I need help, I have tired for 6+ years and its still the same......insert Einstein quote.

[Exactice808]

16 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Thank you for posting those. Despite all the superficial differences in those swings I am seeing one big thing in common with all of them, and that is a backswing that is ending with a disconnection of your hands and arms that then requires a save/compensation later in transition. In these three different swings we see a beautiful example of a concept Monte has talked about before; what happens when we attempt to do the "right" things from the wrong places. Let me explain my understanding of how this works a bit and how it applies to your swings. 

We're told we need to do all these things to transition "correctly" to make consistent contact. Fire the lower body, drop the hands into a "slot", maintain depth during our rotation, don't flip/cast/hump and all these things. Then there is the very simple idea that since this is all attempting to happen in around 1/4 of a second that there is no way we can consciously engage with/execute on these movements, there just isn't enough time. The focus then has to shift more towards "setting the table" properly so these things are more "allowed to happen" than we force them to. So let's take a look:



Starting from P2, the club is right over your hands so that is a good place to start. You continue back a little flatter/deeper a la Mcilroy, which is fine, BUT it means there are certain things that need to happen re: "setting the table". Flatter and deeper in the backswing means a premium is placed on both rotation and keeping your hands from getting stuck behind you. Worth noting as well, your head is getting closer to the ball at this stage, which for many people can be a bit of a trigger to early extend since "head moving towards the ball" is often countered with "head moving away from the ball" later in the swing, which our body often accomplishes by standing up/losing spine angle to back up. This isn't the main issue, but its a contributing factor IMO. 



Here is where the issue starts. The shaft plane and clubhead start changing drastically here with otherwise minimal body movement. This is the beginning of your hands/arms getting disconnected and overrunning. 



You continue to tuck the club further behind you here, and we see that club actually starting to cross the line in transition. These things don't *look* bad in isolation, but it is what your body did to get there that is the important part. 



Looking closely at Rory here as an example, everything is more or less moving together. On your end though, you reach a natural "top" of your backswing, but then hinge the club behind you and start pulling your right shoulder further back. Notice how Rory's left shoulder basically never stops turning up to the top of the backswing, and notice how at the beginning of your gif that your left shoulder has basically stopped and your right shoulder breaks away and starts dropping behind you. You've disconnected your right side to create a new "hinge" to continue your backswing. In these few frames you have created a whole mess of little things that need to be undone/compensated for, you've "set the table" in such a way that recovering from this becomes a big part of your downswing, and your ability to do that will always be a roll of the dice. I'm sure you've found little "Aha moments" that have helped you deal with this, but the fact they haven't lasted is because you likely haven't treated the underlying problem. 

A version of this exists in the other swings you posted as well where it looks like you experimented with different, flatter positions:



This backswing position is very hard to salvage. It has everything I described above but *more*. Your hands are so far behind you and disconnected from your body, and the clubhead has gotten so far around you that all your focus and energy shifts towards finding a way to get the club back to the ball. Setting the table "correctly" means minimizing the number of things you need to "fix" to get to the ball, and the above position has so many things in need of fixing that it makes perfect sense your early extension and loss of spine angle is the most extreme here. 

Getting rid of these extra moves at the top and swinging within what your body can handle is crucial if you want to get back on track. @LBB is right about the mental components, but @Socrates is right in that no amount of mental fortitude can make up for foundational flaws in a swing. It can help you deal WITH them, but it doesn't fix them and the permanent roll of the dice they introduce. Shorten your backswing (make what feels like 3/4 swings) and get used to that as a new normal. You'll probably lose speed at first, but it will return as you adjust. If this move has come about because you're trying to "complete your backswing" or "make a full turn", then adjust to the idea that you already did, but kept going and are now out of balance. 

I hope that resonates and please feel free to follow up if you decide to try this out. 

DANG! I was hoping to catch you before you did anything with some of the old videos.  To be fair these videos stretch from 2016 to 2019 so a lot could change from current.

 

I WILL agree that I still suffer from much you have explained. BUT what I want to do is try not to do anything, so you can see the most "Current swings" to see and changes from members here over the recent.  SHUCKS you did so much work so I appreciate it. I will work to get current videos available for you to better analyze what is going on currently.   Thank you Thank you Truly.

I wont respond right here and now as I do not want to implant thoughts in my head before I get some legit current videos set.

[Valtiel]

7 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

DANG! I was hoping to catch you before you did anything with some of the old videos.  To be fair these videos stretch from 2016 to 2019 so a lot could change from current.

 

I WILL agree that I still suffer from much you have explained. BUT what I want to do is try not to do anything, so you can see the most "Current swings" to see and changes from members here over the recent.  SHUCKS you did so much work so I appreciate it. I will work to get current videos available for you to better analyze what is going on currently.   Thank you Thank you Truly.

I wont respond right here and now as I do not want to implant thoughts in my head before I get some legit current videos set.

Gotcha, no worries! I only did that because the same things existed across several years per the dates on the videos, so I assumed it was still a current problem. Feel free to post a more current one and i'll take a look at that too. 👍

[Exactice808]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Gotcha, no worries! I only did that because the same things existed across several years per the dates on the videos, so I assumed it was still a current problem. Feel free to post a more current one and i'll take a look at that too. 👍

Well! I failed and this is likely why I didnt want to post video's. Its discouraging. Nothing has changed in the slightest.

 

The feels vs reals is almost a joke, I feel like I have shortened my swing, 

I feel like I have tried raise my swing arc from flat..... but bleh its the same problem, head drops, over swing, over the top, early extension etc.
 

Alright, GolfWRX family do your worst!  I am all mentally messed up anyways, no criticism will hurt me anymore than I am already hurting LOL! 
 

 

Alright let me read through your post and WTF am I doing wrong and why cant I fix it? 

[Valtiel]

30 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Well! I failed and this is likely why I didnt want to post video's. Its discouraging. Nothing has changed in the slightest.

 

The feels vs reals is almost a joke, I feel like I have shortened my swing, 

I feel like I have tried raise my swing arc from flat..... but bleh its the same problem, head drops, over swing, over the top, early extension etc.
 

Alright, GolfWRX family do your worst!  I am all mentally messed up anyways, no criticism will hurt me anymore than I am already hurting LOL! 
 

 

Alright let me read through your post and WTF am I doing wrong and why cant I fix it? 

I wouldn't be too pessimistic here, I WISH that my FIL who I am starting to give advice to was starting from a place like this. There is no single thing that is massively fundamentally wrong here, you just look like you're stuck in some patterns that you need to get away from. 

