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What Driver for an "in to out" path but open Clubface. Mavrik Max, Radspeed XD, TM D-Type


SvenS3
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Hello Guys,

 

Ihm searching for a new Driver. Coming from a 10,5 Ping SFT G410 (launch was very high and Spin also= very short hits). 

I brought a Titleist TSI3 (10 degree) with Tensei AV Raw white 60 stiff. Spin is very good now and also the launch is lower. My carry has improved by nearly 30 yards.

 

But there is a huge problem. I can't close the face enough. I'm always 2 degrees too open to the path. I'm coming from the inside between 1-4 degrees, depending on the swing type.

I checked with Titleist on a fitting what we can do. We tried everything, every Shaft, every Head, and so on. 

 

Fact is, then Tensei AV Raw white 60 S or the Tensei blue 60 X works best for me and it wasn't even close. But I can't square the face.

 

It's only a problem with my Driver.

 

Now I'm thinking of selling my Driver Head and keeping the Shaft. I would need a good starting Point and thought about the Callaway Mavrik Max, the Radspeed XD (draw) and the Taylormade D Type. Ping is not an Option this Time because of the terrible Sound.

 

What are your opinions on this, someone with the same Dilemma ?

 

Thanks Guys.

Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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Well for one, what shaft works in head A is not necessarily going to work in head B.  So you might keep the shaft and then you're pooched because you need a new shaft again.  Head weight, CoG, etc. all will influence how a shaft feels and reacts.  The pros can play the same same shaft head to head because their heads are identical to one other.  I'd bet a few pennies that Rahm's Epic driver is within like 1g of whatever TM driver he was using last year and the hot melt, face angle, and what not are indistinguishable.  

 

Personally, unless you are going to take it to a custom fitting shop and get the exact specs of your Titleist head and then replicate it in your new head, there's not really any point in holding onto the shaft.  Especially because the Tensei White is stock in a few different heads now.  I would just look to redo it all.  It's not like the new shaft is going to cost you anything extra if you go stock.  It might even be worth while just going to a TSi2 9* and setting it for max draw.  That is basically the head setup of the Mavrik and Radspeed draws anyway.

Taylormade SIM 9* - Aldila Rogue Silver

Cobra SpeedZone Tour Big 3 wood - Veylix Arcane

Callaway Rogue SZ 5 wood - Diamana Thump 85

PXG 0211DC 5-P - Elevate Tour

Titleist SM8 50, 54, 58 - Accra 123i

Bettinardi Prototype/Scotty Cameron T22 Newport

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The TSI2 is not like the Mavrik or Radspeed in my Opinion. Hit it the same as the TSI 3 (face wise)

Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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I’ve experienced it. Yes. The only answer is to get the face closed to path.  Strengthen the left hand grip , or get the path more neutral.  Or both depending on the ratio. 
 

for me I setup with the face wide open. Because open looks square to me.  And square looks shut.     Practice a bit with what looks like a dead shut face at address.  Once you start to see it draw.  You won’t go back. 
 

that being said. Standard mavrik is the most draw biased head I’ve ever hit.  If you can’t hook that. It’s you.  

TM Sim2 max 9* TB 70TX

TM 300 13.5* Tensei CK blue 80TX

TM Sim2 max 17hL MMT 70x 

Callaway  xforged UT 21 ventus blue 9x 

Titleist T100 4-pw MMT 125 TX 

Edel sms 54 58 MMT 125 TX 

Cameron GSS 009  1.5 , sound slot , tungsten sole weights , head speed shaft. 

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My swing is fine and I'm happy with it. It's a driver issue only.

 

Standard Mavrik or Mavrik Max?

 

Thanks for your Opinions

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Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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Seems like the TM Adapter is capable of putting the Head 3-4 degrees closed.

Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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I know that equipment is not changing a slice into a draw. 

 

That is not my problem. My face is only 2 degrees open, that's all. Rest is super fine and ìm a very good ball striker.

 

Just Driver is not as good as I want it to be because of the face angle.

