Has anyone switched from blade type irons to GI (game improvement) irons?

[chipa]

53 minutes ago, jomatty said:

I think the advantage is that you can often hit it just as high with something like the t100s as you can with the t100.  At least a lot of players will experience this with higher ball speeds.  This may not appeal to higher swing speed players but for some of us regular Joe’s it can be an advantage and not cause any gapping issues.

 

With all due respect hitting a ball high doesn't mean it will stop quickly, thus making it difficult to judge where the ball will end up on the green. But I think many golfers that use these clubs are probably just happy to be on the green I suppose and I understand (I used to think like this) that but honestly they won't lower their hc that way.

 

As far as gapping goes my irons are at 10-11 yards which for me is perfect so that I never have in between shots. I think as long as one has 7 yards between clubs this is not any disadvantage as more clubs can be added at the top end if needed. According to the Trackman tour stats gapping with long irons is only 9 yards.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by chipa

[rufus mangler]

Went from Srixon 745 to Ping G25. Same lofts. Still feeling out short game shots, but the Pings are stupid easy to hit.

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, bryanwmilburn said:

Correct. Exactly my point. If your goal is to shoot your best score every time, and not necessarily just go out to enjoy the game and play clubs you have fun playing, GI type irons might be best for you bc we all have off days. I’ve learned to just scrape it around and get up and down on those days lol

 

The proverbial flip side is that your good days won't be as good.  On good hits, CBs have a wider dispersion pattern.

 

Obviously, it's player dependent.  Anyone's good days need to be good enough to take advantage.  😉

 

Have a friend who's always been around my hdcp, as low as an 8 a few years ago, IIRC.  Not good with irons, even on his best day.  Definitely not a candidate for anything more than the Ping G series he's playing.

 

[Dion1970]

I did about 3 years ago. I went to the Mizuno Hot metals. So glad I did. I don’t get out to practice much and my misses would be so much more exaggerated with blades. The difference in forgiveness has made playing fun again for me. Of the GI style, I found the Mizunos to work best for me. 

[braincramp52]

Over the past 2 years I've played Wilson Staff blades, Wilson V6's, Srixon ZX5's, Wilson D9's and Titleist 714AP2's. My scores and handicap haven't moved. The way I hit hybrids next year the longest iron in my bag will be a 7 iron and my irons will be blades.

[jwb10]

1 hour ago, NRJyzr said:

 

The proverbial flip side is that your good days won't be as good.  On good hits, CBs have a wider dispersion pattern.

 

Obviously, it's player dependent.  Anyone's good days need to be good enough to take advantage.  😉

 

Have a friend who's always been around my hdcp, as low as an 8 a few years ago, IIRC.  Not good with irons, even on his best day.  Definitely not a candidate for anything more than the Ping G series he's playing.

 

CB s have better dispersion , every day

[driveandputtmachine]

Whether you play blades or SGI irons, it doesn't matter.  What truly betters your scores are a set of irons that help YOUR mishits.  Whether it is heavy, thin, toe side or hosel side.

 

For me, my miss is toe side.  NO BLADE made is more forgiving on the toe than CB's GI or SGI. (Generalization since there are many "blades" that are using tungsten to try and move the sweet spot to the center, but you get what I am cooking)

 

I want whatever iron I am hitting to end up as close to the standard distance as often as possible and as close left and right as possible.  That is it, nothing else really matters (yes I know descent angle and spin), but again you catch what I am cooking.

 

The holy grail is to find a set where your good swings go X yardage, and bad swings go X yardage(+/-5), and your dispersion is similar on misses.  ie, you play a cut and 80% of you shots cut whether hit well or poorly.  The higher the percentage that do the same thing the better.

 

Who cares that you can't play a draw to that left hole location?  Not your score.  Aim at the flag, if you hit it straight you are good, if you cut it you are still close, and if you slice you are probably still on the green and have a better chance at par than if you short side yourself.   There have been guys on tour who NEVER hit a draw and have made piles of money.  

 

Those of you that are hosel adjacent on your strikes may prefer blades, I hear blades are better for the most part on strikes there, but I am sure there may be some CB or GI that do quite well on hosel adjacent strikes, I just don't know because that's not where I live.