The trend in all your videos is your hands getting too flat at behind you in one form another, that is safe to say with 6 years worth of different types of swing that all likely had different "feels". This is an important part of developing feel here, learning about the things that you haven't been able to feel (yet). Despite all the things you likely felt were big departures from what you did before, the same underlying tendency appears to have been there, so it is a matter of figuring out how to connect to that and feel it. The concerning trend in the videos is that as time has gone (according to the timeline they're establishing) on you've gotten flatter and flatter, which will only serve to hurt you more based on what you're struggling with. Not a huge amount, but the 2015 video had a decently on plane backswing that flattened out a bit, and your 2021 swing get getting flatter and more inside earlier. 



Part of this is exaggerated by the angle and focal length, but this club is still much further behind your hands and inside than your swings from 2015. If I was standing here filming you doing this, and this was you rehearsing a backswing, I would grab the clubhead with my left hand at this point and drag it out to the right (from left to right in this screenshot) and tell you to try to keep it out there in your backswing. Right now you're rolling your arms over early and the club is getting around behind you. This is not necessarily a problem as there are a few pros that do this, but it requires a very specific and slightly unorthodox compensation to work, one that you definitely aren't doing. 
 

See Berger's swing as a good example of things you have to do to make the "arms stuck behind you" move actually work. NOT conventional. 

So i'm going to propose something that can hopefully help while also being fun at the same time, something that is purely an exercise with no expected "correct" outcome. With the ability to video yourself (preferably from a littler further away so we can see the whole picture), put on a video of Justin Thomas' swing and see if you can get your hands that high in your backswing, JUST for fun. I don't want you to hurt yourself or try to do anything else that he does movement wise, and I don't even necessarily want you to even hit a ball (although you might want to try), JUST see if you can get your hands that high to feel what that feels like. The purpose is just to exaggerate something opposite from what you're doing now, this isn't a swing tip or something you should try to integrate into your swing, this just a feel exercise. Pros exaggerate things like this all the time in drills, and it sounds like something that can get you to really start feeling where the club is actually going. 

Just a thought, you don't have to do it if you don't want of course, but I get the feeling you're open to advice at the moment, hah. Overall you're stuck between one plane and two plane swing behaviors and positions without an underlying coordination (use childhood developed stuff) to make these things work. Ideally you pick a direction and learn how to feel the things you need to feel to make that direction work. 

[Exactice808]

14 hours ago, Valtiel said:

I wouldn't be too pessimistic here, I WISH that my FIL who I am starting to give advice to was starting from a place like this. There is no single thing that is massively fundamentally wrong here, you just look like you're stuck in some patterns that you need to get away from. 

The trend in all your videos is your hands getting too flat at behind you in one form another, that is safe to say with 6 years worth of different types of swing that all likely had different "feels". This is an important part of developing feel here, learning about the things that you haven't been able to feel (yet). Despite all the things you likely felt were big departures from what you did before, the same underlying tendency appears to have been there, so it is a matter of figuring out how to connect to that and feel it. The concerning trend in the videos is that as time has gone (according to the timeline they're establishing) on you've gotten flatter and flatter, which will only serve to hurt you more based on what you're struggling with. Not a huge amount, but the 2015 video had a decently on plane backswing that flattened out a bit, and your 2021 swing get getting flatter and more inside earlier. 



Part of this is exaggerated by the angle and focal length, but this club is still much further behind your hands and inside than your swings from 2015. If I was standing here filming you doing this, and this was you rehearsing a backswing, I would grab the clubhead with my left hand at this point and drag it out to the right (from left to right in this screenshot) and tell you to try to keep it out there in your backswing. Right now you're rolling your arms over early and the club is getting around behind you. This is not necessarily a problem as there are a few pros that do this, but it requires a very specific and slightly unorthodox compensation to work, one that you definitely aren't doing. 
 

See Berger's swing as a good example of things you have to do to make the "arms stuck behind you" move actually work. NOT conventional. 

So i'm going to propose something that can hopefully help while also being fun at the same time, something that is purely an exercise with no expected "correct" outcome. With the ability to video yourself (preferably from a littler further away so we can see the whole picture), put on a video of Justin Thomas' swing and see if you can get your hands that high in your backswing, JUST for fun. I don't want you to hurt yourself or try to do anything else that he does movement wise, and I don't even necessarily want you to even hit a ball (although you might want to try), JUST see if you can get your hands that high to feel what that feels like. The purpose is just to exaggerate something opposite from what you're doing now, this isn't a swing tip or something you should try to integrate into your swing, this just a feel exercise. Pros exaggerate things like this all the time in drills, and it sounds like something that can get you to really start feeling where the club is actually going. 

Just a thought, you don't have to do it if you don't want of course, but I get the feeling you're open to advice at the moment, hah. Overall you're stuck between one plane and two plane swing behaviors and positions without an underlying coordination (use childhood developed stuff) to make these things work. Ideally you pick a direction and learn how to feel the things you need to feel to make that direction work. 

Sorry about the distance in the video,  Not much room in that area,  When I get to a range to get better videos I will take a better video, but I wanted to do some justice to get you the most current video, I could get ASAP. so not to skew your valuable information. 

 

Hello! @Valtiel. I appreciate your efforts in this thread.  I intended to vent in the General golf thread and once direction was established create an actual Instruction thread. But again we seem to have been moved to the instruction side. 

 

 

OK so with that being said, I have a lot more questions.

 

1) Over exaggeration.  If we are talking about just doing it to get a feel then in my mind would a "Matthew Wolff" over exaggeration work,  Club head works well outside the hand plane, arms go vertical,  club is not laid off and well across the line.   At the top of the back swing the shaft and elbow have to shallow to get hitting from the inside?  I am not trying to mimic the swing but exaggerate to break some of the old habits?

 

2) I completely understand my fault, I understand your explanation,  I have a really dumb question,  if my swing arc is vertical compared to flatter,  with my current tendency to come over the top and early extend.  Would I not just be coming more over the top and possibly sh^&*king like crazy,  As there would no room/space for me to get the club face to the ball?  OR is my body really going to respond.  (when I said dumb, because I am afraid to try it I have no Idea so without trying I would not know).  PS I have not tried to hit a ball with the over exaggeration, just wanted to "drill" first

 

2a) My body is doing something to compensate to hit the ball in the first place.  So on my takeaway my body is taking the club back inside and flat to begin with? What would those reasons be?

2b) At this point, I should not care in the slightest about hitting a ball or even direction? As the goal is to just retrain the movement? I should NOT care about the resulting shot? just get the body moving.

 

OK so this is really going to annoy some people but I really want to try something else.

You know my swing?  Its my swing, it something I seem to be doing all the time right?  Why cant it be "consistent" to hit the ball in the same direction for a good dispersion?  I mean I dont expect tour level ball striking,  but if I can repeat it and it goes say a slice but slices all the time, why am I not able to repeat it.  Why does it change so darn much?