 

So, I just want some Informations from Guys that tested the Heads and can share some experiences with the Heads.

 

Thanks for your Input

Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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Fix your swing,  I was in the same boat, didn't matter the setup got the same result with every head. So if you don't want to just pick a head you like the most and aim left. 

Lefty

Driver: 9° Ping G410 Plus - HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 6.0

3W: 13.5° Ping G410 LST - Aldila NV 2KXV Green 75X

3H: 19° Ping G410 - Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: 4i - 7i Srixon 585 / 8i - PW Srixon 785 - AMT Tour White S300

Wedges: 51° MD3 - 56° Glide 2 - 60° PM2

Putter(s): TP Mills Trad II - Lajosi Sensor - Kingdom Putter - - and more. 

WITB Thread

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I think, I still didn't make it clear enough. 

 

I DONT WANT TO FIX ANYTHING IN MY SWING. My Swing is fine and I draw everything from Wedge up to 3 Wood.

 

Just the Driver is 2 degrees open. So it's definitely a Head or Club Issue and not a Swing issue for me.

 

 

  • Like 1

Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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Can you just aim more left with the driver?  It seems like you have an aiming problem, not a swing problem.  

 

A 1-4 degree inside to out path is perfectly fine, and so is a clubface that is 2 degrees open.  I'm very similar and as a lefty, I just aim up the right side.  Clearly it must not be slicing too crazy if your carry has jumped 30 yards.  And I would disagree in it not being caused by your swing.  Just because you aren't intentionally changing your swing with the driver doesn't mean you aren't changing the swing with the driver.  I also draw everything except for my driver and I definitely think my swing is the cause, not my equipment.

 

Just aim up the left and bombs away!

Edited by dsmil

Cobra Radspeed XB 10.5* Dr - Fujikura Motore X F3 68g Stiff - 44 in.
TM Jetspeed Hybrid 19* - Matrix Studio 94 (96g) or Srixon Z F85 5 wood - Hzrdus Red Stiff

TM Jetspeed Hybrid 22* - Matrix Ozik HD Program 95 (99g) or Mizuno MP 59 3 Iron - KBS Tour Stiff
Cleveland 588 CB 4-PW - DG S300
Cleveland RTX 50*
Cleveland RTX-3 54*
Cleveland RTX-3 58*
Evnroll ER7

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Back to the task at hand, I would go Mavrik (standard) or Epic Max if I were you.  I prefer the Epic Max, as it is a good bit more forgiving than the Mavrik.  But as was noted above, the standard Mavrik is definitely draw biased.  Played it extensively last season, and it is a wonderful driver.  Great feel and sound also.  I personally never really got on with the Mav Max driver.  Epic Max to me is the best of both worlds in terms of forgiveness and being able to turn the ball over (I play the sliding weight around the middle of the channel). 

 

I've also played the TM D drivers, and those are very good as well.  Sim Max D can be had pretty cheap and is a nice head.  Pretty easy to turn the ball over.

 

YMMV and good luck.

Ping G425 Max 9* Driver, UST Mamiya Proforce V2 6F3

Cobra King SpeedZone 14.5* 3 Wood, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Blue RDX 70 6.0

Callaway Epic Flash 7 Wood, Accra FX 2.0 200F M3

Srixon Z H85 4 Hybrid, Project X HZRDUS Black 85 6.0

Ping G425 Irons 5-UW, Aerotech Steelfiber i110 R

Cleveland RTX Zipcore SW (54*/10) and LW (58*/10), Aerotech Steelfiber i110 S

Scotty Cameron 009-M Putter

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Put the TSi3 in A-4 or B-4 setting to close the face angle.  With the caveat that things may look odd at address and mess with your swing, IMO this is better than the D-type drivers that shift more weight to the heel for gear-effect / draw-spin.

 

Alternatively, since you don't want to aim left aim 358 degrees to the right.

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Sounds good, thanks for your Input.

 

Aiming is no Problem. Startline of the Ball is correct, it just turns to the right side curve a little more to the right.

