Asian domination

[Soloman1]

54 minutes ago, 1putt2win2 said:

 

China is a communist country, most kids don't grow up thinking about playing sports, if they did golf wasn't on the radar until maybe now. 

 

Yes, kids do grow up thinking about playing sports - soccer and basketball, volleyball, gymnastics and many other sports. Having been to the national sports university and seen the facilities, it's very evident. I don't think you've been to China, have you?

 

People are governments are not the same.

[Fairway14]

On 10/21/2021 at 10:11 AM, playit said:

To say Asians dominate the LPGA is an understatement. It's pretty unreal, especially Koreans. I saw something recently, it was, like, 10 out of 15 top players were Asian, and almost all of them Korean.

 

Mostly it is due to Asian culture players learning sound fundamental technique and a willingness to practice same for the thousands of hours required to produce consistently low scores.

[miamistomp]

 I bet these guys would rule if they played golf...

 

[tacklingdummy]

6 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Yes, kids do grow up thinking about playing sports - soccer and basketball, volleyball, gymnastics and many other sports. Having been to the national sports university and seen the facilities, it's very evident. I don't think you've been to China, have you?

 

People are governments are not the same.

 

But the CCP government determines a lot of what sports kids will play and be supported. It is determined at a very young age. They start to pick them at the age of 4 and separate them from their parents to be put in boarding schools where they will supported and trained to become national athletes. I have been to China many times. I am Chinese. 

[Soloman1]

21 minutes ago, golfer929 said:

I think within the next 5-10 years, you will see a big switch happening where American women will become more prevalent on the LPGA.

 

I agree with much of what you wrote; however, I'm not as optimistic as you that American women will have a sudden collective epiphany to work harder.

 

If people fail to accept the difference in work ethic as being real, new programs, empty words, photo-ops and money won't change a thing.

[Soloman1]

2 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

But the CCP government determines a lot of what sports kids will play and be supported. It is determined at a very young age. They start to pick them at the age of 4 and separate them from their parents to be put in boarding schools where they will supported and trained to become national athletes. I have been to China many times. I am Chinese. 

 

I agree that the national athletic programs do that. But I know so many people who have kids that choose and play sports in school with no influence from the CCP. I would say the parents are more powerful! 🙂

[tacklingdummy]

3 hours ago, Cpk23 said:

Bigger question is why hasnt China produced a remotely good PGA tour player? I'm not talking someone on the fringe, I'm talking a real talent.

 

I think several reasons. Lack of support in China. Chinese government frowns greatly on golf. Not accessible for a large majority of the population because of the cost and lack of practice facilities/golf courses. Most families push education and sports are not even on the radar unless coming from a wealthy family.  

[tacklingdummy]

2 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I agree that the national athletic programs do that. But I know so many people who have kids that choose and play sports in school with no influence from the CCP. I would say the parents are more powerful! 🙂

 

Yeah, I'd bet money that any of the pro golfers that came from China are from very wealthy families which is a very small part of the population. Also, there still is a great lack of accessibility for golf in China. Not much in the way of practice facilities/golf courses in China because the CCP government has destroyed hundreds of golf courses.

[golfer929]

23 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I agree with much of what you wrote; however, I'm not as optimistic as you that American women will have a sudden collective epiphany to work harder.

 

If people fail to accept the difference in work ethic as being real, new programs, empty words, photo-ops and money won't change a thing.

I agree with that. If the work ethic isn't there, it doesn't matter how much money is thrown at it. I'm just hopeful I suppose. 5 years is probably a good stretch. 10 years might be enough time for some noticeable change

[rgk5]

I have a friend whose daughter has been an LPGA Tour Pro for 16 years.  She told me that after a round most of the Asian gals head for the range while the Americans head to the closest mall. 🙂

[Soloman1]

8 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Yeah, I'd bet money that any of the pro golfers that came from China are from very wealthy families which is a very small part of the population. Also, there still is a great lack of accessibility for golf in China. Not much in the way of practice facilities/golf courses in China because the CCP government has destroyed hundreds of golf courses.