Anyways....... I have no excuse not to practice and drill at home so I think I can make an even more valiant effort to make actual change.  (excuse) before it was harder to get to the range and or drill at my old home (no space)  But I have the space/facility and a hitting bay with a simulator. So the extra effort could be longer lasting.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Exactice808

[Krt22]

On 10/19/2021 at 12:58 PM, Exactice808 said:

 

 

I am assuming I have been "practicing" almost as much as I did years ago (no kids lol)  when I was down to a single digit. Yet I am worse than I was a couple years ago by a LOT.

 

Im losing a crap ton of confidence and worst off blowing $3000 has netted me nothing but higher scores..  I wont say its buyers remorse, but I thought practice would help...... 

 

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

You are focusing on the outcome and not the movement. Launch monitors are great to monitor progress, they are not great to try to force progress. It is very easy to get into a groove on a monitor and time compensations such that the results seem favorable. Those compensations simply don't hold up on the course. You obviously have some swing flaws that lead to inconsistency, if you want to dramatically improve, you need to change the way you move.

 

1) Get an instructor  so you can focus on the most pressing issues in your swing. If you don't have a local one, I highly suggest Monte or Dan for online/remote lessons so they can at least point you in the right direction so you aren't just spinning your wheels. Monte's improvement plan is even better. You've been trying to do it on your own for years and have stagnated, it's obviously time for a change.

 

2)When you are practicing, focus on the movement, period. The results don't matter as much as making the movement change. Turn off the monitor during these segments of practice so you don't get side tracked chasing numbers or getting discouraged with the outcome of the shot. 

 

3) Once you start making measurable movement changes in video, accept there will be a relearning period of how to get the club to the ball.  Once you start making decent contact, then turn on the monitor and see how the ball flight changes.

 

Keep doing this over and over and over. The minute you think "you have it", guess what you likely don't. Much like losing weight, improving your swing is not a one and done venture, it requires commitment and constant maintenance. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Krt22

[Exactice808]

9 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

You are focusing on the outcome and not the movement. Launch monitors are great to monitor progress, they are not great to try to force progress. It is very easy to get into a groove on a monitor and time compensations such that the results seem favorable. Those compensations simply don't hold up on the course. You obviously have some swing flaws that lead to inconsistency, if you want to dramatically improve, you need to change the way you move.

 

1) Get an instructor  so you can focus on the most pressing issues in your swing. If you don't have a local one, I highly suggest Monte or Dan for online/remote lessons so they can at least point you in the right direction so you aren't just spinning your wheels. Monte's improvement plan is even better. You've been trying to do it on your own for years and have stagnated, it's obviously time for a change.

 

2)When you are practicing, focus on the movement, period. The results don't matter as much as making the movement change. Turn off the monitor during these segments of practice so you don't get side tracked chasing numbers or getting discouraged with the outcome of the shot. 

 

3) Once you start making measurable movement changes in video, accept there will be a relearning period of how to get the club to the ball.  Once you start making decent contact, then turn on the monitor and see how the ball flight changes.

 

Keep doing this over and over and over. The minute you think "you have it", guess what you likely don't. Much like losing weight, improving your swing is not a one and done venture, it requires commitment and constant maintenance. 

Hey @Krt22  You have been another wonderful poster over the years trying to help me! I really do appreciate your insight.

 

I have a stupid questions.... Its how my mind works.

 

Isn't "outcome" the point of golf,  we are trying to get it to the little hole?  So no matter how crappy the swing is if its consistent and gets to the hole...for me that should be the result.

 

example- playing with my old guys,  he doesnt hit it high, doesnt hit it far, when hit plays par 3s the ball never makes it to the hole, lands 10-20y short, but roles up to the hole more times than I 3 putt...

Its not a tour level swing, but its consistent,  Im sure there are flaws, but its consistent?

what is wrong with me?  I need to get past the above,  ego, pride, just suck? Etc? Insight thoughts? 

[Krt22]

4 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Hey @Krt22  You have been another wonderful poster over the years trying to help me! I really do appreciate your insight.

 

I have a stupid questions.... Its how my mind works.

 

Isn't "outcome" the point of golf,  we are trying to get it to the little hole?  So no matter how crappy the swing is if its consistent and gets to the hole...for me that should be the result.

 

example- playing with my old guys,  he doesnt hit it high, doesnt hit it far, when hit plays par 3s the ball never makes it to the hole, lands 10-20y short, but roles up to the hole more times than I 3 putt...

Its not a tour level swing, but its consistent,  Im sure there are flaws, but its consistent?

what is wrong with me?  I need to get past the above,  ego, pride, just suck? Etc? Insight thoughts? 

Outcome is absolutely the point of golf, but the ball flight outcome isn't the immediate point of improving your swing.  Bad swings can still produce good shots, as we all know even a broken clock is right twice a day. On the range or indoors with a monitor, bad swings can even produce a numerous good shots...from a perfect lie, with no pressure, hitting the same club over and over.  There are guys who can't break 100 who have hole in ones and there are guys who are scratch who still don't. Good swings produce much more consistently good shots (or at the very least lessen the magnitude of the bad shots). If you are interested in dramatically improving, the ball flight isn't nearly as important as improving your movement. If your movement was not the issue, your game would not continue to stagnate for years. 

[Exactice808]

14 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Outcome is absolutely the point of golf, but the ball flight outcome isn't the immediate point of improving your swing.  Bad swings can still produce good shots, as we all know even a broken clock is right twice a day. On the range or indoors with a monitor, bad swings can even produce a numerous good shots...from a perfect lie, with no pressure, hitting the same club over and over.  There are guys who can't break 100 who have hole in ones and there are guys who are scratch who still don't. Good swings produce much more consistently good shots (or at the very least lessen the magnitude of the bad shots). If you are interested in dramatically improving, the ball flight isn't nearly as important as improving your movement. If your movement was not the issue, your game would not continue to stagnate for years. 

Makes perfect sense.... The reason I ask this is that FACTUALLY I am not improving or I seem to regress.  My thought process before I even swing a club is wrong. Before I can swing a club, I need to re think my efforts to swing a club, THEN properly swing a club.

 

I currently realizing that its not that I am not trying hard enough, or understanding it enough. My thought "process" is inhibiting my ability to apply or even realize change.

 

This is also why my bad attitude on the course makes it worse.

 

Interesting.  I need to "let go" something mentally before I let go within the golf swing?

