Terrible money game/skin rule

[larrybud]

Was talking with a buddy and he was mildly complaining about a rule in their league. They play Net and Gross skins at the same time. Net skins are off the low man (low man gets 0 shots) which he happens to be.

 

He makes an eagle one day, wins a gross skin, and is told that "if you win a gross skin, you cannot win the net skin on the same hole" even though all players are entered into both games. So your net skin just doesn't "count", as if it never happened.

 

I think I was more mad than he, because after thinking about it for a minute, I told him "That means there's NO MATHEMATICAL WAY" you can EVER win a net skin since he's the low man in the field, because the only way he would ever have the low net score on a hole is if he also had the lowest gross score on the hole!

 

[nsxguy]

17 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Was talking with a buddy and he was mildly complaining about a rule in their league. They play Net and Gross skins at the same time. Net skins are off the low man (low man gets 0 shots) which he happens to be.

 

He makes an eagle one day, wins a gross skin, and is told that "if you win a gross skin, you cannot win the net skin on the same hole" even though all players are entered into both games. So your net skin just doesn't "count", as if it never happened.

 

I think I was more mad than he, because after thinking about it for a minute, I told him "That means there's NO MATHEMATICAL WAY" you can EVER win a net skin since he's the low man in the field, because the only way he would ever have the low net score on a hole is if he also had the lowest gross score on the hole!

 

 

We only play a net skins game within a quota game but everyone gets only HALF their strokes.

 

Your buddy's game should have optional net and/or gross. Of course, if he's the low man by quite a bit nobody (else) will go into the gross.

 

But, as currently constructed, you are correct. He's "forced" to pay into a game he cannot win. I would certainly object to it.

 

[larrybud]

Our Sunday group does "half strokes" but not "half of their strokes" for net skins.  For example, if you're a 9, you get 9 "1/2 strokes". Keeps those gross birdies alive (unless someone is > 18 and normally getting 2 full strokes). 

Works great for a larger group, and "Net 3.5" on a par 4 certainly wins skins each week.

[puttnforthe8]

Yup...you are right...not much more to say.  That 'rule' is total garbage!!  

 

In addition, if it is a league, it should not be off of low - your group is good...it should be half strokes so that a true birdie is not cut by a net birdie.  Or another way is skins are based on 50% of hc.  

 

But you should ALWAYS get both.  Otherwise the low hcs should just stop entering net.

[2bGood]

Yes silly rule. If it is big field net skins should be off the card, not the low man.

 

Having said that you buddy would have a significantly better chance at gross skins than most of the field, so I bet at the end of the season he still comes out on top. 

[denkea]

9 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Yes silly rule. If it is big field net skins should be off the card, not the low man.

 

Having said that you buddy would have a significantly better chance at gross skins than most of the field, so I bet at the end of the season he still comes out on top. 

Not sure it matters if it's off the low man or off the card.

 

If I'm a 0 hdcp and you are an 18 I would get no strokes and you eighteen.  

 

Play gross beats net and there's no issue. 

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, denkea said:

Not sure it matters if it's off the low man or off the card.

 

If I'm a 0 hdcp and you are an 18 I would get no strokes and you eighteen.  

 

Play gross beats net and there's no issue. 

 

Sure there is.

 

You've just taken the higher handicapper's strokes away.

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, denkea said:

Not sure it matters if it's off the low man or off the card.

 

If I'm a 0 hdcp and you are an 18 I would get no strokes and you eighteen.  

 

Play gross beats net and there's no issue. 

Why would any 18 want to play in that game? You have to accept that there is a reason someone is an 18 and you can't expect them to play a 0 straight up. Even in a skins game. 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by 2bGood

[slocagolfer]

In our net and gross skins game if you win both you get two skins on that hole. Just gross or just net - one skin. We also play off the low cap. Usually we have between 6 and 10 players. 

[2bGood]

30 minutes ago, slocagolfer said:

In our net and gross skins game if you win both you get two skins on that hole. Just gross or just net - one skin. We also play off the low cap. Usually we have between 6 and 10 players. 