[NRJyzr]

15 minutes ago, jwb10 said:

CB s have better dispersion , every day

 

My experience is otherwise.  Was even told by a fitter, when I was there to buy new clubs, that I should stick with what I had (Golden Ram TW276).  My pattern was largely as described below.

 

Then there's this tiny snip from Terry Koehler's blog piece from years ago:

on dead center hits - our shot pattern was about 1/4 the size of the cavity back pattern

 

[cav5]

I'm working on that experiment now. Just finished the year with win at county invite with 69 playing the 2021 Callaway Apex MBs. Have had everything from baby blades to mizuno to titleist to TM etc..

 

Currently building a set of 2021 X Forged CBs with lighter and weaker shafts. Will play them a few times up here in the Northeast then trial them in Florida.

 

It's not so much that I need help, its just sometimes doubt creeps in when playing in tournaments. I also find it easier to align clubs with a slightly longer heel-toe.

[chipa]

58 minutes ago, driveandputtmachine said:

Those of you that are hosel adjacent on your strikes may prefer blades, I hear blades are better for the most part on strikes there, but I am sure there may be some CB or GI that do quite well on hosel adjacent strikes, I just don't know because that's not where I live.

 

I was thinking this might be the reason some higher hc like myself prefer blades or smaller cb's because hitting from the inside it's probably easier to hit closer to the hosel so toe mishits aren't that common. My DCI's have very little perimeter weighting but I don't believe it is a disadvantage as my longest iron is the 5 iron. I switched out the longer irons for a hybrid and 7 wood.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by chipa

[chipa]

10 minutes ago, cav5 said:

I also find it easier to align clubs with a slightly longer heel-toe.

 

I never really paid attention to how my fairway woods align and that's probably why I hit them so bad. However, when I finally did find something that suits me my ball striking improved a great deal. 

[cav5]

5 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

I never really paid attention to how my fairway woods align and that's probably why I hit them so bad. However, when I finally did find something that suits me my ball striking improved a great deal. 

 

yupp, all these things matter when it comes to actually playing and scoring. It doesn't have to make concious sense or sense to others.

[jomatty]

5 hours ago, chipa said:

 

With all due respect hitting a ball high doesn't mean it will stop quickly, thus making it difficult to judge where the ball will end up on the green. But I think many golfers that use these clubs are probably just happy to be on the green I suppose and I understand (I used to think like this) that but honestly they won't lower their hc that way.

 

As far as gapping goes my irons are at 10-11 yards which for me is perfect so that I never have in between shots. I think as long as one has 7 yards between clubs this is not any disadvantage as more clubs can be added at the top end if needed. According to the Trackman tour stats gapping with long irons is only 9 yards.

 

 

I think we just look at it differently.  If you are hitting it higher and they are knuckle balls than of course you will have difficulty stopping the ball.  If however, like most of the data I’ve seen suggests with the t100s, you are giving up a little spin, but not very much at all, then you should be able to stop the ball.  Steeper descent angle coupled with a slight reduction in spin should result in plenty of stopping power for most players.  Ymmv of course, and everyone’s game is different.  It’s best not to skin a cat, but there is more than one way to do it…

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by jomatty

[jomatty]

3 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

My experience is otherwise.  Was even told by a fitter, when I was there to buy new clubs, that I should stick with what I had (Golden Ram TW276).  My pattern was largely as described below.

 

Then there's this tiny snip from Terry Koehler's blog piece from years ago:

on dead center hits - our shot pattern was about 1/4 the size of the cavity back pattern

 

It is hard to believe that any tour player would sacrifice that sort precision.  That makes it difficult for me to completely believe that.

[ShowMe]

12 hours ago, R5Two said:

Personal opinion, don't do it. If you just don't play enough, it may be worth it just to have more fun, less feedback on bad ones. The one thing you will hear is distance consistency. I went from P7TW to ZX7 and while the ZX7 are incredible irons every once in a while I get a 5 yard jumper (mostly flyer lies, but some from tight lies too). I miss my blades.... yes your bad days won't be as bad, but you good days aren't as great either. My handicap has stayed at a 2.1 through 17 rounds with zx7s. 

 

Turf interaction is also much better with blades, especially for steeper swingers. 

 

How does turf interaction come into play if you hit the ball first and then the turf?  By the time you've hit the turf, the ball is already gone.