 

And that only because of the Face beeing 2 degrees too open. So I would need a Head that is easier to turn than the TSI3, or a Head that is more closed from the beginning.

 

What I just don't understand is the Mavrik vs Mavrik MAX. I'm a Titleist Guy and doesn't know much about Callaway.

 

Could you please explain why the standard Mavrik and not the Max? An the Callaway Website it seems like the Max would be a better fit for the Head for turning it over by itself.

 

Thanks Guys

Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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Generally hit my irons straight but fade the driver, don't know anything about the  technical stuff. Several years ago I went to a different grip for driver only, baseball for the driver and interlock for all other clubs. Helped the slice more than anything else tried. Got that from a video some time back, would be a simple and cheap experiment.

  

                                                      

 

 

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Don´t want to be rude, but please: No more Swing tipps. I will not change my Swing.

 

This Thread is not for Swing Tips, it is for Driver Heads that will turn over more easily or solve the Problem in other Ways.

  • Like 1

Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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The thing is, if you're happy enough with your swing and ONLY want an equipment fix since you're dialed in to this face angle issue, then loft your driver up slightly. Assuming you are in A1, adding 0.75* of loft by going to D4 will close the face 1.5*. Going to A4 will close the face 3*. Either of those would be the place to start. 

  • Like 4

Taylormade SIM 10.5* Diamana X'17 70TX || Taylormade SIM 9* Diamana X'17 70X
Taylormade SIM Ti V2 15* Diamana DF 80TX || Taylormade SIM Ti 15* Kuro Kage DCXM 80TX
Taylormade M5 19* Tensei Pro White 90TX || TItleist 915FD 18* Fujikura Motore VC 9.2 Tour Spec X 
Srixon ZX Utility 20* HZRDUS Red 105 6.5 || Taylormade RSI UDI 20* Kuro Kage 100XTS Hybrid  
Bridgestone J40 DPC 4i-7i 23*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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Went for a full driver fitting.  The one clubhead I struggled the most with was the TSi3.  I couldn't close the face at all.  Even when we set the weight to draw bias.  It was the most frustrating thing I have ever endured during a fitting.  I wanted this clubhead to work because the numbers were amazing.  But hitting dead blocks, when I normally cut the ball, was beyond frustrating.  After about 30 swings, and multiple shafts, I finally gave the clubhead back to the fitter and said "put it back in the drawer and don't take it out again."

 

I would try the Epic Max LS, Sim2 Max.  These ones were beyond consistent, straight and downright long.  Was easy to turn the head over in both.  Epic Max LS didn't need much adjustment, only slightly set on the draw bias by a hair.  

 

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23 hours ago, SvenS3 said:

Seems like the TM Adapter is capable of putting the Head 3-4 degrees closed.

So are your hands. Just grip your driver with the face closed. It couldn't be any simpler than that. If your current setup leaves the face open at impact, then change your setup. In this case, your grip.

Bag 1                                                                                     Bag 2                                                     

TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5° GD YS Nano Reloaded 6X   PING Rapture 10.5° YS6+ S            

PING G25 16.5° 4 Wood UST Attas 4U 7 TS                     Titleist 906F2 15° YS6+ FW S           

Callaway Epic Flash21° 7 Wood UST Attas 4U 8S            Titleist 904F 19° Speeder S      

TaylorMade 200 4 & 5 Irons S90 Steel                              Titleist 904F 22° DG S300               

Mizuno MP30 6-PW DG AMT X100                                    PING Zing BeCu 5-SW AMT Tour White Black Onyx S300

Cobra Trusty Rusty 51° DG X100                                        PING Eye 2 XG 56° & 60° DG S300

Mizuno T20 55° & 60° DG X100                                          PING Sigma Tyne H 

Yes! Natalie Center Shafted                                                Vice Pro Plus White

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7 hours ago, SvenS3 said:

 

 

Aiming is no Problem. Startline of the Ball is correct, it just turns to the right side curve a little more to the right.

