Possible LPGA Course Idea ala TPC Sawgrass

[Golf Dino]

34 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

I don't buy into the rationale that shorter courses=less time. Most guys would consider where I play short (par 71, 6300yds) flat, compact, easy to walk with no water on the course. Fairways are fairly generous but greens are small. I would say 2% play it in 3-3.5 hrs with most rounds being 4.5 and considered to be the norm. In my experience slow play is caused 99.99% by players independent of course length.

 

 

You answered your own "question" . . .  a course with longest tees at 6300 yds., imagine the shorter tees.   with multiple tee boxes, the shortest could be as short as 4,000 yards.    And if the course is set up appropriately/thoughtfully, then 3 hour rounds are more the norm.    That's what we find here for the shorter courses . . . unless it is jammed up for a corporate or social event.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Golf Dino
corrected typo 4,000 vs 4,800

[Bad9]

1 minute ago, Golf Dino said:

 

 

You answered your own "question" . . .  a course with longest tees at 6300 yds., imagine the shorter tees.   with multiple tee boxes, the shortest could be as short as 4,800 yards.    And if the course is set up appropriately/thoughtfully, then 3 hour rounds are more the norm.    That's what we find here for the shorter courses . . . unless it is jammed up for a corporate or social event.

We played an annual match last weekend from the ladies tees. 2 man best ball with 2 teams, decent golfers and still took 4hrs. My partner and I can play easily in 3:15(in no way rushing) if we don't get held up and we are by far the exception.

[Golf Dino]

32 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

We played an annual match last weekend from the ladies tees. 2 man best ball with 2 teams, decent golfers and still took 4hrs. My partner and I can play easily in 3:15(in no way rushing) if we don't get held up and we are by far the exception.

 

Precisely . . . playing a "match", competitive I'm sure . . . even though it may only be match between yourselves. 

 

Secondly, you are playing on a course over 6,000 yards and I am presuming that you played it 6000 yards??

 

The shorter courses that I have reference ALL PLAY within 3 hours or better.  Not uncommon for 2.5 hour rounds . . . but AGAIN, they are all shorter than 6,000 yards, with tees at 5700, 5400, 4780 yards etc.

 

So, my point being is that this "Women's" course will be played at 6200 yards (longest), but if designed with multiple tees, they can be as short as 4,000+ yards . . . like many of the shorter ones that I have referenced.  And yes, playing time is 3 hours or less . . . *UNLESS it is accomodating a tournament, social event, or the proshop has overfilled the course full of players.*

Edited October 22, 2021 by Golf Dino

[Argonne69]

53 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

We played an annual match last weekend from the ladies tees. 2 man best ball with 2 teams, decent golfers and still took 4hrs. My partner and I can play easily in 3:15(in no way rushing) if we don't get held up and we are by far the exception.

 

Oy veh. "Ladies Tees"? I didn't realize this was 1987.

 

[KBong]

21 hours ago, Golf Dino said:

 

 

The answer to your questions: 

 

1.   Substitute "Seniors" or "newer players" for "women";
2.   Market research indicated that the biggest market for growth of golf is in shorter courses . . . courses that allow the players that hit a 7-iron 150 yards or less, to enjoy golf through more scoring opportunities.  The recreational golfer loves to make birdies and many often celebrate with "birdie juice" particularly when playing with a regular set of playing partners.*  
    

If you think about it, shorter courses like Country Meadows and Mylora or the Savage Creek course (these are courses in the greater Vancouver area), often have some of the busiest traffic because they are short courses, take 3 hours to play, leaving many players time to enjoy a libation or two post round, where they can talk about the "what ifs", "should have's", "could have's" etc. . . 

 

That is where the business aspect comes into it . . . imagine a course that takes only 3 hours to play 18 holes . . . you will definitely get much more afterwork and twilight crowds, plus with appropriate tee box placements, can get more of the corporate social events as well . . . the customer appreciation events to thank customers (many of whom don't play golf or do not play regularly).  

 

Their intended market is not the player that hits a 7-iron 170 yards or a driver over 250 yards carry (although the LPGA women most certainly can).

