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As pointed out South Korean female golfers are rock stars.

Women's sports in the US are not very well supported by fans/sponsors. 

This is true in sports beyond golf. If Mikaela Shiffrin (who just won another World Cup event to bring her total to 70 victories) skied for many European countries she would be a national hero.

In the US many sports fans have never heard of her.

 

Edited by Itsjustagame
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On 10/22/2021 at 11:41 AM, JDIL said:

 

 

But my snap judgment ... strength. Asian bodies are different, and indeed their bodies are changing. The bulk of the LPGA players hit 250-260 plus and minus.


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18 hours ago, Itsjustagame said:

As pointed out South Korean female golfers are rock stars.

Women's sports in the US are not very well supported by fans/sponsors. 

This is true in sports beyond golf. If Mikaela Shiffrin (who just won another World Cup event to bring her total to 70 victories) skied for many European countries she would be a national hero.

In the US many sports fans have never heard of her.

 


Ya, and that figure skater!

 

She was like a royalty rockstar in Korea. 

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54 minutes ago, puresurfr said:

 

Although they may not be dominating, Naomi Osaka and Emma Radacanu have won  Grand Slams lately, that isn't exactly shabby play.

Naomi dominated for a minute and has been on a steady decline as of late. Emma had a great run at Wimbledon and is the reigning US Open champion. Definitely not shabby, but not close to dominating. I’ll agree with @Shilgy and say there are no women dominating right now in tennis. Which I think is great. 

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4 hours ago, puresurfr said:

 

Although they may not be dominating, Naomi Osaka and Emma Radacanu have won  Grand Slams lately, that isn't exactly shabby play.

They have had dominating performances for sure.  Osaka has the potential to be a dominant force but I’m not sure mentally she’s made for it.

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On 10/22/2021 at 3:14 PM, Blonde Line Lizard said:

Second verse, same as the first.

 

Perhaps the American LPGA players care more about fashion and how they look rather than playing golf.

Well, it isn't either/or. There are some great American LPGA players. But we always have to remember that both women and men golfers are, fundamentally, entertainers (as are those in any sport). The top men and women in golf make more (in fact, far more) from endorsements than they do from actual tournament winnings. And yes, fashion, and "how they look" is part of optimizing that income stream. How you look is part of your personal brand. 

 

When Tiger signed with Nike (possibly some of the largest endorsement money of anyone in any sport), the deal wasn't just that he would play Nike clubs - it was that he'd also wear Nike pants, and shirts, and shoes.

 

You do have to play really well to get endorsement money, but if you also look hot (men or women) your potential income goes up. Yes - I know it is very unfair, incredibly politically incorrect, not anything like, y'know, the purity of sport solely for the sake of sport and all that, but anyone who thinks that marketing departments at OEMs don't factor golfers' style and presentation into endorsement contracts just isn't living in the modern world. 

 

This wasn't so much the case two or three decades ago (yes, I'm getting old), but a golfer's image is as much a part of endorsement contracts as skill at the game is. It isn't any longer just how you hit a golf ball, it is how your Instagram pic looks while you're hitting it, how engaging your personality is on Tik-Toks. There are some truly great Korean golfers right now, they almost dominate the LPGA top 25. Because (as someone on this thread said) they'll go to the range after a tournament while American women will go to a mall. But while the top level of American women may earn a bit less from tournaments than the top Koreans do, their total income in some cases is more - precisely because they balance the practice range with the mall. Some of the best Koreans project a sense of being almost emotionless automatons - spectacular golfers, but just not very engaging. OEMs endorse to sell products. 

 

Kind of blunt, and a bit harsh, but it really is the truth of modern marketing. 

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On 10/25/2021 at 10:35 AM, Itsjustagame said:

As pointed out South Korean female golfers are rock stars.

Women's sports in the US are not very well supported by fans/sponsors. 

This is true in sports beyond golf. If Mikaela Shiffrin (who just won another World Cup event to bring her total to 70 victories) skied for many European countries she would be a national hero.

In the US many sports fans have never heard of her.

 

 

Shiffrin should be lauded in the US for her dominance in alpine skiing. She has transformed herself from a purely slalom skiier to dominating the World Cup.

 

I'm pretty sure Vonn was lauded in the US for her skiing achievements though. But I guess Vonn was more marketable or sought more recognition than Shiffrin.

 

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On 10/24/2021 at 6:43 PM, Shilgy said:

There are no women dominating right now in tennis.

 

Maybe it has something to do with tennis being a reaction sport and requiring quicker innate decision making versus golf which seems more regimented when it comes to decision making.  I don't believe tennis players are ever put on the clock for slow play.  Just wondering aloud.

