Do You Carry A Specialty Pitching Wedge?

[Cactus Jack]

I've started to look into player style combo sets. For example, a blended set of Srixon ZX5 and ZX7s. On paper, not accounting for actual gapping, with minimal loft adjustments I can see a nice 4* loft progression that would result in a 44* PW. I see a similar trend within other manufacturers offerings too. 

 

Above is an example only, and not intended to be a Srixon discussion. However, my question is for folks playing player iron combo sets do you end up playing a specialty pitching wedge. Carrying forward the example , if one wanted to keep an even 4* loft progression through the wedges you'd fill the bottom of the bag with something like a 48/52/56/60 set. Obviously the progression is player dependent, and 4-6* lofts in wedges is fine, but if you want tight gapping are you adding a new PW?

 

I suppose a secondary question is if you do throw in a specialty PW do you install your iron shaft? Do you carry your iron shaft through your wedge set? 

 

Thanks for time to share your thoughts. I realize this is a theoretical question, it's imperfect in many ways, but I'm still curious for your insight. I hope all is well, and thanks for sharing. 

[EDT501]

General wisdom is to use your iron shaft in any club that you plan to make primarily 70%+ swings with, otherwise use your preferred wedge shaft - for some people that is the same as their iron shaft, but many prefer to go heavier and softer (S400 w/ X100 being a classic example). So if you plan to use that 48 and/or 52 as a 10/11/12 iron, then match it up to the iron shafts. 

[GooseHook]

I've played a handful of different sets in recent years and always stuck with my set PW at 45 or 46 degrees.  PW for me is always basically a 10 iron and is either full shot or bump and run 99% of the time. If the gap is too large between the PW and my gap wedge, then I usually try to handle it by adjusting loft by a degree or two for either club. 

 

My 50 is very much a full  swing club but I step down to S400 like my other wedges. I did a short stint with iron shafts in the gap wedge and it just didn't feel quite right. 

[Alan Pllu]

I have 5 wedges in my bag from the start of this year. I changed my irons at the start of 2018 and the new set pw (mp18) went about 10 yards further due to a combination of slightly stronger loft and a shaft change that was giving me a bit more speed than my old wedge. This then left a weird gap between pw and my 52. 

 

I changed wedges from 52,56,60 which I had played for about 15 years to 50,54,58 and just didn't get on with those lofts at all and my distance control suffered on partial shots. 

 

I went back to 52,56,60 at the start of the season and put in a 49 to match the 52 with the same shaft as my irons and it made a massive difference to my wedge game and scoring this season. 

 

After analysing shot scope data from the previous 3 seasons I found I was loosing a lot 9f shots between 115-130 my pw goes 135 and 52 110 so I was either trying to rip a 52 or take a bit off the pw and wasn't getting close to the hole and costing me shots. 

 

I took out my 5i which I hadn't hit for 2 full seasons and put in the 49 and haven't looked back. I'm actually considering taking out the set pw and putting in a 45/46 to match the 49 and 52 I like the 49 so much. 

[mvhoffman]

Just recently went to a set of irons with a PW.  My previous blades were only 3-9 and honestly I missed the PW.  I had a 46* Vokey with my blades in place of the wedge.  I'm glad to have one back in the bag.  

[Cactus Jack]

5 minutes ago, Alan Pllu said:

I have 5 wedges in my bag from the start of this year. I changed my irons at the start of 2018 and the new set pw (mp18) went about 10 yards further due to a combination of slightly stronger loft and a shaft change that was giving me a bit more speed than my old wedge. This then left a weird gap between pw and my 52. 

 

I changed wedges from 52,56,60 which I had played for about 15 years to 50,54,58 and just didn't get on with those lofts at all and my distance control suffered on partial shots. 

 

I went back to 52,56,60 at the start of the season and put in a 49 to match the 52 with the same shaft as my irons and it made a massive difference to my wedge game and scoring this season. 

 

After analysing shot scope data from the previous 3 seasons I found I was loosing a lot 9f shots between 115-130 my pw goes 135 and 52 110 so I was either trying to rip a 52 or take a bit off the pw and wasn't getting close to the hole and costing me shots. 