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, Exactice808 said:

Makes perfect sense.... The reason I ask this is that FACTUALLY I am not improving or I seem to regress.  My thought process before I even swing a club is wrong. Before I can swing a club, I need to re think my efforts to swing a club, THEN properly swing a club.

 

I currently realizing that its not that I am not trying hard enough, or understanding it enough. My thought "process" is inhibiting my ability to apply or even realize change.

 

This is also why my bad attitude on the course makes it worse.

 

Interesting.  I need to "let go" something mentally before I let go within the golf swing?

Yes, your process is flawed because you seem to think there is some mental barrier that is preventing you from improving. 

 

Do you have an instructor? 

[Precis1on]

1 hour ago, Exactice808 said:

1) Over exaggeration.  If we are talking about just doing it to get a feel then in my mind would a "Matthew Wolff" over exaggeration work,  Club head works well outside the hand plane, arms go vertical,  club is not laid off and well across the line.   At the top of the back swing the shaft and elbow have to shallow to get hitting from the inside?  I am not trying to mimic the swing but exaggerate to break some of the old habits?

 

2) I completely understand my fault, I understand your explanation,  I have a really dumb question,  if my swing arc is vertical compared to flatter,  with my current tendency to come over the top and early extend.  Would I not just be coming more over the top and possibly sh^&*king like crazy,  As there would no room/space for me to get the club face to the ball?  OR is my body really going to respond.  (when I said dumb, because I am afraid to try it I have no Idea so without trying I would not know).  PS I have not tried to hit a ball with the over exaggeration, just wanted to "drill" first

 

2a) My body is doing something to compensate to hit the ball in the first place.  So on my takeaway my body is taking the club back inside and flat to begin with? What would those reasons be?

2b) At this point, I should not care in the slightest about hitting a ball or even direction? As the goal is to just retrain the movement? I should NOT care about the resulting shot? just get the body moving.

 

OK so this is really going to annoy some people but I really want to try something else.

You know my swing?  Its my swing, it something I seem to be doing all the time right?  Why cant it be "consistent" to hit the ball in the same direction for a good dispersion?  I mean I dont expect tour level ball striking,  but if I can repeat it and it goes say a slice but slices all the time, why am I not able to repeat it.  Why does it change so darn much?

 

A lot to dissect here, but I'll try to summarize some of my thoughts....

 

The majority of amateurs (and even pros), struggle with something in the golf swing that causes a compensation. Finding a coach that is able to point that out and help you alleviate it is the fastest way to improving the swing as a whole. And often it's simpler than you think, but HARD to fix. 

 

For the backswing, the postulation is that if you're too long or too much depth in the backswing, the only way to get the club back out is to fling it out (and you're really not OTT, maybe a hair steep but it's not that bad). The thought is that if you get more vertical and less deep, that may help you correct your transition/downswing. However, usually when you make a backswing change, you eventually need to make a second change to match it up in your transition. 

 

When you are practicing and grooving new swing feels and patterns on the range, you need to think less on where the ball is going and more on how your body is feeling out new movements. On the course, you go out and focus on getting the ball where it needs to go and ignore swing changes and let them happen organically. The process in making swing changes ingrained takes months, and most people either have the range and course concepts backwards or don't give it enough time and revert. 

 

Golf swings change all the time, it just happens that trying to hit a tiny ball with a club introduces a lot of room for error. This is literally a game of degrees where a differential of 1-5 degrees one way or another changes the outcome substantially. Most of us can't feel the difference when our swings are off by 1-2 degrees, yet when making a change of 1-2 degrees sometimes it feels like it's a 90 degree change. The more compensations you have, the less chance that you will make consistent contact. 

 

Sorry this was long, break it up responses if needed. 

[Krt22]

4 minutes ago, Precis1on said:

 

A lot to dissect here, but I'll try to summarize some of my thoughts....

 

The majority of amateurs (and even pros), struggle with something in the golf swing that causes a compensation. Finding a coach that is able to point that out and help you alleviate it is the fastest way to improving the swing as a whole. And often it's simpler than you think, but HARD to fix. 

 

For the backswing, the postulation is that if you're too long or too much depth in the backswing, the only way to get the club back out is to fling it out (and you're really not OTT, maybe a hair steep but it's not that bad). The thought is that if you get more vertical and less deep, that may help you correct your transition/downswing. However, usually when you make a backswing change, you eventually need to make a second change to match it up in your transition. 

 

When you are practicing and grooving new swing feels and patterns on the range, you need to think less on where the ball is going and more on how your body is feeling out new movements. On the course, you go out and focus on getting the ball where it needs to go and ignore swing changes and let them happen organically. The process in making swing changes ingrained takes months, and most people either have the range and course concepts backwards or don't give it enough time and revert. 

 

Golf swings change all the time, it just happens that trying to hit a tiny ball with a club introduces a lot of room for error. This is literally a game of degrees where a differential of 1-5 degrees one way or another changes the outcome substantially. Most of us can't feel the difference when our swings are off by 1-2 degrees, yet when making a change of 1-2 degrees sometimes it feels like it's a 90 degree change. The more compensations you have, the less chance that you will make consistent contact. 

 

Sorry this was long, break it up responses if needed. 

Very well said. Especially how backing backswing changes then lead to making transition changes. That is a really difficult area to self-diagnose and where a good instructor is really helpful

[aenemated]

32 minutes ago, Precis1on said:

trying to hit a tiny ball with a club introduces a lot of room for error.

 

Funny, isn't it?

 

The difference between hitting the sweet spot and a cold, hard shank is around an inch, give or take. Yet how much does the clubhead move around from takeaway to transition to impact?

 

It's a damn miracle we hit the ball at all 😂

[Precis1on]

1 hour ago, aenemated said:

 

Funny, isn't it?

 

The difference between hitting the sweet spot and a cold, hard shank is around an inch, give or take. Yet how much does the clubhead move around from takeaway to transition to impact?

 

It's a damn miracle we hit the ball at all 😂

 

Our bodies and minds are amazing things. They'll do whatever it takes to make contact. Good, bad, and the ugly. A lot of what golf simply is = slowly removing the bad and ugly (especially if it's something that'll lead to injury) and letting the body and mind learn whatever it takes to make contact. Rinse and repeat. 

[Exactice808]

1 minute ago, Precis1on said:

 

Our bodies and minds are amazing things. They'll do whatever it takes to make contact. Good, bad, and the ugly. A lot of what golf simply is = slowly removing the bad and ugly (especially if it's something that'll lead to injury) and letting the body and mind learn whatever it takes to make contact. Rinse and repeat. 

Of course this is going against @Krt22 That my mind is stopping me from getting past my swing faults?