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1 hour ago, Chippy8 said:

 

Maybe it has something to do with tennis being a reaction sport and requiring quicker innate decision making versus golf which seems more regimented when it comes to decision making.  I don't believe tennis players are ever put on the clock for slow play.  Just wondering aloud.

What would that have to do with a dominating figure in the sport. Mens tennis is even more reactionary and certainly has dominant players. 3 in fact though that may be now down to 1.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/23/2021 at 7:18 AM, tacklingdummy said:

 

I think several reasons. Lack of support in China. Chinese government frowns greatly on golf. Not accessible for a large majority of the population because of the cost and lack of practice facilities/golf courses. Most families push education and sports are not even on the radar unless coming from a wealthy family.  

I moved to Shanghai from the US about ten years ago and have seen the game grow and evolve around the country.  Overall, I would say the game is growing quite rapidly and gaining more and more golfers.  It is still, however, not "available" for a great part of the population.  A round of golf is around $100-$200, an hour at the range runs $15-20, clubs (real ones) are way over priced vs. US or Europe, and a teaching pro (average one) charges around $150+ per hour.  Even with that said, driving range bays are always filled and many courses around the cities are booked full every weekend.  In a country bustling with economic growth, and opportunities for people to earn a lifetime of money in a short amount of time (even though probabilistically not high), the absolute number of people approaching and falling in love with the game is enough to build a good sports base here.  The govt is not too fond of the game, and some courses have been shut down (primarily because they were previously not registered or licensed legally), and very few new courses are being built in major city hubs.  That doesn't stop development of golfing destinations to drive tourism or investment in areas of the country that could use it.  I personally have been invited to several government led and sponsored golfing events, in order to promote golf and other projects around 3rd tier cities.  Given the natural barrier of golf, not just in China, but all around the world, it will always be a niche sport.  I do see so many younger kids taking up the sport at the ranges or looking near scratch or low single digit at the course.  I think China will produce more elite golfers in the future.  I think the likely path will be privileged kids immigrating to the US around middle school or high school time, in order to join up in a junior golf academy, and then find their way to play college golf.  With a base of 1.3b+ in population, the chances can be slim and still quite a few can rise to the top.  

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12 hours ago, tikidavyi said:

I moved to Shanghai from the US about ten years ago and have seen the game grow and evolve around the country.  Overall, I would say the game is growing quite rapidly and gaining more and more golfers.  It is still, however, not "available" for a great part of the population.  A round of golf is around $100-$200, an hour at the range runs $15-20, clubs (real ones) are way over priced vs. US or Europe, and a teaching pro (average one) charges around $150+ per hour.  Even with that said, driving range bays are always filled and many courses around the cities are booked full every weekend.  In a country bustling with economic growth, and opportunities for people to earn a lifetime of money in a short amount of time (even though probabilistically not high), the absolute number of people approaching and falling in love with the game is enough to build a good sports base here.  The govt is not too fond of the game, and some courses have been shut down (primarily because they were previously not registered or licensed legally), and very few new courses are being built in major city hubs.  That doesn't stop development of golfing destinations to drive tourism or investment in areas of the country that could use it.  I personally have been invited to several government led and sponsored golfing events, in order to promote golf and other projects around 3rd tier cities.  Given the natural barrier of golf, not just in China, but all around the world, it will always be a niche sport.  I do see so many younger kids taking up the sport at the ranges or looking near scratch or low single digit at the course.  I think China will produce more elite golfers in the future.  I think the likely path will be privileged kids immigrating to the US around middle school or high school time, in order to join up in a junior golf academy, and then find their way to play college golf.  With a base of 1.3b+ in population, the chances can be slim and still quite a few can rise to the top.  


 

Nice share, appreciate the insight.

 

Excellent point when you say, of talent from China making it on the tour…

 

“the likely path will be privileged kids immigrating to the US around middle school or high school time, in order to join up in a junior golf academy, and then find their way to play college golf.”

 

For “Home grown” Chinese golfers having an impact, it’s really a question of if golf takes hold as a passion and pass time of the middle/upper middle classes. Just because those classes grow and gain the income, does not necessarily translate to the multi-generational, nation-wide focus for a society to develop top competitive talent in a sport.

 

For example, the US has every possible basic foundation for us to have world class

 

Cricket players!