 

I took out my 5i which I hadn't hit for 2 full seasons and put in the 49 and haven't looked back. I'm actually considering taking out the set pw and putting in a 45/46 to match the 49 and 52 I like the 49 so much. 

 

My Arccos strokes gained data is screaming at me to make the exact same change. I play the 50/54/58 setup, and it's not working. Currently, I'm losing 2.6 and 2.7 strokes across my approach and short game respectively. This is the difference between me being a mid-handicap vs breaking into the single digit handicap level. 

[gsrjc]

No. I use the PW that came with my Srixon ZX7 set and bent it to 45 degrees. 

[justcallmemoses]

I did for a while but it’s pointless to be honest. Very little pros use a speciality PW. No matter how good a ball striker you think you are you’ll benefit from full shot forgiveness. Having an evenly gapped bag too on paper isn’t an exact science either. Better off to get on a launch monitor and adjust lofts to meet yardages you want.

If it’s for partial shots you want the PW learn to flight your sand or gap wedge lower. I’ve a set PW and can play partials no problem using the clock system. Learn the different releases for short game shots and you’ll make any wedge work.

Edited October 20, 2021 by justcallmemoses

[968cab]

I’m planning a switch from P760 to 921HMPro over the winter.  Currently have a set PW & 50/54/58 RTX, with the 54 at 12° bounce for fluff.

 

The HMPro PW is 44°, and there is no set GW (although some advocate the HM Forged GW), so I’ve bought a 48° & a 52° RTX, and plan to carry both and yank the 50°; so 5 wedges.  PW/48/52/54/58.  I use the 54° almost exclusively from sand, and the 48° almost exclusively full swing.  52° becomes my jack-of-all-trades GW.  PW at that loft is basically a traditional 9 iron anyway…so it’s only a label.

 

MMTs going in this week or next, then I’ll gap it all out, but this is the plan.  

Edited October 21, 2021 by 968cab

[ChipNRun]

For about three years, I carried an MD3 48* and 54*, and an MD4 58*.

 

The 48* split the difference between a PW and an AW. But, I'm going back to four wedges.

 

I just got some MavMAX irons, and the PW is 43*. I will keep the legacy 48, 54 and 58 wedges for my new set-up, reshafted with Catalyst 80 CW. The legacy lofts matches of the MAX higher lofted wedges.

 

For PWs, I have done well with the set PW. This is both for full shots, and partial pitches and chips.

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, 968cab said:

I’m planning a switch from P760 to 921HMPro over the winter.  Currently have a set PW & 50/54/58 RTX, with the 54 at 12° bounce for fluff.

 

The HMPro PW is 44°, and there is no set GW (although some advocate the HM Forged GW), so I’ve bought a 48° & a 52° RTX, and plan to carry both and yank the 50°; so 5 wedges.  PW/48/52/54/58.  I use the 54° exclusively from sand, and the 48° almost exclusively full swing.  52° becomes my jack-of-all-trades GW.  PW at that loft is basically a traditional 9 iron anyway…so it’s only a label.

 

MMTs going in this week or next, then I’ll gap it all out, but this is the plan.  

 

Thanks for sharing. This is a perfect example of what I was trying to understand. 

 

Another factor to consider is I assume the set PW will be more efficient (produce more ball speed) than a traditional wedge. Without going the 48* route the actual gapping difference could become much wider. 

 

Of course this is all theoretical until a proper gapping session could be performed, but it's a fun topic to think about. 

 

 

[968cab]

That is actually my biggest worry of this whole off season change…set PW to the RTX 48°.  4° sounds good but until I’m up to speed with the new shafts/heads and the new 48°, it’s an educated guess at best.

 

I can bend to gap, but I’m still trying to decide about a shaft for the 48° too…same issue re set vs. specialty head differences, etc. (Then again, the HM Forged presents the same issue, as it’s not a HMPro piece, just a good loft gap that happens to be Mizuno)

 

To me, this is half the fun…just like a car guy tuning a motor.  
 

