How Many Championships Would Bernhard have Won without the Broomstick?

[gvogel]

I realize that Herr Longer won a Masters putting with a regular putter, holding the top of the grip against his left arm (the original armlock?), but could he have continued to be successful with that method?

 

He seems to have been very successful with the "almost" anchoring to the chest method.

 

Discuss, if you wish.

[golfandfishing]

I think players like Langer would have won the same amount putting with crooked tree branches, broken table legs or the latest Scotty Cameron. He was going to win because of his will, effort and determination. The various methods and equipment he used was a way to commit to something that he could practice and repeat consistently. There was nothing magic about the putter or the technique, it was the repeated effort and commitment that brought him success. 

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, golfandfishing said:

I think players like Langer would have won the same amount putting with crooked tree branches, broken table legs or the latest Scotty Cameron. He was going to win because of his will, effort and determination. The various methods and equipment he used was a way to commit to something that he could practice and repeat consistently. There was nothing magic about the putter or the technique, it was the repeated effort and commitment that brought him success. 

Yep. I think that’s it.  It about soothing the mind during practice.  Or Tricking it into believing in the “ help “.  And I’m not one who really believes in help at a high level. 
 

kind of like Adam Scott. I’ve studied his stroke with a normal putter from early days. He’s as good as anybody.  He just doesn’t believe it. He’d have won just as much. If he believes it and practiced it. 
 

I’d flip it around and wonder if he might not have won more if he’d putted with a toe down blade , to match that set of hogan blades he used for so long.  
 

I think sometimes a crutch is detrimental to development is what I mean.  

[NevinW]

Bernard Langer's putting stroke yips were so bad at one point that he was written up as a case report in a German neurology journal when he was young.  I doubt he would have done as well as he has without the broomstick.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by NevinW

[Creedo77]

Still anchoring it to this day 

[mat562]

In 1988 on the 17th green at Royal Lytham, a 13 year-old me watched Langer 5-putt from a yard on a green that was essentially flat.

 

However he's done it - and he came back and won many tournaments, including a second Masters, using a regular putter before going to the broomhandle and later hoovering up titles for fun as a senior - it's remarkable.

[robbbennett58]

Not sure, he turned pro at 15 so I’m sure his dedication and self realization of what he’s capable of as opposed to a his physical talents was compartmentalized psychologically and rationally… I have been using a 48” broomstick legally for the last 5 yrs just because it’s easier for me to start my ball on my intended line, as a righty whose right eye dominant from a more upright position I tend not to open up my shoulders as I glance back and forth at the hole before I pull the trigger… So honestly, who knows.. one thing guaranteed is he’s probably one of the greatest 50+ ( age) players to ever live… Great question and I’m sure it’s been kicked around by every pro on earth especially when he’s constantly making the cut and finishing relatively high at Augusta…The guys CHARACTER speaks volumes IMO.. legendary

Edited October 23, 2021 by robbbennett58

[TwistedSister]

1 hour ago, Creedo77 said:

Still anchoring it to this day 

Those playing the closest to him would disagree with you!

[robbbennett58]

Essentially an arm lock putter is a form of anchoring… which I’m pretty sure Langer tried something along those lines with a standard length putter some 20+ yrs or so

[KBong]

1 hour ago, Creedo77 said:

Still anchoring it to this day 

Tru Dat!🤣

[caniac6]

Since he has used the long putter, it’s really a moot point.

[kasting333]

More than Adam Scott

[golfandfishing]

3 hours ago, NevinW said:

Bernard Langer's putting stroke yips were so bad at one point that he was written up as a case report in a German neurology journal when he was young.  I doubt he would have done as well as he as without the broomstick.  

He won 2 Masters without one……

[m d g]

5 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

I think players like Langer would have won the same amount putting with crooked tree branches, broken table legs or the latest Scotty Cameron. He was going to win because of his will, effort and determination.

This is incorrect. There is a reason he switched. It is because he'd be a terrible putter using all of the implements you mentioned.

 

And he knew it.

 

Golf tournaments aren't won by 'will, effort, and determination.' Those things are great, but I have all of those qualities...maybe more so than Langer (who knows?). 

 

But I won't be winning major tournaments any time soon : )

[bladehunter]

3 minutes ago, m d g said:

This is incorrect. There is a reason he switched. It is because he'd be a terrible putter using all of the implements you mentioned.

 

And he knew it.

 

Golf tournaments aren't won by 'will, effort, and determination.' Those things are great, but I have all of those qualities...maybe more so than Langer (who knows?). 

 

But I won't be winning major tournaments any time soon : )

So they’re won by clubs ?  
 

I know that sounds snarky.  But there’s no other way to bring it up.   It’s not the club.  It’s his mental belief in that club.  He could putt with anything.  He just doesn’t believe that he can.  He believes that he needs that long putter.  Yips are real. I’ve had them with driver. No driver fixed it.  I had to mentally overcome it .  Done so by forcing myself to let go and accept embarrassment for the short term , so that long term i could get over it.  Langer is eat up with eye hand coordination.  No reason on earth why he can’t putt.  Except that he believes that he can’t.  I point this advice at myself by the way.  I’m guilty of the same thing sometimes. We all are.  Armlock - broomstick etc.  are not the fix.  It’s just a mental trick.  

