Rating the Courses at St Andrews

[Chanceman]

Lots of vigorous discussion about the relative merits of the courses in and around St Andrews. How do you rate them as to your desire to play again? I have only played the Old Course so personally interested in the ratings for when I make my next trip. Candidates are Old, New, Jubilee, Castle, Eden, Strathtyrum, Balgove (9 holes). If you have only played say 2 or 3 just rate them. Eg 1.Old 2. New etc etc. thanks.

[Bargegolf]

Old, Jubilee, New … and would play each time I visited

 

i played Castle once and wouldn’t go back there…

[golfpramparo]

1. Old

2. New

 

And I haven't played the rest, but I'd like to play Castle and Jubilee plus Old again if I ever go back....

[milesgiles]

not played Old..

 

1. castle

2. jubilee

3 new/eden

 

as Ive said many times, the Castle greens were modified a few years ago. Still very tough..

[hammergolf]

8 hours ago, Chanceman said:

Lots of vigorous discussion about the relative merits of the courses in and around St Andrews. How do you rate them as to your desire to play again? I have only played the Old Course so personally interested in the ratings for when I make my next trip. Candidates are Old, New, Jubilee, Castle, Eden, Strathtyrum, Balgove (9 holes). If you have only played say 2 or 3 just rate them. Eg 1.Old 2. New etc etc. thanks.

Well here we go. This is sure to not be a popular view but…..

 

1 TOC

2 Jubilee

3a New

3b Castle

4 Eden

 

    As far as layout goes, I much prefer Jubilee and Castle over the others. However obviously the history of TOC carries a lot of weight and the more times you play it in different conditions it continues to grow on you. However without winds it’s defenseless. I really enjoy the Jubilee due to its dunes and “more defined” hole layouts. I know many here despise Castle, but I love the challenge and uniqueness compare to all of the others. My #1 bucket list wish is to be able to play TOC in the original clockwise routing. (Essentially backwards to the modern routing) 

[El Gringo]

In order of preference for ones I would happily play again:

 

New

Old

Eden

 

If there was a deal I would consider the Castle during dry weather. Not much interested in the Joob. 

 

[texas_tom]

New course was fantastic

Crail Golf Links was my favorite. Look it up

Kingsbarns was extraordinary.. but holy cow expensive. 

 

[Petethreeput]

Old: the history is fantastic and it is a fun course.

New: 1895, New?  You be the judge...

Jubilee:  we played it in the rain and wind without a caddie and it was difficult to know what end was up.  I would like to play it with a caddie who could help with directions and desired distances.

Eden:  when we arrived the tour director wanted to see if he should stick his neck out for us and have us walk on the Old as his guest.  Not a fan, but it was our first course.

 

I did enjoy Crail Balcomie and would recommend it.  Less history, but a lot of history and very straightforward.  It was a fun day.  A quick run to Carnoustie was a lot of fun too, but really difficult.  Didn't want to pay the freight for Kingsbarns when we were there.

 

One other thing, I had never heard such a thing as ball flight affecting scoring.  I played the New before I played the Old and at the time I played a draw (really a hook but I could play it) and shot a 90 with a ton of shots in the crap.  He said you'll love the Old because it favors a draw, the New favors a cut.  Shot a 75.  It was the most glaring example I have ever seen of ball flight and scoring, which will probably affect how people rate the courses.

[milesgiles]

13 hours ago, texas_tom said:

New course was fantastic

Crail Golf Links was my favorite. Look it up

Kingsbarns was extraordinary.. but holy cow expensive. 

 

 

Crail isnt St Andrews..

[hammergolf]

8 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

Crail isnt St Andrews..

I have to agree, my group played Crail Balcomie as our first round off the plane on our 2018 trip. Not one of our group liked the course. It’s overpriced for what it is. Yes there is some old history there, but when we go back we will prob just play The Eden or Jubilee as our first round.