 

I am trying to get into X positions, not allowing the body to do the right thing, then I try to make an excuse like, Isnt that move going to make me MORE over the top etc so I am hesisitant to maintain the new learned positions......

 

Its seems like I am facing a mental block as big as my swing issues? 

[Precis1on]

9 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

Of course this is going against @Krt22 That my mind is stopping me from getting past my swing faults?

 

I am trying to get into X positions, not allowing the body to do the right thing, then I try to make an excuse like, Isnt that move going to make me MORE over the top etc so I am hesisitant to maintain the new learned positions......

 

Its seems like I am facing a mental block as big as my swing issues? 

 

I don't think Krt22 and I are misaligned, I think we're saying that it's your process of analyzing and implementing changes for improvement is incorrect. There's nothing actually mentally blocking YOU from making a change. Your process of measuring improvement is incorrect, which can be a different mental block yes. 

 

I'll give you an example from what I'm working on right now. Monte did a brief lookover on video to see the progress what we were working in prior, and said that I needed to have more ulnar deviation from the top and my hands/arms weren't working in the right direction in transition (was getting steep). Didn't give me much more than that, I knew that he was right and he knew that I would at least know where to start to fix it. 

 

After re-reviewing NTC and Broomforce for some drills, I got myself on vid and found I was STEEPER than when I started. The NTC throw wasn't working for me. I knew though what I was doing before wasn't correct, so I went and searched for a feel that would give me the right change and outcome. Turns out, if I feel like I stand the shaft up vertical with just my hands in transition, it's the right exaggeration that I need. 

 

tl;dr - I didn't block myself when a change wasn't giving me the right body and club movement outcome. It took two months of hard battling to figure it out. But I also understood I had a very simple outcome to achieve, which was shallow the shaft better in transition with my hands and also not put the body into any compromising positions. All I focused on was that I was doing something wrong, and I needed to make it right. 

[Exactice808]

13 minutes ago, Precis1on said:

 

I don't think Krt22 and I are misaligned, I think we're saying that it's your process of analyzing and implementing changes for improvement is incorrect. There's nothing actually mentally blocking YOU from making a change. Your process of measuring improvement is incorrect, which can be a different mental block yes. 

 

I'll give you an example from what I'm working on right now. Monte did a brief lookover on video to see the progress what we were working in prior, and said that I needed to have more ulnar deviation from the top and my hands/arms weren't working in the right direction in transition (was getting steep). Didn't give me much more than that, I knew that he was right and he knew that I would at least know where to start to fix it. 

 

After re-reviewing NTC and Broomforce for some drills, I got myself on vid and found I was STEEPER than when I started. The NTC throw wasn't working for me. I knew though what I was doing before wasn't correct, so I went and searched for a feel that would give me the right change and outcome. Turns out, if I feel like I stand the shaft up vertical with just my hands in transition, it's the right exaggeration that I need. 

 

tl;dr - I didn't block myself when a change wasn't giving me the right body and club movement outcome. It took two months of hard battling to figure it out. But I also understood I had a very simple outcome to achieve, which was shallow the shaft better in transition with my hands and also not put the body into any compromising positions. All I focused on was that I was doing something wrong, and I needed to make it right. 

My Apologies to you and @Krt22, the comment was in jest more out of frustration rather than malice to either of you.

 

there are valuable people here that have provided valuable info, to me it almost seems like I am disrespecting those that take the time to provide meaningful info and I cant apply. To me thats where I am the most frustrated. 

 

That and all the videos, all the reading, and practice and drills and such yet..... back as square one.  

 

For me right now is, how do I take this valuable info and make it stick, how can I apply it, drill it so it works?  Because whatever I am doing is not working. 
 

[Precis1on]

1 hour ago, Exactice808 said:

My Apologies to you and @Krt22, the comment was in jest more out of frustration rather than malice to either of you.

 

there are valuable people here that have provided valuable info, to me it almost seems like I am disrespecting those that take the time to provide meaningful info and I cant apply. To me thats where I am the most frustrated. 

 

That and all the videos, all the reading, and practice and drills and such yet..... back as square one.  

 

For me right now is, how do I take this valuable info and make it stick, how can I apply it, drill it so it works?  Because whatever I am doing is not working. 
 

No worries, I didn’t take it as malice. There are a lot of ways to approach the game and often two things that sound different are actually the same.

 

I do my best to keep it simple. 

1.) Get a lesson, online or in person, with a good instructor. There are many on this forum.

2.) They will tell you what’s holding you back. This is what you work on and ignore the noise.

3.) Video and video lots. I was really happy to finally get a setup where I could use Swingcatalyst to force myself to review to see if my feel translates to real. 

4.) Give yourself time. 4-6 months minimum if you practice multiple times weekly. More time if you practice less. 
 

May be subtle, and I just realized it in the way I talk about change. If you re-read, I said nothing about how I ended up striking the ball. I was only happy after two months of struggle to realize even how to visualize a change. Most midcap amateurs who “find the drill” and suddenly say “striping everything” are only going to be frustrated in a week. Can guarantee that if you put their swings next to one another they’re exactly the same. Change is hard, and harder to embrace the struggle. 

[Krt22]

2 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

My Apologies to you and @Krt22, the comment was in jest more out of frustration rather than malice to either of you.

 

there are valuable people here that have provided valuable info, to me it almost seems like I am disrespecting those that take the time to provide meaningful info and I cant apply. To me thats where I am the most frustrated. 

 

That and all the videos, all the reading, and practice and drills and such yet..... back as square one.  

 

For me right now is, how do I take this valuable info and make it stick, how can I apply it, drill it so it works?  Because whatever I am doing is not working. 
 

You aren't disrespecting anyone and at the end of the day it's really no skin off anyone's back if you don't get better at golf. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

 

My main point is whatever process that you have been using for the past few years simply isn't working, since you have not made much progress. All this "mental block" stuff is not the issue and a cop out IMHO, its fundamentally how you are approaching change. There isn't some magical juice or thought that is going to fundamentally change the way you are swinging the club. You think you know what needs to change, what position you need to be in, etc, but in reality you just don't have the proper tool chest to get there. I did the same exact thing for 2 or so years thinking I could figure things out on my own, I was wrong. The whole "you need to grind it out and find it in the dirt, just go by the ball flght" line of reasoning is almost universally bad if your swing is fundamentally flawed. You will absolutely hit a plateau until you resolve the main fundamental issue(s)

 

I have asked if you have an instructor and you never answered, so I am going to assume the answer is no, which at this point is likely your number 1 problem. All of the info you have absorbed isn't useless and it isn't for nothing, but its very likely that you need some professional help to focus and apply all that knowledge in a productive manner. The best players in the world have instructors, go through big ruts, change instructors when certain things are clicking, etc. Don't take it as a personal failure, golf is hard. It's even harder if you have the "I can do anything" personality type and avoid professional help

 

You need to find a good instructor, identify your main swing flaw, and work on that and only that until your instructor says "ok, lets move onto the next thing". Or you can keep doing what you are doing and chasing your tail.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Krt22

[uitar9]

For me, I have discovered that "fixing a swing by blah blah blah" does not make sense. I don't understand angles and speeds. Makes no sense to me. That could be age. 