👍🏼

Edited October 21, 2021 by 968cab

[Judge Smails]

I have experimented with this extensively and have actually thrown a similar "on brand" muscle back PW into the mix, have tried the Vokey 46, and, of course, the traditional matching PW.

 

For a long time when I was in high school and college I had MP14 short irons I combed with a variety of different long irons.  Then, I moved to the Nike VR Pro Combos.  Next, I I played MC 2011 for 8 or 9 years.  I lost the PW and happened to have the matching MB head and added it for the rest of my time with this set.  I just loved the control I had with the blade PW and the ability to hit low pitches and chips with it.  I also always got along well with the narrow sole MBs tend to have.  I also tried the Vokey PW years ago but it never lasted long.

 

With my current JPX 919s I've never had strong feelings about the PW one way or another.  I snagged an MP18 PW and 9 iron and after they sat in my garage for a year I've finally sent them off to get shafted.  While waiting for the MB heads to get shafted up I could help myself but snag a SM7 46 . . .

 

All I can say is I wish I had given the Vokey another shot sooner.  In the month I have had it in the bag a huge percentage of my birdies have resulted from hitting it close with this wedge.  It's also been a weapon around the greens for any shot that isn't a drop and stop situation. I've also like the continuity between my gamer 50* and my 46* being the same club, grind, shaft etc.  

 

Regarding shafts, I've played s400 as my main iron shaft for a decade or more.  Now that I am using C Tapers I've stuck with the s400 in the PW which seems to work well .  Having played s400s through the set historically, I have no issue hitting full shots with the shaft.  

[Cactus Jack]

Thanks for the great feedback. 

 

Being a bit of a visual learner, and continuing with the Srixon example, I put together a few gapping scenarios. Again, this doesn't replace a gapping session, it's simply a curiosity I want to explore.

 

I'm working with a ZX5 4-6, and ZX7 7-P. Based on the original lofts I'm pretty certain most players would have some gapping challenges. Specifically between the 6 and 7 and maybe between the 8 and 9 too. I think the 6 and 7 would be especially tricky to dial in as I'd anticipate a noticeable jump in ball speed due to the tech differences. 

 

I do like how scenario 3 played out. First, the adjustment to the stock lofts are minimal. Second, you pick up another scoring club within 150. Third, top to bottom the set plays with the most loft. To make room for the extra wedge I dropped the 5 iron, but could've dropped the 4. My thinking is once you approach 200ish yards it most likely wouldn't matter much which one made the bag. 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Cactus Jack

[Alan Pllu]

16 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

My Arccos strokes gained data is screaming at me to make the exact same change. I play the 50/54/58 setup, and it's not working. Currently, I'm losing 2.6 and 2.7 strokes across my approach and short game respectively. This is the difference between me being a mid-handicap vs breaking into the single digit handicap level. 

This change was the difference between my handicap creeping up every time I played hitting a 20 year high of 8 at the start of this season to getting back down to 5.7 by the end of the season. 

 

I haven't made any swing changes or done any more practice or anything like that just add the extra wedge and figuring out my new yardages to suit the wedge setup. 

 

Just to add I did also change ball to a higher spin ball which helped my short game. Changed from tp5x to Bridgestone tour bxs and don't get as many fliers into greens on partial wedges as I was with the tp5x. 

[Alan Pllu]

9 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

Thanks for the great feedback. 

 

Being a bit of a visual learner, and continuing with the Srixon example, I put together a few gapping scenarios. Again, this doesn't replace a gapping session, it's simply a curiosity I want to explore.

 

I'm working with a ZX5 4-6, and ZX7 7-P. Based on the original lofts I'm pretty certain most players would have some gapping challenges. Specifically between the 6 and 7 and maybe between the 8 and 9 too. I think the 6 and 7 would be especially tricky to dial in as I'd anticipate a noticeable jump in ball speed due to the tech differences. 

 

I do like how scenario 3 played out. First, the adjustment to the stock lofts are minimal. Second, you pick up another scoring club within 150. Third, top to bottom the set plays with the most loft. To make room for the extra wedge I dropped the 5 iron, but could've dropped the 4. My thinking is once you approach 200ish yards it most likely wouldn't matter much which one made the bag. 

