Asian domination

[playit]

To say Asians dominate the LPGA is an understatement. It's pretty unreal, especially Koreans. I saw something recently, it was, like, 10 out of 15 top players were Asian, and almost all of them Korean. I wonder what factors are involved such that this not happening on the PGA tour? Just curious.

[Baitkiller]

Algebra 

[c7015]

Korean Golf Dad's + Golf Cafe 

 

This phenomena is explored in detail in the book "The Goldmine Effect"  https://www.amazon.ca/Gold-Mine-Effect-Rasmus-Ankersen/dp/1443420573

 

(Great read BTW) 

 

 

[Ferguson]

I expected something more provocative from this thread, such as the proper point of entry for the fabled inverted tripod maneuver. 

[Socrates]

Sheer numbers of people driven to succeed.  I'll guarantee you that Asians don't get any Gold Medals for participation.  Success is the only valued result.  Anything less is a failure on many levels.  The downside of that is the mental toll it takes on those athletes.

 

If you get a chance, just look at the finalists for Augusta National's 2022  Drive, Chip and Putt.

[stinger_gc]

I think it's gonna happened sooner or later. This year 2 golfers of Asian descent won a major, Hideki obviously and Morikawa is half Chinese/half Japanese ethnically (he's obviously American born). Additionally 2 of the medalists at the Olympics are of Asian descent: CT Pan and Xander who's mother is Taiwanese.

 

 

I know OP is obviously referring to golfers who are Asian born and this might be a stretch but in 2021, 6 golfers of Asian descent won on the PGA Tour.

Kevin Na

Si Woo Kim

Collin Morikawa 

Hideki Matsuyama

KH Lee
Sungjae IM

 

There's actually 6 golfers from continental Asia ranked in the top 100 of the world right now. I'm not saying that Asian golfers are gonna dominate the PGA Tour, but they've come leaps and bounds since the 90s.

 

Sidenote (this might be controversial hope mods are ok with it): why has media always ignored the fact that Tiger is more Asian then he is black? His mother was born in Bangkok and his father is part Chinese.

 

[Ole3wiggle]

I would argue that Golf isn't a very popular girls sport in the USA/other countries. They have basketball, soccer, volleyball, etc here that I would say are leaps and bounds more popular than golf. Even competitive cheerleading is a more common thing. In Asia do girls have any other sports as big as golf at the moment? I'm not sure, simply asking but I assume golf is up there with anything else they may play. 

The country club dad w/ a daughter was an interesting comment above. Could also hold some weight. 

[Pepperturbo]

PGA and Mini Tour Pros that have game issues often go to the Asian or European Tour to work out the kinks, they make decent money and competition isn't as strong as the PGA.  But when it comes to Asian men, I wouldn't be surprised if they tend to stay on the Asian tour because of cultural differences.  To see what I mean, look how Asian culture operates business in America. 

 

Asian women have less golf opportunity at home, they adjust better while the LPGA offers more opportunity for their hard work.  It's NO wonder they dominate.  Asian work ethic has always been dominate over Americans. 

 

European men are similar to Asian men, most don't have any desire to play on the PGA.  The big preventative is having to make a commitment to "X" number of events to maintain playing rights.  I understand why they chose not to.

[MtlJeff]

Succeeding as a country in something is usually pretty basic, mostly it requires this:

1) Having a lot of people who care a lot about it

 

The answer is likely as has been mentioned, Asian women care about golf far more than North American women do. Women who play sports in the Americas tend to go more towards soccer, basketball , hockey , softball , or even (in canada) Rugby.

 

I do not know a single woman here who played golf growing up in my network. I assume it's similar in the US

 

 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

PGA and Mini Tour Pros that have game issues often go to the Asian or European Tour to work out the kinks, they make decent money and competition isn't as strong as the PGA.  But when it comes to Asian men, I wouldn't be surprised if they tend to stay on the Asian tour because of cultural differences.  To see what I mean, look how Asian culture operates business in America. 

 

Asian women have less golf opportunity at home, they adjust better while the LPGA offers more opportunity for their hard work.  It's NO wonder they dominate.  Asian work ethic has always been dominate over Americans. 

 

European men are similar to Asian men, most don't have any desire to play on the PGA.  The big preventative is having to make a commitment to "X" number of events to maintain playing rights.  I understand why they chose not to.

I’m with you on most of that except for the home tour bit.  Relatively to the men the KLPGA and JLPGA are quite strong compared to the mens Asian Tour.