 

What makes sense to me is changing my club face to correct where my ball goes. and most of that I do through setup. Trial and error at the range. That's one of my practice items.

 

Don't know why it helps, but slo motion no ball swinging, has really helped me figure out club face.

 

The other is hitting to targets at the range. Its helped me get out of difficult situations and to  "take dead aim". Just hitting balls does not help me.

 

Blow up holes-yup. Usually happens when I hit into trouble and forget to follow it with a smart get out of jail shot. I'm not a risk taker in life and not a risk taker in golf. Trouble happens when I forget and take stupid risk shots.

 

Expectations? Aren't they a b****. I'm 68. I've managed an 89 a couple times the past two years and a 73 on a par 68 last year. I've gotta realise my physical limitations.

 

Playing with a couple of guys who were attempting to qualify for a Mackenzie tour event through a Monday qualifier put that into perspective. They were 5/6 cappers. Shot 71 and 73 respectively. Top 10 all shot -5 and better.

 

But it doesn't stop me enjoying time out with my wife, family golf vacays and with friends and strangers. 

 

 

[Nels55]

@Exactice808, I feel your pain!  LOL been there done that.  Still go there on occasion.  I had a year and a half of intense lessons and training with little to no effect on my swing mechanics.  Some swing changes are really difficult and require serious focus and repetition.  I have sometimes been able to make good changes and sometimes not.  Still working on it. LOL

 

As far as the mental side goes I have tried a lot of stuff some of which seems to work pretty well.  I know the feeling of losing it and not being able to stop the landslide of bad shots.  I guess that you could say that I have always been rather streaky.  One thing that does seem to work for me is to not demand perfection while standing over a shot.  I tell myself that I am going to some bad shots and some good ones today and then I think 'what the heck this might be a good one'.  Thinking of good shots that I have hit in in similar situations in the past before hitting the current shot is also useful.  I play my best when I have a mindset of being a sort of casual observer of my body making the swing.  When I have this attitude I am more likely to recover from a really poor strike during a round.  OB?  So what?  The only important shot in golf is the next one!  

 

LOL this sort of thinking might resonate with you or it might not, you do have to find your own way. 

 

 

[Exactice808]

9 hours ago, Nels55 said:

@Exactice808, I feel your pain!  LOL been there done that.  Still go there on occasion.  I had a year and a half of intense lessons and training with little to no effect on my swing mechanics.  Some swing changes are really difficult and require serious focus and repetition.  I have sometimes been able to make good changes and sometimes not.  Still working on it. LOL

 

As far as the mental side goes I have tried a lot of stuff some of which seems to work pretty well.  I know the feeling of losing it and not being able to stop the landslide of bad shots.  I guess that you could say that I have always been rather streaky.  One thing that does seem to work for me is to not demand perfection while standing over a shot.  I tell myself that I am going to some bad shots and some good ones today and then I think 'what the heck this might be a good one'.  Thinking of good shots that I have hit in in similar situations in the past before hitting the current shot is also useful.  I play my best when I have a mindset of being a sort of casual observer of my body making the swing.  When I have this attitude I am more likely to recover from a really poor strike during a round.  OB?  So what?  The only important shot in golf is the next one!  

 

LOL this sort of thinking might resonate with you or it might not, you do have to find your own way. 

 

 

Thanks for the response.  I agree, its funny I hear this, and If I was watching myself from the outside, I know that I get overly hard on myself.  More so when a bad shot pops up, I really get down on myself.

 

The weird part is I start off the 1st 9 well,  and some how the start of the second 9 is when things go off the rails, its like the 10th hole wants to humble me.  I then push harder but I push harder into danger or a choke fest.

 

The more and more I think about it, I am taking the game way too seriously and not "Having Fun" as I mentioned before.   Even now on the golf forums as I read through this thread, I get worked up.....well for what?  Mostly is the demand to improve, I am putting so much pressure and thus taking the fun out of it.


Anyways, today I go out to play,  I am going to try my best to have fun,  forget about the score, and just whack a ball down the fairway.  Wish me LUCK! 

 

SIDE NOTE,  I am open to suggestion though,  I am actually likely going to reach out to an instructor that was referred to me. 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Exactice808

[Exactice808]

@Valtiel HEY!  So I did some self reflection the last 2 days.

I want to state, something that is obvious, but maybe not well accepted.  People learn differently and when a point is shared it may not be understood properly.  So it may take about 3 or 4 tries or someone explaining the same exact thing 3 different ways before someone understands it.

Golf is no different, when I hear the words turn vs pivot, lag vs set,  smash vs hit, speed vs power. 

moving on,  your explanation of 2 items stuck and seemingly finally made sense to me. (I am not going to fall in the honeymoon trap yet)

 

1) Arms disconnected.   I have heard this, watched this, people told me this, But the reason and understanding never made sense to me.  (Actually sinking in) I hear it I understand what the words or, but seemed to not translate golf wise.

1a) The arms disconnect for a reason,  I did NOT understand why, All I did know is that I needed to reconnect the arms. Many people told me this,  I have watched videos, about it. So I tried to do it (bring on the typical, drop the arms, bring the right elbow in, etc etc).  You brought a point that it should not be disconnecting in the way it was from the beginning.  And then seemingly explained WHY it was doing so, in a manner that was not good.

 

2) Club head outside of the hands.  I hear this ALL the time,  On TV, on videos.  Rickie fowler does this (exaggerated) But honestly I never understood why, OR never understood many good golfers do it, We just dont see it or understand it.

 

2a) The confusion then starts with,  Path from inside to out. to hit a draw or counter the slice.  so while the club had now sucked inside to get the inside to out path MORE crap starts to happen.  The club head can still be outside of the hands on the take away and still come from the inside on the down swing. I could not process this.

This 2 points now make sense in the order of "Setting" the table.   Another member explained in some DMs basically all you have mentioned and this was like 1-2 years ago, BUT to be honest, I just did NOT get it.  The members advice was the same, Correct. BUT I was not processing it.  

my point,  the other member told me about trying to get my swing vertical,  Back then,  so I tried (2 years ago)....... 

I drilled getting it vertical (practice) this was a 2 years ago,  But as you we can see, it didnt stick because I didnt understand why I just did it.