[m d g]

23 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

So they’re won by clubs ?  

They are won by skill. 

 

Langer has great skill at the game of golf in almost all areas, but before he switched to the long putter, his putting was not very good. Yes, he still won, but it was a painful process.

 

He switched for a reason; he thought he'd have a BETTER chance of winning with a different putter/putting style.

 

By anchoring (when it was legal), he changed his stroke entirely. It may have been partly mental, but it was also 100% a different physical stroke.

 

If he thought he could win by the sheer force of his determination alone, there would have been no need to switch.

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, Creedo77 said:

Still anchoring it to this day 

This always confuses me. How do you know? 

[golfandfishing]

18 minutes ago, m d g said:

They are won by skill. 

 

Langer has great skill at the game of golf in almost all areas, but before he switched to the long putter, his putting was not very good. Yes, he still won, but it was a painful process.

 

He switched for a reason; he thought he'd have a BETTER chance of winning with a different putter/putting style.

 

By anchoring (when it was legal), he changed his stroke entirely. It may have been partly mental, but it was also 100% a different physical stroke.

 

If he thought he could win by the sheer force of his determination alone, there would have been no need to switch.

He won using a variety of vastly different techniques. I’d say he put in countless hours of effort and was determined to find a method that he could commit to. The various iterations of arm lock then again various iterations of the long putter prove that his commitment to improving are the keys to his success. If the long putter somehow did not exist he would have found something else, the lack of a long putter would not have relegated him to an office job. 

[TwistedSister]

3 hours ago, KBong said:

Tru Dat!🤣

Not TRUE DAT!!  When did you play with him last?

[TwistedSister]

36 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

This always confuses me. How do you know? 

They don't... if he was those playing against would be saying more than they are!!  These are armchair idiots!

[bscinstnct]

46 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

He won using a variety of vastly different techniques. I’d say he put in countless hours of effort and was determined to find a method that he could commit to. The various iterations of arm lock then again various iterations of the long putter prove that his commitment to improving are the keys to his success. If the long putter somehow did not exist he would have found something else, the lack of a long putter would not have relegated him to an office job. 

 

BL be like

 

 

[Creedo77]

47 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

They don't... if he was those playing against would be saying more than they are!!  These are armchair idiots!

Coverage never goes close up on his stroke. 
 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Creedo77

[TwistedSister]

1 minute ago, Creedo77 said:

Coverage never goes close up on his stroke. 
 

No but the other two guys playing against him are close enough to see.!!!!

[Creedo77]

1 minute ago, dhacker56 said:

No but the other two guys playing against him are close enough to see.!!!!

Eh, not quite. But I don’t even care about this, it’s the armlock that’s needs to go and will be at some point in the future 

[Valtiel]

@Creedo77 Using this logic then, everyone cheats when marking their ball because they don't show close ups of them doing it. Everyone cheats and improves their lie because they rarely show the player soleing the club behind the ball. Everyone cheats in the bunker because we don't see it close enough to know they are NOT touching the sand. You can't take the absence of evidence and flip that around to prove anything. 

And to be clear, I think all these longer/locking/whatever putters should go as well, the USGA in classic fashion botched a simple rule change. That doesn't mean these people are cheating though, and saying with any certainty that he has been anchoring the whole time is silly. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Valtiel

[TwistedSister]

3 minutes ago, Creedo77 said:

Eh, not quite. But I don’t even care about this, it’s the armlock that’s needs to go and will be at some point in the future 

What do you mean not quite?  Those guys are not playing for chump change.  they have a vested interest. And it would appear you do care since you are the one that started this ball rolling. 

[TwistedSister]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

Using this logic then, everyone cheats when marking their ball because they don't show close ups of them doing it. Everyone cheats and improves their lie because they rarely show the player soleing the club behind the ball. Everyone cheats in the bunker because we don't see it close enough to know they are NOT touching the sand. You can't take the absence of evidence and flip that around to prove anything. 

I thought we all played this game with integrity?  Are you saying he is guilty until you can show he is not?  Shows me you slant on things!

[Valtiel]

1 minute ago, dhacker56 said:

I thought we all played this game with integrity?  Are you saying he is guilty until you can show he is not?  Shows me you slant on things!

No i'm implying that is what Creedo is saying, unless you meant to quote him and not me. 

[TwistedSister]

3 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

No i'm implying that is what Creedo is saying, unless you meant to quote him and not me. 

Then you should have quoted him not me?   BTW

All the major ruling bodies have stepped in.

Just for the arm chair i...ts

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/why-is-bernhard-langer-guilty-until-proven-innocent-jaime-diaz-anchoring

 

[Valtiel]

13 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

Then you should have quoted him not me?   BTW

All the major ruling bodies have stepped in.

Just for the arm chair i...ts

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/why-is-bernhard-langer-guilty-until-proven-innocent-jaime-diaz-anchoring

 

Oh whoops, my bad hah, editing.