[ShowMe]

5 hours ago, rufus mangler said:

Went from Srixon 745 to Ping G25. Same lofts. Still feeling out short game shots, but the Pings are stupid easy to hit.

 

Agreed.  I feel like I'm cheating, they're so easy to hit well.

[Pepperturbo]

Switching from blades to GI doesn't necessarily mean you'll see lower scores.  It depends a great deal on your game.  Change to GI will more than likely give similar results.  Said because handicaps haven't gone down over the years, while GI irons specs have changed rather dramatically.  What you'll likely experience is more forgiveness, so your misses won't be short, maybe in a pond or shanks, chunks and thin shots will fade.  With that said, if your ball ends short in the pond, you didn't hit it hard enough to begin with, or you used the wrong club.  Anyway, lots of guys make that switch, many because they no longer practice or play much, so confidence may be ify...

 

As for me, I've played blades most of my golfing life.  However, I did have a lengthy stent with 2006 original Callaway X-forged irons, great club.  Then moved to 716CBs for some years, to when 620 MBs were introduced.  They were so pretty I had to go back to MBs.  Even at 70yrs old, I don't see needing much forgiveness, but at times its nice.  Reason I bought a set of 620 CBs too, and blend the sets, but hitting 4i MB or 4i CB is the same for me.  Whether the change to GI is fruitful or not, all depends on your approach to golf and ball striking.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[MUNIGRIT]

Are Ping i59 blades or GI?

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, ShowMe said:

 

How does turf interaction come into play if you hit the ball first and then the turf?  By the time you've hit the turf, the ball is already gone.

 

Addressed.  In a post to you, interestingly...  

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, ShowMe said:

 

How does turf interaction come into play if you hit the ball first and then the turf?  By the time you've hit the turf, the ball is already gone.

I hit the ball first, and turf interaction or scrape happens as I follow though from the strike.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[ShowMe]

7 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I hit the ball first, and turf interaction or scrape happens as I follow though from the strike.

 

Exactly.  So why does turn interaction even matter if you've already hit the ball.

[ShowMe]

13 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Addressed.  In a post to you, interestingly...  

 

 

 

Your post talks about VCOG.  What does that have to do with turf interaction?  VCOG has more to do with your angle of attack.

[Pepperturbo]

13 minutes ago, ShowMe said:

 

Exactly.  So why does turn interaction even matter if you've already hit the ball.

Why?  The best I can explain it is... Cause as I strike the ball, my club head is cutting through surface turf, which puts a premium on the sole design and leading edge.  For that reason, as a sweeper, I had the leading edge of my 620s shaved a bit more, so the club head's leading edge stays lower to the ground, which keeps my attention during my swing.  That's my reason, but I wouldn't attribute that to others though.

 

Check out recent past articles where Adam Scott talks about why he likes 680MBs.  He says something quite similar. 

[Pepperturbo]

31 minutes ago, ShowMe said:

 

Your post talks about VCOG.  What does that have to do with turf interaction?  VCOG has more to do with your angle of attack.

I thought VCOG and its iterations had to do with center of gravity positioning.

[ChipNRun]

This goes back to the previous century.

 

From 1974 to 1994, I played a set of MacGregor MT flatsoles (1971 model) with a MacGregor stiff shaft. Set ran 2i-10i. In years I could play several times a month, I usually shot in the mid-80s. In years I could only play a couple of times a month, I rarely broke 90 - you had to keep your swing blade-ready.

 

In 1994, I was custom-fitted for a set of Pro Tour Black irons. These were component irons based off of the Ping Eye2 model. Came with TT Dylalite S300 shafts - high launch cousin of Dynamic Golds. (Legend has it the PTBs were so good that Ping won a lawsuit against the maker. All unsold sets had to be melted down.)

 

With the PTBs, I immediately dropped five strokes off my scores. The head design + shaft launched the ball better, and I saw a jump in GIR. Also, the perimeter-weighted 3i was more reliable off the turf than the old blade 2i.

 

This was a case where GI technology fit my game better than (older) blade technology.

 

One thing I missed: it was difficult to hit a low runner when wanted due to enhanced launch of the model.

[R5Two]

6 hours ago, ShowMe said:

 

Exactly.  So why does turn interaction even matter if you've already hit the ball.