Anyways THANK YOU,  I wont make promises, but I think I further understand what I need to work on for now.  I am sure more things will pop up, but having an understanding break through is always a start.

I willl be calling that instructor though as I have the means now to do so.

 

 

[uitar9]

2 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Thanks for the response.  I agree, its funny I hear this, and If I was watching myself from the outside, I know that I get overly hard on myself.  More so when a bad shot pops up, I really get down on myself.

 

The weird part is I start off the 1st 9 well,  and some how the start of the second 9 is when things go off the rails, its like the 10th hole wants to humble me.  I then push harder but I push harder into danger or a choke fest.

 

The more and more I think about it, I am taking the game way too seriously and not "Having Fun" as I mentioned before.   Even now on the golf forums as I read through this thread, I get worked up.....well for what?  Mostly is the demand to improve, I am putting so much pressure and thus taking the fun out of it.


Anyways, today I go out to play,  I am going to try my best to have fun,  forget about the score, and just whack a ball down the fairway.  Wish me LUCK! 

 

SIDE NOTE,  I am open to suggestion though,  I am actually likely going to reach out to an instructor that was referred to me. 

 

 

Its a funny sport/activity. Look at baseball. A guy who hits the ball 350 times out of 1000, wins a batting title. I play baseball, I don't expect to hit that ball even 200 times out of a 1000. Yet , us golfers expect to hit the ball 100% of the time. 

 

I constantly have to remind myself about expectations. Otherwise, I'll drive myself nuts.

[milesgiles]

from what ive seen of your swing, you shouldnt be struggling as much as you are. Seen far worse swings with far lower handicaps 

[wagolfer7]

@Exactice808 - not all swing faults are equal.  Some can be compensated for on a fairly consistent basis.  

 

When you wonder some golfers with swing faults are more consistent than yourself, you have to consider what your swing faults are requiring you to do, to compensate.  

Here you are at address.  Look at positioning of your head.  

 

Here you are at the top.  Notice the positioning of the head.  You have moved a substantial amount closer to the ground and the ball.  In order for you to make contact with the ball, you'll need to move away from the ground and the ball, in a very short amount of time.  How consistent can you get at doing that?  Even with 1000's of balls?  

 

So the question is why are you ending up in that position on the top.  

@Valtiel hit it pretty straight on in my opinion.  Your shoulder turn is very flat and driven by the arms.  

 

You ask about disconnection with the arms.  You are moving your hands / arms to move the club.  You need to learn to rotate your shoulders to move the club.  This keeps the upper body connected.  And takes a lot of timing out of the swing.  You can really notice you are an arms player from your follow through.  Your right elbow bends in the follow through.  Showing you are throwing your arms through the impact zone, as that's how you moved them in the takeaway.  You need shoulder rotation.  

 

The flat turn is causing multiple issues as you progress through your backswing.  Most notably your hips are over-rotated and your knees end up in poor positions.  Those things should improve with a better and steeper shoulder turn.  

 

The shoulder turn is not just a backswing thing.  You still need to rotate the shoulders properly on the way down.  Attached drill has been around a long time.  Just remember - when you put the club in your hands - make the shoulders move it - not the hands / arms.  

 

 

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

@Valtiel HEY!  So I did some self reflection the last 2 days.

I want to state, something that is obvious, but maybe not well accepted.  People learn differently and when a point is shared it may not be understood properly.  So it may take about 3 or 4 tries or someone explaining the same exact thing 3 different ways before someone understands it.

Golf is no different, when I hear the words turn vs pivot, lag vs set,  smash vs hit, speed vs power. 

moving on,  your explanation of 2 items stuck and seemingly finally made sense to me. (I am not going to fall in the honeymoon trap yet)

 

1) Arms disconnected.   I have heard this, watched this, people told me this, But the reason and understanding never made sense to me.  (Actually sinking in) I hear it I understand what the words or, but seemed to not translate golf wise.

1a) The arms disconnect for a reason,  I did NOT understand why, All I did know is that I needed to reconnect the arms. Many people told me this,  I have watched videos, about it. So I tried to do it (bring on the typical, drop the arms, bring the right elbow in, etc etc).  You brought a point that it should not be disconnecting in the way it was from the beginning.  And then seemingly explained WHY it was doing so, in a manner that was not good.

 

2) Club head outside of the hands.  I hear this ALL the time,  On TV, on videos.  Rickie fowler does this (exaggerated) But honestly I never understood why, OR never understood many good golfers do it, We just dont see it or understand it.

 

2a) The confusion then starts with,  Path from inside to out. to hit a draw or counter the slice.  so while the club had now sucked inside to get the inside to out path MORE crap starts to happen.  The club head can still be outside of the hands on the take away and still come from the inside on the down swing. I could not process this.

This 2 points now make sense in the order of "Setting" the table.   Another member explained in some DMs basically all you have mentioned and this was like 1-2 years ago, BUT to be honest, I just did NOT get it.  The members advice was the same, Correct. BUT I was not processing it.  

my point,  the other member told me about trying to get my swing vertical,  Back then,  so I tried (2 years ago)....... 

I drilled getting it vertical (practice) this was a 2 years ago,  But as you we can see, it didnt stick because I didnt understand why I just did it.

Anyways THANK YOU,  I wont make promises, but I think I further understand what I need to work on for now.  I am sure more things will pop up, but having an understanding break through is always a start.

I willl be calling that instructor though as I have the means now to do so.

 

 

Thanks for the follow up! That is pretty funny that you had already done this exact thing a couple years ago, and perfectly as well. If you had sent this video as a response to my challenge to get as vertical as JT I would have said "yup, nailed it!".  And as for the "why" that you didn't understand previously, let's first look at your older swings:



Looking specifically at your right shoulder and right bicep/upper arm, we see in all of these swings a version of these pieces getting too far around behind you. In all of these swings, including your current one from the other day, your overall shoulder turn more or less stops and the club continues getting around behind via a combination right shoulder and arm separation. Your main engine of upper body rotation is stopping and you're introducing a new "hinge" with right shoulder and arms by disconnecting them to "finish" your backswing. And as for the "why" in terms of linking that up to the "you shouldn't", time and space are at such an overwhelming premium in the downswing that we can't afford to introduce anything into the equation that takes time to unwind or compensate for, and that is exactly what this extra hinge/disconnection is. 