I think we are talking league here - so much more players - our league has typically 160 each week. 

 

For small field off the low many makes sense though. 

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I think we are talking league here - so much more players - our league has typically 160 each week. 

 

For small field off the low many makes sense though. 

Typically 40 groups?  Or a very crowded shotgun?  40 groups takes over 5 hours to tee off.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Shilgy

[2bGood]

56 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Typically 40 groups?  Or a very crowded shotgun?  40 groups takes over 5 hours to tee off.

Correct over 40 groups - some times more sometimes less typically we run it from 10am-4pm. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by 2bGood

[Mudguard]

Should skins ever be played with handicaps off the low player IE, lowest go to zero? Skins isn't matchplay, it's net par.

I also don't think net and gross skins makes much sense either. Say you have a one and a fifteen handicapper involved, it's plausible that the one could win the net and the gross, but the fifteen is unlikely to ever win the gross, so they're only playing for half the prize. 

 

[Shilgy]

42 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

Correct over 40 groups - some times more sometimes less typically we run it from 10am-4pm. 

Weekday at a private?

[2bGood]

43 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Weekday at a private?

yes

[b.mattay]

That rule is ridic! 

 

Another dumb rule: having to "verify" a skin with a net par or better on the next hole...as a plus handicap...when the course rates par 3's as the 15th-18th handicap holes😂. Sucks having to deuce a par 3 right after you make an eagle/birdie to hold onto a skin. 

[Valtiel]

11 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Sure there is.

 

You've just taken the higher handicapper's strokes away.

Lol exactly. You basically can't play these things as a low single digit or scratch player because oh look, the 25hdc shot a 90! I sure hope you shot a personal best by 5 strokes and/or the course record to beat him! 💩

[MountainKing]

This is why I stopped playing in handicap games.   Beyond sandbagers, as a low cap, the guys with the higher caps will set dumb rules to keep you from winning.  

[nsxguy]

15 hours ago, Mudguard said:

Should skins ever be played with handicaps off the low player IE, lowest go to zero? Skins isn't matchplay, it's net par.

I also don't think net and gross skins makes much sense either. Say you have a one and a fifteen handicapper involved, it's plausible that the one could win the net and the gross, but the fifteen is unlikely to ever win the gross, so they're only playing for half the prize. 

 

 

This is true if it's a skins game only. But I don't see many high cappers playing in that game.

 

If the skins are in a comp that offers gross and net prizes for score, the higher cappers, not having much chance at a gross skin, is somewhat offset by his better chance at winning a net prize.

 

My old club had gross and net (score) prizes every day but only 1, sometimes 2 gross prizes were awarded.

 

Due to the number of low vs. high handicappers there were usually twice as many net prizes awarded. And nobody could win more than 1 of them.

[Aaronwilson_95]

Imagine running a competition , where you limit who can win and how much you can win. Seems to me like trophy generation problems.

[Jvoom30]

this is really not fair so if the high handicap guy makes a rare eagle he can't win the net skin either?? if the gross score was an eagle and the best net score is the same eagle then you won both.

 

My course doesn't have any rule like that and ppl wouldn't agree to it either. 

[bladehunter]

Lol. Yep. I was asked to play on a game like that recently.  After listening to the description twice I said “ nah.  I’ll just be in the gross skins for half “.  They refused that.  It was pay into both or nothing.  So I bucked again and said I’m just out then.  I played with them and didn’t participate in the game.  During the round one idiot brings it up.  I explained it like this.  “ you have any sisters ? Or younger fragile brothers ?” He’s  like yep. Two sisters younger than me “ 

 

I said.  This is one of those times when your parents made you “ play nice “ with them.   Which means don’t beat them at whatever game .  Don’t hit them and make them scream and most of all - make them feel like they won. I’m grown up. I don’t have to do that now unless I choose to.  He said nothing else to me about it.  Lol.  I’m still shocked that people expect folks to play a game like that.  