So dead honest apart from feel, it comes into play for me big time on two shots. Shot I hit slightly fat out of the fairway, and shots from thick rough. The best I can explain it is you can get away with *Slightly* fat shots with blades because they cut turf like butter, clubhead doesn't loose a ton of speed. High cut shots I tend to get a little too steep and sometimes they get a little fatty. Also, I am a bit of a steep swinger so balls nestled down in the rough I can cut out easily with P7TWs. With my zx7s if the ball nestles down they have a tendency to loose a bit of speed and the ball comes out a little flat. It's not unmanageable but you really have to look at the lie in the rough and how much grass is between you and the ball. 

 

Interesting question made me think! I always just loved the feeling of a full divot with a blade. Hot knife through butter. I am sure there are better more scientific answers but this is how it effects my confidence. 

[ShowMe]

44 minutes ago, R5Two said:

So dead honest apart from feel, it comes into play for me big time on two shots. Shot I hit slightly fat out of the fairway, and shots from thick rough. The best I can explain it is you can get away with *Slightly* fat shots with blades because they cut turf like butter, clubhead doesn't loose a ton of speed. High cut shots I tend to get a little too steep and sometimes they get a little fatty. Also, I am a bit of a steep swinger so balls nestled down in the rough I can cut out easily with P7TWs. With my zx7s if the ball nestles down they have a tendency to loose a bit of speed and the ball comes out a little flat. It's not unmanageable but you really have to look at the lie in the rough and how much grass is between you and the ball. 

 

Interesting question made me think! I always just loved the feeling of a full divot with a blade. Hot knife through butter. I am sure there are better more scientific answers but this is how it effects my confidence. 

 

Wait.  I thought that clubs with a wider sole and more bounce were better on fat shots because the club will mostly bounce off the ground and then into the ball as opposed to digging?

[ShowMe]

6 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Why?  The best I can explain it is... Cause as I strike the ball, my club head is cutting through surface turf, which puts a premium on the sole design and leading edge.  For that reason, as a sweeper, I had the leading edge of my 620s shaved a bit more, so the club head's leading edge stays lower to the ground, which keeps my attention during my swing.  That's my reason, but I wouldn't attribute that to others though.

 

Check out recent past articles where Adam Scott talks about why he likes 680MBs.  He says something quite similar. 

 

Got it.  You hit the ball and the turf at the same time, as opposed to the ball first then the turf.  Turf interaction would indeed matter in that case.

[R5Two]

15 minutes ago, ShowMe said:

 

Wait.  I thought that clubs with a wider sole and more bounce were better on fat shots because the club will mostly bounce off the ground and then into the ball as opposed to digging?

You are absolutely right in theory more bounce, wider sole all do prevent digging. I think for me I don't like that feeling of the club bouncing itself out, I like a nice divot. Now if I hit way behind the ball I am sure I would love all the bounce out I could get, but when the divot starts right at the ball or VERY slightly behind I consider it slightly fat and I just feel like I lose very little distance with a blade. The reason I mention it is because it is opposite of what I expected and most people think. 

 

Fat shots with the wider soles still turn out ok, I just normally hear a weird slap sound, and I feel like I loose a ton of clubhead speed. 

 

If I hit a truly fat shot with either club, they go nowhere and I pretend like a bee stung me. 

[Titleist_PT23]

15 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

The proverbial flip side is that your good days won't be as good.  On good hits, CBs have a wider dispersion pattern.

 

Obviously, it's player dependent.  Anyone's good days need to be good enough to take advantage.  😉

 

Have a friend who's always been around my hdcp, as low as an 8 a few years ago, IIRC.  Not good with irons, even on his best day.  Definitely not a candidate for anything more than the Ping G series he's playing.

 

Spieth's good days aren't too bad.  I guess he'd probably shoot in the 40s for 18 with a set of 620 MBs or a specialized set of 681 JS?

 

Maybe that's Spieth's problem; his irons are holding back his good days and that's stopping him from winning more majors.

 

All of this is the same; if you stand over the ball thinking you can't hit it well, you aren't going to hit it well.  Driver length, fairway vs. hybrid, hybrid vs. long iron, iron design, etc, etc, etc.  People without a preconceived notion can play just about anything after a few swings/rounds and shoot whatever their ability allows them to do.