[the bishop]

I think it would be difficult to see any South Korean male dominate on the PGA or any other high level tour.  The compulsory military service forcing one to take a 2 year hiatus from professional playing during the prime years of a career is tough to overcome.

[Jifmoli]

I think it may be because they had one hero, the Korean lady who won the US open and inspired a generation and a country perhaps only known for Taekwondo before. Then conditions must have been right for ladies golf to blossom (girls able/allowed to play, affordability and maybe state support. 

 

From Korea it may have slowly spread to other Asian countries - look at Thailand now. 

 

It would not surprise me to see in 10 to 15 years a good number of Japanese male players to be on the scene after Hideki's win at the Masters. 

[2bGood]

Korean domination of the LPGA is pretty unique and has a few factors in my view:

 

1. Money. A Korean player has far more upside playing the LPGA than an American player as there is more money involved through sponsorships. If you don't have sponsor interest playing on the LPGA is not a great career choice unless you can be at the top. 

 

2. KLPGA. This is a great development tour. Big Money, next to no travel, great competition and actual sponsorship deals. Nothing like  it in America.

 

3. Culture. Better support from parents to chase the dream.

 

I am really not sure that all of this will translate to the PGA as 1 & 2 are more about a vacuum on the lady side.

[Soloman1]

Soccer, volleyball, and many other sports are popular with Korean women, not just golf.

 

I've been to Korea several times and given seminars to KLPGA teachers. Once a junior chooses a sports, they are very dedicated to it with more intensity and discipline than most other cultures. I've spent time at Korean practice ranges and know the system pretty well.

 

The instructors are keenly curious and interested to learn as much as they can. They will all, to a person, work diligently to build a repertoire of knowledge that gives them more options to apply to students.

 

Golf pros do not manage golf courses in Asia. Business people do, so teaching is not a sideline to earn a few more dollars.

 

Those instructors have deep knowledge of the golf swing (cause and effect), biomechanics, ball flight, training methods and drills, equipment, etc far beyond what the typical western teacher has. They study technology, they study psychology, they study human movement patterns, they study golf course strategy and statistics.

 

Note: If you get triggered easily, please skip the next few paragraphs.

 

---------------- Danger ------------- 

This will sting a little, but here goes: there just aren't that many well-rounded, inquisitive, expert-class golf instructors in the west. Of course there are, but the ratio is pretty low. Maybe 1 in 10 There are about 3,000 people in the US who earn their living teaching full time. I suggest about 300 are good.

 

Many rely on their personality and have no curiosity to learn anything more than what they learned their first six months in the business as an apprentice. They've recycled it for 20 years and call that 20 years of experience.

 

Others feel something in their own swing and teach it all of their students until they get some other new feel that works for them.

 

And others are just stubborn. Golf instructor are probably more egotistical and have the "God Complex" more than doctors. Every golf teacher thinks that he or she is the best golf teacher on the planet and knows more than anyone else.

 

It's the relentless truth of the Dunning-Kruger effect - basically that the most confident people are the most incompetent people.

 

--------------Danger Zone is Finished ------------

 

Pre-Covid, there was a Korean golf/high school in Florida where juniors were immersed in golf while they went through high school. It was just like any Korean high school and the boys and girls practiced relentlessly with the guidance of Korean golf teachers.

 

The women golf students have no more talent or physical predisposition to golf. They just work harder at it. They, just like the teachers, are not satisfied with doing things half way as many times in the west.

 

"Hey, that's good enough," is not part of the culture.

 

The government does provide money and support to nurture juniors in all sports, not just golf.

 

It's no different than what Hogan used to say about outworking other people. He thought that he fell behind if he missed a day of practice. They have the dedication that Ben Hogan had.

 

So maybe Hogan was reincarnated into oodles of Korean women golfers?

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Soloman1

[iBanesto]

26 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Soccer, volleyball, and many other sports are popular with Korean women, not just golf.

 

I've been to Korea several times and given seminars to KLPGA teachers. Once a junior chooses a sports, they are very dedicated to it with more intensity and discipline than most other cultures. I've spent time at Korean practice ranges and know the system pretty well.

 

The instructors are keenly curious and interested to learn as much as they can. They will all, to a person, work diligently to build a repertoire of knowledge that gives them more options to apply to students.

 

Golf pros do not manage golf courses in Asia. Business people do, so teaching is not a sideline to earn a few more dollars.