 

 

 

I still don't understand the aiming thing, unless I'm missing something.  The start line would be correct if you were hitting it straight, which you're not.  The goal shouldn't be having a zero face to path, a closed face to path, or "aiming" down the middle.  A 2 degree open face to path seems like a very playable 15-20 yard fade and you are carrying the ball 30 yards longer now.  If the ball is starting up the middle and your misses are all going right, then aiming more left helps.  Also, maybe this open face to path is better for your launch conditions (higher launch) and is one of the reasons that you are carrying the ball 30 yards farther.  Let's say your goal is to close the face 3 degrees so you now have a slight draw to match your irons.  I think it's very possible that closing the face 3 degrees will also de-loft your club, lowering your launch and spin to amounts that aren't ideal for you.  This is exactly the case for me where I draw my irons and fade my driver, and if I were to close the face down, de-loft my driver, and hit draws, it would be unplayable.  I hit level to slightly down with the driver and need the higher loft and spin.  Drawing irons and fading the driver is a very normal thing and if you are hitting it 30 yards further and just aim more left to center your dispersion pattern better, I think you're good to go.

Edited by dsmil

Cobra Radspeed XB 10.5* Dr - Fujikura Motore X F3 68g Stiff - 44 in.
TM Jetspeed Hybrid 19* - Matrix Studio 94 (96g) or Srixon Z F85 5 wood - Hzrdus Red Stiff

TM Jetspeed Hybrid 22* - Matrix Ozik HD Program 95 (99g) or Mizuno MP 59 3 Iron - KBS Tour Stiff
Cleveland 588 CB 4-PW - DG S300
Cleveland RTX 50*
Cleveland RTX-3 54*
Cleveland RTX-3 58*
Evnroll ER7

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6 hours ago, SvenS3 said:

Don´t want to be rude, but please: No more Swing tipps. I will not change my Swing.

 

This Thread is not for Swing Tips, it is for Driver Heads that will turn over more easily or solve the Problem in other Ways.

Nobody has told you to change your swing.  Just change your setup and make the same damn swing.  I can hit draws and fades at will with my driver with the same swing.  The only thing that changes is the setup.  If you're hitting fades, it's because you are somehow setting up to hit a fade.   Learn the setup to hit a draw (and then actually make the proper changes, because doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity) and then watch in amazement as the ball curves the other way for you.  It really is that simple.  It's not an equipment issue.  It's a you issue.  Like it or not, that's the deal.  

  • Like 2

Bag 1                                                                                     Bag 2                                                     

TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5° GD YS Nano Reloaded 6X   PING Rapture 10.5° YS6+ S            

PING G25 16.5° 4 Wood UST Attas 4U 7 TS                     Titleist 906F2 15° YS6+ FW S           

Callaway Epic Flash21° 7 Wood UST Attas 4U 8S            Titleist 904F 19° Speeder S      

TaylorMade 200 4 & 5 Irons S90 Steel                              Titleist 904F 22° DG S300               

Mizuno MP30 6-PW DG AMT X100                                    PING Zing BeCu 5-SW AMT Tour White Black Onyx S300

Cobra Trusty Rusty 51° DG X100                                        PING Eye 2 XG 56° & 60° DG S300

Mizuno T20 55° & 60° DG X100                                          PING Sigma Tyne H 

Yes! Natalie Center Shafted                                                Vice Pro Plus White

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The Thread can be closed know, seems like we won't get discussions for the different Club Heads. 

 

Everyone seems to be better in giving swing and setup tips. I just don't need them.

 

But thanks for the Opinions from the People who can read the Thread correctly and answer my questions.

  • Like 1

Driver: Titleist TSI 3 10* / Tensei AV Raw white 60 S
Fairway: Titleist TS 2 16,5* / Tensei AV Raw white 75 S
Hybrid: Titleist TSI2 18 / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S

DI: Titleist U500 23* / Tensei CK Pro White 90 S
Irons: Titleist T100S 5-Gap / PX 5.5
Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52 / 58 / PX 6.0 SS1x
Putter: Scotty Cameron Circle T GoLo S Center Shaft
Ball: Tour B XS


Grips: Gripmaster Kangaroo Sewn Oversize

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30 minutes ago, SvenS3 said:

The Thread can be closed know, seems like we won't get discussions for the different Club Heads. 