 

 

* Don't ask for that market research, I have lost track of it over the past few years . . . and I cannot be bothered to go searching for it! 😛 

The 3 courses you mentioned along with all the other executive length courses are no busier than the championship length courses in the GVRD.

 

Is there a market for the executive length courses...absolutely....especially now with the pandemic because many golfers...especially beginners or casual golfers don't want to spend $80+ on championship length courses.

 

Yes, back in my working days...the executive length courses were great for "team building" events as many staff members were casual golfers at best...the less money spent on green fees the more money available for wings and beers later.

 

Courses here are just plain SLOW....short or long courses.

Why?

Because many golfers are hacks and/or many players don't give a cr*p on PoP...taking their time and hawking balls.

 

The 2nd 18 where I play has white and blue tees.....5300 & 5600 yards where most golfers play...there are black tees that are rarely played....I've played somedays where it took 5 or 5:15 to play 18 holes.

Why?

A bunch of CLOWNS out playing golf.

 

IMO....most marshals are useless and even the good ones still have a hard time getting PoP at a reasonable pace.

 

Unless one is dew sweeping...I've come to accept a 4:30+ hr pace at public courses here.

Edited October 23, 2021 by KBong

[Lobby]

The Midland CC in Michigan, which hosts the Dow Team event, is such a course.   6400 yards max, pretty, and challenging for the members.    I think it's also perfect for the ladies.

[third-times-a-charm]

I always wondered why there was a course called LPGA International but with no LPGA members there and no LPGA tour stops there.

 

As I mentioned in the other TPC thread from last month in the tour main forum, TPC should have taken $5m from their TPC tournament and made it a purse for a ladies tournament somewhere instead of boosting the mens tournament by $5m+. So ridiculous. 

[Shilgy]

On 11/4/2021 at 7:33 AM, third-times-a-charm said:

I always wondered why there was a course called LPGA International but with no LPGA members there and no LPGA tour stops there.

 

As I mentioned in the other TPC thread from last month in the tour main forum, TPC should have taken $5m from their TPC tournament and made it a purse for a ladies tournament somewhere instead of boosting the mens tournament by $5m+. So ridiculous. 

That would be like CocaCola doing something for PepsiCo.  Two standalone entities.  
   While it would be a kind gesture it is certainly not something the PGA Tour “should do” for the LPGA Tour.

[ThinkingPlus]

Thought I would provide an update to this thread.  Our valley wide women's group is playing Treasure Hills tomorrow.  I will be able to provide a condition update.

 

More importantly I stopped by yesterday and spoke with an owner of the course.  The deal with Treasure Hills, City of Harlingen, and Brandel et. al. golf group either fell through or has been delayed.  That's all she knew.

[Lobby]

They probably read this thread. 🙂

[ThinkingPlus]

Condition report on Treasure Hills.  Course is in much better shape.  Fairways are now mostly grass. Bunkers have somewhat playable sand.  Greens were patchy in a few places, but overall pretty good.  However, they had been verticut the week before so they were furry and corn rowed.  Number 9 was still using a temporary green. All in all the best shape it has been in for at least 5 years.

 

I hit 3 balls OB and had three 3-putts.  Shot a 76 (no laughing!).  Will be interesting to see if Bramble et. al. ever come back and buy TH and/or build another course.  I think not, but you never know.

[Titleist_PT23]

4 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Condition report on Treasure Hills.  Course is in much better shape.  Fairways are now mostly grass. Bunkers have somewhat playable sand.  Greens were patchy in a few places, but overall pretty good.  However, they had been verticut the week before so they were furry and corn rowed.  Number 9 was still using a temporary green. All in all the best shape it has been in for at least 5 years.

 

I hit 3 balls OB and had three 3-putts.  Shot a 76 (no laughing!).  Will be interesting to see if Bramble et. al. ever come back and buy TH and/or build another course.  I think not, but you never know.

That's 9 lost shots.  Remove all the bad stuff and you shoot a 67?

[ThinkingPlus]

5 hours ago, agolf1 said:

That's 9 lost shots.  Remove all the bad stuff and you shoot a 67?

Yes, but made a couple long putts for birdie which were very lucky.  It is a very gettable course for me.  Very short.