 

Sure, there are not that many courses, but there are now thousands of indoor facilities now in all cities.

 

I'm pretty sure that 111 courses were closed at the time there were about 400 courses, but another 300 or so have been built using some creative licensing language. It's still not many, but it matches the demand. I expect the participation will decline as the energy problem and other economic pressures continue.

[Shilgy]

On 10/21/2021 at 1:54 PM, the bishop said:

I think it would be difficult to see any South Korean male dominate on the PGA or any other high level tour.  The compulsory military service forcing one to take a 2 year hiatus from professional playing during the prime years of a career is tough to overcome.

“All” they need to do is win an Olympic medal and they won’t need to do military service.

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/tokyo-summer-olympics/for-south-koreans-olympic-medal-is-only-way-out-of-military/3181580/

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, ezpz said:

Maybe a slight side track but I was actualy suprised how much money can be made on the japanese mens tour. 

That because it takes 113.57 yen to make a US dollar.😏

[ShowMe]

23 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Technically, he's half Asian and half alien/cyborg.

 

No human could play like him for so long.

 

The drugs helped a lot.

[ShowMe]

9 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Services (I use the word lightly) like 23andMe are about as reliable as tarot cards.

 

They are only interested in collecting your genetic information and that of as many people as possible, so they can eventually use it to identify you by correlating it with other information. One of the founders of 23andMe is married to Sergei Brin, the founder of Google.

 

 

 

Ironically, I used Google to look up your claim.

[aenemated]

6 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Completely agree. Have done a lot of business in Asia. I don't like to generalize (and Asian countries are very different), but on the whole, there are three major differences between US and Asian culture.

 

First, they are simply way more disciplined about education. There's little "grade inflation".

 

Second, family tends to be much stronger in Asia than in the US. Parents support their children, but also expect them to work and succeed.

 

And third, the sense of entitlement that has grown significantly in the US (especially over the last decade) doesn't exist to anywhere close to the same degree in most of Asia. There are very few "snowflakes" in South Korea or China.

 

Having worked as a programmer for going on 25 years now, MOST of my friends are Asian including my best friend of over half my life ... I can say all of this is true in my experience. 

 

At my old job, my team was me and ... one other guy. Born in Mainland China and moved to the US when he was 17. I'd guess he was in his early 30s when we started working together and I then spent 5 years working closely with him 40+ hours a week. Learned a whole lot about growing up over there and yeah, the culture is just so completely different; down to the whole idea of "self." Like, the good of everyone above you is more important than you individually. 

 

I feel like this cultural norm contributes to what you mentioned. 

 

That being said, I remember we were talking over lunch one day and he mentioned he was going on vacation back to China. I was like "Oh, cool" to which he said "No way, not cool at all. I hate China but my wife's making me go." Haha

Edited October 23, 2021 by aenemated

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, golfer929 said:

I would argue that in the USA, there are not enough opportunities/avenues for women to play golf professionally. They lack major amounts of support needed to make it to the next level once they leave college golf.

 

1. For women, there is the LPGA, the Symetra Tour, and after that, only TWO mini-tours for them to play on. Even if they win every single event of one of these mini-tours, they are pretty close to breaking even on their money for the season. Compare that to the men in USA, where there is the PGA, the Korn Ferry, and then TWENTY PLUS mini-tours for them to play on. Obviously, this needs a change in some capacity. Because right now, if you do not come from a family who can spend the amount necessary to go out and chase this dream of playing on the LPGA tour, it is very tough for any American woman. This leads me into my next point..

 

2. American women do not receive anywhere close to the same level of sponsorship/financial support compared to their Asian peers. Young women trying to make it as a professional golfer that come from Asia have a lot easier time getting sponsorship/financial support. If you have money, you can afford to just go out and play your game and not worry about the financial side of things. This is a big proponent of stress for many young women in America trying to play golf for a living.