 

Everyone seems to be better in giving swing and setup tips. I just don't need them.

 

But thanks for the Opinions from the People who can read the Thread correctly and answer my questions.

You're delusional and in denial. Have fun spending tons of cash on different drivers and getting the same results time after time. Wait...is this really Bryson?

Bag 1                                                                                     Bag 2                                                     

TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5° GD YS Nano Reloaded 6X   PING Rapture 10.5° YS6+ S            

PING G25 16.5° 4 Wood UST Attas 4U 7 TS                     Titleist 906F2 15° YS6+ FW S           

Callaway Epic Flash21° 7 Wood UST Attas 4U 8S            Titleist 904F 19° Speeder S      

TaylorMade 200 4 & 5 Irons S90 Steel                              Titleist 904F 22° DG S300               

Mizuno MP30 6-PW DG AMT X100                                    PING Zing BeCu 5-SW AMT Tour White Black Onyx S300

Cobra Trusty Rusty 51° DG X100                                        PING Eye 2 XG 56° & 60° DG S300

Mizuno T20 55° & 60° DG X100                                          PING Sigma Tyne H 

Yes! Natalie Center Shafted                                                Vice Pro Plus White

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Tried the standard mavrik and the mavrik max at a callaway fitting. For me, the standard felt easier to shut for some reason. I know there is a weight port made on the max to help, but must have been the weird shape of the standard. Also, just crank the degree to +2 on the hosel and the face will shut a bit.

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2 hours ago, dsmil said:

I hit level to slightly down with the driver and need the higher loft and spin.  

If you hit level or slightly down on the driver, then your impact would be 0* or negative correct?  Therefore more loft and more spin would make everything much worse.  Not understanding this here....

Edited by 4bees
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55 minutes ago, 4bees said:

If you hit level or slightly down on the driver, then your impact would be 0* or negative correct?  Therefore more loft and more spin would make everything much worse.  Not understanding this here....

 

The more negative the angle of attack, the more loft and spin is needed to get the ball in the air and keep the ball in the air.  Less loft helps on ball speed but the launch becomes too low.  On the opposite end is the person who hits up on the ball and can use a lower lofted clubhead because they don't need help getting the ball in the air.  Either way, there is a launch window that works best for certain ball speeds, but how to get into that window will be influenced by angle of attack.

Cobra Radspeed XB 10.5* Dr - Fujikura Motore X F3 68g Stiff - 44 in.
TM Jetspeed Hybrid 19* - Matrix Studio 94 (96g) or Srixon Z F85 5 wood - Hzrdus Red Stiff

TM Jetspeed Hybrid 22* - Matrix Ozik HD Program 95 (99g) or Mizuno MP 59 3 Iron - KBS Tour Stiff
Cleveland 588 CB 4-PW - DG S300
Cleveland RTX 50*
Cleveland RTX-3 54*
Cleveland RTX-3 58*
Evnroll ER7

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1 hour ago, dsmil said:

 

The more negative the angle of attack, the more loft and spin is needed to get the ball in the air and keep the ball in the air.  Less loft helps on ball speed but the launch becomes too low.  On the opposite end is the person who hits up on the ball and can use a lower lofted clubhead because they don't need help getting the ball in the air.  Either way, there is a launch window that works best for certain ball speeds, but how to get into that window will be influenced by angle of attack.

this is farther from the truth than you can even imagine.  If you have more loft and a negative angle of attack your spin rates are going to be over 4000 which correlates into low distances and horrendous misses.

 

I know from experience.  And I know from seeing numbers from other people.  It is a complete misconception about adding loft on a negative angle of attack, read anything and this is the complete opposite of what anyone should be doing.  What really needs to happen is you pair a low spin low lofted head with a driver shaft that is optimal for your conditions.  

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