20 years ago because I liked how it looked.  No one I knew then was getting fit for a putter.  Makes me wonder if I should now.  


I think it’s the best of both options for me. I can choose which putter I want to look down at, and put the same stroke regardless….or try. 

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1 hour ago, MagnoliaGolfer said:

 

This makes a lot of sense to me.  Kind of what I was thinking too. 

 

 

And this is fascinating.  Do you know if your experience is typical of getting fit for a putter?  I picked my putter out 20 years ago because I liked how it looked.  No one I knew then was getting fit for a putter.  Makes me wonder if I should now.  

 I always went with what looked good to my eye and rolled well. I had putted with heel shafted blades and anser type heads since I was a kid.

I've been told by a few different teachers that I could probably putt well with any style putter.

This was my first fitting. As I said, the biggest takeaway from it, I think, was the change in length. My stroke was very consistent, but my eyes were too far inside the ball. 1.5-2". Quite a revelation, and was causing me to pull putts, most notably on 4-5 footers, but everything was starting just inside my intended line. Not so now. Majority of my misses are speed related these days.

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1 hour ago, MagnoliaGolfer said:

 

Thi

 

Edited by RainShadow

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When I switched from a blade to a mallet it was for a change in the balance of the putter. I went to a face balanced putter, which is primarily mallet style. So for me, toe hang was changed on purpose. I have also found that my aim is much better with the mallet, but that could just be how the alignment aids look.

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I've never really think about toe hang when considering putters. I've done enough tinkering to know what I like and what tends to work best for me. From there, it's a matter of practice and getting comfortable with what I have. I'm not one to switch putters lightly.

 

But this does result in some anachronisms that others might find problematic. For instance, I have a slight arc to my stroke, but tend to gravitate to face-balanced models. The textbook suggests that might be a bad match but somehow I manage to get the ball in the hole better than most. 

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14 minutes ago, Haroputt said:

Any mallet models with extreme toe hangs?

The closest I tried is a spider with slant neck at about 45 degrees

If the neck was a straighter  would it give me more toe hang like 90 degrees  directly to the ground?

 

Nothing from OEM or off the rack will have a lot of toe hang in mallet. You'd need to modify a mallet with a new neck to get more toe hang or go custom. Best bet is finding a smaller mid mallet to get a lot of toe hang. 

 

I had this MannKrafted round mid-mallet that had a good amount of toe hang to it. 

 

20200919_164106-01.jpeg.c85d358fcccb85d2ec3a0d1d86e3709f.jpeg20200919_163841-01.jpeg.a9f61c804d7e5d68b73af32b73aad3f8.jpeg20200919_164040-01.jpeg.c099ab97efbc9871108958f96b952bcf.jpeg

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I prefer a putter with around 4:30 - 5:00 toe hang since I have a moderate gate stroke.  A putter with toe hang allows me to release the putter naturally leading to my hands being passive.  Generally a mallet is face balanced and that seems to go against my gate stroke.  Now there are mallets with toe hang but this leads me to a mental issue in that I just cannot stroke this type of mallet, even though there is toe hang to allow release, because of a mental image I have for mallets.  My hands seem to become active with mallets even when they shouldn't be.  A blade is what my minds sees as natural and what my stroke needs to be fluid and let the hands be passive.  If anyone isn't sure, this only proves what kind of head case I really am!  😂

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23 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

 

Nothing from OEM or off the rack will have a lot of toe hang in mallet. You'd need to modify a mallet with a new neck to get more toe hang or go custom. Best bet is finding a smaller mid mallet to get a lot of toe hang. 

 

I had this MannKrafted round mid-mallet that had a good amount of toe hang to it. 

 

20200919_164106-01.jpeg.c85d358fcccb85d2ec3a0d1d86e3709f.jpeg20200919_163841-01.jpeg.a9f61c804d7e5d68b73af32b73aad3f8.jpeg20200919_164040-01.jpeg.c099ab97efbc9871108958f96b952bcf.jpeg

 

Even if a particular mid-mallet doesn't have pronounced toe hang, I've found that a lot of mid-mallet models tend to "behave" like blade putters but give you the added alignment aid and just a smidge of MOI help.