 

I like the look of scenario 3 personally, from what you have said with your arcos data the extra club inside 150 makes sense. 

 

The only thing you would need to watch is the yardage gap between the 6 and 7 irons because they are from the different sets. Might need to alter them slightly but I think that would be a good starting point. 

 

I would start from there and do a gapping session on a launch monitor and see what the carry distances are and then fine tune here and there to suit the yardage progression. 

 

Start from the wedges and work up adjusting from shortest to longest. Then work out which club you hit best from the 4 and 5 iron and which one is giving the most consistent results and put that in. You might find the shorter 5i with a little more loft actually give better launch conditions and ultimately the same carry numbers and tighter dispersion than the longer lower lofted 4i or vise versa. Testing will confirm. 

[Cactus Jack]

This specialty pitching wedge theory/hypothesis won't get out of my head. As such, in classic WRX fashion, I bought a Srixon combo set to test. I figured it's how I can best contribute to this great community 🙂 . A full scientific gapping session will be performed next week!

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

I did a quick gapping session last night. I didn’t have much time, but i have perfect 12 yard gaps between pitching wedge through seven iron. I tested out a 48* Vokey and it fell perfectly inline. However, The 6 iron was a different story. Due to the 5* loft difference, I hit the 6 iron 26 yards further than the 7.

 

Between bending the 6 week, and dialing in lie angles, all of which were flat, I should be able to build a tight bottom of the bag. Also, I’m going to measure the lofts to confirm the exact progression. 

[cristphoto]

PW matches the other irons, SW and LW are specialty however.  

[Alan Pllu]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

I did a quick gapping session last night. I didn’t have much time, but i have perfect 12 yard gaps between pitching wedge through seven iron. I tested out a 48* Vokey and it fell perfectly inline. However, The 6 iron was a different story. Due to the 5* loft difference, I hit the 6 iron 26 yards further than the 7.

 

Between bending the 6 week, and dialing in lie angles, all of which were flat, I should be able to build a tight bottom of the bag. Also, I’m going to measure the lofts to confirm the exact progression. 

Thats what I thought in my earlier post was the 6 and 7 iron gap could be an issue. Difference in ball speed and spin between them is mega. 

 

Gaps throughout the rest look good though, nice and consistent and the peak heights all look fairly similar. 7i down looks like it doesn't need touched, how does the 48 then gap down to your other wedges? 

 

What's your thoughts with the 6i, can you afford to bend it much weaker without having the bounce being an issue? 

[Cactus Jack]

12 minutes ago, Alan Pllu said:

Thats what I thought in my earlier post was the 6 and 7 iron gap could be an issue. Difference in ball speed and spin between them is mega. 

 

Gaps throughout the rest look good though, nice and consistent and the peak heights all look fairly similar. 7i down looks like it doesn't need touched, how does the 48 then gap down to your other wedges? 

 

What's your thoughts with the 6i, can you afford to bend it much weaker without having the bounce being an issue? 

 

The irons were an impulse buy. Ironically, I've been looking at the specs, and boom, a set pops up in my local driving range used club section. 

 

If I stay with this set, I'll need to pick up an entirely new set of wedges. I'd most likely go the classic 48/52/56/60 to keep the gaps tight.

 

In response, I'd most likely bend the 6i 2* week, that's the most Srixon suggests, then progressively build larger 15-25 yard gaps in the top end of the bag. Maybe something like 195 6 iron, 210 5 iron, 230 X, 260X... I'd much rather have tighter gaps in the scoring zone, and for my game, the longer clubs are mostly tee clubs anyway. 

[Alan Pllu]

27 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

The irons were an impulse buy. Ironically, I've been looking at the specs, and boom, a set pops up in my local driving range used club section. 

 

If I stay with this set, I'll need to pick up an entirely new set of wedges. I'd most likely go the classic 48/52/56/60 to keep the gaps tight.