[texas_tom]

8 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

Crail isnt St Andrews..

ok.. well trying to add some flavor. I only played Old and New of the official St. Andrews courses. So that would be my order. 

[Chanceman]

Of course we have left out the Duke's Course which is owned by the Old Course Hotel and not part of the St Andrews Trust arrangement. Anyone played it and care to rate it relative to the others? Designed by Peter Thomson it is really a parkland course and not links which seems odd.

[milesgiles]

4 hours ago, texas_tom said:

ok.. well trying to add some flavor. I only played Old and New of the official St. Andrews courses. So that would be my order. 

 

if you include Crail you pretty much have to include the whole of east fife, which is 15 plus courses.. 

[milesgiles]

5 hours ago, hammergolf said:

I have to agree, my group played Crail Balcomie as our first round off the plane on our 2018 trip. Not one of our group liked the course. It’s overpriced for what it is. Yes there is some old history there, but when we go back we will prob just play The Eden or Jubilee as our first round.

 

not quite how I meant it since I havent played it, but fair enough 

[865golf]

I've had a chance to play them all now multiple times and I'd rank then as follows:

 

1. TOC - Great course to play, but you can't grasp how good it is until about your 6th time around.  The first time you play you tend to overwhelmed by the experience. The 2nd and 3rd times you play you understand how rushed you can feel on the course.  After that you start to see the subtle trappings of the course - the hidden bunkers, the odd slopes that throw your away from the hole, the weird places its better to hit to than the middle of the fairway. When it all slows down in your head, you can truly appreciate the course.

 

2. The New - fun course to play.  Asks a lot of your game without asking too much. It's not the Old Course, but it is a must play while you are there.

 

3.  The Eden - I have a soft spot in my heart for the Eden. It's the kind of course you'd happily play every day, but it's next to the Old Course and you can't keep your mind on your game.  Yes, there are a few holes that look like they don't belong, but it's an enjoyable course that you'll regret not playing.

 

4. Castle - Didn't come around to the Castle Course until I'd played it a couple of times. It's FUN golf. If you can't have fun on the Castle Course then you probably don't enjoy playing golf. Wildly undulating greens and fairways that throw your ball everywhere, but flat lies and straight putts are undemocratic and boring as hell.

 

5. The Jubilee - The Joob can be a bear in the wind.  Favors straight hitters as it is extremely tight in places.  If you can smoke a 3 iron, you'll love this course.  I have to use driver for length off the tee, so I struggle there.

 

6. Strath - I like the Strath.  I know that's an unpopular opinion in some groups, but I've always held that if you took it away from St. Andrews and put it hard beside the water, people would think it's a great links course.

 

7. Balgove - it's a nice course to get out an knock it around. It's clearly a course to play when you are learning the game. You'll be surrounded by kids with their parents learning the game. Fun to watch the kids having a good time.

 

Bonus: Himalayas/Ladies Putting Course - if you can't have a pint and then knock it around the Himalayas, then why the heck did you come to St. Andrews? Spend the 3 quid and have a blast!

 

My opinion only - but if you are there, why not try to play them all and come up with your own ranking.

[Chanceman]

33 minutes ago, 865golf said:

I've had a chance to play them all now multiple times and I'd rank then as follows:

 

1. TOC - Great course to play, but you can't grasp how good it is until about your 6th time around.  The first time you play you tend to overwhelmed by the experience. The 2nd and 3rd times you play you understand how rushed you can feel on the course.  After that you start to see the subtle trappings of the course - the hidden bunkers, the odd slopes that throw your away from the hole, the weird places its better to hit to than the middle of the fairway. When it all slows down in your head, you can truly appreciate the course.

 

2. The New - fun course to play.  Asks a lot of your game without asking too much. It's not the Old Course, but it is a must play while you are there.

 

3.  The Eden - I have a soft spot in my heart for the Eden. It's the kind of course you'd happily play every day, but it's next to the Old Course and you can't keep your mind on your game.  Yes, there are a few holes that look like they don't belong, but it's an enjoyable course that you'll regret not playing.