 

If folks are like me - "somewhere in between" - a mid-mallet might be the ticket. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RobotDoctor said:

I prefer a putter with around 4:30 - 5:00 toe hang since I have a moderate gate stroke.  A putter with toe hang allows me to release the putter naturally leading to my hands being passive.  Generally a mallet is face balanced and that seems to go against my gate stroke.  Now there are mallets with toe hang but this leads me to a mental issue in that I just cannot stroke this type of mallet, even though there is toe hang to allow release, because of a mental image I have for mallets.  My hands seem to become active with mallets even when they shouldn't be.  A blade is what my minds sees as natural and what my stroke needs to be fluid and let the hands be passive.  If anyone isn't sure, this only proves what kind of head case I really am!  😂

Finding a putter to me is like find clothes that fit , everyone slightly different

I need toe hang as it feels like the rest of golf clubs , Even mild toe hangs doesnt feel comfy to me

I tend to be good from longer distance putts but I struggle to keep face square for shorter putts

I have tried more face balance but then I start looking at the putter head through the stroke and this bleeds poorly into the rest of my clubs and I start swinging poorly   After a while I go back to odessay 9 which is really like an old style blade with toe hang and I get my feel back  One of the reason I like that is the flow neck design   it feels like the rest of golf clubs

I think 45 degree toe hang is a good compromise  but I still trying to feel comfortable , Face balance isnt for me

Though I find changing grip sizes ( i prefer round grip / thicker ) and using altering grip type saw, crosshanded has helped that a lot in making those type of putter comfy for me

Putting now is just a separate game to me, separate from swing a golf club , has its own fundamentals.

 

 

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Changing putter style without being fitted or knowing what putter design benefits your mechanics is not prudent, these days.  If your current putter is, in fact, properly fitted to you, I suggest you buy the same toe/spec design.   Least that IS what I will do in the near future.

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15 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Changing putter style without being fitted or knowing what putter design benefits your mechanics is not prudent, these days.  If your current putter is, in fact, properly fitted to you, I suggest you buy the same toe/spec design.   Least that IS what I will do in the near future.

 

Agreed.  Now I just need to find someone who does a proper fitting! 

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I struggle with this, as I want to use a mallet, but I end up giving up on them.   The worst for me are mallets with a lot of toe hang, especially higher MOI putters, but face balanced single bends don't seem to work either, I can't seem to feel where the face is.   (my experiment last year with a Spider X flow neck  and this year with a single bend Spiter Tour were miserable failures).   I have been using a Newport 2 style off and on for a few years, and got a real deal Scotty last year, after a few tweaks to it, in the spring I started putting decent for me, but wanted to get better.   I have been working on putting a lot this year and found a plumbers neck seems to help me with alignment, and wanted to try some sort of mallet with one, but was having a hard time finding one I liked. What I thought I wanted was something like Xander Schauffele's.  I tried a regular #7 but just didn't get along with the double bend, and I'm not a fan of inserts.  A couple of weeks ago I decided to try an Evenroll ER5v with a long neck, slight toe hang, which I took out this weekend.  So far, mixed results, confidence with my aim is very good, but speed control was not great, a lot of putts short, maybe it is just a matter of working with it a bit.  I was hoping the Evnroll grooves would help with speed, but so far I would say no (I remember when I first tried a Yes! putter, I was amazed at how consistently good my speed control was).  image.png.eaa69f3137b879dbe79d963dd4f3d5cf.png

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On 10/14/2021 at 8:29 PM, MattM97 said:

I worry more about about offset, alignment, loft, lie, length and weight than toe hang in a putter but everyone is different. My current collection I have to hang from 20° to 60° and all work for me and on Quintic the face and path/rotation were basically the exact same.

 

But that's me, you could be different but I still think setup and alignment are key factors in a putter.

I agree with this. Offset, alignment, and loft/lie is going to be the most important. 

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If you are looking for a toe hang mallet, the new White Hot OG Rossie S has a reasonable toe hang. I played with this a little when I was re-evaluated my preference for face balanced putter.

 

You can putt them side by side, the Rossie S (toe hang) and the Rossie Std (Face Balanced) for a comparison. Same head, different balance.

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5 minutes ago, Wardonation said:

If my miss is a pull (outside in stroke) what neck will help alliviate this issue the most?

 

This has always been my miss as well especially on putts inside of 6 feet. 

 

Just today I ordered a face balanced mallet putter so we'll see how that experiment goes. I've always played with a flow neck blade putter that had a decent bit of toe hang so I'm thinking that the face balanced option will allow me to keep the head more square at impact.

 

Although there is a good chance the experiment fails and the aforementioned face balanced putter is put up for sale here in a few months 😂.

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