 

In response, I'd most likely bend the 6i 2* week, that's the most Srixon suggests, then progressively build larger 15-25 yard gaps in the top end of the bag. Maybe something like 195 6 iron, 210 5 iron, 230 X, 260X... I'd much rather have tighter gaps in the scoring zone, and for my game, the longer clubs are mostly tee clubs anyway. 

Thats exactly what I have done this year and it worked well for me. I hardly have an approach shot at my course over 160 so it makes sense to have more clubs below this than above. 

 

My gaps are roughly

 

3w 260

19hy 235

25hy 215

6i 195

7i 180

8i 165

9i 150

Pw 135

48 120

52 110

56 100

60 85

 

It's the 135 and down zone that's made the biggest difference to my scores this season. From 200+ I have lowered my expectations to a more realistic level and I am just happy with close to the green and not in trouble! 

[Seamus_McDuff]

4 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

The irons were an impulse buy. Ironically, I've been looking at the specs, and boom, a set pops up in my local driving range used club section. 

 

If I stay with this set, I'll need to pick up an entirely new set of wedges. I'd most likely go the classic 48/52/56/60 to keep the gaps tight.

 

In response, I'd most likely bend the 6i 2* week, that's the most Srixon suggests, then progressively build larger 15-25 yard gaps in the top end of the bag. Maybe something like 195 6 iron, 210 5 iron, 230 X, 260X... I'd much rather have tighter gaps in the scoring zone, and for my game, the longer clubs are mostly tee clubs anyway. 

 

What combo set and is the PW currently standard loft?

 

I’m playing a ZU85/Z785/Z-forged combo with a 52 and 58 but am going to switch next year to a ZX combo and add a third wedge. 
 

I currently have the following heads to choose from

 

ZX4 - 4 iron

ZXU - 23 degree

ZX5/ZX7 combo - ZX5 5-7, ZX7 8-PW

ZX7 - 5-PW
 

 

[Cactus Jack]

Just now, Seamus_McDuff said:

 

What combo set and is the PW currently standard loft?

 

I’m playing a ZU85/Z785/Z-forged combo with a 52 and 58 but am going to switch next year to a ZX combo and add a third wedge. 
 

I currently have the following heads to choose from

 

ZX4 - 4 iron

ZXU - 23 degree

ZX5/ZX7 combo - ZX5 5-7, ZX7 8-PW

ZX7 - 5-PW
 

 

 

My set is 4-6 ZX5 and 7-P ZX7. I don't know the loft, but will confirm next week. There is a very real jump in distance between the 5 and 7. Be prepared to dial in your set carefully. 

 

Going from a 52 to 58 is a big gap, which a 54 would fill perfectly. 

[Seamus_McDuff]

3 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

My set is 4-6 ZX5 and 7-P ZX7. I don't know the loft, but will confirm next week. There is a very real jump in distance between the 5 and 7. Be prepared to dial in your set carefully. 

 

Going from a 52 to 58 is a big gap, which a 54 would fill perfectly. 

I’m going to get all new wedges and am thinking 50, 54, 58 or 49, 54, 59. 
 

I’m interested to hear if your PW is standard 46 considering the 48 fell perfectly in line. 

[animalgolfs]

Playing Glide 3.0 46 nowadays.....literally one of my better decisions, amongst the failures. 

[ChipNRun]

The revival of Ben Hogan golf clubs in 2016 came with an offer of irons in 1-degree loft increments from 22° to 47°... separate wedges started at 48°. Basically, the clubs had lofts shown on the clubhead, without traditional iron numbers (i.e., 5 iron, 7 iron)

 

In a discussion with Hogan reps, we came up with an idea for the game-improvement PTx irons: Squeeze out an iron at the long end by having 5° loft increments between the first two irons, and 4° increments for irons up through the wedges.

 

To left is the tentative loft mix we came up with. But, due to $$ shortage, I never bought the set.

 

 

 

 

An earlier idea on this came from Dave Pelz in Short Game Bible.

 

He recommended 15-yard gaps for full shots between all clubs (see left). Then a player could work up a wedge matrix that charts Finesse Shots with clockface backswings of 7:30, 9:00 and 10:30, matched with each of four wedges.

 

@Alan Pllu- above - came up with a similar mix.