 

Additionally, a lot of people in this thread need to go outside to their nearest golf course and take a look around because there are some antiquated views in here that need to stop immediately. "They are too worried about their fashion" Hey guys, this isn't the 50's any longer, these girls can play and will take your money with ease. These girls want to win. What's wrong with them wanting to look good as well? I guess you go to work everyday looking like a slob so they should too? Or does your wife pick out your clothes for you? "They just want participation trophies!" Who is the one giving the participation trophies out? Because unless the kids are the coach of the team or run the organization, its not them. Look inward. Kids and young adults know who won and lost, and aren't out there asking for participation trophies when they play. If you think this, then you haven't been around many young people recently.

 

There is something to be said about different cultures and how they operate, I truly believe that is a contributing factor. But that's not to say that Asian women are innately better at golf than American women. It comes down to a lot of different factors at play, and I think within the next 5-10 years, you will see a big switch happening where American women will become more prevalent on the LPGA.

 

Chicken or the egg? There are a lot of quality players on the mens mini tours. Not so much on the womens.  Guessing one of the two women’s mini tours is the Cactus tour here in Phoenix?  There are very few quality players on that tour.  They had a few events a year ago with more good players because a few of the LPGA players played it during the LPGA hiatus from Covid.

 

There are only two womens minis and they cannot fill with good players.

[Neo1]

1 hour ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Yes, kids do grow up thinking about playing sports - soccer and basketball, volleyball, gymnastics and many other sports. Having been to the national sports university and seen the facilities, it's very evident. I don't think you've been to China, have you?

 

People are governments are not the same.

 

I'm chinese american, i've been to China 2 times in my life, 3 if you count Hong Kong. grew up in a very asian style household and i can just say from my life experience and other asians growing up in the states sports and career weren't the old generations idea for their child. i can only imagine in China what it's like. do realize i said "Most" in my first post. sure china shows up and is prideful in the olympics for gold medals and such but the topic were talking about is golf and it just came back in 2016. i believe in the future we will see more Chinese golfers in the top world rankings but that generation is still growing. Also i disagree with you in thinking that the government doesn't influence the peoples idea of life. the freedom in the united states is the reason why we see so much diversity and creative minds to push excellence for ourselves. In China you're pretty much representing the country and in the states and other parts of the world you're pushing for yourself...that is a strong influencer.

[ShowMe]

3 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I agree with much of what you wrote; however, I'm not as optimistic as you that American women will have a sudden collective epiphany to work harder.

 

If people fail to accept the difference in work ethic as being real, new programs, empty words, photo-ops and money won't change a thing.

 

Nice.  Insult the collective of "American women."  Chicks dig that.

[tacklingdummy]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Chicken or the egg? There are a lot of quality players on the mens mini tours. Not so much on the womens.  Guessing one of the two women’s mini tours is the Cactus tour here in Phoenix?  There are very few quality players on that tour.  They had a few events a year ago with more good players because a few of the LPGA players played it during the LPGA hiatus from Covid.

 

There are only two womens minis and they cannot fill with good players.

 

I agree with that. The depth of talent for women pros in the US is no comparison to Korea. In Korea, the women pros that did not make it on the KLPGA are still excellent players and instructors. The talent is extremely deep for the pro women in Korea. They would be cleaning up on the mini tours. However, I don't think any of them want to leave Korea to try to play professionally because they are treated like rock stars make good money. Many of them teach (IQs of the golf swing is extremely high), have lots of brand sponsors, and get a lot of TV and YouTube appearances. I follow many of them and I know they do extremely well financially compared to women's mini-tour players or former mini tour players in the US. 

[ezpz]

9 hours ago, Shilgy said:

That because it takes 113.57 yen to make a US dollar.😏

Sorry, forgot some people were only aware of pga tour level prize pools.

[the bishop]

10 hours ago, Shilgy said:

“All” they need to do is win an Olympic medal and they won’t need to do military service.