 

4. Castle - Didn't come around to the Castle Course until I'd played it a couple of times. It's FUN golf. If you can't have fun on the Castle Course then you probably don't enjoy playing golf. Wildly undulating greens and fairways that throw your ball everywhere, but flat lies and straight putts are undemocratic and boring as hell.

 

5. The Jubilee - The Joob can be a bear in the wind.  Favors straight hitters as it is extremely tight in places.  If you can smoke a 3 iron, you'll love this course.  I have to use driver for length off the tee, so I struggle there.

 

6. Strath - I like the Strath.  I know that's an unpopular opinion in some groups, but I've always held that if you took it away from St. Andrews and put it hard beside the water, people would think it's a great links course.

 

7. Balgove - it's a nice course to get out an knock it around. It's clearly a course to play when you are learning the game. You'll be surrounded by kids with their parents learning the game. Fun to watch the kids having a good time.

 

Bonus: Himalayas/Ladies Putting Course - if you can't have a pint and then knock it around the Himalayas, then why the heck did you come to St. Andrews? Spend the 3 quid and have a blast!

 

My opinion only - but if you are there, why not try to play them all and come up with your own ranking.

Thanks , that is a nice summary. I liked the Eden from the time I went to the Open and saw it across the fence along the back nine. It might be the first one to play next visit.

[El Gringo]

35 minutes ago, Chanceman said:

Thanks , that is a nice summary. I liked the Eden from the time I went to the Open and saw it across the fence along the back nine. It might be the first one to play next visit.

The Eden has some terrific greens. Really works well as a first or last game of a trip because the course plays fast. 

[philsRHman]

On 10/21/2021 at 5:59 PM, 865golf said:

1. TOC - Great course to play, but you can't grasp how good it is until about your 6th time around.  The first time you play you tend to overwhelmed by the experience. The 2nd and 3rd times you play you understand how rushed you can feel on the course.  After that you start to see the subtle trappings of the course - the hidden bunkers, the odd slopes that throw your away from the hole, the weird places its better to hit to than the middle of the fairway. When it all slows down in your head, you can truly appreciate the course.

This is pretty much exactly how I’ve been describing the Old. I played it 3x on my trip. First day I was completely overwhelmed with the experience, totally disoriented by the blind shots. Second round was the round a lifetime, 4 birdies, shot 74 but really wasn’t thinking, just hitting and hoping. By the third round, I started to understand just how important the angles are. I marked the pins on my yardage book, started to think starting on the tee of where I wanted to be, but more importantly where I did NOT want to be. I found it to be the most thought-provoking golf course I’ve even played. Not the most demanding obviously but if you really want to sink your teeth into the design and nuance you could go around 200x and never really get bored given the wind and conditions changing. 
 

I heard a few things time and time again while in St Andrews, from locals, tourists, caddies at other courses:

 

1. “The Old is overrated, other than 1, 17 and 18 it’s not all that special.” I could not possibly disagree more but I can understand why someone who isn’t deeply engaged with the design and strategy. I don’t know much about the fine arts but I think it’s likely similar thst someone with an appreciation for the artist and the back story and strives to understand the nuances will get more out of a visit to a museum or an orchestra, etc. 

 

2. “Did you play Castle? Whoa, zoom, zoom, zoom (gesture with hands going all over the place) on the greens.” Can’t argue that the greens are outrageous. But it’s up to you to decide if that’s fun and exciting or  a turn off. 
 

3. “Ask any local, the Jubilee is the toughest of the SA Links courses.” I must have heard this a dozen times. Personally one of my best rounds was on the Joob, but only after I submitted and basically left the driver in the bag. I never got it in extreme winds but can see why it would go so much tighter. 
 