 

Those instructors have deep knowledge of the golf swing (cause and effect), biomechanics, ball flight, training methods and drills, equipment, etc far beyond what the typical western teacher has. The study technology, they study psychology, they study human movement patterns, they study golf course strategy and statistics. They are satisfied with doing anything half way...

 

Note: If you get triggered easily, please skip the next few paragraphs.

 

---------------- Danger ------------- 

This will sting a little, but here goes: there just aren't that many well-rounded, inquisitive, expert-class golf instructors in the west. Of course there are, but the ratio is pretty low. Maybe 1 in 10 There are about 3,000 people in the US who earn their living teaching full time. I suggest about 300 are good.

 

Many rely on their personality and have no curiosity to learn anything more than what they learned their first six months in the business as an apprentice. They've recycled it for 20 years and call that 20 years of experience.

 

Others feel something in their own swing and teach it all of their students until they get some other new feel that works for them.

 

And others are just stubborn. Golf instructor are probably more egotistical and have the "God Complex" more than doctors. Every golf teacher thinks that he or she is the best golf teacher on the planet and knows more than anyone else.

 

It's the relentless truth of the Dunning-Kruger effect - basically that the most confident people are the most incompetent people.

 

--------------Danger Zone is Finished ------------

 

Pre-Covid, there was a Korean golf/high school in Florida where juniors were immersed in golf while they went through high school. It was just like any Korean high school and the boys and girls practiced relentlessly with the guidance of Korean golf teachers.

 

The women golf students have no more talent or physical predisposition to golf. They just work harder at it. They, just like the teachers, are not satisfied with doing things half way as many times in the west.

 

"Hey, that's good enough," is not part of the culture.

 

The government does provide money and support to nurture juniors in all sports, not just golf.

 

It's no different than what Hogan used to say about outworking other people. He thought that he fell behind if he missed a day of practice. They have the dedication that Ben Hogan had.

 

So maybe Hogan was reincarnated into oodles of Korean women golfers?

 

How about Korean archery as well? Pure dominance in team events and women's archery.

 

Systematic training and they treat the sport as a job from a young age. I think support for talented children may be a very significant factor in South Korea's success.

 

In terms of male South Korean golfer not being as dominated, could be due to the greater depth on the PGA Tour. There are more male participants from juniors, mini tours and top pro golf which means it would be harder to do well.

 

However, now you can see Asian golfers in general being taller and stronger, thus now they are beginning to have the required power to compete in the US.

 

South Korea probably has more PGA Tour members than any other Asian country right?

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by iBanesto

[Naptime]

4 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

I think it's gonna happened sooner or later. This year 2 golfers of Asian descent won a major, Hideki obviously and Morikawa is half Chinese/half Japanese ethnically (he's obviously American born). Additionally 2 of the medalists at the Olympics are of Asian descent: CT Pan and Xander who's mother is Taiwanese.

 

 

I know OP is obviously referring to golfers who are Asian born and this might be a stretch but in 2021, 6 golfers of Asian descent won on the PGA Tour.

Kevin Na

Si Woo Kim

Collin Morikawa 

Hideki Matsuyama

KH Lee
Sungjae IM

 

There's actually 6 golfers from continental Asia ranked in the top 100 of the world right now. I'm not saying that Asian golfers are gonna dominate the PGA Tour, but they've come leaps and bounds since the 90s.

 

Sidenote (this might be controversial hope mods are ok with it): why has media always ignored the fact that Tiger is more Asian then he is black? His mother was born in Bangkok and his father is part Chinese.

 

 

Tiger is half Thai so need to count all his wins too.

[stinger_gc]

33 minutes ago, Naptime said:

 

Tiger is half Thai so need to count all his wins too.

He's 1/4 Thai and 1/4 Chinese. He's more Asian American then he is black

[miamistomp]

What is wrong with just being American !

Hyphens just divide people

Dude was born in California

[Soloman1]

59 minutes ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

He's 1/4 Thai and 1/4 Chinese. He's more Asian American then he is black

 

Technically, he's half Asian and half alien/cyborg.

 

No human could play like him for so long.

[Valtiel]

58 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

What is wrong with just being American !

Hyphens just divide people

Dude was born in California

 

Hyphens are ways to accurately call out relevant background, what ironically divides people is the thinking that you need to either be 100% "American" or not at all, which is dumb. 

 

Great posts by by everyone else, especially @Soloman1's danger zone. 😅

[stingerfade]

5 hours ago, Jifmoli said:

I think it may be because they had one hero, the Korean lady who won the US open and inspired a generation and a country perhaps only known for Taekwondo before. Then conditions must have been right for ladies golf to blossom (girls able/allowed to play, affordability and maybe state support. 