NOW, let's look at that drill swing at the top:



Look at your right shoulder and upper arm and how they are SO much more in front of your chest when compared to the other swings. This is what connected looks like compared to your older swings. Like @wagolfer7 said above, when you get too flat and too arm driven in your takeaway/backswing it becomes way too easy to then let those arms overrun and get disconnected since they are running the show, so to speak. This is one of the big reasons I wanted you to try this drill (that you already did, hah) because in addition to it being a new feel to break you out the pattern you were stuck in before, it is also REALLY hard for your arms to overrun in your backswing when you get them up like this. Its an overall path that forces shoulder rotation (which is good) and restricts your arms from overrunning and getting disconnected (also good). Then we have this:



This is REALLY good. Like, "do this from now on always" good. The hip turn is a little much (DJ territory here), but that happens when you're just making practice swings sometimes and likely decreases on the course. I'm not sure if you were consciously thinking about it or not, but your hands are doing exactly what you want them to do in transition here. You're still "connected" at the top of your backswing, and your hands just *fall* as your lower body starts unwinding. This is exactly what "shallowing" or "dropping into the slot" looks like and is what happens when you've set the table correctly. If you were actually thinking about shallowing in transition here then you did it correctly, but if you weren't, then it just happened because you were in a good position. Your club is already really close to being on plane by the last frame of this gif, and that is the position you need to be in to "simply rotate through the ball" as you've likely heard many times but couldn't feel. 

An important note about all this above to connect to the present problems, you can NOT do this from the positions you are in currently from your recent video. When you're too flat and disconnected at the top due to an overrunning arm swing, you are forced to dig yourself out of that hole right away in the downswing, and how accurately and quickly you can do that is the day to day struggle. This is the reason the pros are pros; they don't dig that hole. Even if they do something wrong, it is usually a very small hole that they can quickly get out of. I hesitate to say "just do this swing from now on" but it is really tempting as this higher handed practice swing has basically everything "fixed" compared to your current swing. I would definitely explore this (slowly at first) with your practice setup. It will likely feel weird/unnatural in the beginning but that is GOOD. Nothing about the golf swing is supposed to really be comfortable until we get it into the right place and drill it in so it *becomes* comfortable through training. This is an important bit too, because through all the frustration you've likely felt in this, you CAN do it correctly, because you already did before, lol. You just didn't know why at the time and likely didn't take the time to drill it into being comfortable. Please keep us posted and feel free to add videos!

Edited October 22, 2021 by Valtiel

[Exactice808]

5 hours ago, milesgiles said:

from what ive seen of your swing, you shouldnt be struggling as much as you are. Seen far worse swings with far lower handicaps 

This is what I was originally trying to discuss when the thread was in the other section.  I think I am fighting some demons ALONG with swing faults, but the demons seem to really be getting in the way.   I learned something new in another thread about "yips"  I didnt realize there were full swing yips.  
 

 

"The yips are a mental condition that physically manifests itself by causing the body to essentially self-sabotage what a golfer is trying to do. They are most often associated with touch shots. Putting, especially short putts or chip shots around the greens. That's not how mine manifested themselves.

For me, it was the most powerful swing, and the thing I was best at, driving, that got stripped from me. I experienced extreme tension in my downswing that made it physically impossible for me to square the club properly. I had two shots at my disposal: a 90 yard block to the right and a 60 yard snap hook to the left. There was no middle ground."

 

 

needless to say it feel like this..... the blow ups are crazy.

[Exactice808]

@wagolfer7 @Valtiel

OK So, we can agree and I have known this, issue.   I understand it, BUT here is the thing, To fix it, I seem to get too darn mechanical.  trying to get into X position trying to force things.

 

So today I did 3 specific items.

 

First and foremost, I intentionally with ALL shots,  kept the club head well outside of my hands, making a much more "vertical" take away.  

 

Secondly,  I DID NOT do Anything else for the downswing at all,  NO manipulation nothing, Just "rotated" from the top to the ball and let the club release at the ball naturally.

This was the weirdest part, I was holding my breath, I had no idea where the ball would go. ZERO thought.  Oddly the ball went straight. Mind you again, I did NOTHING to manipulate the face, no intentional bowing, no lag, no forward shaft lean, motorcycle move, nothing.  I just had my take away vertical, with the club head well outside It fell like I was almost going to hit a massive cut/slice, then just rotated to the ball and let the club head do the work. it was liberating. FREAKING LIBERATING.

 

Last but not least, Today I let everything go mentally, I had ZERO expectations.  I tried my best to stay as relaxed as possible, I did not harp on a bad shot I just played for fun.

This was the result, I still had 1 blow up 8 and 2 doubles, one which I hit an errant OB drive.  Bunch of pars.  I missed a 2ft birdie on 4, I choked, but again I did NOT beat myself up for it. I just let it go.

. 

 

It was a relatively easy 83, With that, I had a massive clutch up on 18 with the birdie.  That was a huge confidence booster. And big on the bets today LOL!

 

OK now some additional items.

 

1) I would NOT call this a honeymoon stage or an ahha moment, because I knew and have known about this swing flaw for a while.  BUT I could never "trust" the fix or understand why I was doing it.  I would do it with the intention to manipulate the rest of the downswing as well. (Tuck the elbow, create lag, motorcycle move, etc)

 

2) I think I was fighting my body by trying to control the whole swing from the get go, from take away to impact.  Not allowing the body to do what its supposed to do.  If I initiated "Setting the table" The body knows how to do the rest right? Or so it seems.

 

3) Here is a weird one, I Swear I was swinging, 40-50% today, Like I said I was not trying to "hit" the ball just rotate at it and let the club do the work.  I had these blast... mind you I only swing 100mph driver speeds (Mevo+ verified LOL)  

  

The contact though was damn near the center,  but honestly it felt effort less in contact and in swing. The damn thing went straight.  I will say most of the shots went straight today except 3 holes and these 3 holes are the same holes that I basically choke on. (Like I mentioned in the above post about "Full swing yips" its like my body wants to mess it up....ugghh). Here is the thing, I feel like I am swinging 40-50% I feel like there is MORE gas in the tank, But I know that its dangerous. But just saying it out loud.


Anyways..... I will get some videos to "see" if I was really "taking it away vertically" If I was really getting the club head outside of the hands, But I thought I was, I felt I was.

 

I hope this builds some confidence that was lacking for a while. 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Exactice808

[Nard_S]

More torso & shoulders, less arms. More arm lift, less arm "depth". Angles more crunched & less standing up. Shoulders are awol and off plane. I know all this all too well. Basic body angles and their optimization simplifies many intents. Awaking true upper body participation, holding angles takes time & reps but doable. Have gone down lots of rabbit holes, this one theme has worked because when you watch elite, that's how they swing. Yeah, get a Pro but get a clear simple idea why things can derail so easily. I lost many decent rounds because I go awol on this basic concept. Good luck. I'm hitting the links and putting my mouth to the dirt on this, lol.