[Aaronwilson_95]

I’m fine with net skins if gross birdie trumps . But that being said that is Bs above where the low skin doesn’t win gross and net cuz you can’t win twice !

[StudentGolfer4]

I know we are specifically talking skins so not quite the same but...

 

The high end country clubs around me with good players only allow you to win net or gross during a competition. Not both. Example, 2 handicap getting 5 based on course rating shoots an even par 72. If 72 is the low gross and 67 is low net you don’t win both prizes. You win the one that is worth the most money. 

[Golferpaul]

On 10/23/2021 at 6:14 AM, denkea said:

 

 

Play gross beats net and there's no issue. 

Unless you are the 18 capper.

[denkea]

Just now, Golferpaul said:

Unless you are the 18 capper.

Why?  You will get a stroke holes that low cappers won't get.  I play in a Saturday game with 16 to 20 guys.  Caps from 2 to 17.  The 17 has gotten more skins over time than me a 8capper.  

Gross beats net always.  

[golfortennis]

On 10/26/2021 at 1:27 PM, bladehunter said:

Lol. Yep. I was asked to play on a game like that recently.  After listening to the description twice I said “ nah.  I’ll just be in the gross skins for half “.  They refused that.  It was pay into both or nothing.  So I bucked again and said I’m just out then.  I played with them and didn’t participate in the game.  During the round one idiot brings it up.  I explained it like this.  “ you have any sisters ? Or younger fragile brothers ?” He’s  like yep. Two sisters younger than me “ 

 

I said.  This is one of those times when your parents made you “ play nice “ with them.   Which means don’t beat them at whatever game .  Don’t hit them and make them scream and most of all - make them feel like they won. I’m grown up. I don’t have to do that now unless I choose to.  He said nothing else to me about it.  Lol.  I’m still shocked that people expect folks to play a game like that.  

 

Blade, I just love the way you just cut through the bs on that guy.

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, denkea said:

Why?  You will get a stroke holes that low cappers won't get.  I play in a Saturday game with 16 to 20 guys.  Caps from 2 to 17.  The 17 has gotten more skins over time than me a 8capper.  

Gross beats net always.  

There are people that have run the numbers on it and gross beats net favours the low cap. Pure net favours the high caps. (all off the low man in groups under 30)

 

As a result there are few modified skins games. One is net skins with real birdies trumping net birdies. This is statistically pretty fair to all. The other is half points for strokes. This slightly favours low caps still and also has the effect of more skins being paid out. 

[Shilgy]

On 10/26/2021 at 10:27 AM, bladehunter said:

Lol. Yep. I was asked to play on a game like that recently.  After listening to the description twice I said “ nah.  I’ll just be in the gross skins for half “.  They refused that.  It was pay into both or nothing.  So I bucked again and said I’m just out then.  I played with them and didn’t participate in the game.  During the round one idiot brings it up.  I explained it like this.  “ you have any sisters ? Or younger fragile brothers ?” He’s  like yep. Two sisters younger than me “ 

 

I said.  This is one of those times when your parents made you “ play nice “ with them.   Which means don’t beat them at whatever game .  Don’t hit them and make them scream and most of all - make them feel like they won. I’m grown up. I don’t have to do that now unless I choose to.  He said nothing else to me about it.  Lol.  I’m still shocked that people expect folks to play a game like that.  

Easier for you to win a net than the high guy to win a gross.

 

 

Just sayin’.  And I’m nearly in your boat.

[bladehunter]

12 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Easier for you to win a net than the high guy to win a gross.

 

 

Just sayin’.  And I’m nearly in your boat.

Right.  But if they don’t let the low guy win in gross skins , then why enter ? 
 

I prefer it played this way. All skins net.  And a gross birdie or eagle cancels a net one. So real birdie or eagle beats a net birdie or eagle. Net or gross par is a wash.  
 

I don’t care what anyone says. Net birdies aren’t rare for high single digit guys. They absolutely clean up in net skins.