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/tokyo-summer-olympics/for-south-koreans-olympic-medal-is-only-way-out-of-military/3181580/

[Murphy76]

On 10/22/2021 at 5:30 PM, c7015 said:

I mean if we are all 6 degrees of separation from Genghis Khan our DNA is going to be all over the place ideally selecting the strongest genes of each generation. 

 

My wife did the DNA test too and is an adopted Korean, it came back nearly 30% Japanese , but I suspect a large % of the Korean population would see the same stat if they took the test too due to the natural patterns of immigration over X thousand years...

 

 

I don't think that has to do with immigration.  In WWII, the Japanese were...."less than friendly" to the people of Korea and China.

 

The Rape of Nanjing was named that for a fairly good reason.

 

  

Edited October 24, 2021 by Murphy76

[bobfoster]

18 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Sure, there are not that many courses, but there are now thousands of indoor facilities now in all cities.

 

I'm pretty sure that 111 courses were closed at the time there were about 400 courses, but another 300 or so have been built using some creative licensing language. It's still not many, but it matches the demand. I expect the participation will decline as the energy problem and other economic pressures continue.

Yes. Golf simply isn't very present in Chinese culture.

 

[The following stats are approximate, round numbers.]

 

China has 1.4 billion people. The US has around 330 million. 

 

But China has around 3 million people that consider themselves golfers (play at least once or twice a year). The US has 25 million or so. China currently has around 500 courses. Florida alone has 1,100 - over twice the number of all of China. Though golf goes through peaks and lows (in the US too). I believe it is currently growing in China. Still, the disparity is enormous.

 

I've played golf in China (have done business in Beijing and Guangzhou). Don't claim to be an expert on China, but in my personal experience, it is virtually only for elites in business and politics. And most of the Chinese businessmen I played with (yes, men - saw very few women playing) had developed a taste for the game due to travels in Australia, the EU, or US, where golf is a much larger part of corporate culture. 

 

And (again, anecdotal) most of the guys I played with there (with a couple of exceptions) simply weren't very good. The focus was more on the social/business aspects of the game rather than the sport itself. I met almost none of the sort of fanatics it is common to run into in the US. A WRX-like discussion board would never get off the ground there.

 

Note that these are just personal experiences - would be glad to be corrected by people that have visited (or lived) and played there far more often than I.

Edited October 23, 2021 by bobfoster

[Soloman1]

20 hours ago, c7015 said:

 

My wife did the DNA test too and is an adopted Korean, it came back nearly 30% Japanese , but I suspect a large % of the Korean population would see the same stat if they took the test too due to the natural patterns of immigration over X thousand years...

 

I would agree with you. There is so much mixture of genetic lineage from jomon, ainu, Ryukyuan, etc., people. They came from eastern Siberia, Korea, Taiwan, China, Indochina and all over Asia and the Pacific.

[iBanesto]

On 10/23/2021 at 10:09 AM, miamistomp said:

 I bet these guys would rule if they played golf...

 

 

West Indies?

 

They don't even do well in cricket these days.

[miamistomp]

Masai African warriors...

[stinger_gc]

2 wins in 3 weeks for Asian golfers on tour. I think Asian golf will be fine. Plenty of great players like Hideki, Sung Jae Im, Si Woo. People forget that Si Woo won the Players in 2017.

I think Korea's mandatory military service is an absolute killer for these guys. Sang Moon Bae won twice on tour in 2014-15 before going for military service.  I think Sung Jae is gonna win a major soon. Great swing and can go stupid low.

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, Chippy8 said:

Are there as many Asian women dominating tennis like in golf?  

There are no women dominating right now in tennis.

[Itsjustagame]

As pointed out South Korean female golfers are rock stars.

Women's sports in the US are not very well supported by fans/sponsors. 

This is true in sports beyond golf. If Mikaela Shiffrin (who just won another World Cup event to bring her total to 70 victories) skied for many European countries she would be a national hero.

In the US many sports fans have never heard of her.

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Itsjustagame