 

But…we don’t ; )

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14 hours ago, tikidavyi said:

I moved to Shanghai from the US about ten years ago and have seen the game grow and evolve around the country.  Overall, I would say the game is growing quite rapidly and gaining more and more golfers.  It is still, however, not "available" for a great part of the population.  A round of golf is around $100-$200, an hour at the range runs $15-20, clubs (real ones) are way over priced vs. US or Europe, and a teaching pro (average one) charges around $150+ per hour.  Even with that said, driving range bays are always filled and many courses around the cities are booked full every weekend.  In a country bustling with economic growth, and opportunities for people to earn a lifetime of money in a short amount of time (even though probabilistically not high), the absolute number of people approaching and falling in love with the game is enough to build a good sports base here.  The govt is not too fond of the game, and some courses have been shut down (primarily because they were previously not registered or licensed legally), and very few new courses are being built in major city hubs.  That doesn't stop development of golfing destinations to drive tourism or investment in areas of the country that could use it.  I personally have been invited to several government led and sponsored golfing events, in order to promote golf and other projects around 3rd tier cities.  Given the natural barrier of golf, not just in China, but all around the world, it will always be a niche sport.  I do see so many younger kids taking up the sport at the ranges or looking near scratch or low single digit at the course.  I think China will produce more elite golfers in the future.  I think the likely path will be privileged kids immigrating to the US around middle school or high school time, in order to join up in a junior golf academy, and then find their way to play college golf.  With a base of 1.3b+ in population, the chances can be slim and still quite a few can rise to the top.  

 

Yeah, I have been to China several times (I'm Chinese) traveled quite a bit through the country and had family that went to school in Shanghai. The main issue is still the number of golf courses available to the public in relation to how big the populations in the big cities. The golf courses are crowded because there are only a handful of public golf courses and ranges compared to the population. To compare, the US has about 15,000 golf courses for a population of 325M compared to 500 golf courses for population of 1.4B. 

 

But also there is the accessibility of being able to afford golf. In the big cities, there are some people that make decent money in the upper echelons but it is not the norm for most of the cities in China and the rest of the population. Most people in second and third tier cities only make a few hundred dollars a month. I have visited some public golf courses in second and third tier cities.  They are expensive from $100-300. Even the public golf courses were mainly for wealthier vacationers that traveled to play there. Aside from vacationers playing the courses, they were empty. Very, very few of the residents play there. Very few inexpensive public golf courses in China that the middle class there can afford.  

 

Obviously with 1.4B people there is going to be people into the game, but it is still just a tiny fraction of the populations in China. The only way for golf to grow substantially in China is if the government embraces it more or just not blocks it and allows for cities to build municipal golf courses with low rates so people can play. Golf is a niche sport, but I see golf has the biggest potential for growth in Asia (especially China) right now. In Asia, they love golf, but many just are not able to play it.  

 

Since you are in China, you should check out the annual book "Golf Course Guide to China" published by Senasia Publications based in HK. I have the 2015-2016 version. No other China golf course book comes close. They list detailed information for 400+ golf courses in China. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

For “Home grown” Chinese golfers having an impact, it’s really a question of if golf takes hold as a passion and pass time of the middle/upper middle classes. Just because those classes grow and gain the income, does not necessarily translate to the multi-generational, nation-wide focus for a society to develop top competitive talent in a sport.

 

Appreciate the feedback!  Personally I don't see golf becoming a mass sport in China.  The land usage and issue of access is too much to overcome.  China essentially has the same landmass as the US, but 5x the population.  In addition, most of that population is disproportionately located around the eastern side of the country... I'm just happy that I can still "practice" my hobby here, even though it's quite expensive and always have to plan ahead to get a round in.  But... it keeps me sane here... 

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4 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

 

Since you are in China, you should check out the annual book "Golf Course Guide to China" published by Senasia Publications based in HK. I have the 2015-2016 version. No other China golf course book comes close. They list detailed information for 400+ golf courses in China. 

 

 

Thanks, I'll try to find the book!  I think there's only around 350 courses in China now...................

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On 10/21/2021 at 12:43 PM, Socrates said:

Sheer numbers of people driven to succeed.  I'll guarantee you that Asians don't get any Gold Medals for participation.  Success is the only valued result.  Anything less is a failure on many levels.  The downside of that is the mental toll it takes on those athletes.

 

If you get a chance, just look at the finalists for Augusta National's 2022  Drive, Chip and Putt.

It's coming and it'll be sooner than later.

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On 10/21/2021 at 2:45 PM, Ole3wiggle said:

I would argue that Golf isn't a very popular girls sport in the USA/other countries. They have basketball, soccer, volleyball, etc here that I would say are leaps and bounds more popular than golf. Even competitive cheerleading is a more common thing. In Asia do girls have any other sports as big as golf at the moment? I'm not sure, simply asking but I assume golf is up there with anything else they may play. 


The country club dad w/ a daughter was an interesting comment above. Could also hold some weight. 

 

This.  It's the same reason Americans don't do well in other popular global sports like Cricket, Soccer, Rugby, etc.  Our best athletes are focused other sports.

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