So how would I rank them? Similar to others:

1- Old (I’d play it everyday until I could really picture and understand every hole)

2- Jubilee (loved the variety, the hole playing through a corridor or greens built into dunes)

3- Eden (fun greens, unique memorable holes, even though I only played once I would love to see it several more before really judging. The holes around the pond are tough to wrap your head around but I understand they are new and had some issues with the drainage)

4- Castle (thoroughly modern and fun)

??- New (I’d want another shot before having a fair rating. I played terribly, alone, and in a pretty grumpy mood. But what I saw was a somewhat monotonous course with out much intrigue. But I trust all those who would say I totally missed something, so I’ll withhold a rating and beg for a do over). 
 

let me chip in a huge thumbs up for the practice facility. I’ve never seen a short game area so well designed and conditioned. 

[postfold]

Wish I'd had time to play the entire lot.  Pretty easy 1. Old, 2. Jubilee.  Balgove was a fun warmup, good way to get accustomed to links golf without much stress.

[Hawkeye77]

The Old Course

Crail Balcomie

The New Course

 

My oldest daughter and I loved Crail - Old Tom connection, nice layout, interesting last few holes (!), nice holes along the sea, history, history. Fun course.

 

Only reason I would move The New Course ahead would be if you could only play one course, at least (like we did) you could keep looking at The Old Course while you played it (we played TOC the next day), but you can walk anywhere you want on The Old Course most Sundays if you just want to see it.

 

I see Crail wasn't a candidate, so maybe you've played it and didn't find it magical or looking for something different since you've already played it, but those are the only three I've played.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[hammergolf]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

The Old Course

Crail Balcomie

The New Course

 

My oldest daughter and I loved Crail - Old Tom connection, nice layout, interesting last few holes (!), nice holes along the sea, history, history. Fun course.

 

Only reason I would move The New Course ahead would be if you could only play one course, at least (like we did) you could keep looking at The Old Course while you played it (we played TOC the next day), but you can walk anywhere you want on The Old Course most Sundays if you just want to see it.

 

I see Crail wasn't a candidate, so maybe you've played it and didn't find it magical or looking for something different since you've already played it, but those are the only three I've played.

I get the history of Balcomie, but none of the guys on our trip really liked it. Take away the history and in many opinions it’s really not in the class of any of the St. Andrews courses.

[Chanceman]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

The Old Course

Crail Balcomie

The New Course

 

My oldest daughter and I loved Crail - Old Tom connection, nice layout, interesting last few holes (!), nice holes along the sea, history, history. Fun course.

 

Only reason I would move The New Course ahead would be if you could only play one course, at least (like we did) you could keep looking at The Old Course while you played it (we played TOC the next day), but you can walk anywhere you want on The Old Course most Sundays if you just want to see it.

 

I see Crail wasn't a candidate, so maybe you've played it and didn't find it magical or looking for something different since you've already played it, but those are the only three I've played.

I guess the next step is to broaden the topic to take in the non-St Andrews Links courses. So you would have in no particular order

Kingsbarns

Torrance

Kittocks

Dukes

Crail

Lundin

Leven

Elie

Scotscraig

Perhaps we could rate them in the same way as the earlier group. I suppose most people would say Kingsbarns is the best design but not necessarily the best value. 

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, hammergolf said:

I get the history of Balcomie, but none of the guys on our trip really liked it. Take away the history and in many opinions it’s really not in the class of any of the St. Andrews courses.

LOL, yes I think you mentioned that already above. 😉 

 

So I'll just say (again) we really liked it!

 

To each his or her own as far as golf courses go, and "class" is always a relative term, all depends on what combination of things a person finds interesting or inspiring. 

 

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Chanceman said:

I guess the next step is to broaden the topic to take in the non-St Andrews Links courses. So you would have in no particular order

Kingsbarns

Torrance

Kittocks

Dukes

Crail

Lundin

Leven

Elie

Scotscraig

Perhaps we could rate them in the same way as the earlier group. I suppose most people would say Kingsbarns is the best design but not necessarily the best value. 

I just went for the "in and around" so already covered the only 3 we were able to play.  I'd add Anstruther to that list!