 

From Korea it may have slowly spread to other Asian countries - look at Thailand now. 

 

It would not surprise me to see in 10 to 15 years a good number of Japanese male players to be on the scene after Hideki's win at the Masters. 

The Korean Lady has a name. Se Ri Pak. Respect 

[bscinstnct]

Threads kind of a let down 

 

🤣

[stingerfade]

11 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Threads kind of a let down 

 

🤣

It’s not GolfHub!

[playit]

And now Rickie Fowler has read this thread because he is speaking at the Zozo Championship in Japan, talking about Japanese culture was a big part of his life as his grandpa is Japanese. lol!

[extrastiff]

3 hours ago, miamistomp said:

What is wrong with just being American !

Hyphens just divide people

Dude was born in California

Stop asking questions. If we take the hyphen away... well that’s just unpatriotic. We must label with relevant backgrounds so others with irrelevant backgrounds will not be confused. 

[tw_focus]

3 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

He's 1/4 Thai and 1/4 Chinese. He's more Asian American then he is black

 

TW is Cablinasian.

 

TW is what he says he is, you have no prerogative or say in the matter. And that goes for everyone, both ways.

[tacklingdummy]

7 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

Soccer, volleyball, and many other sports are popular with Korean women, not just golf.

 

I've been to Korea several times and given seminars to KLPGA teachers. Once a junior chooses a sports, they are very dedicated to it with more intensity and discipline than most other cultures. I've spent time at Korean practice ranges and know the system pretty well.

 

The instructors are keenly curious and interested to learn as much as they can. They will all, to a person, work diligently to build a repertoire of knowledge that gives them more options to apply to students.

 

Golf pros do not manage golf courses in Asia. Business people do, so teaching is not a sideline to earn a few more dollars.

 

Those instructors have deep knowledge of the golf swing (cause and effect), biomechanics, ball flight, training methods and drills, equipment, etc far beyond what the typical western teacher has. They study technology, they study psychology, they study human movement patterns, they study golf course strategy and statistics.

 

Note: If you get triggered easily, please skip the next few paragraphs.

 

---------------- Danger ------------- 

This will sting a little, but here goes: there just aren't that many well-rounded, inquisitive, expert-class golf instructors in the west. Of course there are, but the ratio is pretty low. Maybe 1 in 10 There are about 3,000 people in the US who earn their living teaching full time. I suggest about 300 are good.

 

Many rely on their personality and have no curiosity to learn anything more than what they learned their first six months in the business as an apprentice. They've recycled it for 20 years and call that 20 years of experience.

 

Others feel something in their own swing and teach it all of their students until they get some other new feel that works for them.

 

And others are just stubborn. Golf instructor are probably more egotistical and have the "God Complex" more than doctors. Every golf teacher thinks that he or she is the best golf teacher on the planet and knows more than anyone else.

 

It's the relentless truth of the Dunning-Kruger effect - basically that the most confident people are the most incompetent people.

 

--------------Danger Zone is Finished ------------

 

Pre-Covid, there was a Korean golf/high school in Florida where juniors were immersed in golf while they went through high school. It was just like any Korean high school and the boys and girls practiced relentlessly with the guidance of Korean golf teachers.

 

The women golf students have no more talent or physical predisposition to golf. They just work harder at it. They, just like the teachers, are not satisfied with doing things half way as many times in the west.

 

"Hey, that's good enough," is not part of the culture.

 

The government does provide money and support to nurture juniors in all sports, not just golf.

 

It's no different than what Hogan used to say about outworking other people. He thought that he fell behind if he missed a day of practice. They have the dedication that Ben Hogan had.

 

So maybe Hogan was reincarnated into oodles of Korean women golfers?

 

 

 

 

Not much in the way of participation trophies in Korea. Very merit based culture.  

[Jifmoli]

3 hours ago, stingerfade said:

The Korean Lady has a name. Se Ri Pak. Respect 

Mea culpa, couldn't recall her name and didn't take the time to look it up. The US Open special documentary about her win is worthwhile to watch. 

[Hankshank]

Pretty sure there are some Bangladeshian, Nigerian, Indonesian super golf genes wandering on planet earth as well.

[bladehunter]

I’ll take a stab in the dark here.  Maybe it’s Korean parents ?  As in a rules/respect  based household with expectations and consequences.